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bajajoaquin
Junior Nomad
Posts: 58
Registered: 6-28-2011
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I just put on 235/85R16s which are 31.7” according to specs. I would have put on 255s, but that would have required (or strongly recommended) new,
wider wheels. They would have fit with only minor trimming up front. But since I didn’t plan on buying this (I saw it for sale locally and jumped on
it), I really don’t have the budget to be throwing more money at it. Tires, deferred maintenance, rear locker, solar and batteries are pretty much
eating it all up.
I am concerned a bit about tire rubbing on the duals. This is my fourth vehicle with duals, but the first one I’m going to be airing down for off
road. The tire shop insists I have adequate space to air down to 30psi in the rear. I also talked with a shop that makes spacers and their take is
also that I have adequate clearance to go down that far. So I’m going to trust them. I’m going to bring along a hydraulic jack and a good sturdy
base for it as well.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  | | I run 32 inch tires on my Trooper, and I wish they were bigger! With dual rear wheels, you probably are maxed out on the size, and if you "air down"
to get through some sand, the sidewalls will probably rub. |
Do you all remember Art (edm1) and his home-made 4WD van/ motorhome?
Even with front and rear ARB lockers, he would get stuck in the bottomless sand of Shell Island.
Only after additional deflating was he able achieve floatation to drive out. He was so happy to not join the Sea of Cortez! He had duel rear tires.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajajoaquin | Yes, exactly. I key in on the road North to Santa Rosalillita because I have video of my old truck and camper going through the steepest gully section
and it drags the camper bumper. It’s literally at the limit of what that combo can do. This camper is way worse in that regard.
But I knew that going in. It’s really for beach access and getting through the muddy sections that can grow after a rain.
I haven’t had a chance to use it yet, though. I just bought it a little bit ago and have been working on all the deferred maintenance and a few
updates. First trip in it will be in about four weeks. |
Please use the 4WD (High and Low Range) before your trip... make sure the transfer case stays engaged. Know how it works before you need it. They can
pop out of 4WD and that will get you stuck... as it did me when I was piloting the Viva Baja 4WD van in 2001 (a Quigley).
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bajajoaquin
Junior Nomad
Posts: 58
Registered: 6-28-2011
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Do you remember what pressure he had to run to get out?
When I say “beach access” I guess I really don’t mean beach running (although I’d love to go out to the point at Cabo San Quintin, that’s
really not in the cards). I mean more like getting across the soft sandy/silty spots to get to places like this:
[img] [/img]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Tire type (sidewall and plys) as well as vehicle weight have a lot to do with what PSI will give you floatation.
I run my Dyna Pro ATm tires at 34 psi on then highway, drop to 24 psi on dirt roads (to improve the ride and resist sharp rock punctures), and 18 psi
or less on the deep sand... This works because these tires are great in sand and then Tacoma's 'Trac' electronic limited slip is really amazing
compared to earlier Tacomas that had no fancy traction controls.
For most, 15 psi is the go-to sweet spot... but 10 psi almost always works for heavier tires, 2WDs, and of course when 15 psi didn't work.
Now, an extra heavy rig will not need to by that low, especially on the rear tires. When they have a decent sidewall bulge, see what the pressure
is... 20 to 25 psi may work if you normally run 50 psi+.
Try it and if you begin to bog down in sand... Stop and let more air out... Do NOT spin the tires! There is a point that you will get floatation!
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AKgringo
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Posts: 5816
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On my Trooper, I now have BFG 265/75/16 tires that are almost exactly the same height as your 235/85s. They are E-rated, with heavy sidewalls, and I
have been told not to run them as low as I did the lighter weight "RV" tires I had on it before (at least not very far, or fast).
The rims appear to be close to eight inches wide, how wide are your dually rims?
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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bajajoaquin
Junior Nomad
Posts: 58
Registered: 6-28-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Tire type (sidewall and plys) as well as vehicle weight have a lot to do with what PSI will give you floatation.
I run my Dyna Pro ATm tires at 34 psi on then highway, drop to 24 psi on dirt roads (to improve the ride and resist sharp rock punctures), and 18 psi
or less on the deep sand... This works because these tires are great in sand and then Tacoma's 'Trac' electronic limited slip is really amazing
compared to earlier Tacomas that had no fancy traction controls.
For most, 15 psi is the go-to sweet spot... but 10 psi almost always works for heavier tires, 2WDs, and of course when 15 psi didn't work.
Now, an extra heavy rig will not need to by that low, especially on the rear tires. When they have a decent sidewall bulge, see what the pressure
is... 20 to 25 psi may work if you normally run 50 psi+.
Try it and if you begin to bog down in sand... Stop and let more air out... Do NOT spin the tires! There is a point that you will get floatation!
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Right, I get the differences but it’s a point of information for setting expectations. That transvan is probably 11,500lb or 12,500lb depending on
the chassis. It’s significantly lighter than the 14,500lb I’ve got now, but heavier than the 9,000 my old truck and camper was.
I’m going to air down to 30 or 35 psi for the roads to mitigate vibration. I’d be curious what he was running in the dirt and how much lower he
had to go to get unstuck. I know I would be different but it might be a helpful data point to know if he was at 20 or 15…. or 5!
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bajajoaquin
Junior Nomad
Posts: 58
Registered: 6-28-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | On my Trooper, I now have BFG 265/75/16 tires that are almost exactly the same height as your 235/85s. They are E-rated, with heavy sidewalls, and I
have been told not to run them as low as I did the lighter weight "RV" tires I had on it before (at least not very far, or fast).
The rims appear to be close to eight inches wide, how wide are your dually rims? |
I think they’re 6.5” but the tire shop forgot to measure. That’s one of the reasons I didn’t go with 255/85s: I’d have wanted to go to
7.5” wheels and seven new wheels on top of seven new tires was really out of the budget. I’ve talked to the tire shop about my intended use and
pressures and they’re of the opinion that I’m in a good range. I think most of the issue is popping a bead when turning so I would need to be
extra careful if I need to go really low to get unstuck.
I didn’t get my ARB air locker installed, as the high-ratio Dana 80 model was out of stock, but I did get the onboard air in. So if I need to air
down further than is advisable, I’ll be able to air back up again.
But the plan isn’t to go wheeling. The plan is to go camping in places I think I can get into and out of safely.
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3009
Registered: 5-21-2013
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Wheeling with duallys can be interesting.
Have fun
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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I had 245/70R19.5 (34") Load Range F duallies on that motorhome normally at 50psi at the rear, with ARB lockers front and rear. Wow, that was Ken
Cooke helping me!!! I thought 22psi was airing down. I had to deflate to 12psi to get out.
I have since sold 3 motorhomes that I converted to 4x4. I now have a 22ft Class A running on F550 4x4 axles. Sorry, I forgot how to attach photos
already :-(
| Quote: Originally posted by bajajoaquin | Do you remember what pressure he had to run to get out?
When I say “beach access” I guess I really don’t mean beach running (although I’d love to go out to the point at Cabo San Quintin, that’s
really not in the cards). I mean more like getting across the soft sandy/silty spots to get to places like this:
[img][/img] |
[Edited on 10-7-2021 by edm1]
[Edited on 10-7-2021 by edm1]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Art, here is the latest way to attach photos that are over Nomad's limits:
To post photos from your Pictures folder on your computer...
Go to www.Postimages.org, make an album if you want to organize your photos to find them easily in the future (by date or by subject). No cost to use
Postimages.org.
Change the upload setting from "Do not resize my image" to 640x480 (recommended for forums) or 800x600 (max. on Nomad). You click on the little arrow
to see the size choices.
Click "Choose images" and select the photos you want to put on Nomad from your Pictures folder.
Click on the image you want on Nomad and click on "Share" at the top of the screen.
Choose "Hotlinks for forums" (down next to the last one). You can click the little box at the right end of the link and it is now saved on your mouse.
Go to Nomad and paste that link onto the place where you are typing on Nomad. You can put text in below the photo for a caption or your post and if
you double space between photo links (for clarity), you can put several photos and captions in a single post on Nomad. You can click "Preview" on
Nomad to check and see how it will look before posting to the board.
If you need to fix a post after it is done, click on "Edit" along the edge of your post, and change or delete your post. If you edit more than once,
you can delete the previous Edited on tags so only one edit tag will appear after you edit the post.
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bajajoaquin
Junior Nomad
Posts: 58
Registered: 6-28-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by edm1 | I had 245/70R19.5 (34") duallies on that motorhome normally at 50psi at the rear, with ARBs front and rear. Wow, that was Ken Cooke helping me!!! I
thought 22psi was airing down. I had to deflate to 12psi to get out.
I have since sold 3 motorhomes that I converted to 4x4. I now have a 22ft Class A running on F550 4x4 axles. Sorry, I forgot how to attach photos
already :-(
| Quote: Originally posted by bajajoaquin | Do you remember what pressure he had to run to get out?
When I say “beach access” I guess I really don’t mean beach running (although I’d love to go out to the point at Cabo San Quintin, that’s
really not in the cards). I mean more like getting across the soft sandy/silty spots to get to places like this:
[img][/img] |
|
Thanks. I just sent you a U2U before I saw this.
You did indeed have different wheels and tires. I understand that the 19.5s are a lot stiffer than the 16s so I’m likely to have a really different
profile to yours. Last time I had a similar wheel and tire combo was on my Travco. I wish I had that converted to 4x4!
I remember one of your last 4x4s on Craigslist a couple years back. I didn’t jump on it because the bed arrangement wasn’t right for my family.
The Class C has three separate beds so the two kids, my wife and I all get our spaces.
Regardless of the big differences, that info is very helpful, thank you.
I’m putting in a rear ARB as soon as the model I need is back in stock. What’s your opinion on the marginal cost/benefit of the front locker?
I’m not going to follow your lead down the Widowmaker of course, but I do want to maximum chances of not getting stuck in the event of a storm while
I’m down. I’m thinking of the long mud pit that can form by Alejandro’s after a big rain like thanksgiving 2019.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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. . . What’s your opinion on the marginal cost/benefit of the front locker? . . .
What I can tell you is I am NOT going to put a locker at the rear of my 12K lbs 22ft Class A 4x4 motorhome, reason being I have a stout S110 (F550)
axle there with limited slip and a very heavy front (5800 lbs). I will put a selectable locker, though, at the front (Also with F550, Super60
widetrack axle). This arrangement I believe will do the Widowmaker just as well, not that I will attempt it again at my age :-)
Depending on the kind of rear axle/differential you have and if you have a very heavy front weight, consider a similar thought above since you're not
doing Widowmaker stuff anyway.
As far as wheel/tires go, I am a fan of 19.5s, notwithstanding David's disapproval of them :-) LOL. No issues of tires rubbing though.
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3009
Registered: 5-21-2013
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For the front I would suggest a Trutrac limited slip. I am guessing the rears willdo most of the work in sand and the fronts just helping?
Tires and wheels - the best would be SRW 17 or 18 rims with 35 or 37 dia 12.5" section with all terrain tire not mud.
Good luck fitting the SRW in the wheel wells.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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Just trying post image
David, thanks for the postimage guidance. Let's see if it works.
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Art, here is the latest way to attach photos that are over Nomad's limits:
To post photos from your Pictures folder on your computer...
Go to www.Postimages.org, make an album if you want to organize your photos to find them easily in the future (by date or by subject). No cost to use
Postimages.org.
Change the upload setting from "Do not resize my image" to 640x480 (recommended for forums) or 800x600 (max. on Nomad). You click on the little arrow
to see the size choices.
Click "Choose images" and select the photos you want to put on Nomad from your Pictures folder.
Click on the image you want on Nomad and click on "Share" at the top of the screen.
Choose "Hotlinks for forums" (down next to the last one). You can click the little box at the right end of the link and it is now saved on your mouse.
Go to Nomad and paste that link onto the place where you are typing on Nomad. You can put text in below the photo for a caption or your post and if
you double space between photo links (for clarity), you can put several photos and captions in a single post on Nomad. You can click "Preview" on
Nomad to check and see how it will look before posting to the board.
If you need to fix a post after it is done, click on "Edit" along the edge of your post, and change or delete your post. If you edit more than once,
you can delete the previous Edited on tags so only one edit tag will appear after you edit the post.
==============================================================
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bajajoaquin
Junior Nomad
Posts: 58
Registered: 6-28-2011
Member Is Offline
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That’s awesome. No surprise, of course.
It also looks like it’s got really modest rear overhang. That’s the one thing about mine that I don’t much care for. But since the sleeping
arrangements of a Class C were the determining factor, there really wasn’t much option.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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Thanks, here's another, showing rear overhang a bit more. This mh at 22ft is the shortest Class A I have found/seen.
| Quote: Originally posted by bajajoaquin | That’s awesome. No surprise, of course.
It also looks like it’s got really modest rear overhang a bit better. That’s the one thing about mine that I don’t much care for. But since the
sleeping arrangements of a Class C were the determining factor, there really wasn’t much option. |
[Edited on 10-8-2021 by edm1]
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5816
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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Do you travel in snow country often?
I have spent half my life in snow and ice country. My experience there leads me to prefer limited slip over a locking rear axle.
I had a heavy duty Suburban that I put 35" mud terrain tires, and a Detroit locker in the rear. The problem was steering it!
In 4 wheel drive on slick roads it would tend to go in a straight line, pushing the front wheels like a plow. In 2wd with the rear locked up, it
liked to spin out, although the long wheel base was relatively easy to correct.
On beaches and back roads, it was a wonderful tractor!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Traction controls (limited slip systems or locking differentials) are a hoot to compare! I am fortunate that my Tacoma has four levels of 4WD traction
assist. I have not been able to get my Tacoma stuck, and I have tried!!
In 4WD:
1) No traction assist, 'open differentials' (Toyota VSC OFF Mode)
2) Light limited slip (Toyota TRAC [standard] Mode)
3) Locking rear differential (Toyota RR Diff Lock)
4) Strong, nearly locked, limited slip front and rear (Toyota A-TRAC)
The A-TRAC matches tire rotation across the axle when a slip is detected. This allows for easy steering, unlike traditional lockers.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
Member Is Offline
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Not often, but I don't like it to deter me when it happens. Besides, who doesn't have the Alaska Denali/Yukon expedition in his/her bucket list? :-)
My experience, likewise, with the rear locker. Even the front locker retards steering but in a lesser degree; but with a selectable (ie, can be turned
off) locker, it is manageable.
| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | I have spent half my life in snow and ice country. My experience there leads me to prefer limited slip over a locking rear axle.
I had a heavy duty Suburban that I put 35" mud terrain tires, and a Detroit locker in the rear. The problem was steering it!
In 4 wheel drive on slick roads it would tend to go in a straight line, pushing the front wheels like a plow. In 2wd with the rear locked up, it
liked to spin out, although the long wheel base was relatively easy to correct.
On beaches and back roads, it was a wonderful tractor! |
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