4x4abc
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Baja roads and Baja ranchos
to understand the conflict of ranchers vs today's travelers
we have to look back in history
in the old days the trail/road would lead in and out of a rancho
just like in villages and towns
in the old days visitors were a welcome event for ranchers
they would bring news and pesos
the ranchos were a welcome sight for visitors
they provided water and food (sometimes gas) for a few pesos
they would provide information
then everything went into mega drive on this planet
a few visiting vehicles turned into traffic
hordes of tourists in a hurry created dust and noise
there was no more exchange
you probably noticed that few ranchos are on the new roads
they go around the ranchos (same as in towns and cities with ring roads)
but in some cases a bypass wasn't possible or has not been done yet
so the annoyed ranchers lock their formerly open gates
in effect blocking access to wide regions
the ranchers beyond the first rancho with locked gates love that
once the early racetrack got paved and the fast crowd started using ranch roads ranchers started putting up gates that blocked more than just a ranch
and when the UTVs started playing race, the ranchers had it
they put padlocks on the gates
below is an example of the original road (red) going through a ranch (Los Sauces)
I got an earful when I opened the gate 20 years ago - the rancher was angry
then a bypass road was built
still close to the rancho and he comes out swearing every time I pass
he would fit well in this forum
in areas where the ranchers are still friendly, I make an effort and leave the fast new road and visit
bringing gifts like lighters, brushes and cloth for embroidering
they are the kindest, sweetest people in all of Baja
bypass around Rancho Los Sauces (yellow) old road in red
strong gates are visible on both ends of the rancho
ranchers still love to be visited - bring simple gifts
Señor Amador did not let go of his new brush
[Edited on 3-27-2022 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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Nice post Harald. Good info.
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surfhat
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Thanks 4b4 for your perspective.
For some reason a thought came to mind after reading your insights.
A few years ago on a trip to Cuevas del Carmen with my favorite cave painting guide Zihul from GN., we came across a bunch of Orange County fireman at
the base of the mountain that we had just explored.
One of my friends and his wife was a retired fireman from my north SD county area and they instantly had shared experiences that made them brothers in
arms, so to speak.
On our drive back to GN, there was these same fireman's trash thrown out all over the washboard road that was not there when we drove in. It was
difficult to not want to stop and pick up every beer bottle and plastic trash that they left behind. If I had been the driver, I would have retrieved
as much as I could. There was hardly a stretch of that washboard road that did not have their stuff tossed out without a care.
BTW, there were no other visitors on the road that morning other than these fireman in their rented fun vehicles. ATV's and dune buggies.
It was almost painful to come across their tossed out trash for most of the road back to the paved highway.
How easy would it have been for them to not leave a trace of their visit? I don't get why some have such a disrespect of the environment. Leaving no
trace has always been my motto.
Pack your trash! Rant over.
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JZ
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Quote: Originally posted by surfhat  | Thanks 4b4 for your perspective.
For some reason a thought came to mind after reading your insights.
A few years ago on a trip to Cuevas del Carmen with my favorite cave painting guide Zihul from GN., we came across a bunch of Orange County fireman at
the base of the mountain that we had just explored.
One of my friends and his wife was a retired fireman from my north SD county area and they instantly had shared experiences that made them brothers in
arms, so to speak.
On our drive back to GN, there was these same fireman's trash thrown out all over the washboard road that was not there when we drove in. It was
difficult to not want to stop and pick up every beer bottle and plastic trash that they left behind. If I had been the driver, I would have retrieved
as much as I could. There was hardly a stretch of that washboard road that did not have their stuff tossed out without a care.
BTW, there were no other visitors on the road that morning other than these fireman in their rented fun vehicles. ATV's and dune buggies.
It was almost painful to come across their tossed out trash for most of the road back to the paved highway.
How easy would it have been for them to not leave a trace of their visit? I don't get why some have such a disrespect of the environment. Leaving no
trace has always been my motto.
Pack your trash! Rant over.
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That is pretty rare to see. Definitely not close to the norm.
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David K
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Given the general good nature of first responders, was there any chance a trash bag fell out of their vehicle and was spread by the wind?
I would hate to think these (or any) tourists would do what I have seen some 'locals' do to the desert, at off road races or beach holidays... shame
shame.
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Given the general good nature of first responders, was there any chance a trash bag fell out of their vehicle and was spread by the wind?
I would hate to think these (or any) tourists would do what I have seen some 'locals' do to the desert, at off road races or beach holidays... shame
shame. |
Was thinking this as well regarding a trash bag that accidentally got ripped open or something.
And yes, I see locals being less vigilant about littering than tourists.
[Edited on 3-27-2022 by JZ]
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4163
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by surfhat | Thanks 4b4 for your perspective.
For some reason a thought came to mind after reading your insights.
A few years ago on a trip to Cuevas del Carmen with my favorite cave painting guide Zihul from GN., we came across a bunch of Orange County fireman at
the base of the mountain that we had just explored.
One of my friends and his wife was a retired fireman from my north SD county area and they instantly had shared experiences that made them brothers in
arms, so to speak.
On our drive back to GN, there was these same fireman's trash thrown out all over the washboard road that was not there when we drove in. It was
difficult to not want to stop and pick up every beer bottle and plastic trash that they left behind. If I had been the driver, I would have retrieved
as much as I could. There was hardly a stretch of that washboard road that did not have their stuff tossed out without a care.
BTW, there were no other visitors on the road that morning other than these fireman in their rented fun vehicles. ATV's and dune buggies.
It was almost painful to come across their tossed out trash for most of the road back to the paved highway.
How easy would it have been for them to not leave a trace of their visit? I don't get why some have such a disrespect of the environment. Leaving no
trace has always been my motto.
Pack your trash! Rant over.
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That is pretty rare to see. Definitely not close to the norm.
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in my limited experience (35 years US and Baja trails)
that is the norm
clean travelers are the exception
Harald Pietschmann
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bajatrailrider
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My first off road run Baja 1976 one of Melings lived next to me in Rancho Park (west LA). never seen a American throw trash out. Mexicans yes of
course not all but mostly yes. My mex amigos right in front of me . Throw trash on beach I take bag out of truck pick it up. They feel bad start to
help now they do not do it any more .I ride with many off road moto and buggy guys EX fireman . From So cal never every they throw out trash.
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider | | My first off road run Baja 1976 one of Melings lived next to me in Rancho Park (west LA). never seen a American throw trash out. Mexicans yes of
course not all but mostly yes. My mex amigos right in front of me . Throw trash on beach I take bag out of truck pick it up. They feel bad start to
help now they do not do it any more .I ride with many off road moto and buggy guys EX fireman . From So cal never every they throw out trash.
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Thank you for being a good ecology teacher! It will take time. The USA was pretty messy before the 1970s, Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute movement.
Remember the Indian with a tear rolling down his face after seeing trash thrown from a moving car?
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wilderone
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Not so much "travelers" IMO - but those in offroad vehicle drivers who want a dirt road to drive around in circles, aimlessly, just hearing their
engine - they think that's "traveling". You see the scars they've left - forever - on hillsides (coming off the 15 to the Adalanto 395 highway is a
gruesome example). Or violating "no motorized vehicles" signs on public land. Same mentality - there is no respect for property. Those people need
to dial down their aggressiveness for a dirt road. The Californio ranchero of Baja California is a treasure, living history of the southwest. Now
forced to put up locked gates - we all lose.
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by wilderone | | You see the scars they've left - forever - on hillsides (coming off the 15 to the Adalanto 395 highway is a gruesome example).
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Yes the land there was really torn up, but they must have closed off some areas, as some parts look disused today. Of course it will take decades for
the scars to heal.
John
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bajatrailrider
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yes agreed some bad people everywhere just dont call out all off roaders . As we come across hikers campers horse back riders . Leave there trash so I
dont blame all my rigs but motos . Have trash bags even at hot spring . Hikers campers leave soap razor blade with handle dirty towels . Old blankets
pants shirts Hot spring rancho has big trash can . No too lazy to walk 10min to put trash in.
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wilderone
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No, not everyone. As for trash, I try to leave an area in better condition than when I arrived. Read a AAA article today about the startling increase
in RV sales and travel since mid-covid and continuing. Article said that campgrounds are difficult to book, National Parks are crowded like never
before. The thing is, I would bet many of these travelers are not aware of the some of etiquette expected in some locales. Expecting waste dumps or
?? No effort to reduce trash or maybe even pack it out. Was at a hotsprings in Nevada not long ago, put my tent up about 60 yards across the road
from a tub, and this large motorhome drives in, pulls up right on the edge of the cliff overlooking the tub. And stays overnight - lights a cooking
fire - smoke billowing as I tried to relax in the hotspring tub
about 10 yards from them. Ja k a ss Did he not wonder why the other 10 or so campers were not on that bluff?
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surfhat
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David, there was no tossed large trash bag that split open. They hardly bothered with anything other than the thin plastic grocery carry bags on
occasion, but mostly tossed beer cans and bottles spread fairly evenly along twenty miles of washboard road back to the pavement.
I have always respected first responders and that continues. I have to believe this behavior was an aberration. They were having a raucous time at the
bottom of the mountain when we came down. I am glad I didn't see that spot after they left once I saw what they left behind on the drive out.
Let's hope next time, they have a great time and pack their trash. Baja deserves our respect and this was not that. Hope springs eternal.
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John Harper
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It's 2022, not 1822. There is no excuse for littering.
John
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bajatrailrider
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Agree John to make matters worse. Twice on motos we go around corner . Car parked trash dumped out owners hiding in brush. So they even know its bad
do anyway. We do not hunt them down as who knows if armed.
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Mulege Canuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | to understand the conflict of ranchers vs today's travelers
we have to look back in history
in the old days the trail/road would lead in and out of a rancho
just like in villages and towns
in the old days visitors were a welcome event for ranchers
they would bring news and pesos
the ranchos were a welcome sight for visitors
they provided water and food (sometimes gas) for a few pesos
they would provide information
then everything went into mega drive on this planet
a few visiting vehicles turned into traffic
hordes of tourists in a hurry created dust and noise
there was no more exchange
you probably noticed that few ranchos are on the new roads
they go around the ranchos (same as in towns and cities with ring roads)
but in some cases a bypass wasn't possible or has not been done yet
so the annoyed ranchers lock their formerly open gates
in effect blocking access to wide regions
the ranchers beyond the first rancho with locked gates love that
once the early racetrack got paved and the fast crowd started using ranch roads ranchers started putting up gates that blocked more than just a ranch
and when the UTVs started playing race, the ranchers had it
they put padlocks on the gates
below is an example of the original road (red) going through a ranch (Los Sauces)
I got an earful when I opened the gate 20 years ago - the rancher was angry
then a bypass road was built
still close to the rancho and he comes out swearing every time I pass
he would fit well in this forum
in areas where the ranchers are still friendly, I make an effort and leave the fast new road and visit
bringing gifts like lighters, brushes and cloth for embroidering
they are the kindest, sweetest people in all of Baja
bypass around Rancho Los Sauces (yellow) old road in red
strong gates are visible on both ends of the rancho
ranchers still love to be visited - bring simple gifts
Señor Amador did not let go of his new brush
[Edited on 3-27-2022 by 4x4abc] |
The rancheros in the mountains above Mulege are great people. Bringing gifts is a good thing to do. I bring old chainsaws I fix up. Hopefully they
will get better a sharpening the chains in the future. If you go up there, use channel 22 on your marine VHF radio to communicate with the Ranchos.
It is like there version of “ Facebook “. It is good to have incase you breakdown or need help in any other way.
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