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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64526
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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How much did the $0 electric bill actually cost? Purchase or lease the panels?
Nice for Bakersfield weather!
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5831
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retireded
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Bakersfield weather
About twenty years ago I pulled into Bakersfield with my Alaska plated car and brought them a snowstorm. I'll bet that doesn't happen there very
often! 
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9312
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Quote: Originally posted by lencho  |
Dunno. Probably fossil fuels or nuke. 
But if by "it" you mean arriving at per capita energy production rivaling that which enables our privileged lifestyle here in a few "first world"
countries, the idea is worrisome: The system is overloaded enough as it is, without that extra heat input.
IF indeed those societies manage to grow in that direction, the only way I can see it not wreaking further havoc on global temperatures, is via such
"renewable" technologies as solar, wind, hydro, etc. (which have the advantage of not injecting additional heat into the system). But those all have
nontrivial capital outlay. |
Nuclear is the best bet. I've seen enough TED talks of long time ECO nerds who have been pursuing Wind and Solar for decades who now state that
Wind/Solar are too expensive, complex, and harmful to the planet to make sense. The ones that have come to their senses are now backing Nuclear.
Wind / Solar is interesting for personal scale, but not grid scale.
For the emerging 3rd world countries, they are going to have to go Fossil.
[Edited on 7-26-2022 by JZ]
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I lease my panels $150/mo. At the time it was the best way to go. In Hindsight I should have bought them. Still a good deal.
I too think nuclear is the way to go. Our problem is every plant is built different. France has it right all the plants are built the same.
The US navy has had nuclear ships since the 1950s with an excellent safety record, sure a couple have been lost but the record speaks for itself. I've
talked to navy men who have served on nuclear ships and they say the difference is that the navy does safety drills constantly.
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Paco Facullo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1301
Registered: 1-21-2017
Location: Here now
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Mood: Abiding ..........
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Ya, but one very unfortunate result of nuclear power is that the nuclear waste and the nuclear isotopes themselves will be polluting this planet LONG
after us humans have left this earth.
But on the plus side, it'll be keeping the surviving c-ckroaches warm and happy........
Since I've given up all hope, I feel much better
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9312
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by TMW | I lease my panels $150/mo. At the time it was the best way to go. In Hindsight I should have bought them. Still a good deal.
I too think nuclear is the way to go. Our problem is every plant is built different. France has it right all the plants are built the same.
The US navy has had nuclear ships since the 1950s with an excellent safety record, sure a couple have been lost but the record speaks for itself. I've
talked to navy men who have served on nuclear ships and they say the difference is that the navy does safety drills constantly.
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France did it right. Germany did it wrong.
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3223
Registered: 5-6-2016
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Regardless of the energy source, humans have to stop acting so entitled and wanting so much. I have never had AC, even though I live where it's hot
and humid a lot of the time. So I'm hot, so what? I have one vehicle, not a car and a truck and a boat, and a moto and an ATV. I try to eat food that
is locally grown, not stuff shipping from across the planet. Why do people who live in temperate climates need oranges and bananas all year? When
local food is plentiful, I freeze and can it, so I can enjoy it all year. I organize my shopping trips so I only have to drive to the stores once
every 2 weeks. I create very little garbage- the garbage truck doesn't have to come around more than once a month, as far as I'm concerned- I might
have one full garbage bag in that amount of time. I raised three daughters in a house with one small bathroom. We all survived just fine.
We need to stop all the entitled consuming before there is nothing left to consume.
18 billion tons of ice sheet in Greenland just melted in the past 3 days.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17388
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/calmatters.org/newsletters/what...
While the world goes to chit, some states act, while others stick their head in the sand.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Paco Facullo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1301
Registered: 1-21-2017
Location: Here now
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Mood: Abiding ..........
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The entire world could and should learn a valuable lesson from the ONLY carbon positive County in the world, Bhutan ..
Where their slogan is " Not gross national product, rather gross national happiness"
https://borgenproject.org/bhutans-gross-national-happiness-i...
Since I've given up all hope, I feel much better
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pauldavidmena
Super Nomad
Posts: 1689
Registered: 5-23-2013
Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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Happiness is a Bhut Jolokia pepper, erroneously called a "ghost pepper". 
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1165
Registered: 2-22-2020
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What an interesting concept. While this remains the basic underlying goal of human developement, we have instead substituted other measures of what we
should be striving towards. Every change we make should have this defined as the ultimate goal. Wasteful and self centered greed obviously don't
contribute to this pattern, yet they remain primary drivers in a competitive society.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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The Progressive vision is to have everyone own an EV that has a range of 200 miles and can't haul anything, no place to charge it while traveling, no
way to generate the electricity needed to run it, and no plan to deal with the nightmare of recycling millions of spent batteries.
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3015
Registered: 5-21-2013
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=== ==
No Plan ??
Actually there are many companies taking car Lithium batteries and recycling them There is significant profit to be made to recover cobalt and
lithium.
Ford just announce a joint venture with a company to recover the stuff.
There will still be a need for cobalt/lithium for a long time even though the iron phosphate battery that doesn't not use cobalt/lithium production
will eventually take over.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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VW Fires CEO over ambitious EV plan
Shares of Volkswagen have lost 43.7%
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/volkswagen-vwagy-ceo-to...
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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FYI I have solar, I support a solar team in Baja, we have made many installations in remote places and in La Paz and el Triunfo. Solar will never
recoup the costs versus buying electricity when available.
Real world experience helps you learn about issues, Solar in the home has its place where no other option exists. I use battery banks in every gas
powered car charged off hybrid alternator and solar to allow me to build up power to charge sub zero coolers to allow me to camp, freeze fish, ice,
drinks, and for backup power at home when power fails which is often and doing so reduces waste when in baja.
BUT, EV is a very poor design for power for transit, EV will never allow you to travel to baja, today, WEF made it clear by stating clearly they want
no one to own a personal car or have ability to freely transit.
WEF Issues Edict to Global Leaders: Phase Out Car Ownership, People Can ‘Walk or Share’
https://newspunch.com/wef-issues-edict-to-global-leaders-pha...
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6943
Registered: 8-5-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by PaulW |
Actually there are many companies taking car Lithium batteries and recycling them There is significant profit to be made to recover cobalt and
lithium.
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Do you have a link to a company that is making a profit recycling lithium batteries? I've read that it is a chemically messy and complicated process,
and the resulting lithium and cobalt cost more than the elements out of the ground.
My information could be old though.
[Edited on 7-26-2022 by SFandH]
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3015
Registered: 5-21-2013
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Redwood Materials broke ground on the Nevada site back in December, and it aims to begin production of cathode materials by late 2024. By 2025, it
expects to be able to produce enough of that particular material to support the production of one-million EVs annually, or 100GWh of battery capacity.
As for the raw materials it needs to do so, Redwood says that it will be able to source 30 percent of the lithium and nickel and 100 percent of the
cobalt it needs to make those batteries from its recycling efforts, which currently consist of around 20 metric tons of lithium-ion batteries per
year.
=== ==
The leading companies in the lithium-ion battery recycling market include Umicore (Belgium), Glencore International AG (Switzerland), Retriev
Technologies Inc. (US), Raw Materials Company Inc. (RMC) (Canada), American Zinc Recycling (US), American Manganese Inc.
=== ==
https://www.marketsandmarkets.com/Market-Reports/lithium-ion...
https://www.waste360.com/recycling/battery-resourcers-open-n...
And a bunch of startup companies in the recycle business
Li-Cycle
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6943
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Electric vehicles are perfect for high-density, urban areas. People don't drive very many miles so the range isn't an issue and there is a huge public
health advantage.
The global warming caused by the CO2 issue has eclipsed the air pollution issue large cities have been dealing with for decades. IC engines are dirty,
especially diesel. They emit visible and microscopic particulates that are making ill and killing the inhabitants of high-density cities. Considering
this, it's much better to have a city filled with electric vehicles that do not pollute the air city dwellers and workers are breathing. That's 100s
of millions of people.
I recently watched an interview with a thoracic surgeon in Mumbai. He said he NEVER sees pink lungs anymore. All his patients have gray/black lungs.
Before it was only cigarette smokers, now it's everybody, even teenagers.
Clearly, the more electric vehicles in urban areas, where there are the most vehicles, the better.
Amazon has started taking delivery of Rivian delivery trucks.
[Edited on 7-26-2022 by SFandH]
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6943
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Recycling can be done and should be done but there is a significant issue, profitability.
Your first link states in bold font:
Challenges: High cost of recycling due to extraction of lithium from spent lithium-ion batteries
That statement would not have been made if it was a profitable business.
The second link doesn't address profitability.
If it's cheaper to buy freshly mined lithium, cobalt, whatever than recycled stuff, recycled stuff won't be used.
I think that is the current situation. Maybe if/when demand outstrips supply, recyclers can make a buck. Maybe.
[Edited on 7-26-2022 by SFandH]
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1165
Registered: 2-22-2020
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The orders for EV buses has exploded recently, as a quick look at BYD in Lancaster CA (Berkshire Hathaway's biggest percentage gainer over 10 years),
New Flyer (Manitoba) and others sales shows. They just make great sense on short trips, outstripping the old Natural Gas advantages by a large factor.
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