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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I am just now reading this thread and if I knew there was a hydraulic question, I would have sooner! My apologies!
Seems you need to solve a problem with FLOW: Why no flow?
A) Pressure
Water pressure is what moves water through pipes and pressure can be created only in two ways:
A1) Gravity: The more 'down' the water moves from a source, the more pressure will be behind it. 0.433 pounds per square inch (PSI) per foot of
elevation. Add going down, subtract going up. Why water tanks for towns are high up on towers or are on hills above town.
A2) Pump: A pump pushes the water and is an artificial source of pressure.
B) FRICTION
Water moving through a pipe has friction with the inside of the pipe. Friction takes away pressure, called Friction Pressure Loss.
Bigger pipe has less friction than smaller, so less pressure is lost at the same flow rate. Charts tell you how much pressure is lost per 100 feet at
various rates of flow. Different types of pipe have different friction losses.
A bigger pipe will have less loss of pressure. Use the charts to see what size pipe you need based on the distance and the starting pressure at the
source.
*** TO GET MORE WATER PRESSURE at the end of the line: Lower the flow though the existing pipe or increase the pipe size. If you don't have any water
at all, then the source does not have enough pressure to push the water through the existing size pipe. Water has weight, and it needs force to move
it through a pipe... that force is water pressure!
I have posted all this data on Nomad in the Home Building & Living forum here... from 2014:
Quote: Originally posted by David K  | I have been in the irrigation industry since 1980 and in 1992 co-authored a book on how to easily find the flow of water available and the pressure of
the water...
Inside, are informative pages on how water works and what changes the pressure and flow of the water...
We made some charts to help see how water pressure and flow changes with elevation and pipe type and size and length...
Here are the basic limits for the flow of water you should not exceed based on pipe size:
Here is how much pressure is lost per 100 feet, based on the flow and size (and type) of pipe:
Two important facts:
You will lose less pressure by going to a larger pipe.
You will lose less pressure by reducing the flow of water.
The above water pressure loss happens as water moves through pipe (addition loss occurs when water moves through valves and fittings (elbows, tees,
etc.). These are called DYNAMIC PRESSURE LOSS.
Elevation changes also change water pressure, even when the water is not moving, called STATIC PRESSURE LOSS OR GAIN. Going downhill increases water
pressure and going uphill reduces water pressure (0.443 psi per foot):
If you need anything to help with your design, let me know!
If there is more you would like to read about, I will scan more pages from my book. It is no longer in print, but was a best seller in one
horticultural catalog for quite a while!  |
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2238
Registered: 4-23-2006
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I have noticed local plumbers laying pipe. a ditch is dug, the pipe is placed in the ditch. the ends if protected from dirt,gravel ect. at all, have
a bit of paper from a cement bag protecting it. its super common to have rocks, sand and all manner of other crap blocking the full flow.
additionally, using a small pipe size, because going up a size will cost a few more pesos, is no way to save money.
one more thought. in my sphere of living here, the use of the word "Indian" is
reacted to like the "N" word would be north of the border. in my experience "indigenous " is a bunch less offensive.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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David Kier--------Great information--------many thanks for posting it. I was not aware of your book on the subject, but I will look for it now.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17302
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | I have noticed local plumbers laying pipe. a ditch is dug, the pipe is placed in the ditch. the ends if protected from dirt,gravel ect. at all, have
a bit of paper from a cement bag protecting it. its super common to have rocks, sand and all manner of other crap blocking the full flow.
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give your plumber a roll of duct tape or painters tape to cover the pipe ends during construction, avoid debris entering pipe.
tell your plumber to flush line before making end connections, get the sand and rocks out.
it ain't rocket science.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. | David Kier--------Great information--------many thanks for posting it. I was not aware of your book on the subject, but I will look for it now.
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Hi Barry,
Thanks for your interest, but that was back in the 90s and no longer in print. It was sold by a horticulture catalog... even was a "best seller"
according to them!
Larry and I just wanted to present the details in a fun way so they could easily be used.
It was my third book, following the two Baja road guides from the 70s.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob |
one more thought. in my sphere of living here, the use of the word "Indian" is
reacted to like the "N" word would be north of the border. in my experience "indigenous " is a bunch less offensive. |
X2 
It's all part of "the flow" ...
[Edited on 11-25-2020 by motoged]
Don't believe everything you think....
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BajaBlanca
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Location: La Bocana, BCS
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INDIGENOUS it is!
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BajaBlanca
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David, that is a lot of info. Thanks so much.
I am thinking now that I will ask whoever does installations in Punta Abreojos to come over and assess the situation.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca | David, that is a lot of info. Thanks so much.
I am thinking now that I will ask whoever does installations in Punta Abreojos to come over and assess the situation. |
If you need any additional information on water pipes, pressure, etc., let me know! Wish I was there to help in person...
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1374
Registered: 7-30-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by motoged | | Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob |
one more thought. in my sphere of living here, the use of the word "Indian" is
reacted to like the "N" word would be north of the border. in my experience "indigenous " is a bunch less offensive. |
X2
It's all part of "the flow" ...
[Edited on 11-25-2020 by motoged] |
Wow, the PC police strike again. I happen to live in a part of the country that has many Indian reservations. The Indians have no issues with being
called Indian. That is how they refer to themselves as well. When will the non natives (pacificobob and motoged types) stop feeling so important that
they know better than everyone else.
Totally ridiculous.
Happy Thanksgiving all!
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1374
Registered: 7-30-2014
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BajaBlanca thank you for always being very helpful with your community and beyond. They are lucky to have you and your help.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Wow, the PC police strike again. I happen to live in a part of the country that has many Indian reservations. The Indians have no issues with being
called Indian. That is how they refer to themselves as well. When will the non natives (pacificobob and motoged types) stop feeling so important that
they know better than everyone else.
Totally ridiculous.
Happy Thanksgiving all! |
Whooops....I stand corrected by the crazy uncle. Thank you for pointing out that you know better than everyone else.
I have lived in and worked in/with Indian/native/indigenous communities for 30 years. This experience has influenced me to respect how they self
identify. Yes, some indigenous do refer to themselves as Indians, some prefer other terms (as "Indian" was a misnomer for native North Americans by
some lost white guys).
It is not about "political correctness" (something you appear to be quite distant from in terms of appealing to a caring aspect for others other than
yourself), but rather is an issue of respect.
Don't believe everything you think....
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1374
Registered: 7-30-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by motoged | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Wow, the PC police strike again. I happen to live in a part of the country that has many Indian reservations. The Indians have no issues with being
called Indian. That is how they refer to themselves as well. When will the non natives (pacificobob and motoged types) stop feeling so important that
they know better than everyone else.
Totally ridiculous.
Happy Thanksgiving all! |
Whooops....I stand corrected by the crazy uncle. Thank you for pointing out that you know better than everyone else.
I have lived in and worked in/with Indian/native/indigenous communities for 30 years. This experience has influenced me to respect how they self
identify. Yes, some indigenous do refer to themselves as Indians, some prefer other terms (as "Indian" was a misnomer for native North Americans by
some lost white guys).
It is not about "political correctness" (something you appear to be quite distant from in terms of appealing to a caring aspect for others other than
yourself), but rather is an issue of respect.
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Motoged, Interesting to me that you would refer to respect. You have clearly demonstrated your lack of the ability to respect any opinions different
from your own "woke" way of viewing the world.
I appreciate your experiences with Indians and Indigenous groups. But one size just doesnt fit all. Good day hoser.
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Chup
Junior Nomad
Posts: 74
Registered: 5-27-2017
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[/rquote]
Good day hoser.[/rquote]
Take off ya hoser, eh?
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Sr.vienes
Nomad
Posts: 151
Registered: 7-23-2017
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Not sure if someone has addressed this yet but it sure sounds like an air lock, When we install water mains in hilly country we have to install air
release valves at the peaks of the hills or it will become impossible to force the water through. One way to find where the air is trapped is get some
small self drilling stainless screws and
drill in the line where it looks like a peak might be pull it out and see if you get air or water, if your getting water put it back in and move on.
Obviously start at the source. I have seen 12” water mains blow up from an air lock and still not force the water through.
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advrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 1847
Registered: 10-2-2015
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I am Indian (American) myself and prefer to be called Indian over native American or any of the other politically correct names. Same goes for many
others that share my heritage. Not sure if it's the same in Mexico but we don't take offense by being call our actual name. Not trying to start a
political post, just thought I would share some info.
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advrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 1847
Registered: 10-2-2015
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If the timing works out when it comes time to build I would be will to spend a moth helping how ever how I can. I'm a jack of all trades, master of
none.
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3095
Registered: 5-6-2016
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"Bigger pipe has less friction than smaller, so less pressure is lost at the same flow rate. Charts tell you how much pressure is lost per 100 feet at
various rates of flow. Different types of pipe have different friction losses.
A bigger pipe will have less loss of pressure. "
Unfortunately, many of the Mexicans who have done work for me and my friends have zero understanding of this, as Baja Blanca's found out. They don't
understand hydraulics and have this false notion that reducing the size of the pipe will create more pressure.
My neighbor's so-called plumber put a 3/8 inch pipe from her main up to her tinako on the roof, saying that because we don't get a lot of water
pressure here, that would increase the pressure. I told him the pressure would depend on the pressure behind the water, not reducing the size of the
pipe, but of course I was just some dumb gringa, so what did I know.
What he did only resulted in it taking all night for her tinako to fill (and sometimes didn't fully fill as they sometimes turn the water off after a
few hours), whereas mine filled in half an hour. When she went back up north and tasked me to manage her property, I replaced that skinny pipe with a
proper size one and now her tinako fills just fine.
[Edited on 11-26-2020 by surabi]
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KasloKid
Nomad
Posts: 326
Registered: 8-29-2009
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My two cents:
To check for blockage, disconnect both ends, hook a compressor up set for 40 psi and use the air to clean the pipe out. No compressor? Then use a
portable air tank. This is a preferred method for checking for leaks. Seal one end of the pipe, fit a valve with a pressure gauge on the other end,
pressurize the line, close the valve and watch the gauge.
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2238
Registered: 4-23-2006
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | Quote: Originally posted by motoged | | Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob |
one more thought. in my sphere of living here, the use of the word "Indian" is
reacted to like the "N" word would be north of the border. in my experience "indigenous " is a bunch less offensive. |
X2
It's all part of "the flow" ...
[Edited on 11-25-2020 by motoged] |
Wow, the PC police strike again. I happen to live in a part of the country that has many Indian reservations. The Indians have no issues with being
called Indian. That is how they refer to themselves as well. When will the non natives (pacificobob and motoged types) stop feeling so important that
they know better than everyone else.
Totally ridiculous.
Happy Thanksgiving all! |
I am going to go out on a limb here. I am going g to guess, you have limited Spanish, have never lived in Mexico, have few to none mexicano friends. [
the ones you pay don't count] if you did, you would be clear that referring to someone as "indio" is highly offensive. i have witnessed it several
times. the word in not used in polite conversations. your ignorance is on full display. don't belive me? on your next trip to Mexico try using the
word...see how it works for you. then again you may consider not using the Nword PC nonsense. cheers. p.s. I have lived and still have property on
the flathead reservation in Montana. they prefer the term "indian" for the most part.
[Edited on 11-26-2020 by pacificobob]
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