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David K
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Isn't it wonderful that the sea level rises only where it is convenient!
How many boat launch ramps are now fully submerged? Any? Why not?
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BajaNomad
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Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  | | Quote: Originally posted by David K |
I guess they are all popping up from under the sands of time. Nice that the sea hasn't risen enough to hide them longer! |
On the contrary, the fact wrecks are becoming more uncovered is due to rising seas eroding the coastal dunes where wrecks get buried, and the
depletion of river borne sand into coastal areas (dams, harbors, etc.) means less replacement as time goes on. Completely fits with rising sea
levels and the predicted effects.
It all depends on the locality of each ship when it foundered as to how the wreck is buried. Rocky shoreline or near rivermouths or even big sand
traps like Baja has near GN, etc.
John
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My recollection of the situation of the San Felipe (it's difficult to fathom there are two similar "shipwrecks" in... the same **exact** location
attributed within two years of one another... 400 years ago... AND the lead "historian" [or whatever] for both today is Edward Von der Porten... just
sayin') was that it wasn't being exposed by the shifting tide, but in the shifting sands in the wind. A lot of the items they've found were exposed
after all this time up the beach in the dunes.
I suppose one could interpret that as tides being lower today than at the time, but who knows. It is what it is.
Agreed, very interesting stuff.
[Edited on 8-28-2021 by BajaNomad]
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John M
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Ghost Galleon
Has anyone read the Ghost Galleon book shown in the opening of this thread?
John M
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BajaNomad
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Preview:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Ghost_Galleon/WyfPDwAAQ...
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | The links from Doug are to the shipwreck of the San Felipe. Did they re-identify the ship or is this a different ship? |
I've been able to spend a little more time with this.... and it looks like they changed their identification to the San Juanillo from the San Felipe a
few years back.
More on this:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=Z...
The above doc is sourced from:
https://sites.google.com/site/manilagalleonlisting/
[Edited on 8-28-2021 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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BajaNomad
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From earlier when it was believed to likely be the San Felipe... fyi.
--
The Manila Galleon in Baja California
For 12 years now, there have been several field seasons by American researchers and the Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Histoira (INAH) in the
Pacific coast of Baja California, where thousands of pieces of Chinese porcelain dating to the sixteenth century, as well as coins, blocks of wax, and
other objects, whose origin no doubt, is a Manila Galleon shipwreck have been documented (INAH 2005; INAH 2007; INAH 2009; INAH 2010). The porcelain
collection is one of the most important in Mexico and opens a window into the early trade of the New Spain and Asia. In July 1751, the tireless Jesuit
missionary Father Consag, in his explorations of Baja California records the site:
| Quote: |
By mid morning those who went to survey the spit of sand brought a bowl, a cup, a big cup, a plate of Chinaware and a good portion of white wax paste.
They informed that the area is full of vases, large plates and the like, nails and pieces of iron that disintegrate into powder with contact, even the
nails that are still tucked into the broken timbers; lead pieces can be found, several medium and small pieces of bronze, but what is more abundant
and easily found is the wax. For lack of water they cannot stop for much time, because the nearest is very salty, and if it does not give thirst, it
does not quench it. All these things, clearly indicate that in this sandy beach or contours, a vessel sank, which can even happen without a big storm,
or because the coast is unknown (Ortega 1887:524).
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Although there are historical records of the site, as the one above, it was ultimately the archaeological material found by beachcombers that led to
the investigations by Maritime Historian Edward Von der Porter -who had analyzed the porcelain of the San Agustín- and organized the first site visit
with Jack Hunter in the year 1999. So far, it has been concluded that the porcelain collection of 1500 sherds corresponds to a period between 1574 and
1576, placing it in the early part of the route (Von der Porten 2008). This led to the possibility that it could be one of the galleons lost in that
period: Espiritu Santo, San Juanillo, San Felipe or San Antonio, making it very likely that it is the San Felipe of 1576 (Von der Porten 2010). Beside
the rich porcelain and stoneware collection, other materials such as sheets of lead used to cover the hull have been documented - some with the
remains of iron nails that testify to the spanish construction of galleons of the period (Von der Porten 2008:4). Also, wax blocks of up to nine
kilograms, some analyzed in the laboratory to confirm that it is beeswax. These blocks contain important information in the form of three centimeter
diameter holes made by worms. They give a clue as to the formation of the archaeological context as they would have needed to be submerged in the sea
at least a year for the worms to eat the wax (Von der Porten 2010). Thus, the galleon in Baja with all the crew dead ran aground and remained stranded
at least one year in the water until it broke and dispersed the materials on the beach (Von der Porten 2010). Furthermore, other interesting objects
have been collected such as a plate of Chinese cloisonné, a compass gimbal, a sounding lead and a bronze figure of a Fu dog.
http://www.themua.org/collections/files/original/61b274c68e0...
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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BajaNomad
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The Archaeology of Manila Galleons in the American Continent
https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007%2F978-3-030-71524-3
(paid subscription required to access full info - fyi)
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
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David K
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Thank you Doug... A historical mystery solved by Baja Nomad!
It was a bit odd how the San Felipe and San Juanillo wreck debris and location read the same!
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