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Fatboy
Senior Nomad
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Received a very nice email from the folks over at CAMINOREALBAJA.COM.
I will share it on here when I get a chance.
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Fatboy
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Here is what I sent them....
Hi Genevieve & Kevin,
My daughter and I are looking into hiking a section of the Camino Real in Baja in early January 2022 and was looking for some advice and David Kier
suggested we email you folks.
I have downloaded your KML tracks from your website which will be very helpful.
I was wondering if I could ask the two of you some questions?
We are looking to hike the section between San Borja and San Gertudis and was wondering the following....
How many days would it reasonably take? I know there is a lot of variables just looking for ballpark idea.
Parking and leaving vehicles at the 'trailheads'? We have been to San Borja several times and believe that end is safe and possible, what about at San
Grertudis?
Finally, water sources. I see a couple of H2O waypoints and was wondering if they are reliable year round sources?
Any information will be helpful and also I understand if you guys don't have time to respond.
Thank You
John
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Fatboy
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And here is their response.... I hope they don't mind me posting it here ... but it was a very helpful response and it answered several of my
questions and it confirmed things I had already planned on....
Hello John,
That is great that you two are planning to tackle a section of El Camino Real. In all of our years exploring ECR, we have encountered exactly 0 other
hikers and very few local ranchers. You two will likely be alone for most of the trip.
Have you hiked any of ECR in the past? Some people think that it must be like other trails, but it is not. Much of ECR has had very little use for 170
years. That means that it is mostly overgrown with various plants and the top surface of the trail has eroded away in many places leaving miles of
rocks. We wear full leather boots for the support they give and the protection we get from cactus spines. Also, we wear long leather gloves and each
of us keeps mini-pliers handy to remove cholla clumps. Water is the greatest concern. We have had to carry up to 3 gallons each on some previous
trips. Also, I (Kevin) once came to a well known tinaja (think of a large water basin) on a solo trip and found that it was completely dry. I was
counting on that water to get me to the next source 2 days away.
We are not trying to frighten you away. In fact, we really want other people to get out on the ECR and explore. You are talking about doing a hard
section of the trail and we want to warn you that you should have experience before tackling this segment.
We can recommend several other backpacks along ECR lasting from 3 days to a week that would be great introductions to the trail. These would provide
you with the experience and knowledge to take on the tougher segments.
You have already done the first part in preparation of a trip by downloading the waypoints. We often carry 2 gps units since they will play an
important part in navigating the trail. Without this tool you will often have problems finding the path at all. Keep in mind that ECR is no longer a
continuous trail. You will often walk long distances without seeing any sign of it and then when you do. it could be very subtle!
You ask how long it will take to hike from Santa Gertrudis to San Borja. Since we don't know your hiking speed and what load you'll be carrying on
your back, that is hard to answer. For us, unsupported by mules, it would take a week. Of course, we try to stick to the original mission trail and
that takes extra time and effort.
Santa Gertrudis has been safe for us in the past when we left cars there. In fact, we will be doing this again in December.
Reliable water sources? With the weather changes we are experiencing, we hesitate to say that any water source is totally reliable. We generally make
efforts, when possible, to check out the sources we plan to use before backpacking a certain section. Sometimes we plant water and food containers
along the route. Much of the trail from Santa Gertrudis to San Borja is remote and very tough to check out the sources. We have not been in that area
for a while and have not heard about the water availability. Ranches are a safe bet, but once you leave Rancho Los Corrales and start heading farther
back into the mountains, there are no more active ranches for quite a while.
We hope that you can get something useful out of this reply.
Take care,
Genevieve and Kevin
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Fatboy
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A couple of things they said fit perfectly with what I was thinking.
I was planning on TWO gps units along with some phones, but when it really matters I trust the ruggedness and reliability of my GPS over the phones
any day.
They said pliers for cholla.... already had experience with that and agree 100%.
Depending on what I come up with water sources, I had planned on packing at least 2 gallons of water, with more being considered.
There is one dirt road I was considering stashing some water at.
They said a week, not sure if they mean 5 day work week or 7 day week. Was thinking 5 or 6 days already so close there.
The confirmed that Santa Gertrudis (my misspelling in my original) should be safe to leave a vehicle at.
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John M
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Location: California High Desert
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gps
John, the phone gps with a back-up is great.
No doubt with your research you've found how to use gps without internet. The one we use is GAIA - We have it on an android tablet as a back up to our
Lowrance vehicle mounted unit. I made an acquaintance of a fellow who downloaded a route using GAIA (a 130 mile trek) onto his phone and used it
reliably for the entire distance. Keeping the phone charged for a week or so is another challenge to deal with. GAIA for Baja? not certain which maps
are best but it has been discussed on Nomad before. I think "Paul W" knows about that. With a paid subscription to GAIA you have more layers available
- not just the topo which comes with the free GAIA membership.
Thanks for posting Kevin's reply - solid information.
John M
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PaulW
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A single big screen phone with your trail and map installed surely should be adequate. Get a Lion battery pack to recharge your phone. The one I have
has two connections, usb-c and lightning. If these connections don’t work for your stuff, then buy an adapter. I have an adapter to charge my
handheld multiband radio from that same power pack.
I am pretty new to the phone gps, but I think most all the maps can be loaded with your track to follow. For sure Gaia works. Lots of folks do map
with track and no layers. I like a minimum of a topo layer and road layer.
Study up on how to get water from the local plants (cactus) like many desert hikers do.
BTW the newer vehicles have Apple play of Android and use the same details as your phone and has on a bigger screen for your driving. No more stand
alone gps.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Super intel!
Kevin has always been a good sport about sharing! When I asked him if he would like his waypoints used to plot the trail on the new Benchmark Baja
Atlas, he was all 'thumbs up'!
About tinajas, often they appear dry but the water is just below the surface (hopefully). You may see evidence of animal digging... sometimes called a
'coyote well'. Animals smell hidden water and instinctively dig down to it.
I saw this at one famous tinaja near the Golfo El Camino Real, Tinaja de Santa María. Arthur North wrote about it in his 1910 Camp and Camino book
(misnaming it Santa Marita, as I recall). Baja Atlas page 47, E-7. I was there twice, and it was dry on top, but there was coyote wells there. Neal
Johns was with me the first time (2001) and mentioned that feature. No, we did not dig further to see water.
Photo from my second visit, New Years 2003... My son is coming back from the tinaja on his motor bike. The tinaja (de Santa María) is at the base of
the boulder, in the sand pile... a waterfall here during rain storms is how the tinaja is recharged. The pointy mountain (hazy) to the west, is Cerro
La Sandia (1,795 meters), Baja Atlas page 46, E-6.
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David K
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Speaking of phone GPS, the digital Benchmark map ($19.99) is on the free Avenza app. It will show your GPS location on the map, which accurately has
the El Camino Real (ECR) routes (from Kevin and Genevieve) plotted.
https://www.avenzamaps.com/maps/1250162/baja-california-atla...
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PaulW
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Trouble is Avenza wont work with the phone map apps for use with apple play or Android. Never the less installed in your phone is a winner.
Highly recommended.
[Edited on 11-3-2021 by PaulW]
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4x4abc
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Mood: happy - always
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just a reminder
Harald Pietschmann
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Fatboy
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Quote: Originally posted by John M  | John, the phone gps with a back-up is great.
No doubt with your research you've found how to use gps without internet. The one we use is GAIA - We have it on an android tablet as a back up to our
Lowrance vehicle mounted unit. I made an acquaintance of a fellow who downloaded a route using GAIA (a 130 mile trek) onto his phone and used it
reliably for the entire distance. .... I think "Paul W" knows about that. With a paid subscription to GAIA you have more layers available - not just
the topo which comes with the free GAIA membership.
Thanks for posting Kevin's reply - solid information.
John M |
My concerns is ruggedness, we will have a phones and we have a paid subscription to GAIA already. With that said I am bringing the Garmin GPS's units
for peace of mind.
I used the GAIA and the phone on some recent hikes including a 75 miler through Glacier National Park and it was nice and had lots of cool features.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
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1884 Map
Here is the Santa Gertrudis to San Borja area with the Camino Real as a main route of travel (pre-automobile).
The rest of the map is very interesting and shows how old many of the place names are.
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John Harper
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I presume you're bringing some kind of satellite emergency device, like a Spot or InReach? Since I'm always hiking/backpacking for trout, I don't
worry about water sources. But, it sounds like that is an issue not to be "winged", even in January. Dehydration is a serious issue, as that family
up in Northern California succumbed on a day hike!
Sounds like a great adventure for sure, I wish you great luck and great experiences! You'll definitely be one of few to walk that trail since, who
knows?
John
[Edited on 11-3-2021 by John Harper]
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Fatboy
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Harper | I presume you're bringing some kind of satellite emergency device, like a Spot or InReach? Since I'm always hiking/backpacking for trout, I don't
worry about water sources. But, it sounds like that is an issue not to be "winged", even in January. Dehydration is a serious issue, as that family
up in Northern California succumbed on a day hike
John
[Edited on 11-3-2021 by John Harper] |
I do not own an emergency locator... that family along the Merced river that you mention seems odd to me but who knows......
Some folks are taking the 'winging' it comment way too far 
my comment was "Going to do what I usually do on these trips and just wing it,"
What I usually do on these trips is get all the information I can and then if I decide to go, I go. I am "winging" it because some of the sh!t I do
involves no trails in remote areas with no permanent, reliable water sources and many times only 1 water source is shown in dozens of square miles.
So that is the "winging" part of it, little to no hard data, just enough info to either believe it will work out or put me in serious trouble and that
is where my back up plans come in to play or if the risk is too large I call it off.
I am not naive to back country, off trail, desert travel in areas with very little water.
So, please, take that comment in context.
I get it, it is dangerous, there is no help if something goes wrong, there is very few sources of water and they are not sure bets that they will even
have water in them, not to mention all the other hazards and that it could KILL me.
Please, helpful advice is greatly appreciated, even warnings of the dangers are very helpful but.....
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Skipjack Joe
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I have been photographing that area quite a bit. There has been a severe drought in the last couple of years. The normally green agaves are all
withered and yellow, barely hanging on. Some of the smaller variety of desert plants are just dried up husks. Usually I see cattle hoof prints all
around tinajas. If Paulina says that all the free ranging cattle in the area have died that tells me the tinajas are dry because that's about the only
thing that would account for that. That would be cause for concern. However, this was all true through the beginning of summer and I seem to remember
some storms this September. Things could have changed.
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PaulW
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fboy,
You really should carry a locator. I take my inreach everywhere I go. There are all kinds of circumstances when it is good to contact someone.
You can turn off the monthly charges when you are not out in the wilderness.
One gps device with the map with your track and a charger is plenty. 2 gps's means more power used for the charger with no value added.
Been kicking around Baja for many years and never had a handheld gps fail. Trouble is if you leave it on for many days in a row then you need a
charger. Now switching to an iphone and expect the same reliability.
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wilderone
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You really must read Edie's book. She describes the "trail" that has not been used in decades all overgrown with cactus - her clothes got ripped up,
etc. It will give you a sense of what to prepare for - even if you don't encounter it, you should be prepared. And you mentioned, "burro] would be a
good move for safety of having extra water". Burros have personalities and can be stubborn and run off and get sick and need food/water. It would be
great to have a burro for food and water, but if you do this, I'd suggest at least a couple weeks to pick one out and learn how to handle it. Graham
can help you on this, I'm sure. Sounds like a great trip.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Edie called me just over an hour ago about something else, so I did tell her about Fatboy's quest. She is more than happy to communicate with him and
I will send him her email.
She said getting guides at the ranches is critical to success and survival. Fatboy, I will get you the info in the morning.
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Fatboy
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | | I have been photographing that area quite a bit. There has been a severe drought in the last couple of years. The normally green agaves are all
withered and yellow, barely hanging on. Some of the smaller variety of desert plants are just dried up husks. Usually I see cattle hoof prints all
around tinajas. If Paulina says that all the free ranging cattle in the area have died that tells me the tinajas are dry because that's about the only
thing that would account for that. That would be cause for concern. However, this was all true through the beginning of summer and I seem to remember
some storms this September. Things could have changed. |
That is not good news, for me and for the locals....
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Fatboy
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| Quote: Originally posted by PaulW | fboy,
You really should carry a locator. I take my inreach everywhere I go. There are all kinds of circumstances when it is good to contact someone.
You can turn off the monthly charges when you are not out in the wilderness.
One gps device with the map with your track and a charger is plenty. 2 gps's means more power used for the charger with no value added.
Been kicking around Baja for many years and never had a handheld gps fail. Trouble is if you leave it on for many days in a row then you need a
charger. Now switching to an iphone and expect the same reliability. |
I agree with the fact having contact at almost any time and place is safer.
As to the 2 GPS's units along with smart phones with mapping apps, it is certainly overkill but really doesnt add much weight but adds a level of
safety that I would want on a trip like this.
I have owned and used GPS units since 1995 and have only 1 failure in 25 years. In 10 years of cell phones I have had several fail. My GPS are Garmin
Etrex, light, durable and will run for several days on one set of AA batteries.
Plus folks over at CAMINOREALBAJA.COM also use 2 GPS units.
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