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SFandH
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Why? To prevent getting the infection or to lessen the severity if you get the infection?
[Edited on 7-26-2020 by SFandH]
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Alm
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To obtain a reliable proof that some drug prevents from getting sick with coronavirus, one - ideally - should run a trial where half the
patients are given the drug and half - a placebo, and then all of them are given a shot or a swab of coronovirus  .
To lessen the severity... I've seen as many articles stating that it does lessen it, as articles stating the opposite. Not surprisingly, nearly all
such studies were related to symptomatic patients, many - hospitalized. You really need to test everybody, to catch asymptomatic ones.
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SFandH
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Quote: Originally posted by Alm  | To obtain a reliable proof that some drug prevents from getting sick with coronavirus, one - ideally - should run a trial where half the
patients are given the drug and half - a placebo, and then all of them are given a shot or a swab of coronovirus .
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That is certainly unethical (do no harm) and probably illegal.
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Alm
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So they don't do it. Such trials are population studies, not really clinical, efficiency is estimated, not measured.
Vaccinated patients are compared to general population after several months to see if the difference is statistically significant. For results to be
conclusive, the gen pop must be up to their neck in infection, right now USA is a suitable environment. Some companies are planning testing in China,
UAE and Canada where virus circulation is lower. And long term side effects of the vaccine are not even a part of the study yet. Messy.
Edit-PS: These trials are for "real" vaccines, not HCQ. Of the top of my head, there is currently one big trial for HCQ as a preventive drug, run by
UK university out of Thailand. They will be giving it to healthcare workers and see what happens. British trial for HCQ as a treatment has failed to
show any benefit and they postponed this preventive trial, but now it's under way (I think).
[Edited on 7-26-2020 by Alm]
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by Alm | To obtain a reliable proof that some drug prevents from getting sick with coronavirus, one - ideally - should run a trial where half the
patients are given the drug and half - a placebo, and then all of them are given a shot or a swab of coronovirus .
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That is certainly unethical (do no harm) and probably illegal. |
https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+vaccine+volunteers&...
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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BajaNomad
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That would be the *next* big experiment, or one of them. Just sayin'.
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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BornFisher
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What do you get when you mix medicine with politics?
Answer---- 100% politics!!!
"When you catch a fish, you open the door of happiness."
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SFandH
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That's very different from what Alm described and I responded to.
[Edited on 7-26-2020 by SFandH]
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SunDevil
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Or maybe the”key” is social distancing and mandatory masking!
Its a funny world when common sense mask solution to airborne disease transmission is labeled a socialist anti-freedom commie conspiracy of george
soros and bill gates.
Truly, the right wing nuts (and pusa) are cookoo
[Edited on 7-25-2020 by mtgoat666] |
This thread is about treatment for someone that has contracted the coronavirus. Asking these people to wear a mask is like closing the barn door after
the horses are loose.
Maybe the best way to avoid dying from the coronavirus is to drop a few pounds, but that is a lot to ask of most people.
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SunDevil
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm | To obtain a reliable proof that some drug prevents from getting sick with coronavirus, one - ideally - should run a trial where half the
patients are given the drug and half - a placebo, and then all of them are given a shot or a swab of coronovirus .
To lessen the severity... I've seen as many articles stating that it does lessen it, as articles stating the opposite. Not surprisingly, nearly all
such studies were related to symptomatic patients, many - hospitalized. You really need to test everybody, to catch asymptomatic ones.
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Most doctors would argue that to subject half their sick patients to the placebo treatment, when there is something better, is not very helpful.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by SunDevil | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Or maybe the”key” is social distancing and mandatory masking!
Its a funny world when common sense mask solution to airborne disease transmission is labeled a socialist anti-freedom commie conspiracy of george
soros and bill gates.
Truly, the right wing nuts (and pusa) are cookoo
[Edited on 7-25-2020 by mtgoat666] |
This thread is about treatment for someone that has contracted the coronavirus. Asking these people to wear a mask is like closing the barn door after
the horses are loose.
Maybe the best way to avoid dying from the coronavirus is to drop a few pounds, but that is a lot to ask of most people. |
People with covid 19 are the people that should be wearing a mask!
This disease is beatable. Wear a mask and be socially distant. Insist that your government REQUIRE social distancing for those people too stupid to
practice social distancing on their own.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by SunDevil |
Most doctors would argue that to subject half their sick patients to the placebo treatment, when there is something better, is not very helpful.
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This has no relation to Phase 2-3 clinical trials using placebo. At this point there is no evidence yet that there is anything helpful.
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Alm
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Not really. Infected people should take steps to prevent spreading it. This is why most countries, including the USA, recommend isolation of positive
cases. Wearing a mask lowers the risk as well.
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BajaTed
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Find a way to get a minimal viral load and the anti-bodies & T-cells you create will make the virus null.
Basic approach since viruses were discovered.
Sharing blood plasma is most common method, but there is NO MONEY in plasma thus that approach won't be used.
Es Todo Bueno
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+vaccine+volunteers&tbm=nws[/rquote]
That's very different from what Alm described and I responded to.
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If you scroll down to proposed "human challenge trials", this would be what you responded/objected to - intentionally attempting to infect vaccinated
volunteers. What is holding it is the absence of "rescue drug" in case if vaccine doesn't work. They did it in the past with diseases where rescue
drug was available.
Other vaccine trials - those ethical ones - don't include intentional exposure, they rely on comparisons to general population that is supposedly
exposed.
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pacificobob
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was this research from trump university school of medicine? then republished in the baja nomad journal of medicine.
[Edited on 7-28-2020 by pacificobob]
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed | Find a way to get a minimal viral load and the anti-bodies & T-cells you create will make the virus null.
Basic approach since viruses were discovered.
Sharing blood plasma is most common method, but there is NO MONEY in plasma thus that approach won't be used. |
I wish it was that simple Ted. One of the big issues is how long those antibodies stick around in the body. unfortunately there is a growing body of
evidence that the antibodies in this case are quite short "lived" ie they disappear in relatively short time. We should not be surprised by that,
Corona virus antibodies for whatever reason seem to show that characteristic. Therefore no vaccines for colds, and natural immunity from a cold
lasts just a few weeks or months.
It now seems likely (to me, and this is only me making an educated guess, on limited data) that the vaccines they are developing will need to be
repeatedly administered - somewhat like we do with flu vaccines (but for different reasons obviously).
I can forsee that you will need proof of vaccination to enroll in schools, enter sporting events etc this is a whole new kind of threat to humans,
and we are the ones who will have to adapt. we will get this thing under control - using science.
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Terry28
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Just keep drinking the trump kool aid.....Darwin will win in the end....
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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MrBillM
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Sure Cure
Seeing again today DT pimping his " I took it and I don't have Covid" Hydroxy hypothesis, I realized that he may be
on to something.
Although I'm one of those in the most vulnerable groups, I've been taking mostly regular (12-24 oz. daily) doses of Stella
Artois and haven't contracted the virus so it's pretty obvious that is the answer.
Just to be sure, though, I'm trying to contact the Doc that DT is now promoting. The one who revealed that medical researchers are
experimenting with Alien DNA and working on a vaccine to prevent religiousity. Her medical confirmation would be invaluable.
Slainte !
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RFClark
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“ Real studies do exactly what ALM is talking about with half the patients, and SFndH, sounds confused.
Many people signed up for these studies knowing the risks, it's only unethical is you're doing it on black people without their knowledge like they
did a few decades back.”
So Troll, your “degree” is from the “Mengele School of Medicine” because most other places follow this rule!
“Clause 33 of the Declaration of Helsinki, states that, “The benefits, risks, burdens and effectiveness of a new intervention must be tested
against those of the best proven intervention(s).”{1} It goes on to stress that, “In any medical study, every patient should be assured of the
best proven diagnostic and therapeutic methods and no patient should suffer from unnecessary pain.”
Here is the URL to a recent, large, peer reviewed U.S. study that found Hydroxychloroquine reduced death in their patients by half!
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
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