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BajaNomad
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'The vaccine candidate produced neutralizing antibodies, which scientists believe is important for building immunity against the virus, in all 45
patients tested in the trial, Moderna scientists reported Tuesday night in the New England Journal of Medicine. Additionally, the antibodies that were
produced were higher than those seen in people who have recovered from Covid-19.'
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/moderna-stock-surges-after-r...
'CNBC’s Jim Cramer said Wednesday that he wants to see the insider stock sales activity at Moderna before deciding how confident to be about the
vaccine data the drug company released on Tuesday night.'
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/cramer-says-he-wants-to-see-...
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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RFClark
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“ If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”
– Bishop Desmond Tutu
Even CNN’s Jake Tapper and Dr. San Jay Gupta spoke out against Governor Cuomo, finally! 32,000 dead in NY. @TheLeadCNN
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Alm
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Antibodies don't necessarily make you immune. A reliable proof would've been a clinical trial with participants deliberately infected - on humans,
not on anuimals or in vitro. A blindfold study where a half is given a vaccine and the other half a placebo.
When I look at the deaths for the last few months https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ - the period July 7 through July 15 is similar to the period of June 7-15, either one is
higher than the period in between. In other words, it's trending up at the moment.
Also consider that deaths have approximately 1 month lag from the date when a person was infected to the date when his death is added to statistics
(if he dies).
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RFClark
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Consider that a lot of the current hospital admissions aren’t presenting until they are gravely ill and that the hospital stay lengths are about 1/2
what they were a few months ago.
Also consider that the best way to remove politics from Virus Deaths is to track the deaths from all causes in the US which is released each Wednesday
by the CDC. If the number of deaths raises above the historical predicted average than more people are dying and one way or another it’s probably
attributable to the Virus. Examine that chart as it's very interesting. Yes it could go up in coming weeks but on average 55K to 65K Americans die
each week, more in winter less in summer. The total deaths went up in April/May when NY and NJ were killing off there Nursing Home patients. Since
that peak it’s been falling.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Hospital admissions due to lab tested virus admissions are also tracked. The data lags by about 2 weeks but so far no sharp rise in admissions either.
It is interesting to note that admissions are about 6X higher than the average for the 65+ age group.
https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html
The 30K person trial will probably answer you concerns! Followed by most getting vaccinated except for the anti-vaxxers of all political sorts!
If you think that this isn’t political you aren’t paying attention!
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Skipjack Joe
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"This means the test cannot distinguish covid from a cold or measles or ebola"
This doesn't make sense to me. PCR is essentially a fast method of gene sequencing. While it is true that the gene sequence of a live RNA is the same
as a non-infective RNA the gene sequence of each type of virus is unique. So how can you confuse the covid virus gene sequence with that of the flu?
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RFClark
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Nope, it’s Fake News or politics!
Below is a fact check website with the complete story.
https://factcheck.afp.com/sites/default/files/styles/list_xl...
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gnukid
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You don't need a fact check to prove or disprove, you can simply go to CDC or FDA and pull the instructions and guidelines for CDC 2019-Novel
Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel go to the page noting Limitations which I recall is pg 37-38 https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download
Also, its not clear why it's so important to disprove something that is clearly stated by CDC and FDA and widely known in the public domain? Why is RF
Clark and the Admin on BN and Ron on Talk Baja so invested in hiding this well known fact? Thats suspicious and odd?
If you follow the link, RF Clark posted it is super simplistic and says something entirely different, which may or may not b true, since there is no
source, no study, no peer review etc. It states that multiple tests are given until th patient tests negative twice, which supports the admission by
CDC that they reported cumulative tests, also conflating PCR and Serology tests for a single person, so, one person could be tested everyday for two
weeks or more until twice testing negative, and all those were conflated in addition to not being at all accurate.
[Edited on 7-17-2020 by gnukid]
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SFandH
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Better yet, here's the real document. It doesn't contain the last two parts of gnukid's apparently fake image.
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020...
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gnukid
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I provided the link to the FDA AND CDC or simply search for it yourself, you slippery sleuths can research your way out a paper bag?
Go to Page 37-38 or read the entire document if you are interested.
CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel
https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download
Deborah Birx herself states she has no confidence in the testing numbers, it could be false positive or false negative.
https://www.businessinsider.com/deborah-birx-cdc-comments-co...
Birx tests are not accurate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdN--11btc0
In addition to tests been inaccurate, reporting of the results is conflated, conflating all respiratory illness as covid, HHS , the parent of CDC
repeatedly petitioned for corrections, after a long long time with continued problems with the burden of reporting, HHS worked together with CDC to
update the methodology to improve the quality of data. Here is the announcement from HHS, a government agency which is parent to CDC. https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/07/15/prepared-remarks-f...
[Edited on 7-17-2020 by gnukid]
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RFClark
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Sorry that was the wrong link.
https://factcheck.afp.com/misleading-claim-circulates-about-...
Here’s the complete story!
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gnukid
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RF Clark, you a are great investigator, could you search for the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel and read the
limitations and tell us what is says? Thanks buddy!
[Edited on 7-17-2020 by gnukid]
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elgatoloco
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https://factcheck.afp.com/trump-makes-false-claims-about-cov...
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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RFClark
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“ I provided the link to the FDA AND CDC or simply search for it yourself, you slippery sleuths couldn't research your way out a paper bag.
Go to Page 37-38 or read the entire document if you are interested.
CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel”
I was in the Medical business when they started developing rapid tests and understand their limits. The FDA instructions say nothing about false
positive issues with other Viruses!
Below is what the Australian Department of Health said about gunkid’s email. The Aussies aren’t electing a president where one of the parties
require a disaster to win! I tend to believe them as they are generally competent regarding things medical.
“ In an email to AFP on June 29, a Department of Health spokesperson said: “The social media post contains selectively chosen information taken
out of context from the Department of Health factsheet for Clinicians, along with complete inaccuracies.
“In Australia, the benchmark test to diagnose acute COVID-19 infection is called a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test. This test is very sensitive
and detects tiny fragments of genetic information that are specific to the virus that causes COVID-19. The factsheet is actually dealing with COVID-19
positive people continuing to test positive after the infectious period has passed. It is true that the PCR may still result in a positive test,
because of remaining non-infectious viral load within the patient.”
The spokesperson stressed the PCR test for COVID-19 is designed specifically for SARS-CoV-2: “Real time reverse-transcriptase polymerase chain
reaction (qRT-PCR) for SARS-COV-2 is specific to SARS-COV-2 and will reliably detect SARS-COV-2 RNA whether the virus is viable or not. The specific
test for SARS-COV-2 will not detect other pathogens. Specific tests for other pathogens will not detect SARS-COV-2.”
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RFClark
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The US tests more people each day than any other country! The President is correct!
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/international-comparison
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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Well chit fire howdy! That is newsworthy!
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Bajazly
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The US has done the second most tests in the world but is still number 23 in per capita so not "more than anybody in the world" as some numbnutz likes
to parrot.
Believing is religion - Knowing is science
Harald Pietschmann
"Get off the beaten path and memories, friends and new techniques are developed"
Bajazly, August 2019
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gnukid
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Clearly, RF you have a misunderstanding and are providing misinformation.
The FDA and CDC guidelines linked and provided here, state on pg 37-38 under Limitations:
https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download
Detection of viral RNA may not indicate the presence of infectious virus or that 2019-nCoV is the causative agent for clinical symptoms.
This test cannot rule out diseases caused by other bacterial or viral pathogens.
Birx explains that the PCR test generates false positives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdN--11btc0
[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]
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RFClark
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The issue you raised with your original post was that other virus RNA would cause false positives, read what you posted. The Australians say that’s
not true and the FDA doesn’t mention false positives by other virus RNA at all! This test is 2019-nCoV specific. Because of virus fragments some
patients continue to test positive after they no longer have clinical symptoms!
Your 1st arrow means that the test can’t distinguish between whole active 2019-nCoV and inactive fragments of the same virus. That said the test
results will be viewed in a clinical setting. If you hear hooves and your not in Africa Zebras shouldn’t be your first thought! That’s first year
Med stuff,
Your 2nd arrow means that the test won’t show positive or negative for anything else!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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The Diagnostic Limitations note that the PCR Covid19 Diagnostic is unable to differentiate any pathogen, it's a signature for RNA virus, could be
anything.
I appreciate that you are trying your best to sound authoritative, as though that is persuasive, but appeal to authority has no logical weight. You
provide no evidence or data to counter what the guidelines state.
In addition I provided a link to Deborah Birx confirming that the RT PCR CoV Diagnostic generates False Positives and she has zero confidence in the
reported results. Though certainly you could evaluate a person and identify symptoms if they existed and together tests and symptoms could add weight
to diagnosis as positive for flu like illness.
Additionally, the serology tests that tests for Antibodies certainly can vary in quality, and type, qualitative or quantitative. The highest quality
quantitative tests show how many covid19 antibodies and provide a reference number showing a value above a limit.
EXCEPT, even serology testing can show false positives and can not determine if the antibodies are specific to a recent Covid19 infection or from
similar corona virus infection such as common cold.
Read the CDC Covid19 Serology testing guidelines
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-o...
"A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive
result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that
causes the common cold."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01u8Pi9mzcs
[Edited on 7-18-2020 by gnukid]
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caj13
Senior Nomad
Posts: 998
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Gnukid,
I don't even know where to start with you. The websites you cite are right wing blogs, with less than a hundred views of the stories you linked too,
and they were all complete misuse, misunderstandings of what Dr. Blix was saying, on top of a complete lack of understanding of the medical
profession, research, and basic fact!
You apparently have no idea what this PCR test is, and what its for. You routinely mis-state and misrepresent information PRESUMABLY because you do
not have the capacity , knowledge, education or experience to understand the scientific method, or medicine, or medical diagnosis, or infectious
disease - etc etc etc.
Your personal agenda , well we have seen that played out here in the USA, and guess what, it's killing people, lots of people. This is not a
political issue - its a public health issue. Your politics are getting people killed - make sure you understand that and own it - it belongs to
you and numerous other individuals willing to allow people to needlessly die, because of your willful ignorance and political leanings -
congratulations!
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