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JDCanuck
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When you go off grid solar and then oversize your panels and undersize the batteries as we have, your whole paradigm changes significantly. You find a
whole lot of wasted (unused) afternoon and evening supply and try to find uses for it, while at the same time trying to reduce overnight use. We have
installed timers on our 3 hot water tanks to try to balance out loads, and are looking at lowering the wattage of the elements if we need further
overnight reductions.
This is why we are anxious to find an EV to use some of that surplus in later daytime periods and reduce our gasoline use. One that feeds back to the
system overnight would be ideal and appears to be right around the corner thanks to Ford Engineers. Imagine if that was adopted nation wide and the
effect it would have on the grid demands, in addition to supplying emergency power to homes in blackouts.
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Udo
Elite Nomad
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Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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Mil gracias for the updated information, JD!
I'll check with my solar person to see how many batteries we will need for 6000 watt system. We will be adding 12 more 450-watt panels (5400 watts).
These will be used exclusively to run the A/Cs (one 220V and two 110V), plus a fridge, a stand-up freezer, a wine fridge, and a small window A/C for
the wine room.
Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  | Udo: Lithium batteries have come down in price so far it seems unreasonable to use lead acid anymore. We can draw ours down 80 percent every day and
still get over 6000 cycles out of them. With lead acid you would have to almost double the rated size, draw them down no more than 50% and then expect
5 years at that draw rate before you had to replace them.
We have 6 of these batteries in a rack and we have never needed more for our fully electric 2800 sq ft house. Cost including installation labour was
10000 USD, would be cheaper now.
https://www.vpsolar.com/en/product/pylontech-us3000-lithium-...
[Edited on 6-23-2022 by JDCanuck]
[Edited on 6-23-2022 by JDCanuck] |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by Udo | Mil gracias for the updated information, JD!
I'll check with my solar person to see how many batteries we will need for 6000 watt system. We will be adding 12 more 450-watt panels (5400 watts).
These will be used exclusively to run the A/Cs (one 220V and two 110V), plus a fridge, a stand-up freezer, a wine fridge, and a small window A/C for
the wine room.
| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Udo: Lithium batteries have come down in price so far it seems unreasonable to use lead acid anymore. We can draw ours down 80 percent every day and
still get over 6000 cycles out of them. With lead acid you would have to almost double the rated size, draw them down no more than 50% and then expect
5 years at that draw rate before you had to replace them.
We have 6 of these batteries in a rack and we have never needed more for our fully electric 2800 sq ft house. Cost including installation labour was
10000 USD, would be cheaper now.
https://www.vpsolar.com/en/product/pylontech-us3000-lithium-...
[Edited on 6-23-2022 by JDCanuck]
[Edited on 6-23-2022 by JDCanuck] |
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Yikes, both of you guys live large.
Small is beautiful, less is more. Conserve.
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JDCanuck
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Udo: I had second thoughts after I posted that and also Paul's response. If you seldom use your solar demand..(less than half time occupancy?) and
draw down your batteries less frequently, the cheapest initial option may be your best bet, as battery and storage technology is changing rapidly and
much better options may open up in the near future. We undersized our batteries in our design, and less than two years later it's becoming the right
choice. Performance wise, I have no complaints on those batteries tho, as they have performed flawlessly as long as we restrain our use overnight.
This reminds me of the development of personal computers in the past decades and how rapidly technology improvements made top-of-the-line obsolete.
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RFClark
Super Nomad
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Off Grid Homes are more complex if you expect the same level of performance you had when you lived on the grid.(the grid people are discovering that
the grid in California is down quite often these days so this applies to them too!)
We have neighbors who still run 12V inverter systems! They run a few lights and use gravity or a 12V RV pump for water pressure. Some still have
propane fringes Those people head north when it gets hot. They either use AGM batteries or pay someone to water their batteries over the hot wether!
If they come down during hot weather they run a small generator at night for a window AC in the BR. They b-tch about how hot and humid it is!
The climate is getting warmer and energy costs money! Ruing a propane inverter generator to AC our house costs about $4/hr for propane and at least
$1/hr for maintenance and replacement. That gets you 7KW of power peak and 3KW average. If you are carful that’s enough to run the AC, a flat screen
TV, led lights and a microwave or dishwasher. ( dishwashers require water pressure so also a water pump!) 3 hours a night is average so $15/day or
$450/month in the hot weather. You also need at least a 10 cubic ft fridge but cheap efficient fridges are common so that’s not a problem. We have a
large propane tank and get deliveries to our house.
You still need an inverter system to run stuff the rest of the time! Over the last 30 years we have moved from running a generator to 12V, 24V and now
48V inverters. We started with lead acid RV batteries and now use Li Ion batteries!
48V inverters and Li Ion batteries replace running the generator in sunny weather. 220V appliances for AC and other large loads complete the system.
The payback for the system is at least $450/month in hot weather and probably $250 the rest of the year.
StarLink is the other key component as it finally allows phone and internet service off the grid too! $110/mo seems like a lot but Viasat plus Dish TV
are about double that or more!
Other people should share their experiences too!
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JDCanuck
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SFandH: Yeah, we kindof overdid it when the peso plummeted and oversized what began as a simple 2-3 bedroom casa. It's the 1 foot thing you get caught
up in when you design a home for a family of ten to gather in. We now have two separate living areas with a central gathering area, with two kitchens
instead of the one we originally planned on. What were we thinking?
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5807
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Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
This reminds me of the development of personal computers in the past decades and how rapidly technology improvements made top-of-the-line obsolete.
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I like to stay on the cutting edge of technology. That is one of the reasons I bought my 1999 Isuzu Trooper last year.
It not only has a cassette tape player, there is something called a CD player that I can use where there is no AM radio signal!
All I need now is a solar panel on top of the Trooper.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
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We have two separate houses each with its own system. We have an inter-tie and a common generator. Since we have propane we use demand point of use
hot water to save propane.
[Edited on 6-25-2022 by RFClark]
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
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RFClark: I have costed the entire off grid solar system including 13kw backup(never needed it yet) as a percentage of the entire cost to build, and it
came out to 15% extra, something I can easily live with considering the added reliability of power we now enjoy as well as zero cost for grid power
and some excess to reduce or possibly eliminate vehicle gasoline costs in the future. It will only get cheaper as time goes on.
Reliable water supplies i think are far more worrisome for most in the future. My daughter in Salt Lake tells me they are restricted in the rainfall
they are allowed to capture by their community laws.
[Edited on 7-23-2022 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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AKGringo: I have a very lightly used Beta machine if you are interested....cheap!
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RFClark
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JD,
If you have electricity you can collect water from the air and recycle your used water! We already use our gray water for plants.
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | JD,
If you have electricity you can collect water from the air and recycle your used water! We already use our gray water for plants.
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Interesting concept, RFClark. I never considered running all the air conditioning drains to the septico. Humidity is exceptionally high there, do you
have suggestions on how we could extract some useful water efficiently?
We do plan to recycle engineered septico as treated water for courtyard plantings irrigation, at present it pumps out to the ground through a hose
that we keep repositioning and produces clumps of greenery at the discharge as we shift it around. The new bushes seem to be self supporting once
established. I now regret also separating the grey water septic from the black as they do in Europe for irrigation use directly.
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RFClark
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JD,
The new 4KW of panels with a 48V 6KW 220 inverter and 9KW of batteries cost about $8K installed. Our base load with is about 120W plus a programable
40W garage fan.
We collect our AC water in 5 Gal buckets to use on our Trees and plants. At this time of year we’re collecting about 10 Gal on windy day and 5 Gal
on calm days. From 25 - 40 KW Hrs of Solar. If you have extra electricity you could add a dehumidifier outdoors and collect another 3-4 Gal a day from
an 800W unit. Since it exhausts warm dry air you don't want it inside in the summer!
We have a filter system on our gray water mostly to remove food to keep it from plugging up the drip system.
[Edited on 6-27-2022 by RFClark]
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Udo
Elite Nomad
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Of course not!
| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Sorry SFandH: I decided I was opening a whole other can of worms when we are still trying to get on top of this one. This is not an Electrical
Engineering site. |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6321
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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This really has been an interesting and informative thread, Appreciations to everyone that has contributed so far.
It will be worth printing the entire thread when completed.
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
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Udo: There is a whole lot of practical information out there if you can just get people to share it. I was especially impressed with Harald's place on
my brief stay there and highly recommend to fellow Nomads they try to spend some time there before he sells the place. Nothing beats decades of
practical experience and seeking lo cost solutions to complicated problems.
I myself tend to over complicate issues and go searching for the latest commercially engineered solutions when there's often a very simple way of
dealing with it.
Based on your panels' sizing I assume you are using the newer bi-facial panels from Canadian Solar, am I right? About the same ratings as those i had
installed, but mine are from a different manufacturer.
[Edited on 6-27-2022 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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Gray Water filter Installed
The inlet is on the left side.
1st section: sand trap and bacteria digester
Center: Filters
Right: gravity output and drip system pump
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | The inlet is on the left side.
1st section: sand trap and bacteria digester
Center: Filters
Right: gravity output and drip system pump
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What is the source of the grey water? Laundry, tubs, showers and sinks? Or is there rainwater and runoff in there as well? In any case...looks very
impressive and I may use that design in my rainwater collectors. I am wondering why you felt it necessary to be concerned about the bacteria
digesting issue if you are using it for root level drip irrigation? Thanks
[Edited on 6-27-2022 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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The source is everything except toilets, no rain water as there’s either too little or occasionally way too much. Since food washes down the drain
rather than allow it to collect I added aquarium bacteria balls and course gravel to the 1st stage. Seems to work as there are no bad smells from the
system after years of use. It’s built out of 1/4” ABS sheet. It required a 4’X8’ sheet. Filter pack from eBay. Pumps have been a problem. The
cheap ones don't last!
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RFClark
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Here’s a link to an article on average home electrical usage. Their calculations are similar to my actual results.
https://blog.ecoflow.com/en/how-much-energy-does-an-average-...
These people also make a turnkey off the grid system. They sell the components too.
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