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caj13
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Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver  | | Quote: Originally posted by caj13 | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | That report only talks about its use to prevent Covid-19, NOT how it has been helping people recover from it.
The details matter! |
I'm Glad you feel that way David - so here's a bunch of details examining all of the research done so far - I'll let you read it and report back
what the details say about the efficacy of hydroxy - either as a prophylactic preventative, or as a cure.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-hyd...
we will all wait patiently for your response David, after you read and understand the details, please let us know if we should be using hydroxy to
"cure Covid"
[Edited on 8-3-2020 by caj13] |
Isn’t the internet wonderful? It has the clueless sheep buying into and quoting their latest favorite “expert” spouting their latest scientific
findings from the latest poll on the undisputed truth about climate change, medical findings, favorite politician, etc. etc.
Before Al Gore invented the internet, how in the world was anyone able to make an intelligent decision before consulting their favorite Politician or
Scientist? |
well we used to spend a lot of time reading peer reviewed Journals. Now we can get those over the internet, some subscription, some free. we have
access to a much broader spectrum of peer reviews journals than we used to have in the past. Additionally the internet gives us instant access. In
the old days we would have to trudge over to the research library, look up stuff in the science citation index, and get the journals we needed from
the library, and make a copy of the paper we wanted, so we could put it into our personal collections. - unless the library didn't have that
specific journal subscription. In that case we would have to wait a week or 2 for it to come in under interspecific library loan. Now, its almost
instant, and broad spectrum, we have access to so much more information, so much quicker. BUT, you have to rely on your education and training to
allow you to make valid assessments of claims made in the papers!
So in assement: notice the link I posted - thats a review article, it looks at numerous studies, not just one or 2. and if the authors think a
study has weaknesses - they point those out specifically. see thats review, scientists putting their work out there for review by other qualified
individuals. sometimes the original authors get it right, often they get it wrong, thats why we have peer review!
The unfortunate side of the internet is under educated individuals who have no idea about science, how its done, statistical analysis, fact
checking, broad background knowledge, knowledge of other studies etc think that whatever they see on the internet is true if it aligns with their
personal beliefs, or is fake news if it's contrary to their beliefs.
everyone's entitled to their opinions, but
scientists try and justify their beliefs and ideas with data, reviewed research, and knowledge of mechanisms and past histories! They should
provide a logical argument, and framework of their posts, backed up by peer reviewed science and data.
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SunDevil
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Indian slum contained a possible COVID-19 disaster with hydroxychloroquine
Indian doctors used hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for prophylaxis (preventive) treatment — the same drug the American media have politicized.
Officials have credited this turnaround to "[a] combination of hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D, and zinc tablets along with homeopathic medicines."
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/this-indian-slum-contai...
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pacificobob
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that website is an interesting one . it also endorsed trumps Nigerian demon semen doctor. see the petition section.....
[Edited on 8-4-2020 by pacificobob]
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Bajazly
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob |
that website is an interesting one . it also endorsed trumps Nigerian demon semen doctor. see the petition section.....
[Edited on 8-4-2020 by pacificobob] |
Anything from the American Thinker needs to be taken with a big ole sack of salt as well.
Believing is religion - Knowing is science
Harald Pietschmann
"Get off the beaten path and memories, friends and new techniques are developed"
Bajazly, August 2019
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caj13
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Heres the real story, turns out it was stupid stuff like quarantine and contact tracing, Hdroxy had nothing to do with it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/how-a-pack...
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-06-24/dharav...
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SunDevil
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Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
FDA Delays on HCQ Outpatient Approval Are Causing Deaths Daily
On July, 1 Henry Ford Hospital physicians and researchers in Detroit filed an urgent request to FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn for a new outpatient
Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for FDA approval of HCQ to be used in early treatment for COVID-19.
Baylor Scott & White Heart and Vascular Institute in Dallas, issued an urgent appeal supporting the Henry Ford EUA application, based on their
clinical study of prophylactic use of HCQ in their own medical workers.
Baylor cardiologists emphasized there were no adverse cardiac outcomes in their own or the Ford study.
Henry Ford’s new clinical trial found an impressive 51% reduction in deaths if HCQ was begun within 24 hours of admission to hospital.
An outpatient primary care study by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, using HCQ, azithromycin and zinc given within less than 7 days of COVID-19 symptoms, showed
approximately 80% decrease in deaths, and less than 1% of his patients needed to be admitted to hospital.
If the FDA had acted quickly on the Henry Ford and Baylor approval request for HCQ, we can reasonably consider that 16,000 lives could have been saved
since July 1.
https://aapsonline.org/fda-delays-on-hcq-outpatient-approval...
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by SunDevil | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
FDA Delays on HCQ Outpatient Approval Are Causing Deaths Daily
On July, 1 Henry Ford Hospital physicians and researchers in Detroit filed an urgent request to FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn for a new outpatient
Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for FDA approval of HCQ to be used in early treatment for COVID-19.
Baylor Scott & White Heart and Vascular Institute in Dallas, issued an urgent appeal supporting the Henry Ford EUA application, based on their
clinical study of prophylactic use of HCQ in their own medical workers.
Baylor cardiologists emphasized there were no adverse cardiac outcomes in their own or the Ford study.
Henry Ford’s new clinical trial found an impressive 51% reduction in deaths if HCQ was begun within 24 hours of admission to hospital.
An outpatient primary care study by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, using HCQ, azithromycin and zinc given within less than 7 days of COVID-19 symptoms, showed
approximately 80% decrease in deaths, and less than 1% of his patients needed to be admitted to hospital.
If the FDA had acted quickly on the Henry Ford and Baylor approval request for HCQ, we can reasonably consider that 16,000 lives could have been saved
since July 1.
https://aapsonline.org/fda-delays-on-hcq-outpatient-approval... |
There is nothing preventing doctors from prescribing the medication.
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SunDevil
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The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the
medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine.
On Wednesday, the Ohio Board of Pharmacy approved regulations to prohibit pharmacies, clinics and other medical institutions from dispensing or
selling the drug. The new rules were to take effect Thursday.
DeWine issued a statement Thursday morning asking the pharmacy board to halt the new rules in order to review evidence from experts and accept
comments on the proposal.
“I agree with the statement from Dr. Steven Hahn, Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, that the decision about prescribing
hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 should be between a doctor and a patient," DeWine said. "The Board of Pharmacy and the State Medical Board of
Ohio should revisit the issue, listen to the best medical science, and open the process up for comment and testimony from experts."
The board withdrew the rule later on Thursday, citing feedback received by the medical and patient community.
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydrox...
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SFandH
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The rule to prohibit it was withdrawn the day after it was suggested.
Can you find any place in the United States where doctors are prohibited from prescribing it and pharmacies are prohibited from dispensing it?
From the article linked to above:
"I agree with the statement from Dr. Steven Hahn, Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, that the decision about prescribing
hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 should be between a doctor and a patient,"
[Edited on 8-4-2020 by SFandH]
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BajaTed
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CBD & THC, its a good thing.
What say you?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilyearlenbaugh/2020/07/06/can...
Es Todo Bueno
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Don Pisto
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Mood: weary like everyone else
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hey it can't hurt! while you're at it add curcumin....I swear by that stuff
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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pacificobob
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working great for me so far.
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caj13
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For those of you all excited about the henry ford "study". Other than being - well non scientific" at best. Their study - was not a study - it
was observational. turns out thats not how we do science.
To quote Steven Nissen a long time clinical trialist from the Cleveland clinic, and Luciano Borio, who was the FDA chief scientist from 2017-2019.
"observational studies simply cannot be used to determine whether a medicine is effective. Again and again they have been wrong. In one famous
example, estrogen replacement therapy after menopause was thought to have benefits in preventing heart and other problems; large studies showed this
was not the case. In another, a knee surgery for arthritis was shown to have no benefits over medical care.
A paper that showed that hydroxychloroquine was potentially harmful, which was published in The Lancet in May, was met with similar criticism. It was
eventually withdrawn over questions about the validity of its data.
Observational studies are often used to decide what ideas to test in randomized studies, to make sure that results from randomized studies translate
to the real world, and to detect side effects. "
Science - It's science man - and science matters. just because you don't understand or disagree with science - that doesn't make the science wrong
- it just shines a light on your willingness to do phenomenal mental gymnastics to try and discredit the facts and information. "
You got a problem with science, the solution is simple - - lets see your data, lets see your experimental design, lets see your statistical
analysis, lets see your educational background, lets see your professional experience!
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MrBillM
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Effective (and economical) prophylaxis
Since the standard is empirical ..................
My preferred daily preventative application of Stella Artois (12-24 oz.) supplemented by complimentary (1-2 oz.) booster
shots of Jensens has been equally effective at preventing any contagion.
Depending on one's prescription plan, the above COVID medication regime @ $2-3 daily may well provide an equally effective, but more economical (and
certainly more pleasant) treatment.
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Stickers
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| Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | Since the standard is empirical ..................
My preferred daily preventative application of Stella Artois (12-24 oz.) supplemented by complimentary (1-2 oz.) booster
shots of Jensens has been equally effective at preventing any contagion.
Depending on one's prescription plan, the above COVID medication regime @ $2-3 daily may well provide an equally effective, but more economical (and
certainly more pleasant) treatment. |
Oh no!
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pauldavidmena
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| Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | Since the standard is empirical ..................
My preferred daily preventative application of Stella Artois (12-24 oz.) supplemented by complimentary (1-2 oz.) booster
shots of Jensens has been equally effective at preventing any contagion.
Depending on one's prescription plan, the above COVID medication regime @ $2-3 daily may well provide an equally effective, but more economical (and
certainly more pleasant) treatment. |
I can confirm that DrBillM's prescription is very effective when applied under quarantine conditions, and much less so when administered at a crowded
bar.
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AKgringo
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An interesting article about T-cells
Here is a link to a New York Times article about possible Covid19 resistance that some people may have;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-coronavirus-is-...
It could shed light on why my county has had such a minimal medical problem, despite having such a large retired population! There were a lot of sick
people here in fall of 2019 (including me) but I don't know anyone, who even knows anyone, that has Covid19 now.
One of my contacts that that had the same flue(?) at the same time as me recently got tested for Covid antibodies, and was negative. I doubt that
there was any way to test for T-cells.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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paranewbi
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There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections. There are 14 global studies that show neutral or
negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect. Of
the remaining four studies, two come from the same University of Minnesota author. The other two are from the faulty Brazil paper, which should be
retracted, and the fake Lancet paper, which was.
Millions of people are taking or have taken hydroxychloroquine in nations that have managed to get their national pandemic under some degree of
control. Two recent, large, early-use clinical trials have been conducted by the Henry Ford Health System and at Mount Sinai showing a 51% and 47%
lower mortality, respectively, in hospitalized patients given hydroxychloroquine. A recent study from Spain published on July 29, two days before
Margaret Sullivan’s strafing of “fringe doctors,” shows a 66% reduction in COVID mortality in patients taking hydroxychloroquine. No serious
side effects were reported in these studies and no epidemic of heartbeat abnormalities.
This is ground-shaking news. Why is it not being widely reported? Why is the American media trying to run the U.S. pandemic response with its own
misinformation?
(Steven Hatfill is a veteran virologist who helped establish the Rapid Hemorrhagic Fever Response Teams for the National Medical Disaster Unit in
Kenya, Africa. He is an adjunct assistant professor in two departments at the George Washington University Medical Center where he teaches mass
casualty medicine. He is principle author of the prophetic book “Three Seconds Until Midnight -- Preparing for the Next Pandemic,” published by
Amazon in 2019.)
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/04/an_eff...
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AKgringo
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Sacramento is ready for the pandemic!
The former home of the Sacramento Kings was converted to a field hospital to handle the overflow of patients from the area hospitals. It may have
seemed like a good idea a couple of months ago, but so far, it has treated nine patients at a cost of 12 million dollars!
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-06/californ...
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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MrBillM
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Treatment Options
I have spent the last two days in vigorous research attempting to determine whether there have been alternative treatments for COVID which would
account for the current severe shortage of Birdseed. Thus far, I haven't found any documentation that such is the case (even among
Nigerian Witch Doctors) and, in fact, I haven't encountered any articles indicating that there IS a shortage.
Perhaps, it's just a case of TP Redux, but it's not just a local phenomenon. Speaking earlier in the week to two other campers (one from
Indio and the other from Ontario) at the pool in Poppet Flats, they both remarked that their local outlets had run out.
I've had to put the birds at home and in Poppet Flats on short rations.
This COVID business is getting serious.
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