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caj13
Senior Nomad
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funny observation: JZ read my post, had no answer for the pertinent questions, knew he could not answer without completely invalidating his rant,
so he goes to Halloween, once again either ignoring or being totally unaware of the reference - typical!
Hey JZ - how many of those automobile deaths would have been prevented had the victims been wearing seatbelts, and had front and side airbags, and
how many avoided if the vehicles had active avoidance systems. How many were related to alcohol?
See thats kind of like washing your hands and wearing a mask - and social distancing : doing the smart proven things required to minimize the risk to
yourself and others.
and BTW - Its not all about you. Everyone of the 40 million people infected caught the disease from someone else, often the infector did not even
know they were contagious - (see president superspreader for context)
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by caj13]
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by caj13]
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KurtG
Super Nomad
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Registered: 1-27-2004
Location: California Central Coast
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Mood: Press On Regardless!!
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | I read somewhere last week that the number of all deaths in America (so far) was less in 2020 than 2019, at the same point in time... I suppose
staying locked up indoors is safer than driving, working, sports, etc.
Trading freedom for safety... is that what we want to be doing?
I sure would rather die on a Baja adventure or doing something I choose to be doing than locked in my house waiting for Death to come get me in old
age! |
https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/excess-deaths-coronavi...
This article contradicts your 'read somewhere" report. Suggest that this whole article be read, sources seem good.
I also would like to be doing my usual Baja travels. This will be the first year since 1974 that I have not done so but because of age, I'm 76, I am
being cautious. That doesn't mean "being locked in my house." Outdoor activities are available to us here and we take advantage of them. We are
fortunate in that regard. Tomorrow I'm packing a lunch and motorcycling Hwy 1 to Big Sur, probably will not interact with anyone along the way.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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Location: Kamloops, BC
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Don't believe everything you think....
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KurtG
Super Nomad
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Location: California Central Coast
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Mood: Press On Regardless!!
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by KurtG | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | I read somewhere last week that the number of all deaths in America (so far) was less in 2020 than 2019, at the same point in time... I suppose
staying locked up indoors is safer than driving, working, sports, etc.
Trading freedom for safety... is that what we want to be doing?
I sure would rather die on a Baja adventure or doing something I choose to be doing than locked in my house waiting for Death to come get me in old
age! |
https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/excess-deaths-coronavi...
This article contradicts your 'read somewhere" report. Suggest that this whole article be read, sources seem good.
I also would like to be doing my usual Baja travels. This will be the first year since 1974 that I have not done so but because of age, I'm 76, I am
being cautious. That doesn't mean "being locked in my house." Outdoor activities are available to us here and we take advantage of them. We are
fortunate in that regard. Tomorrow I'm packing a lunch and motorcycling Hwy 1 to Big Sur, probably will not interact with anyone along the way.
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Kurt, that article is speaking about a prediction of 400,000 dead... a prediction. My source was talking about actual counts of deaths this year vs.
last year.
I side with facts over prediction... |
The very first paragraph gives current stats, not predictions:
"New research, published in the journal JAMA, tracking total all-cause death rates in the United States has found 20 percent more people have died in
2020 compared to prior year averages. And, even more strikingly, only two-thirds of those excess deaths this year can be directly attributed to
COVID-19".
Please provide a link to the article you are referencing. It would be interesting to compare sources, I feel JAMA is pretty reputable.
How did we go from a study of death statistics to Polar Bears and Palm trees?
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by KurtG]
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caj13
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How dare you confront David with actual facts and figures. Theres no way that can stand up to - I think I read somewhere ...
and David, you've been PROVEN wrong on anything you say about sea levels, perhaps its time to educate yourself, and leave your tired old ignorance
behind!
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bkbend
Senior Nomad
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Location: central OR or central baja
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Just the facts, Maam. Data, which are usually factual, can be manipulated into "statistics" to support pretty much whatever conclusion you would like
to have. I'm pretty sceptical of statistics being thrown around so I did a quick search for articles reporting more deaths and articles reporting
fewer deaths. for my own entertainment I wanted to see how the same numbers can be bent.
The following is from a statistics professor using CDC data.
https://theconversation.com/up-to-204-691-extra-deaths-in-th...
Here is a report saying it ain't so. It also uses CDC data.
https://gellerreport.com/2020/04/total-us-deaths.html/
Trick -- or -- treat???
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BajaMama
Super Nomad
Posts: 1106
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Location: Pleasanton/Punta Chivato
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Mood: Got Baja fever!!
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama |
Seriously peeps, all it takes is common sense to live the life you can and stay safe and keep others safe until this passes. Historically pandemics
take about 2 years, and that is w/o a vaccine. All this arguing is utterly stupid. Wash your effing hands, wear a mask, don't dine or drink indoors
unless you are under 40 and if your do stay away from the mature people in your life. Socially distance and enjoy those outdoor dining experiences.
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I agree with you 100%. That's what I've been saying for months.
You have missed the hundreds of posts from the Coronabro's telling us to stay home and it's too dangerous to even visit places like the seven sisters
where there aren't ppl around for 40 miles.
They have a very nefarious agenda. And now the WHO is telling them to shut up and they are losing their minds. Notice how they have attacked the
messenger endlessly, but not the substance of the message?
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by JZ] |
My husband and I have been camping, fly fishing, and wheeling in the sierras. These are all good, safe, socially distanced activities. We also bring
our own food just in case. Last night we enjoyed a birthday dinner with 2 other couples in an outdoor patio setting (we are all in same social
bubble). Life hasn't been what is was pre-pandemic but it is enough to have some fun while staying alive. We won't go to Mexico, but only because
the law says border is closed to non-essential travel and we choose to respect the law. But when it officially is open to non-essential travel I will
probably drive down with mi suegro to check on the house.
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BajaMama
Super Nomad
Posts: 1106
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Mood: Got Baja fever!!
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I reiterate - these arguments are pointless and silly.
My husband and I plan to sit on our porch on halloween with a PVC tube pointed down the porch stairs to shoot candy into kid's trick or treat bags (if
any show up). We will open bags with gloves on and keep gloves on to pick up and shoot candy. Wine will be involved and we will smile and chat with
(from a distance) every family that passes by. See, fun can be had
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KurtG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1201
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Location: California Central Coast
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Mood: Press On Regardless!!
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Thanks bkbend, nice to show that you can get a spin on any story to make it read as you like.
No matter what link I put up, the usually 'big-government knows best' crowd will dismiss it!
As for sea level, that is a fact that anyone who has been alive for any time can see from piers, boat launch ramps, rocks in the water, or homes on
the coast... the sea is not higher.
Don't like the palms in Baja as a benchmark?
How about down under? 
Drink some more OJ Kurt, and less Kool Aid! [just fun, okay?]
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by David K] |
David, I have never engaged in any climate discussion or said anything about my political views on this forum that I can recall. Never saw any point
in it. I have only asked for your sources so I can make up my own mind about credibility. I took a couple of college statistics courses so am well
aware of how they can be manipulated and how often they are misunderstood. As to the bears and palm trees I really didn't understand what they had to
do with current death statistics so I asked.
Again, I was only asking for your source of info.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9269
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama | I reiterate - these arguments are pointless and silly.
My husband and I plan to sit on our porch on halloween with a PVC tube pointed down the porch stairs to shoot candy into kid's trick or treat bags (if
any show up). We will open bags with gloves on and keep gloves on to pick up and shoot candy. Wine will be involved and we will smile and chat with
(from a distance) every family that passes by. See, fun can be had |
But how would you feel if the govt. told you your grand kids couldn't go trick or treating?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64491
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Location: San Diego County
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Sure thing, Kurt,
I am on Baja Nomad to help anyone to find a Baja adventure, to read others Baja adventures, and make new Baja amigos. You are one of those, to me.
I find MtGoat and others constant attempts to promote big government controls and solutions rather than personal freedom and opportunity for all or
just stay on Baja topics, a bit disappointing.
That said, when I interject into these non-Baja subjects, it is for entertainment and not intended to be carved in stone. Now, ask me about Baja
travel or history, and those answers are ones I do stand by until better answers are submitted.
Be well my friend.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
But how would you feel if the govt. told you your grand kids couldn't go trick or treating?
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I would .... and do feel good about following the advice of experts and applying it with common sense.
I understand that you don't...... que lastima.
Don't believe everything you think....
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
But how would you feel if the govt. told you your grand kids couldn't go trick or treating? |
If I was a young kid and my grandfather had just died recently of COVID, I would hope/beg everyone would listen to our (responsible and mature?)
elected leaders and health professionals. I would not want your father, or anyone else's grandfather put at risk unnecessarily. You can afford candy
for your two kids, right?
Happy Halloween!
John
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by John Harper]
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
I find MtGoat and others constant attempts to promote big government controls and solutions rather than personal freedom and opportunity for all or
just stay on Baja topics, a bit disappointing. |
Disappointing? That mtngoat666 does not share your opinion? You cry about freedom? Freedom of thought, expression, and speech are the NUMBER ONE
rights ingrained in the First Amendment. Religion is not near as important, no matter what some say. Religion wants to suppress the three
fundamental freedoms I mentioned above.
You have personal freedom. So, why don't you walk around naked? Why do you dress up for formal occasions? What kind of sacrifice is it to wear a
freaking mask? No one's forced you to go ashore at Iwo Jima, or taken your land or your beloved Toyota, or any of my firearms, ever.
You may not like Goat's opinions, but he has every right to express them, and seems more than capable of defending them. Which, I cannot say for some
of the members here. Most get torn to shreds with facts rather briskly.
Happy Halloween!
John
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64491
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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John, I was answering Kurt with my thoughts and not making any rules. It isn't my website. I am not censoring the goat or his thinking (is that even
possible?).
My thoughts were directed at just this sort of thing... spinning a post to make a political statement... freedom of whatever in the U.S. is NOT a Baja
subject.
I just hope that people come here and get to see or read about Baja, not political propaganda.
Peace!
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | John, I was answering Kurt with my thoughts and not making any rules. It isn't my website. I am not censoring the goat or his thinking (is that even
possible?).
My thoughts were directed at just this sort of thing... spinning a post to make a political statement... freedom of whatever in the U.S. is NOT a Baja
subject.
I just hope that people come here and get to see or read about Baja, not political propaganda.
Peace! |
Maybe you should keep some of your "thoughts" inside your head and not commit them to public viewing? Especially if they denigrate someone else
needlessly? You're excused.
Most of our banter is pretty darn respectful, you have to admit. Or, at least most of us come back to center. It seems like most the people who
leave are the "hypocrites," or "bomb throwers" which is always a good thing. Facing truth is painful for some. The universe works in mysterious ways.
John
[Edited on 10-13-2020 by John Harper]
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3155
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| Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP |
How is someone's distracted driving, reaching into a bag of cheeseburgers or texting, crossing the center line and killing you, not contagious?
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I'd suggest you consult a dictionary to learn the definition of the word "contagious". Sorry I used such a big word you're not familiar with.
Words don't just mean whatever you think or want them to mean.
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | But how would you feel if the govt. told you your grand kids couldn't go trick or treating? |
The govt. doesn't have to tell me that my grandkids can't go trick or treating, because their parents and the kids themselves are intelligent enough
to realize that it would be an entirely stupid and dangerous thing to do while a pandemic is raging.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9269
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Harper |
If I was a young kid and my grandfather had just died recently of COVID, I would hope/beg everyone would listen to our (responsible and mature?)
elected leaders and health professionals. I would not want your father, or anyone else's grandfather put at risk unnecessarily. You can afford candy
for your two kids, right?
Happy Halloween!
John
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In my opinion, each family needs to make it's own decision.
A young family with mom and dad in their 40's, and pre-teen kids with no older relatives in the home have one risk profile.
A family with grand parents in the house who have health issues is another thing.
To apply one rule to both is not the correct answer.
I'm actually very surprised that the older folks on here accept being controlled by the whims of the govt. official in the county, town, or city they
life in. With all the varying opinions of what is safe/ok and what isn't - that's what it has boiled down to at this point, whim/agenda of a govt.
official.
When that official capriciously says it's ok to gather to protest/riot, but not ok to gather to go to church (or trick or treat), well, I'm just not
ok with that level of govt. control.
[Edited on 10-14-2020 by JZ]
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SunDevil
Junior Nomad
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Registered: 8-13-2003
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Sweden now has lowest death rate in Europe
At the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden chose to go for herd immunity by refusing to impose a hard lockdown, meaning bars, restaurants, gyms,
workplaces and schools remained open and vulnerable people were told to shield while mandatory mask rules were avoided.
Despite the mainstream media predicting that this would lead to massive fatalities, Sweden has recorded under 6,000 coronavirus deaths and now has the
lowest death rate in Europe.
The Scandinavian country’s GDP fared better than the rest of Europe and now large segments of the population have developed herd immunity, reducing
the impact of any potential “second wave.”
https://summit.news/2020/10/13/swedish-health-chief-said-cou...
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