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Skipjack Joe
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Quote: Originally posted by Mark_BC  |
Well I am trying to not go there since that discussion will blow up pretty quickly. I'm trying to stick to scientific evidence around the drug. I'll
encourage you to do your own investigation around the wider picture of this.
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Since we're on the subject of science Mark, you have no proof that this drug helped you. In fact, there isn't even proof that you had covid. The
majority of people recover with small flu like symptoms so even if you had it you may have recovered on your own.
I'm not saying the drug doesn't work but I don't see any science that proves anything. I'll keep digging (for a while).
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Skipjack Joe
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It's interesting that people will refuse to take a proven vaccine because it hasn't fully passed phase 3 testing trials (China, Russia, India) yet
will consider something like this which has never undergone any testing whatsoever.
[Edited on 1-31-2021 by Skipjack Joe]
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Mark_BC
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If you scroll to the bottom of ivmmeta.com they list the studies. This one stands out. Participants (health care workers) were given it weekly. Of 788
that did receive it, 0 tested positive. Of the 407 that did not receive it, 237 tested positive. Of course this is picking out one of the most
convincing studies but it is probably accurate since health care workers would likely be more diligent about properly taking the medication than
studies using the general public. They were also given carrageenan so that could be a contributing factor but regardless, the results are pretty
striking.
[Carvallo (B)], 11/17/2020, prospective, Argentina, South America, peer-reviewed, 4 authors, dosage 12mg weekly. Submit Corrections or Updates. risk
of COVID-19 case, 99.9% lower, RR 0.001, p < 0.001, treatment 0 of 788 (0.0%), control 237 of 407 (58.2%).
True, I have no evidence that I had it; however it was not the flu and the only other infection it could have been was HPIV (nasty cough) but it
didn't really fit the symptoms of that, and apparently that has been totally knocked back this year with everyone being so vigilant about hygiene. And
I got the symptoms 6 days after going to a Covid hot spot (this is the exact typical incubation period for Covid), so I can only realistically
conclude that I got it. Regardless of what it was (it was definitely viral due to the metallic taste I have in my mouth), the drug totally knocked it
back since the infection was just getting started then suddenly it went away. It hit pretty hard and I've never had a flu / cough type illness like
that go away so quickly. This is in line with what I hear from other people taking it.
One other thing, there seems to be some evidence that it affects your testicles so maybe don't use it long term. I think I might go off it
prophylactically now and just have it available in case I come down again.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29288959/
[Edited on 1-31-2021 by Mark_BC]
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Mark_BC
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | It's interesting that people will refuse to take a proven vaccine because it hasn't fully passed phase 3 testing trials (China, Russia, India) yet
will consider something like this which has never undergone any testing whatsoever.
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I'm not sure I follow you. IVM has had around 40-50 studies done on it relating to Covid, including several randomized control trials, not one of them
showing any adverse effects. It is a drug that has FDA approval, just not for off-label use to treat Covid, and has now been dosed around 5 billion
times.
The vaccines have only had a few trials per vaccine I believe (not 100% sure of that, there are now several of them out there and it's hard to keep
track). The trials that I am aware of excluded the elderly from the test group. The vaccines are NOT approved by the FDA, they are merely being given
Emergency Use Authorization. There have been several reports of severe adverse reactions and deaths from the vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-deat...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-vaxxer when they are justified. In this case however, the science is waving a big red flag to me. The animal vaccine
trials for the first SARS virus showed terrible long term effects, where the animals experienced major immune over-reactions when exposed to the real
virus a while after being vaccinated. This is called Antibody Dependent Enhancement. The trials for these vaccines weren't done long enough to
investigate long term ADE effects.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
[Edited on 1-31-2021 by Mark_BC]
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chippy
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Why wouldn´t you take it? I´ve been living down here on the mainland for 22 years and take it anually for parasites with O after effects. Oh and
this is ivermectin for humans .
[Edited on 1-31-2021 by chippy]
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Jack Swords
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Larry (Lencho), Thanks for the consideration, but I remain open minded. Covid-19 is a novel virus and we are learning as we go. Many times in
history we have not accepted presented ideas only to regret that later. I am paying attention (and have received my immunization too).
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mark_BC | | Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | It's interesting that people will refuse to take a proven vaccine because it hasn't fully passed phase 3 testing trials (China, Russia, India) yet
will consider something like this which has never undergone any testing whatsoever.
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I'm not sure I follow you. IVM has had around 40-50 studies done on it relating to Covid, including several randomized control trials, not one of them
showing any adverse effects. It is a drug that has FDA approval, just not for off-label use to treat Covid, and has now been dosed
around 5 billion times.
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And that's the crux of the matter isn't it? The fact that it has been approved for treating parasites has little to do with what we're talking about.
And yes, vaccines aren't perfect.
I hope you post your virus test results here whether they were positive or negative. I went through the same experience you went through back in
October. Even my epidemiologist said it was likely covid. Both the swab and antibody tests were negative.
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pacificobob
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any thoughts on why a treatment this effective, and available would not be in widespread use? a grand conspiracy?
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Skipjack Joe
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One of the links to a government site says that there are as many reports of it being totally ineffective as there are it being effective. Moreover
most of the positive tests were done improperly - no control groups to eliminate all factors other than the drug. The link I believe also states that
there are ongoing real trials. If results are positive the FDA will recommend it. Given how recently Covid appeared its not surprising that full 3
phased trials on Covid patients hasn’t been done. Fact is, that by the time there is a decision it will be a mute point because all will be
vaccinated. Another words they’re putting the most work in a direction that will provide the greatest gain.
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caj13
Senior Nomad
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Hey Mark and others: does this address not give you any concern?
ivmmeta.com what organization put up that website? whats their history, their financial support, their medical expertise? do they have a
financial interest in selling of the drug?
why not a GOV, or .org, or something from a research institute - stanford, mayo clinic, CDC, U mich, harvard medical - etc
BTW you claims of ivermectrin - those ae the exact claims many nomads here in this forum were making about Hydroycloroquine, as well as several other
flavor of the day newest fad cure covid drugs that were all the rage - until they weren't. so
do you understand why some here are skeptical? we've seen this story several times previously over the last 9 months - and everytime - uh OK not
so much!
I'm very interested in the drug - but given past histories, I'll wait to see some controlled studies by recognized world leaders at
medical research institutes -
[Edited on 2-1-2021 by caj13]
[Edited on 2-1-2021 by caj13]
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JZ
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NIH statement:
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/statement-on-...
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Mark_BC
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Registered: 12-1-2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
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The short answer is that I don't trust them. I guess it comes down to what you trust. Do you trust science, or do you trust what authority tells you?
I choose science, and I am by nature sceptical, which is essentially what science is all about.
I didn't come here to start a political debate, rather just to provide some science and information for those interested in taking charge of their own
health.
If you are the type who prefers to follow what authorities say, then good on you. Follow NIH's recommendation:
"The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against the use of any agents for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2
(SARS-CoV-2) pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), except in a clinical trial (AIII).
The Panel recommends against the use of any agents for SARS-CoV-2 post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP), except in a clinical trial (AIII)."
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/prev...
For many people that recommendation hasn't worked out so well. For those in India the recommendation from authorities is working out well because they
are distributing IVM.
"One of the links to a government site says that there are as many reports of it being totally ineffective as there are it being effective."
Follow their references. You will find that many of the studies they cite do not actually come to the conclusion stated. Find those studies on
ivmeta.com and compare to the rest of the studies.
Hydroxychloroqu!ne does actually work. But it only works in very early stages of the disease so you need to take it prophylactically or within a day
or two of showing symptoms. Unfortunately all the justification for the anti-HCQ sentiment has been based on studies giving it to late-stage patients
in hospital. Furthermore, they dosed it at 5x the recommended dosage to very fragile people on ventilators with severely compromised functions. And
then noticed that it actually worsens the outcome for treating Covid 19, and based on that declared that not only does HCQ not work, but is actually
dangerous!! Nonsense. Again, look to hcqmeta.com for all the studies showing HCQ's effectiveness.
But it was only a few months after HCQ came to the stage that IVM was discovered to be more effective, so most people decided that the HCQ battle
isn't worth fighting anymore, and its "ineffective" reputation lives on.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mark_BC |
If you are the type who prefers to follow what authorities say, then good on you. Follow NIH's recommendation:
"The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against the use of any agents for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2
(SARS-CoV-2) pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), except in a clinical trial (AIII).
The Panel recommends against the use of any agents for SARS-CoV-2 post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP), except in a clinical trial (AIII)."
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I'm pretty sure the NIH changed its stance from against to neutral. See the link I posted from 1/14.
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gnukid
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Keep in mind, the covid vaccine is not a vaccine by definition, it is a experimental unapproved product, with no long term testing.
The covid vaccines do not protect you from infection, nor from infecting others, it provides no long term protection from variants.
The products are designed to alter your RNA with synthesized RNA to provoke you replicate the synthesized RNA so your cells become a super producers
of Corona Proteins provoking a super reaction in your body to work harder to excrete them, supposedly this will help some people, while some will
result with severe reactions and compromised auto-immune systems.
On the other hand, without the vaccine products, fewer than %0.01 percent or 1 out of 10,000 result in death and of those (1:10,000) %96 had 2-3
severe other illnesses they died from.
Meaning, the vaccine are risky with little benefit demonstrated, while without you have very low risk from covid influenza type infections.
More importantly, manage your personal health.
Do not listen to ignorant messages on social media, inducing fear, through intimidation. 15-20 minutes of sunshine a few days a week provokes your
body to produce vitamin D which is critical to immunity.
CDC Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System has hundreds of thousands of reports of adverse affects, which represents only a fraction of cases in a
short time including, paralysis and death.
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3160
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| Quote: Originally posted by gnukid |
On the other hand, without the vaccine products, fewer than %0.01 percent or 1 out of 10,000 result in death
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The worldwide death rate from COVID is 3%. That's 300 people out of every 10,000, not 1.
Posting your opinions is one thing, posting misinformation as fact is idiotic, when anyone with a brain they want to use can easily access the
accurate information.
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BajaParrothead
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My 63 year old brother is at high risk for covid complications. He is overweight, diabetic, asthma, and atrial fibrillation. Not a great combo for
battling covid. Wednesday he woke feeling like he had been "run over by a truck", so he went to the doctor. Sure enough, he contracted covid from
the electrician that was wiring the shop. Being a rancher, he had a few tubes of equine ivermectin on hand, so last night he took a single human
sized dose. This morning he woke up symptom free. Maybe there is actually some fact behind all of the talk about ivermectin. He took the chance
because he figured that the covid was potentially much more dangerous than the horse paste.
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JZ
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Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaParrothead | | My 63 year old brother is at high risk for covid complications. He is overweight, diabetic, asthma, and atrial fibrillation. Not a great combo for
battling covid. Wednesday he woke feeling like he had been "run over by a truck", so he went to the doctor. Sure enough, he contracted covid from
the electrician that was wiring the shop. Being a rancher, he had a few tubes of equine ivermectin on hand, so last night he took a single human
sized dose. This morning he woke up symptom free. Maybe there is actually some fact behind all of the talk about ivermectin. He took the chance
because he figured that the covid was potentially much more dangerous than the horse paste. |
Wow. That is some brass balls. It would be great if this does prove to be a good therapeutic.
[Edited on 2-14-2021 by JZ]
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chippy
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You don´t have to take animal ivermectin they make it for humans and you can buy it over the counter down here with no script. Chiapas is the only
state in the Mexican republic that is in the green semaforo and the only state to widely use ivermectin.
https://covid19criticalcare.com/i-mask-prophylaxis-treatment...
[Edited on 2-14-2021 by chippy]
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BajaParrothead
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Not so readily available NOB, unfortunately. I spoke to my primary
physician on Friday and she told me that they are forbidden to prescribe it for covid due to lack of FDA approval for that purpose. So I told her I
have parasites in my Mexican tap water and she said she would need a fecal sample prior to prescribing it.
[Edited on 2-14-2021 by BajaParrothead]
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BajaParrothead
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by BajaParrothead | | My 63 year old brother is at high risk for covid complications. He is overweight, diabetic, asthma, and atrial fibrillation. Not a great combo for
battling covid. Wednesday he woke feeling like he had been "run over by a truck", so he went to the doctor. Sure enough, he contracted covid from
the electrician that was wiring the shop. Being a rancher, he had a few tubes of equine ivermectin on hand, so last night he took a single human
sized dose. This morning he woke up symptom free. Maybe there is actually some fact behind all of the talk about ivermectin. He took the chance
because he figured that the covid was potentially much more dangerous than the horse paste. |
Wow. That is some brass balls. It would be great if this does prove to be a good therapeutic.
[Edited on 2-14-2021 by JZ] |
Maybe it's not such a stretch for him to use equine meds; he often acts like a complete jacka$$!
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