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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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If all the ice on Greenland melts the sea level will rise 23 feet.
If all the ice on Antarctica melts it will rise another 200 feet.
How long it will take depends on us. I'm choking on smoke today. At this point I'm wondering if there will be any trees left in Cal/Oregon by then.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Quote: Originally posted by lencho  | | Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | There are things I really like about cutting and trimming with battery powered saws, but if you want to do a day's work, they are not yet an
acceptable substitute for gas powered saws. |
Exactly. Can you imagine logging, or road clearing after a major storm, with an electric saw?
The power-to-weight ratio of a fossil fuel chansaw is pretty amazing, and they run through a heck of a lot less gasoline than the driving a car down
to the corner grocery store for soda pop. |
There are many variables that go into this, but the following example illustrates the battery weight problem.
A Tesla Model S, 85 Kwh battery pack weighs 1200 pounds. The range is generously 300 miles.
A roughly equivalent gas-powered car would require 12 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. 12 gallons of gas weighs 75 pounds.
So, in this case, 1200 pounds of batteries will do what 75 pounds of gas do.
Or, an electric chain saw with a 100-pound battery pack will do what a gas chain saw with a one-gallon tank (6.3 pounds) does.
[Edited on 10-11-2021 by SFandH]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17339
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by lencho | | Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | There are things I really like about cutting and trimming with battery powered saws, but if you want to do a day's work, they are not yet an
acceptable substitute for gas powered saws. |
Exactly. Can you imagine logging, or road clearing after a major storm, with an electric saw?
The power-to-weight ratio of a fossil fuel chansaw is pretty amazing, and they run through a heck of a lot less gasoline than the driving a car down
to the corner grocery store for soda pop. |
There are many variables that go into this, but the following example illustrates the battery weight problem.
A Tesla Model S, 85 Kwh battery pack weighs 1200 pounds. The range is generously 300 miles.
A roughly equivalent gas-powered car would require 12 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. 12 gallons of gas weighs 75 pounds.
So, in this case, 1200 pounds of batteries will do what 75 pounds of gas do.
Or, an electric chain saw with a 100-pound battery pack will do what a gas chain saw with a one-gallon tank (6.3 pounds) does.
[Edited on 10-11-2021 by SFandH] |
electric motors weigh much less than equivalent IC engine/transmission. in case of tesla, the 1200 lb battery pack is OK as the car does not have the
heavy IC engine and transmission and accessories that are in your fossil fuel vehicle.
i use a small e-chain saw, as well as many other e-tools -- and i have multiple batteries to get me thru a day of yard work.
i do have a gas-powered chain saw, but only rarely need the gasoline beast for large wood. most yard work is smaller diameter branches that e-chain
saw handles well.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline;
however, plutonium does a good job.
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luna negra
Newbie
Posts: 10
Registered: 10-12-2018
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For what it's worth, I was a skeptic of an e-saw until I tried the Milwaukee 18V model. Will cut for quite a long time on one battery and don't have
to worry about the carbs gumming up and gas lines rotting from gas with ethanol. Highly recommend.
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Don Pisto
Super Nomad
Posts: 1241
Registered: 8-1-2018
Location: El Pescador
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Mood: weary like everyone else
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"why don't we just get in the running car!"
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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The 12" battery-powered chain saws for sale by Amazon have excellent reviews.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17339
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline;
however, plutonium does a good job. |
Apples and oranges. You are comparing weight of liquid fuel to weight of energy storage device.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64491
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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"are you nuts?"
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline;
however, plutonium does a good job. |
Apples and oranges. You are comparing weight of liquid fuel to weight of energy storage device.
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Considering that the Tesla battery can last for 300-600,000 miles, it should be 1200 lbs. of Tesla
batteries=30-40,000 lbs. of fuel.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5819
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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A couple of things I didn't expect with my e-saw
The electric motor develops torque at lower rpms than gas, so it is able to cut with slower chain speed. Cutting hard dry wood, or limbs at high rpm
can generate enough heat to shorten the chain and bar life.
With my e-saw, it seems to me that I am going much longer between sessions of sharpening and adjusting the tension of the bar/chain!
Even with a fully charged battery, and a sharp chain, if I work it too hard it will overheat and shut down until it cools a bit. It doesn't take long
to re-set, but it is still annoying. At this point I am not sure if it is the battery or the motor that needs to cool, but if it happens again I will
swap a battery right away and report the result.
[Edited on 10-12-2021 by AKgringo]
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Still, it takes 100 pounds of batteries to deliver what 6.3 pounds of gasoline does. That's my point. Tough to beat the energy density of gasoline;
however, plutonium does a good job. |
Apples and oranges. You are comparing weight of liquid fuel to weight of energy storage device.
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I was making the point you would need a fully charged 100-pound battery pack to do the work of 6.3 pounds of gasoline.
An important consideration when addressing hand-held machinery like chain saws. Which would you prefer to move around to do a day's work in the woods
with a chain saw? A gallon of gas or 100 pounds of batteries?
Energy density is joules per kilogram. Period. Both gasoline and lithium-ion batteries can be measured in joules per kilogram.
[Edited on 10-12-2021 by SFandH]
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | The electric motor develops torque at lower rpms than gas, so it is able to cut with slower chain speed. Cutting hard dry wood, or limbs at high rpm
can generate enough heat to shorten the chain and bar life.
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One huge advantage of electric motors, constant/instant torque. This is why railroads use electric motors to drive locomotives with diesel generators
to supply the electricity, been using it for over 50-70 years now. Electric car acceleration is incredible, from what I've read. Never even been in
a Prius, let alone a Tesla. But, torque from electric motors is real.
Why do you think Ford is using torque as a main selling point to the electric F series? They pull harder than gas or diesel trucks. Selling it right
down the alley to truck people. I can pull more than you!!!!
If JZ wasn't a GMC guy, I was hoping he'd get the electric Ford F150 truck and show us all up!!! Come on, JZ, show the Goat, buy (lease) an electric
F150! You know you love being the "first kid on the block" to have one.
John
[Edited on 10-12-2021 by John Harper]
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2339
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Looking forward to 2024
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So since I can’t comment on the problems that blanket outlawing of small gas motors will cause. I’ll just post this picture! It’s 10/11 we live
at 4200’ Computer models are GIGO!
Since I probably can’t use the “S” word either, I’ll leave it to the reader to interpret what they’re looking at!
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Harper |
Why do you think Ford is using torque as a main selling point to the electric F series? They pull harder than gas or diesel trucks. Selling it right
down the alley to truck people. I can pull more than you!!!!
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Part of the electric F-150 Lightning increased torque is used to get it moving.
"The Lightning weighs 6,500 pounds—more than 35 percent more than the gas-powered model. That’s in large part because of an immovable weight at
its core: an 1,800-pound battery. Part of that is just the nature of electric vehicles: The Tesla Model 3 weighs 1,000 pounds more than a Honda Civic.
The more luxurious Tesla Model S weighs 1,200 pounds more than a Lexus ES 350."
https://slate.com/business/2021/05/ford-f150-lightning-elect...
I'm all for electric vehicles but the battery packs are heavy and will become a huge, HUGE toxic waste issue. Currently, it's cheaper to dig the
elements needed to make batteries out of the ground than it is to recycle them.
[Edited on 10-12-2021 by SFandH]
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5819
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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A few posts are missing
Kind of curious why they were deleted? I can agree that a California law is not exactly a Baja issue, but many of us Nomads will be using some of the
gas or electric tools tools being discussed on our trips SOB.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2242
Registered: 4-23-2006
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Tesla plaid S
0 to 60. 1.9 seconds
$129K
Sweet jebus!
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Marc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2747
Registered: 5-15-2010
Location: San Francisco & Palm Springs
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | I've been to China about 20 times. The pollution is so bad you can feel it burning your face. Let us know when they sign up for a Green New Deal.
[Edited on 10-15-2021 by Marc]
I have also been to China and SE Asia. Unbelievable pollution. You have to experience it to believe. How about a Green New Deal for those Bozos and
leave us alone.
Marc
[Edited on 10-16-2021 by Marc] |
Exercise regularly. Eat sensibly. Die anyway.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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"Most of the batteries that do get recycled undergo a high-temperature melting-and-extraction, or smelting, process similar to ones used in the mining
industry. Those operations, which are carried out in large commercial facilities—for example, in Asia, Europe, and Canada—are energy intensive.
The plants are also costly to build and operate and require sophisticated equipment to treat harmful emissions generated by the smelting process. And
despite the high costs, these plants don’t recover all valuable battery materials."
https://cen.acs.org/materials/energy-storage/time-serious-re...
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lewmt
Junior Nomad
Posts: 79
Registered: 4-12-2017
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I have been loving my Milwaukee esaw. I have 12ah + 8ah batteries I use with it & they seem to last a long time. I haven't used it for super
consistent cutting like blocking firewood chunks I've used it primarily for clearing mtn bike trails & they've been badly littered. The saw works
fantastic for this as its easier & a bit less messy to pack in my backpack.
Having said all that - the earth, the oceans, the atmosphere is going to do what its going to do whether I or everyone uses an e-anything or not.
With all forms of energy there are trade-offs. If our fearless leaders decrying "climate change" ever lead by example I may be more accepting of
their rhetoric but so far all I see is the hypocrisy of "rules for thee & not for me"
[Edited on 10-15-2021 by lewmt]
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