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Purdyd
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Quote: Originally posted by JZ  | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I suggest that masks be optional on planes, busses and trains. And we should do like old days when smoking was allowed on planes, put the maskless in
the back of the plane and put the masked in the front of the plane. Train cars can be separated for masked and maskless. Busses can be made for
masked, and we can provide free rental scooter credits for unmasked. I see lots of rental scooters on street here in san Diego, and you maskless
should use those and let the masked ride the bus in good health. |
Why do you hate science?
"A 187-page study by Harvard scientists released Tuesday concluded that air travel "is as safe as or substantially safer than the routine activities
people undertake during these times.''
The Harvard researchers said the ventilation system in the cabin "effectively counters the proximity travelers are subject to during flights.''
It says those factors combine to reduce the risk of COVID-19 transmission on a plane to below that at grocery stores or restaurants."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/10/2...
[Edited on 4-19-2022 by JZ] |
Actually what the report says is
| Quote: | The Finding: This research substantiates that the layered approach of Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPI) instituted on commercial aircraft
- effectively diluting and removing pathogens and in combination with face masks - results in a very low risk of SARS-COV-2 disease
transmission on aircraft. |
| Quote: | b. Face Masks
Finding
Face masks without exhalation valves or vents or other openings are a critical element in preventing the spread of respiratory infectious diseases
while traveling. In fact, face mask requirements are perhaps the most essential layer of a comprehensive set of measures to reduce transmission of
COVID-19 throughout air travel. |
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by Purdyd]
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by Purdyd]
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by Purdyd]
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 17299
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Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I suggest that masks be optional on planes, busses and trains. And we should do like old days when smoking was allowed on planes, put the maskless in
the back of the plane and put the masked in the front of the plane. Train cars can be separated for masked and maskless. Busses can be made for
masked, and we can provide free rental scooter credits for unmasked. I see lots of rental scooters on street here in san Diego, and you maskless
should use those and let the masked ride the bus in good health. |
Why do you hate science?
"A 187-page study by Harvard scientists released Tuesday concluded that air travel "is as safe as or substantially safer than the routine activities
people undertake during these times.''
The Harvard researchers said the ventilation system in the cabin "effectively counters the proximity travelers are subject to during flights.''
It says those factors combine to reduce the risk of COVID-19 transmission on a plane to below that at grocery stores or restaurants."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/10/2...
[Edited on 4-19-2022 by JZ] |
Airliners have poor ventilation during boarding and deplaning. The high filtration is only during flight. Also, good filters/air flow really don’t
do much when you are packed in like a sardine next to a sicko….
Plane Filtration may protect you from some sicko sitting 10 rows away, but does little to protect you when your mouth/nose is 18 inches from some
sicko exhaling covid, flu, cold, etc.
I am all for mask requirement to be permanent requirement as long as airlines insist on inhumane seat spacing and packed planes.
Don’t get me started on fat people flying without buying extra seat!
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JZ
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Filtration systems on planes make sitting a foot away from someone the equivalent of 15 feet away in normal settings. They studied stuff like this.
Mask were never worn while eating or drinking. So all you had to do was keeping snacking on some peanuts to avoid wearing it. Did Covid magically
stop then?
Remind us of the number of outbreaks associated with airline travel the last two years?
We took a bunch flights in 2020 pre-vaccines. No Covid.
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by JZ]
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Purdyd
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | Filtration systems on planes make sitting a foot away from someone the equivalent of 15 feet away in normal settings. They studied stuff like this.
Mask were never worn while eating or drinking. So all you had to do was keeping snacking on some peanuts to avoid wearing it. Did Covid magically
stop then?
Remind us of the number of outbreaks associated with airline travel the last two years?
We took a bunch flights in 2020 pre-vaccines. No Covid.
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by JZ] |
From the same USA article you linked
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/10/2...
| Quote: | Troubling outbreak: Ireland flight linked to 59 COVID-19 cases
Despite the industry's bullishness, a new report from Irish public health officials suggests coronavirus spread on planes remains a threat.
A report published late last week in the journal of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, a European Union health agency, said 13 of
49 passengers on a 7½-hour flight to Dublin, including a child, tested positive for COVID-19, and another 46 in contact with them in Ireland became
infected. Four were hospitalized, one in the ICU. |
The phase I airline industry report
https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2443/2...
| Quote: | | Boeing then used these reductions in exposure to convert their CFD-derived finding as “equivalent physical distance” asserting that due to the
features of their aircraft ECS design, potentially infectious particles released under realistic scenarios will be rapidly diluted and removed from
the proximity of passengers to provide the equivalent distance of being >6 feet (1.83 m) away from an adjacent passenger.
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| Quote: | 7.3 RECOMMENDATIONS FOR PROPER USE OF FACE MASKS DURING AIR TRAVEL
In summary, face masks offer an important line of protection against the spread of SARS-CoV-2 by reducing potentially infectious exhaled respiratory
particles from the wearer as well as providing some barrier protection against inhaled particles. However, it is the proper use of a face mask that
confers it effectiveness. The protective value of the face mask decreases significantly when the wearer’s mouth or nose are not completely covered
because it is no longer functioning as a barrier for respiratory particles (Van der Sande et al., 2008; Konda et al., 2020; Davies et al., 2013). For
these reasons, face mask compliance and correct use are critical while on board the aircraft.
Additionally, passengers and crew should make every effort to ensure that their masks fit comfortably and without gaps in order to maximize their
effectiveness as a barrier to viral spread (Konda et al., 2020; Mueller et al., 2020). Masks should be cleaned regularly in accord with the CDC
recommendation (CDC, 2020f). |
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by Purdyd]
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by Purdyd]
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | Filtration systems on planes make sitting a foot away from someone the equivalent of 15 feet away in normal settings. They studied stuff like this.
Mask were never worn while eating or drinking. So all you had to do was keeping snacking on some peanuts to avoid wearing it. Did Covid magically
stop then?
Remind us of the number of outbreaks associated with airline travel the last two years?
We took a bunch flights in 2020 pre-vaccines. No Covid.
[Edited on 4-20-2022 by JZ] |
Got a citation on that equivalent to 15 feet apart Jizzy - you know - because we all want to make sure we are accurately representing scientific
studies here.
and BTW - its not so much on the plane - its the jetways getting onto , and deplaning - when the systems are turned off - believe it or not, you
could get infected then - honest!
1 million dead in the USA - 17 Million dead world wide - and those are clearly gross undercounts - and your still spouting about having to wear a
mask - not because of the mask - its all about your political agenda. when human lifes start mattering more to you that your political beliefs -
then we can have a discussion based on facts and science. until then - keep on inventing BS, ignoring science - it's a very good tool to assess
your IQ
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RFClark
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CAJ13,
The “Science” is that a large percentage of the virtue signaling masks worn in public were and still are about 15% effective! If you aren’t
wearing an N or P 95 mask that fits tightly you are kidding yourself!
If you only wear a mask when cameras are present you’re a hypocrite or worse!
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | CAJ13,
The “Science” is that a large percentage of the virtue signaling masks worn in public were and still are about 15% effective! If you aren’t
wearing an N or P 95 mask that fits tightly you are kidding yourself!
If you only wear a mask when cameras are present you’re a hypocrite or worse! |
got a citation on that?
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by caj13 | | Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | CAJ13,
The “Science” is that a large percentage of the virtue signaling masks worn in public were and still are about 15% effective! If you aren’t
wearing an N or P 95 mask that fits tightly you are kidding yourself!
If you only wear a mask when cameras are present you’re a hypocrite or worse! |
got a citation on that? |
Doctors from the NIH have said cloth masks do very little. Surgical masks are better, if worn properly and you avoid touching your face. N95 are
very good if they fit well. Tons of sources saying this.
It's also well know that a lot of it is for show. There have been hundreds of photos of politicians saying to wear a mask and then doing the exact
opposite in private.
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RFClark
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caj13,
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
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Alm
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Their efficiency for cloth and surgicals is much higher than what I read before, but the study looks solid.
What is not clear is the odds ratio or in other words - protection, in the indoor environment where you're wearing a mask but, say, 80% of people
around you aren't. And this is exactly what today's airplanes are. With N95 you'll get only 0.17 of exposure than they will, but we'll never know -
0.17 of what. Unmasked people in enclosed space increase your risk anyway.
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RFClark
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Alm,
If you read the study it goes on to say that the benefits of cloth masks are not statistically significant.
Pressurized aircraft generally don't recirculate air, they replace it with fresh outside air. This rate of replacement is adjustable. More often is
better but uses more fuel! AC cabins have always been unhealthy!
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | Alm,
If you read the study it goes on to say that the benefits of cloth masks are not statistically significant.
Pressurized aircraft generally don't recirculate air, they replace it with fresh outside air. |
Statistically not significant but the odds ratio is 44%, can't discard this completely. Still, indoors I would prefer N95 to cloth mask or a
surgical. Both my dentists - in Canada and Mexico - were wearing N95 last time I saw them. I really appreciated them doing it, but oh boy, must've
been tough wearing it all day long. Lucky are those who don't have to work with people today.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm | | I really appreciated them doing it, but oh boy, must've been tough wearing it all day long. Lucky are those who don't have to work with people
today. |
Honestly, it's something one gets used to if it fits well. I have gotten so used to wearing a mask when going to indoor public places that unless the
weather is hot, I sometimes forget I am wearing it when I get back in my car after shopping, and will drive a block before becoming aware of it and
removing it (the sort of thing anti-maskers seize on to prove how crazy mask-wearers are, as if we are terrified of driving alone in our own vehicles
without a mask on, which no one is).
What was way worse for doctors and nurses and ambulance staff was having to suit up with the whole 9 yards of PPE when dealing with Covid cases-
masks, face shields, hazmat suits, gloves, booties. and then having to remove it all without causing any cross-contamination.
[Edited on 5-18-2022 by surabi]
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RFClark
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Alm,
At the beginning of this epidemic the CDC deliberately tried to infect a group of volunteers. Only 50% of those infected caught covid! The other 50%
caught nothing!
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Skipjack Joe
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Well that proves everything.
Like that damn palm tree DK brings up.
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
Honestly, it's something one gets used to if it fits well. I have gotten so used to wearing a mask when going to indoor public places that unless the
weather is hot, I sometimes forget I am wearing it |
Did you mean N95? To me it is way less comfortable than a surgical mask. Those "cupped" like 3M 8510/8511 with a foam strip around feel a little
better, but I don't think I could forget that I'm wearing it, even when it's not hot.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm |
Did you mean N95? To me it is way less comfortable than a surgical mask. Those "cupped" like 3M 8510/8511 with a foam strip around feel a little
better, but I don't think I could forget that I'm wearing it, even when it's not hot. |
No . I'm a seamstress and made myself a bunch of cloth masks when the pandemic first reared its ugly head. People poo-poo "cloth" masks, but "cloth"
is a generic term that can mean all kinds of things. Certainly a cotton bandana provides little to no protection, but other types of cloth masks do.
Mine are an outside layer of tightly woven cotton with an inner layer of double-woven black-out fabric. If I pour water into them, as I did when
testing the fabric before I made them, it just sits there and only drains through really slowly. They fit well with no gaps, they are soft, not stiff,
and I carry a bunch of them with me in my car, so if I have to go into a bunch of places on a trip into town, I can switch out to clean ones. Then I
just wash them. Or sometimes leave them on the dashboard of my car in the baking hot sun.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
Pic from one of those flights. Guess she didn't trust the hepa filters?
[Edited on 5-18-2022 by JZ] |
Maybe she was like my friend who suited up far more than that to take an unavoidable flight. She had gone through breast cancer, a double mastectomy,
then colon cancer. Multiple chemo treatments and radiation. Not exactly Miss Strong Immune System, and no, she wasn't going to trust the airline
filtration system.
Maybe you should mind your own business and stop judging the actions of others whose lives you know nothing about.
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surabi
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That's your response to pointing out that poking fun at someone who may be going through cancer treatments for all you know, it is quite rude?
What a vile POS you are.
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Lee
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
That's your response to pointing out that poking fun at someone who may be going through cancer treatments for all you know, it is quite rude?
What a vile POS you are. |
You got his number. BINGO!
I use to react (inwardly, not outwardly) at someone driving by windows up, mask on, thinking WTF!!!! Posted that thought couple years ago.
Now I think prob something going on and I don't know what it is.
Like I keep saying, who cares? It's nobody's business except the person wearing the mask.
It's easy to poke fun of people when personal politics appear front and center. That's the conservative and Republican crowd who followed the
former Loser and Draft Dodger from the WH who said it's an individual's choice, freedom first, and covid was more like a case of flu and not to be
taken seriously.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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