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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  | Looks to me like there's plenty of room for the SOC to expand before any sea level rise at DK's palm tree becomes noticeable. Check out how far the
river has receded. Lots of room for expansion.
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7322918,-114.8912632,71753m/...
Seems like massive depletion of river inflow at one end of the SOC has just been able to mask the effects of warming in this localized sea, but this
is possibly just an unintended consequence of damming and exploiting the Colorado. None of this contradicts existing science.
This might explain DK's tree to some extent. Occam's Razor and all that kind of logic, you know.
If anyone is left with an open mind, please chime in. Otherwise, you know what to do with yourself.
John
[Edited on 8-21-2021 by John Harper] |
So many reasons that dk is confused by the photos of his precious palm trees:
(1) Each storm flow out of the arroyo deposits new sediment in back-beach area (ground elevation rises)
(2) that area of baja has quaternary tectonic uplift recorded in literature, seems likely uplift is still occurring (perhaps land rises same rate as
sea level changes, perhaps dk can survey temporal changes of land elevations to mm accuracy using his palm tree method)
(3) storm waves may have deposited sediment on beach (ground elevation rises)
(4) the palm trees die and get replaced every decade or two, his photos don’t even distinguish individual palm trees and their ages, very sloppy
photo album science)
For many reasons, scientists use carefully calibrated tide gauges to record sea level changes, and they don’t use dk’s vacation photo album of
palm trees and drunken people on beach holiday (well, maybe some creation scientists at Bob Jones university use palm trees, eh?)
[Edited on 8-21-2021 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
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LOL
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4x4abc
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cool! - photo album science
Harald Pietschmann
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RFClark
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Goat,
If the land goes up and/or down then the tide gauges and the palm trees go with it! Just like Naples!
It’s only been since GPS that there was a simple and very accurate way to measure millimeter elevation changes!
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surfhat
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Why is it so hard to grasp the absolute FACT that certain areas of the globe experience climate change earlier and more than others? They are the
forbearers of what is coming.
The Bay of Conception cannot show the irreversible changes that the Arctic and islands in the Pacific and elsewhere irrefutably are experiencing
severe climactic changes.
We are leaving generations to come a dismal future through the proliferation of incompetence and downright ignorance.
The undeniable truth is out there and has been for decades.
peeing into the wind for all the good it will do with those who choose to ignore the clear signs of the coming viability of human life on this lonely
planet.
We have had a Eden given to us. Mother Earth deserves better treatment.
Peace and love. Thank you Ringo. haha
Fish tacos forever as long as we have them. Just don't look for the plastic in every sea creature we would like to consume. It is already there.
All life springs from the oceans and we are killing them as surely as we are killing the potential of 'human' life on the planet. Perhaps that is what
it will take and it will be too late by then, if it isn't already. Our supposed superiority is only a supposition.
Now for a change of pace. Happy Sunday Baja lovers.
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BajaTed
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So far; every aspect of the infamous palm has been shared except the human part associated with it;
Waking up by the tree to a glorious sunrise is awesome. Go catch some Pargo off the point. Make ceviche. Hook up later with Daniel the diver and tell
him you will have Pacifico Ballena's . He then brings Chocolate Clams for a classic Baja story session as only he can tell.
Es Todo Bueno
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4x4abc
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sea level rise is 133/1000" per year
so, David's 1936 palm tree picture would have experienced an 11" sea level rise
not much
barely visible
but barely visible does not mean, it is not there
some don't see/understand subtle changes
some only understand when it is too late
from climate change over Trump to Covid
https://sealevel.nasa.gov/
Harald Pietschmann
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BajaMama
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The bottom line is that humans, since industrialization and the burning of fossil fuels, have impacted the climate on the planet. Stats and facts
don't lie. Deniers cry that we always go between ice ages and swampy periods. This is true, BUT NOT IN JUST 100 YEARS. These naturally occurring
changes take hundreds of millennia, not mere decades. All you deniers can throw out memes and justifications for the situation we are in, but NOTHING
will change the FACT that the seas are rising, glaciers are melting, and the planet is heating up at a rate that is unnaturally caused by human
actions and behavior. And as it continues we will see more severe weather, droughts and other events brought on by man-made global warming.
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | sea level rise is 133/1000" per year
so, David's 1936 palm tree picture would have experienced an 11" sea level rise
not much
barely visible
but barely visible does not mean, it is not there
some don't see/understand subtle changes
some only understand when it is too late
from climate change over Trump to Covid
https://sealevel.nasa.gov/
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Thanks Harold, I appreciate that, but its not the current rise per say that raises the alarms. Its what we know is coming. It's not a snapshot in
time - its the trends and rates that are so concerning to actual scientists and those who actually embrace science for its process and "power".
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by caj13 | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | sea level rise is 133/1000" per year
so, David's 1936 palm tree picture would have experienced an 11" sea level rise
not much
barely visible
but barely visible does not mean, it is not there
some don't see/understand subtle changes
some only understand when it is too late
from climate change over Trump to Covid
https://sealevel.nasa.gov/
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Thanks Harold, I appreciate that, but its not the current rise per say that raises the alarms. Its what we know is coming. It's not a snapshot in
time - its the trends and rates that are so concerning to actual scientists and those who actually embrace science for its process and "power".
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we know what's coming and are concerned since 1896 (Svante Arrhenius) - but the medieval mob prefers snake oil salesmen. Humans always choose colorful
stories (no facts needed) over naked numbers and concepts that go beyond their grasp.
[Edited on 8-22-2021 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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BajaRun
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I try to do my part in my little slice of the world. I'm certainly not a liberal. I would like to do what I can to preserve our planet for future
generations... But what little part I can do is in reality diminished by 1.4 billion in China and 1.4 billion in India.
If it makes you feel good then do your part and preach your sermon. But it ain't gonna matter.
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaRun | I try to do my part in my little slice of the world. I'm certainly not a liberal. I would like to do what I can to preserve our planet for future
generations... But what little part I can do is in reality diminished by 1.4 billion in China and 1.4 billion in India.
If it makes you feel good then do your part and preach your sermon. But it ain't gonna matter.
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your part is to elect politicians in your country that could make a positive difference. Yes, there are some. Don't worry about China and India. They
are getting their chit together faster than you think. Because they are not hampered by public opinion and freedom ideas. Why do I think it will be
fast (in political terms)? Dead and sick people don't make money for the rich and for the government. So, expect to see changes soon. On the personal
level? Recycle if it makes you feel good. Won't make a difference - but feeling good is important. You can see the effect of not feeling good every
day on this forum.
Harald Pietschmann
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RFClark
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So if “it’s coming” why do so many of those leading us live in huge oceanfront estates located at the current sea level? In fact some have
several such estates along with private jets and Big SUVs!
More people might follow if they were led by example and not from the French Laundry!
Personally, I’m green because it actually saves not just the earth but money!
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | So if “it’s coming” why do so many of those leading us live in huge oceanfront estates located at the current sea level? In fact some have
several such estates along with private jets and Big SUVs!
More people might follow if they were led by example and not from the French Laundry!
Personally, I’m green because it actually saves not just the earth but money! |
because it is cool to live close to the water. And it is cool to be rich. It is cool to own a very expensive property. And rich allows them to
relocate anywhere anytime they want. But if you wait too long selling your house close to the water, you'll lose everything the American dream
promised you.
Harald Pietschmann
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RFClark
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Harold,
I’m an Engineering type! My locations are all above the mean sea level by more than 10 M!
I’ve known since I was a child that you could walk to Catalina at the end of the last Ice Age!
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | Harold,
I’m an Engineering type! My locations are all above the mean sea level by more than 10 M!
I’ve known since I was a child that you could walk to Catalina at the end of the last Ice Age! |
good thinking
always make sure your home, your family is safe
right after that is the thought - what will the future bring?
in the old days, religion "helped" you
today you are on your own choosing the source of information for your evaluation
not easy
most still fall for gurus who formulate thoughts for them (talk radio)
feels good
usually its wrong
[Edited on 8-23-2021 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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RFClark
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Harold,
For Engineers, Murphy has always been God or Nature’s appointed enforcer! You’d do well to listen to him!
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Hook
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | It looks to me like the utilities contributions are being dealt with quite quickly and effectively. Now how do we get people to drive to the grocery
store in smaller more fuel efficient vehicles instead of the jacked up 400 hp 4by4's? Tiny parking stalls didn't help as they just use up 4 of em.
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In a country as "free" as ours, born of capitalism, people do almost nothing unless there is a monetary incentive to do so. Yes, some people are
altruistic to a point. But altruism drops when altruism becomes inconvenient.
Heck, even altruism has a monetary component. Before the Trump tax cut, many got a tax break to give to charity. Most of the middle class has lost
that tax break. Charitable receipts are way down.
Anyway, there will have to be a monetary incentive to get into smaller, more efficient vehicles. Or to take public transportation. People won't "just
do it". Even for a reason as large as "saving the planet". People just don't think that far ahead in their lives.
Incentives can occur in a couple ways. One is seeing what we are seeing now. Gas and diesel approaching and passing 4.00/gallon. It will have to get
much higher than that, probably.
The other might be some combination of governmental incentives.
Personally, I have really enjoyed turning a lot of my errands into e-bike opportunities. It's not for everyone. Solutions rarely fit everyone's
abilities. My locale is pretty darn bike friendly.
But I think the single biggest obstacle to turning to bikes is that our cities are just not that bike friendly. I think it's ABOVE a lack of physical
ability to operate a bike, as an obstacle.
And people THINK they just dont have the time to use the bike, for these purposes. Well, they would if they would carve out some of the hours they
spend on their devices. 
The physical obstacles in the cities has to change. No one likes sharing the road with giant hunks of metal, spewing noxious exhaust. We need more
protected (with physical barriers) bike paths.
And we need incentives to purchase these non-polluting options.
And we need cheaper electric options in cars. Electric cars are not cheap.
Oh sure, these options are not going to replace our "toy haulers" on vacations. They wont have to, if we replace that carbon emission with reductions
in city driving. All that flocking idling in traffic, with one person at the wheel......my god!
In the end, maybe it's all, too little, too late........
Maybe the evolution of the human race is to produce something that eventually kills off several billion and makes the planet more habitable again. Pollution is evolutionarily inevitable, maybe, at these numbers of people.
Maybe it wasn't The Bomb, after all.
One thing's for sure, to me. Why bother trying to inhabit Mars, or anywhere else, to save the human race from itself? Why should there be a refuge
from this level of pollution?
It'll only be inhabited by elitist rich people, anyway, probably looking for a way to monetize something or other "up there".
If we can't fix it here, let it end here. Don't export our failure to some other unsuspecting environment, and continue the cycle. Fix it, or die
trying.
There......a healthy dose of pragmatic fatalism, as summer days shorten on a Monday morning.
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RFClark
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We have had e cars since 2013.
Generally they have been very useful for runs up to 90 miles each way.
Currently we have a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq plug hybrid. It goes 27 miles on electricity and gets over 60 mpg on cheap gas. It’s not a small car as it
weighs 3300lbs. The range is 600 miles. The car cost $18K!
We just drove it to Rapid City SD and back. The lane following and adaptive cruse control worked great. We averaged 55 - 60 mpg running 70-80 mph! It
would have done better at 65 and w/o AC on.
There are no politics here, just engineering! The fuel costs are about 7 cents/mile. Deprecation is about 15 cents/mile and maintenance reserve is
about 5 cents/mile assuming $0 value at 200K miles! That's almost 1/2 of what our 2016 Nissan Rogue cost to run!
You do the math! The per mile deduction is 45 cents/mile!
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JZ
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I'll stick to my 3/4 ton diesel. Thank you very much!
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