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Alm
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 05:15 PM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
“Alabama man dies of cardiac event after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away”

Since antivaxxers are cause of full icus, can antivaxxers be held responsible for deaths caused by full icus?

Hypothetically, it wouldn't be illogical or immoral to put some burden on them. In insurance business there is a rule - you must try to mitigate losses or your claim may be denied. This group are not trying to mitigate, not using available vaccines and many of them (not all) are likely to ignore other protection measures. There is also something in Criminal Code about infecting others with STD when you knew that you were sick, as I recall.

Many unvaccinated are simply hesitating, confused and overwhelmed with the cr-ap they hear around, unable to separate facts from myths. Some have recovered from Covid already, they typically have a better immunity than after the vaccine, though vaccine could still boost their antibodies. This latter group is usually excluded from vaccination requirement where there is such a requirement.
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 06:05 PM


Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Is there anybody reading this message that is refusing to be vaccinated?

Just curious who you are.


Not vaccinated here. Mostly healthy family, didn't feel that the risk of the virus was worth any other actions. I also don't typically get flu shots. However, me, my wife, our kids are vaccinated otherwise.

I just completed my 10 day quarantine after contracting COVID. Contracted the virus during a vacation isolated on a houseboat with 8 other fully-vaccinated, unmasked super-spreaders. JK... had to throw that jab in there. :)

I had minor symptoms (headache, fatigue,etc), family had none, despite me not really even isolating from them. I'm ready to go run a marathon. Actually, who am I kidding.. I wouldn't run before COVID. ;)

I'm fine with my decision.
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SFandH
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 06:26 PM


There is the cost issue. I've read that the cost of the vaccine is $10 and the average cost of COVID hospitalization is $20,000 but this number really hasn't been nailed down yet.

Going into an ICU costs a fortune.

What is it? 90% or so of hospitalized patients are unvaccinated?




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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 06:55 PM





[Edited on 9-12-2021 by surabi]

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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 07:27 PM


All of the medical guidance says you should get the vaccine even if you already had covid.

Covid has huge risk for older populations, the vaccine much less so. Get the jab!




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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 07:45 PM


Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting...

"After people recover from infection with a virus, the immune system retains a memory of it. Immune cells and proteins that circulate in the body can recognize and kill the pathogen if it’s encountered again, protecting against disease and reducing illness severity.

This long-term immune protection involves several components. Antibodies—proteins that circulate in the blood—recognize foreign substances like viruses and neutralize them. Different types of T cells help recognize and kill pathogens. B cells make new antibodies when the body needs them."
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 08:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting...

"After people recover from infection with a virus, the immune system retains a memory of it. Immune cells and proteins that circulate in the body can recognize and kill the pathogen if it’s encountered again, protecting against disease and reducing illness severity.

This long-term immune protection involves several components. Antibodies—proteins that circulate in the blood—recognize foreign substances like viruses and neutralize them. Different types of T cells help recognize and kill pathogens. B cells make new antibodies when the body needs them."


Oldkid:

Here is a better link from NIH:

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

“More importantly, the data provide further documentation that those who’ve had and recovered from a COVID-19 infection still stand to benefit from getting vaccinated.”




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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 08:20 PM


The vaccination is free. However, I did receive a Medicare invoice showing a $40 charge by CVS with 100% paid. Probably various fees and payments out there. I just heard last week that hospitals were going to START charging for covid hospitalizations - that is, charging insurance companies. Prior to that, covered by Federal emergency funding. Also read today that there was $11 billion unspent federal American Rescue funds that will now be distributed to hospitals and clinics - prioritizing the smaller ones. I will not read nor trust any data that the government disseminates. How could anyone possibly trust this current regime?
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 08:22 PM


Quote:
Quote:
A little more recent paper

Study Suggests Lasting Immunity After COVID-19, With a Big Boost From Vaccination

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139

After an infection with SARS-CoV-2, most people—even those with mild infections—appear to have some protection against the virus for at least a year, a recent follow-up study of recovered patients published in Nature suggests. What’s more, this and other research demonstrates that vaccinating these individuals substantially enhances their immune response and confers strong resistance against variants of concern, including the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant.


Quote:
Unvaccinated health care workers appeared to have less protection against the delta and beta variants compared with alpha about a year after they recovered from mild COVID-19. While 88% of this group had neutralizing antibodies against alpha, only 47% neutralized delta.


Quote:
Nussenzweig said an open question is how long immunity lasts after vaccination alone. One recent study found that at least 12 weeks after their second dose of Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine, people who were not previously infected had a surprisingly high number of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein–targeting B cells in the germinal centers of their lymph nodes, where these cells are trained to produce and perfect antibodies. Some of the antibodies generated from the B cells cross-reacted with seasonal betacoronaviruses or bound to unique regions of the virus’s spike protein, the scientists reported in Nature.








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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 08:25 PM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
All of the medical guidance says you should get the vaccine even if you already had covid.

Covid has huge risk for older populations, the vaccine much less so. Get the jab!


Not really "all the medical guidance". The highly esteemed Dr. Fauci says it's a point of discussion that we don't yet know the answer for.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/09/10/fauci_natu...

Also, good thing I don't hang around old people.
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[*] posted on 9-11-2021 at 08:32 PM


Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by aburruss  
...isolated on a houseboat with 8 other fully-vaccinated, unmasked super-spreaders.

You happen to know who you caught it from and if others in that group got infected?

I'm convinced there are a lot more breakthrough infections going on than is announced, but don't have a handle on how contagious they are.


I don't specifically know WHERE I got it. However.. Symptoms after 8 days around literally no one else. 12 days if you count a single trip to the grocery store.

I personally know of 5 people who got covid, and got hit pretty hard.. MONTHS after being fully vaccinated. To be fair, I also know two older (late 50's) unvaccinated people who got COVID, and spent time in the hospital with pneumonia. I also know a 94 year old who got it, and was out in her garden in 110 degree weather the next day. I also know a 35 year old who got vaccinated, and now his arm is magnetic. Apparently, your mileage may vary.

I don't think there is a a one-size-fits-all answer for this. Get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated... your health, your situation, your surroundings, your level of risk tolerance .... all should dictate this.
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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 08:08 AM


Bottom line is he’s going to get harder and harder for the unvaccinated to stay unvaccinated due to mandates and society pressure. This truth is got to be stressful for the anti-VAXers
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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 08:09 AM


There is a discussion of time element that Dr. Fauci made. I assume one must consider when the recovery occurred.

It does beg the question why previous infection and recovery isn’t considered as good as vaccinations and at the very least why two shots would be needed.

After all proof of recovery from covid is enough to skip the testing requirement for returning from international destinations by air.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/testing-...



https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/acd/date/2021-09-09/segment...

Quote:
[20:10:14]

GUPTA: You know, when it comes to the mandates through the Department of Labor and companies that have a hundred or more employees, my understanding of what the President was saying, Dr. Fauci, was that either you get a vaccine, or you have to be tested regularly. And oftentimes, it seems like these two things are commingled, like, do one or the other.

But in one case, you're preventing it, and in the other case, you're diagnosing it. Why not just do the vaccine mandate and not say that the testing can be sort of this off ramp?

FAUCI: Well, I think the President is, you know, being somewhat moderate in his demand, if you want to call it that. And that there are some people who really don't want to get vaccinated, but they don't want to lose their job, you've got to give them an off lane. And the off lane is if you get tested frequently enough, and find out you're positive, you won't come to work, and you won't infect other people. So, it really is somewhat of a compromise there.

Myself, I would make it just vaccinate or not. But he was trying to be moderate in what his pronouncement was.

GUPTA: And just real quickly, there was a study that came out of Israel about natural immunity, and basically, the headline was that natural immunity provides a lot of protection, even better than the vaccines alone.

What do people make of that? So as we talk about vaccine mandates, I get calls all the time, people say, I've already had COVID, I'm protected. And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone. Should they also get the vaccine? How do you make the case to them?

FAUCI: You know, that's a really good point, Sanjay. I don't have a really firm answer for you on that. That's something that we're going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing that paper from Israel didn't tell you is whether or not

as high as the protection is with natural infection, what's the durability compared to the durability of a vaccine? So it is conceivable that you got infected, you're protected, but you may not be protected for an indefinite period of time.

So, I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously, because you very appropriately pointed out, it is an issue, and there could be an argument for saying what you said.


Link to the paper from Israel.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

Note a relatively small sample of those age >60 because they tried to compare exact numbers of populations and I assume most were vaccinated.

The recovered numbers don’t, obviously include those who died so the weakest might have been...

Still very encouraging news that natural immunity is very effective. Very positive for Mexico.




[Edited on 9-12-2021 by Purdyd]

[Edited on 9-12-2021 by Purdyd]
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SFandH
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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 08:34 AM


Perhaps there are degrees of infection and subsequent antibody production. I would assume so, but I don't know. Some people get a mild case where they have inhaled a small amount of the virus and some people get dangerously sick and need hospitalization because they are heavily infected.

A small infection vs. a massive infection.

Perhaps a vaccination on top of naturally produced antibodies is the safest way to go for those who have been sick with COVID and have recovered. That is what I would do.

[Edited on 9-12-2021 by SFandH]




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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 08:37 AM


Not sure where you get your news, everywhere in the news I see legal pushback to experimental vaccines, mandates, passports etc.

USPS won't take vaccines, CDC doesn't require it, Pfizer doesn't require it, Portugal says there is no evidence of covid and ended all mandates, just like Alberta, UK says no vaccine mandate or passports, Denmark says there is no pandemic and therefore no restrictions or mandates.

There are more vaccine injuries in the last year than in the entire history of vaccine injury reporting through CDC VAERS.


Red Cross will only accept blood donations from unvaccinated for convalescent plasma

Red Cross encourages recovered COVID-19 patients to give plasma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-YEB3qE4ns

CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of...

Most Covid patients in East Lancashire hospital had jab, says council leader
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/19/stop-blaming-v...

Covid outbreak among vaccinated Vegas hospital workers underscores Delta risks
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/13/coronavirus-...

"Many new Covid-19 cases are among vaccinated people"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-05/israel-se...
Last Friday, 55% of the newly infected had been vaccinated, the website said."

Study: Fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" COVID Delta infections carry as much virus as the unvaccinated
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-delta-variant-inf...


[Edited on 9-12-2021 by gnukid]
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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 08:41 AM


IMO the fact that over 90% of hospitalized COVID patients are unvaccinated trumps all objections to the vaccines.



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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 09:44 AM


Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Not sure where you get your news, everywhere in the news I see legal pushback to experimental vaccines, mandates, passports etc.

USPS won't take vaccines, CDC doesn't require it, Pfizer doesn't require it, Portugal says there is no evidence of covid and ended all mandates, just like Alberta, UK says no vaccine mandate or passports, Denmark says there is no pandemic and therefore no restrictions or mandates.

[Edited on 9-12-2021 by gnukid]


Who cares? US should have mandatory vaccine. Period.

Mandatory masks in schools. Period.

You are out of touch, Paul, and won't ask where you get your news. Your conspiracy theories make my head spin. You have no creditability here.

Take responsibility for your words. And those who follow your advice and end up sick. Any remorse?




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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 12:17 PM


Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  
Not sure where you get your news, everywhere in the news I see legal pushback to experimental vaccines, mandates, passports etc.

USPS won't take vaccines, CDC doesn't require it, Pfizer doesn't require it, Portugal says there is no evidence of covid and ended all mandates, just like Alberta, UK says no vaccine mandate or passports, Denmark says there is no pandemic and therefore no restrictions or mandates.

There are more vaccine injuries in the last year than in the entire history of vaccine injury reporting through CDC VAERS.


Red Cross will only accept blood donations from unvaccinated for convalescent plasma

Red Cross encourages recovered COVID-19 patients to give plasma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-YEB3qE4ns

CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of...

Most Covid patients in East Lancashire hospital had jab, says council leader
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/19/stop-blaming-v...

Covid outbreak among vaccinated Vegas hospital workers underscores Delta risks
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/13/coronavirus-...

"Many new Covid-19 cases are among vaccinated people"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-05/israel-se...
Last Friday, 55% of the newly infected had been vaccinated, the website said."

Study: Fully vaccinated people with "breakthrough" COVID Delta infections carry as much virus as the unvaccinated
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-delta-variant-inf...


[Edited on 9-12-2021 by gnukid]


I hope it doesn’t come as a shock as more people are vaccinated there will be more cases of vaccinated people testing positive, in the hospital, etc.

In fact if 100% of the population were vaccinated 100% of the cases, deaths etc. would be of vaccinated people.

I have now idea what you are talking about with Denmark. They say it is under control in that country not that the pandemic is not real.

https://fortune.com/2021/08/30/denmark-to-scrap-all-corotnav...

And with 74% of the total population full vaccinated they are probably right, for Denmark.

And your other stuff isn’t true either about the cdc and Pfizer.

Especially now.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/v...


USPS is also under the mandate

https://nypost.com/2021/09/09/usps-exempt-from-biden-vax-man...


But just to be clear, there is a test option within this mandate,

You can see doctor Fauci talks about it in the transcript from CNN.

I’m guessing if the USA had a vaccinations rate like the UK we might not have a mandate either.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=GBR

[Edited on 9-12-2021 by Purdyd]

[Edited on 9-12-2021 by Purdyd]
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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 03:06 PM


What's becoming clear is that the non-vaxers who contracted covid and survived are convinced that they did the right thing and will continue to not get vaccinated. The non-vaxers that die or come close to dying are the only ones that change their minds about vaccination. They do, however, during the process of dying convince a handful of close family and friends to get vaccinated.

Yes, mandates are the way to go to turn this boat around. The public will not do it on their own.
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[*] posted on 9-12-2021 at 03:27 PM


Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by aburruss  
I also know a 35 year old who got vaccinated, and now his arm is magnetic
Just when I was starting to think you're credible... :lol:


It's crazy.. i have the full video, but don't want to share without permission. It's super weird!!!!

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