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bajaric
Senior Nomad
Posts: 607
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Neat project, thanks for letting us follow along.
Not to be snarky, but with all the finish work needed to transform corrugated metal into smooth concrete surfaces why not just start with concrete
block?
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
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I've been wondering the same thing.
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RFClark
Super Nomad
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The fact that concrete block is widely used in Mexico does not mean it is the best of building materials. In our community (Rancho Nuevo) all of the
homes have several coats of cement applied on the exterior and the smarter people have it on the interior walls as well.
Block has a lot of thermal mass, retains moisture and is a lousy insulator. Our part of Mexico has reasonable temperatures but high humidities and a
high solar load.
Climate control in uninsulated block homes uses a lot of energy for a variety of reasons. In daytime direct solar heating is the biggest source of
energy consumption followed by air exchange and relative humidity.
Proper insulation is more complicated then just insulate the interior walls. Following a systems approach exterior paint, exterior insulation and
air/vapor barrier on the outside of the block followed by more insulation and drywall or cement on the inside painted with waterproof paint are
required. The resulting wall is 10” thick.
An equal or better result can be obtained using a container or structural steel walls with a 4” total wall thickness. This results in more usable
interior floor space, much lower air exchange and less humidity penetration.
If you have solar not CFE doing more at night than having an AC in the bedroom is difficult. Interior BR walls also require insulation. Again steel
walls are 4” thick control humidity penetration and air exchange.
We can cool or heat (in Winter) and reduce humidity in the whole house from 8:00 -18:00 by which time the temperature has dropped and a breeze has
come up (most nights). At night we can cool the BRs from stored electricity which often is not necessary.
The above is my opinion but is supported by experiance here in Mexico.
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AKgringo
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In the event of a typhoon, or earthquake, I think your construction will ride it out better than a block home with the same configuration.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
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AK,
We hope so.
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monoloco
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Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  | | In the event of a typhoon, or earthquake, I think your construction will ride it out better than a block home with the same configuration.
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We've been through countless hurricanes here in BCS over the last 30 years, and I've never seen a properly
constructed concrete block structure damaged beyond some blown out windows.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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RFClark
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monoloco,
“Properly constructed” is a consideration. Then there is the problem of high winds blowing water through the joints in the blocks.
The risk of wind damage wasn’t the primary reason for our choice of materials. An insulated block wall is about 10” thick unless you use the newer
wall systems that incorporate foam. Those walls are about 8” thick. Our walls are insulated and 4” thick.
The “R” factor for our 4” walls is equal to or better than the other systems and the air leakage is lower. That was our primary consideration.
A secondary consideration was “blown out windows” which is also hard on the contents. Our windows all have steel frames and steel shutters
attached to those steel frames. The likelihood of a blow out below 110mph is low. The likelihood of impact damage is also low.
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pacificobob
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Steel boxes are well known for comfort in hot climates.
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Don Pisto
Super Nomad
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like LBJ? 
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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RFClark
Super Nomad
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Guys,
Concrete boxes are renowned for their comfort in hot climates! That’s why those who own them leave for a few months in summer. They’re also cold
and more expensive to heat in the winter.
That said, you’ve got your concrete boxes and I’ve got an insulated steel and concrete box. So we both have what we want. We also saved enough
floor space with 4” walls to have a 3rd bathroom (60 sq ft)!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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Boxes (houses) are cooler when roof has deep eaves
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | Guys,
Concrete boxes are renowned for their comfort in hot climates! That’s why those who own them leave for a few months in summer. They’re also cold
and more expensive to heat in the winter.
That said, you’ve got your concrete boxes and I’ve got an insulated steel and concrete box. So we both have what we want. We also saved enough
floor space with 4” walls to have a 3rd bathroom (60 sq ft)! |
Some leave for a few months because they can afford to do so. I enjoy Alaska in summer. Our mex home has large shade trees, and 13 foot ceilings...
very comfortable.
[Edited on 8-25-2023 by pacificobob]
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RFClark
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PB,
Ours is comfortable. We can live there all year or travel. It’s easy and inexpensive to cool or heat. Because of the thiner walls we have room for
an extra bath.
Between the solar and reusing the gray water it has a very small environmental footprint. Because of the type of construction it uses far less cement,
making it green as well.
It works for us!
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
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"Then there is the problem of high winds blowing water through the joints in the blocks."
??? My concrete block house in an area which gets heavy rain for months in a row and where we have had 2 hurricanes in the 20 years I've lived in it,
has never had water "blow through the walls". Nor have I ever heard of that happening in any of my friend's concrete block homes.
Nor is it cold in cold weather- the daytime sun heats the block walls during the day, but not enough to make it uncomfortably hot inside, and as long
as I close the windows and doors before it gets cold when the sun goes down, it retains the warmth during the night.
Nor do I "escape" in the summer.
It's fine for you to think your house construction is wonderful, but unnecessary to come up with untrue comments about other types of construction to
prove that yours is superior.
[Edited on 8-25-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 8-25-2023 by surabi]
[Edited on 8-25-2023 by surabi]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17380
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Location: San Diego
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | Guys,
Concrete boxes are renowned for their comfort in hot climates! That’s why those who own them leave for a few months in summer. They’re also cold
and more expensive to heat in the winter.
That said, you’ve got your concrete boxes and I’ve got an insulated steel and concrete box. So we both have what we want. We also saved enough
floor space with 4” walls to have a 3rd bathroom (60 sq ft)! |
Yes, we know you love your conex boxes. Good for you! Your love of conex boxes doesn’t mean concrete block is worse.
Different strokes for different folks!
One problem with conexes is the floors. Sometimes the floors are heavily treated wood, with nasty chemicals applied in China where the containers are
built (China uses some bad wood treating chemicals banned in usa). Sometimes the less-treated floors are smorgasbords for termites.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
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Conex " homes" are popular out in western Alaska. Many natives use them as an alternative to importing conventional building materials at great cost.
I knew a bering sea crab fisherman in nome who wintered in costa rica. he lived in a buried conex. He claimed the interior temps were always
comfortable.
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5826
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One of the last construction projects I worked on was building a new school in Hooper Bay Alaska. It is a small, remote community that is only
supplied by a couple of barges a year, or air freight.
The "hotel" we stayed at was constructed of connex containers! At least it was one of the few buildings that had been connected to the new water and
sewage system. Most of the town hauled water home, then hauled their excrement to the sewage lagoon.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2343
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Goat,
If you want to live in a block house fine. The front ground floor part of ours is partly block. Assuming that you are going to insulate the block you
end up with a 10” thick wall rather than a 4+” wall. We used the same crew and the same interior/exterior finish for both parts of the house. The
block part took about twice as much labor as the steel part
The work went faster even though our guys had never done a container house. The electrical and plumbing also went faster. The finished parts both look
the same but the steel part is a lot greener.
It’s far easer to attach stuff to the steel part like stairs, railing, solar panels, shutters and so on.
We either put concrete or laminate on the container floors so no Chinese plywood problem.
Then there’s the 6” thick block problem, you pay for the area under the blocks just the same as the part of the floor you walk on. Less wall and
more floor is better!
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advrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 1847
Registered: 10-2-2015
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I've really enjoyed following your progress, thanks for posting. I may have missed it but how did the price per square foot compare to conventional
construction?
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RFClark
Super Nomad
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advrider,
It’s difficult to compare per square foot prices because often builder houses don’t include things we did as a part of our building process.
As an example, we installed solar electric and water before actually building the house as well as perimeter walls and fences. Things often not
included in a contractor’s per sq ft bid.
Taking the solar electric system as an example. Our system currently has 18 - 540W panels and 2 - 48V 6KW inverters with 14KW of Li Ion batteries. The
panels are incorporated into the design of the house rather than added on after completion. As a result the panels are not visible from the ground as
is often the case in our area. I think we saved about 50% and have a better system as a result. This level of cost savings is reflected in the other
subsystems as well.
The AC system is also designed into the house rather than added on afterword. That includes the water collection from the AC units adding it into the
gray water we use for watering plants and trees. That collection and watering system was also built during construction.
We also built and installed the Hurricane/security shutters during construction rather than installing them afterword. The shutters are designed for
this house rather than using existing catalog shutters.
The initial building phase also included an integrated rain water collection system from the decks and roof. This too is not generally included in the
basic per sq ft cost of construction.
The advantages of integrating the major subsystems into the construction process go beyond just lower costs. It makes the subsystems look seamless,
perform better as well as be easer to maintain.
Taking all of the above into consideration you can understand why there is a difference in the construction per sq ft price and the resale per sq ft
price which is usually a several times multiple of the basic construction price. Using this metric I think our costs were quite low vs the value
created.
Only time will tell!
[Edited on 11-10-2023 by RFClark]
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