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Author: Subject: NORRA 500 racer kills 8-year old boy
mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 06:01 AM
NORRA 500 racer kills 8-year old boy


Sad. A poorly-maintained race vehicle on an unsafe track.
https://www.ensenada.net/noticias/nota.php?id=69437

http://**************.com/

Apparently, driver was driving a truck with failed brakes, and hit parked car on the public road.

Perhaps time to stop this chit… how many more innocents must die to entertain offroad fans?






[Edited on 10-1-2022 by mtgoat666]




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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 08:17 AM


Perhaps going to a fixed closed course scenario, like Supercross would be easier to keep this from happening? A 50 or 100 mile loop?

I found this study on the impacts of off-roading, a few years old:

https://www.witpress.com/Secure/elibrary/papers/ST10/ST10038...

Damage to flora seems to be recoverable, which is good, and not surprising

Surveys of people who lived near race courses said the economic benefits were not worth the costs 65%, worth the cost 35%.

It seems as Baja has become so much more popular a destination for vacations and homes that the economic boost of the off-road races has substantially diminished over the last couple of decades.

I tried to contact SCORE last year about these issues, but never got a response to my multiple emails. I couldn't find a PR person that would respond. Not a good look, IMO. I have not tried to contact NORRA.

John

[Edited on 10-1-2022 by John Harper]
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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 08:35 AM


Sadly some motor sports folks think Mexico is their consequence free playground where anything goes.
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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 09:44 AM


It would be interesting to poll these folks who think that Baja is their personal playground and see nothing wrong with tearing through the countryside scaring the local critters, creating noise pollution, etc.
I'd be willing to bet the majority are right-wing "No one can tell me what to do" types.
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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 10:24 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Sad. A poorly-maintained race vehicle on an unsafe track.
https://www.ensenada.net/noticias/nota.php?id=69437

http://**************.com/

Apparently, driver was driving a truck with failed brakes, and hit parked car on the public road.

Perhaps time to stop this chit… how many more innocents must die to entertain offroad fans?






[Edited on 10-1-2022 by mtgoat666]



don't ever quote Baja Racing News as a source...we all know who that jackazz is:(
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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 04:15 PM


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

I'd be willing to bet the majority are right-wing "No one can tell me what to do" types.






100%, there is a common denominator among that crew.
Respect for the Tierra should be top priority. Not to mention
some in the Mex Govt. get $$$ to sign off on it







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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 04:48 PM


Aside from an occasional "Let's go Brandon", do you really thing the racing crowd sits around and talks politics? That's for old farts on forums!

I'll bet most of them couldn't tell you who represents them in congress.




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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 10:47 PM



Wow! took this thread only 4 posts to go down the political chithole.

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
Sadly some motor sports folks think Mexico is their consequence free playground where anything goes.


A few do, most don't.

And off the rails we go.

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

I'd be willing to bet the majority are right-wing "No one can tell me what to do" types.



Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  

It seems as Baja has become so much more popular a destination for vacations and homes that the economic boost of the off-road races has substantially diminished over the last couple of decades.


John

[Edited on 10-1-2022 by John Harper]


So we outlaw desert racing that has been here for 55 years to make the new comers happy? If you buy a house at the end of the runway you can't b-tch about planes taking off and landing.



Quote: Originally posted by sancho  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

I'd be willing to bet the majority are right-wing "No one can tell me what to do" types.





100%, there is a common denominator among that crew.
Respect for the Tierra should be top priority. Not to mention
some in the Mex Govt. get $$$ to sign off on it


You are very wrong. Some people love offroading and offroad racing and have great respect for the world around us as well. Desert racing is not "go that way, make it to the finish line and get there anyway you can". All races are on established roads, albeit they are dirt, and to keep racers honest there are virtual check points you have to hit on the established roads to validate your race so driving willy nilly thru the desert is not really a thing.


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
"I'll bet most of them couldn't tell you who represents them in congress."

Nor read the Constitution, but since when has that ever stopped right-wingers from spouting off with their political opinions and what America supposedly stands for?


Pot, meet kettle. You're saying the exact same thing 180º to the left.



Everybody supposedly has the same rights and just because Lefty Liberal or Whitey Tighty is inconvenienced or doesn't like something doesn't mean it should be outlawed and done away with. Thats the problem in todays society, everything is so polarized and it's my way or the highway that nothing can get done anymore and everybody wants it their way.

Is it horrible an 8 year old got killed by a desert racer? Absolutely. Should we outlaw desert racing and offroading because of it? Absolutely not. Sometimes bad chit happens and ya know what, thats life and it sucks but if your answer to such things is outlaw everything that has a risk then I feel sorry for you and the world you want to live in.

And before you start bashing me as some RWNJ, just don't. I hate the GQP and Trump and all the freaks that make up that party with every fiber of my being but are they 100% wrong on everything they do? Absolutely not. And are the Lefty Liberals 100% right on everything they propose? Again, absolutely no. Both side have SOME good ideas on how a society could and should function and if everybody on both sides would take a breath and try to come to some compromises, like it used to be back in the good ole days, maybe, just maybe some things could be accomplished to benefit everyone and we could move on from all this bothsiderism bickering horsechit that is just getting more polarized and ridicules everyday.

Rant over, continue on as you were bashing desert racing, I'm going back to the mushroom growing forum where it's much more civil and completely apolitical.




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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 10-1-2022 at 11:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  


So we outlaw desert racing that has been here for 55 years to make the new comers happy? If you buy a house at the end of the runway you can't b-tch about planes taking off and landing.


Society had chosen to ban many activities that have a long history. A few example: adultery, murder, slavery, DDT, agent orange, etc.

A long history of being wrong does not make a right.

Times change.




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 05:38 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  

It seems as Baja has become so much more popular a destination for vacations and homes that the economic boost of the off-road races has substantially diminished over the last couple of decades.


John


So we outlaw desert racing that has been here for 55 years to make the new comers happy? If you buy a house at the end of the runway you can't bi-tch about planes taking off and landing.


That's not what I said at all. I said that economic development sometimes makes other activities less important to the Baja economy. There used to be several racetracks and airports in the Los Angeles area, changes to the economy and other activities (housing) have eliminated or consolidated those sectors of the old LA economy. I worked next to Ascot Park in the early 1990's just after it closed down for redevelopment.

Change happens, deal with it.

Part of your problem is the same one hunters (like me) have today. Less and less percent of the population hunt, so it's a slow loss of voting power for hunter's issues. Is big time off-road racing growing or declining as a sport? Is motocross growing or declining as a sport? Probably debatable, but I bet it's not as popular across the board as it was in the 60's, 70's and 80's when I grew up. Remember "On Any Sunday" and how popular it was across the US in 1971?

Here's some data:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183549/us-sales-of-motor...

Looks like a big drop in motorcycle sales alone in 2007, that has not recovered as yet. Add in a much larger US population than 1970 and you can infer a bigger decline versus population.

Seems like the only fan base here on BN are over 60, am I right?

OTOH, look how important agriculture and viniculture have become for Baja over the last 50 years, with it's related supporting economies of hotels, restaurants, and tourism. I bet that sector alone contributes more to the economy than all the races run in one year combined.

No one builds hotels and restaurants based on 4 weeks a year of business.

You might be living in the past Mr. B.

John

[Edited on 10-2-2022 by John Harper]
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mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 06:57 AM


Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  

It seems as Baja has become so much more popular a destination for vacations and homes that the economic boost of the off-road races has substantially diminished over the last couple of decades.


John


So we outlaw desert racing that has been here for 55 years to make the new comers happy? If you buy a house at the end of the runway you can't bi-tch about planes taking off and landing.


That's not what I said at all. I said that economic development sometimes makes other activities less important to the Baja economy. There used to be several racetracks and airports in the Los Angeles area, changes to the economy and other activities (housing) have eliminated or consolidated those sectors of the old LA economy. I worked next to Ascot Park in the early 1990's just after it closed down for redevelopment.

Change happens, deal with it.

Part of your problem is the same one hunters (like me) have today. Less and less percent of the population hunt, so it's a slow loss of voting power for hunter's issues. Is big time off-road racing growing or declining as a sport? Is motocross growing or declining as a sport? Probably debatable, but I bet it's not as popular across the board as it was in the 60's, 70's and 80's when I grew up. Remember "On Any Sunday" and how popular it was across the US in 1971?

Here's some data:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183549/us-sales-of-motor...

Looks like a big drop in motorcycle sales alone in 2007, that has not recovered as yet. Add in a much larger US population than 1970 and you can infer a bigger decline versus population.

Seems like the only fan base here on BN are over 60, am I right?

OTOH, look how important agriculture and viniculture have become for Baja over the last 50 years, with it's related supporting economies of hotels, restaurants, and tourism. I bet that sector alone contributes more to the economy than all the races run in one year combined.

You might be living in the past Mr. B.

John

[Edited on 10-2-2022 by John Harper]


Sometimes the citizens decide that conservation is more important than a particular destructive activity.

The promoters stage races that kill spectators, and non-spectators. And society may decide that human life is worth more than a weekend of hotel bookings.

Tell the promoters to stage safe and less-destructive races, and perhaps society would be more accepting of races, eh?




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 08:14 AM


"driver was driving a truck with failed brakes," I've read the news report three times and missed this account.? I did see "lost control due to a mechanical failure" (not specific) Goat are you speculating or have info not referenced here? That looks like a T bone collision.

[Edited on 10-2-2022 by Glidergeek]
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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 08:28 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  


Sometimes bad chit happens and ya know what, thats life and it sucks but if your answer to such things is outlaw everything that has a risk then I feel sorry for you and the world you want to live in.



I have an objection to this statement. Only the drivers should be at risk. If spectators are at risk then something needs to be changed. Especially in a case like this.




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 08:52 AM


Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  


Sometimes bad chit happens and ya know what, thats life and it sucks but if your answer to such things is outlaw everything that has a risk then I feel sorry for you and the world you want to live in.



I have an objection to this statement. Only the drivers should be at risk. If spectators are at risk then something needs to be changed. Especially in a case like this.


I’ll assume spectators are capable of making decisions and assessing risks in this race. You want a safer Baja.

Bajazly x2




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 08:59 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly  

Wow! took this thread only 4 posts to go down the political chithole.

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
Sadly some motor sports folks think Mexico is their consequence free playground where anything goes.


A few do, most don't.

And off the rails we go.

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

I'd be willing to bet the majority are right-wing "No one can tell me what to do" types.



Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  

It seems as Baja has become so much more popular a destination for vacations and homes that the economic boost of the off-road races has substantially diminished over the last couple of decades.


John

[Edited on 10-1-2022 by John Harper]


So we outlaw desert racing that has been here for 55 years to make the new comers happy? If you buy a house at the end of the runway you can't b-tch about planes taking off and landing.



Quote: Originally posted by sancho  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  

I'd be willing to bet the majority are right-wing "No one can tell me what to do" types.





100%, there is a common denominator among that crew.
Respect for the Tierra should be top priority. Not to mention
some in the Mex Govt. get $$$ to sign off on it


You are very wrong. Some people love offroading and offroad racing and have great respect for the world around us as well. Desert racing is not "go that way, make it to the finish line and get there anyway you can". All races are on established roads, albeit they are dirt, and to keep racers honest there are virtual check points you have to hit on the established roads to validate your race so driving willy nilly thru the desert is not really a thing.


Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
"I'll bet most of them couldn't tell you who represents them in congress."

Nor read the Constitution, but since when has that ever stopped right-wingers from spouting off with their political opinions and what America supposedly stands for?


Pot, meet kettle. You're saying the exact same thing 180º to the left.



Everybody supposedly has the same rights and just because Lefty Liberal or Whitey Tighty is inconvenienced or doesn't like something doesn't mean it should be outlawed and done away with. Thats the problem in todays society, everything is so polarized and it's my way or the highway that nothing can get done anymore and everybody wants it their way.

Is it horrible an 8 year old got killed by a desert racer? Absolutely. Should we outlaw desert racing and offroading because of it? Absolutely not. Sometimes bad chit happens and ya know what, thats life and it sucks but if your answer to such things is outlaw everything that has a risk then I feel sorry for you and the world you want to live in.

And before you start bashing me as some RWNJ, just don't. I hate the GQP and Trump and all the freaks that make up that party with every fiber of my being but are they 100% wrong on everything they do? Absolutely not. And are the Lefty Liberals 100% right on everything they propose? Again, absolutely no. Both side have SOME good ideas on how a society could and should function and if everybody on both sides would take a breath and try to come to some compromises, like it used to be back in the good ole days, maybe, just maybe some things could be accomplished to benefit everyone and we could move on from all this bothsiderism bickering horsechit that is just getting more polarized and ridicules everyday.

Rant over, continue on as you were bashing desert racing, I'm going back to the mushroom growing forum where it's much more civil and completely apolitical.

Bajazly--Nice post, succinct, written well and touched on all the right points. Agree 100%. Way more energy/time than I would waste on the closed minded goobs here, but nicely done.




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 10:07 AM


Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Way more energy/time than I would waste on the closed minded goobs here, but nicely done.


Seems to me the only "closed minded goobs" on this thread are those that refuse to comprehend that times change. And not always in the way one would prefer, living in the past is easy comfort, no critical thinking required.

John
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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 10:28 AM


Quote: Originally posted by John Harper  
Quote: Originally posted by DouglasP  
Way more energy/time than I would waste on the closed minded goobs here, but nicely done.


Seems to me the only "closed minded goobs" on this thread are those that refuse to comprehend that times change. And not always in the way one would prefer, living in the past is easy comfort, no critical thinking required.

John

OK.




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 11:13 AM


I just read some Mexican news accounts. The accident was at kilometer 12 on the Ensenada - Ojos Negro highway section. The boy's father received a severe head injury and is in serious condition. The family is from the United States and was parked on the shoulder of the road.

So this off-road race accident did not happen off-road..........

https://www.elvigia.net/general/2022/10/1/tragedia-en-rally-...

You probably know this but if you want to find news stories in Spanish use Spanish search terms. Sort of obvious I guess.

I searched for NORRA 500 accidente


[Edited on 10-2-2022 by SFandH]




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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 11:19 AM


Personally, I find Baja off road races to be relatively benign and probably a boost to further tourism, IMO.

However, I also recognize that Baja has a lot more economic interests today than when I first followed the Baja 1000 in the late 60's, early 70's. What was Cabo like in 1972? 2022?

John
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[*] posted on 10-2-2022 at 11:20 AM


The unusual suspects come out swinging, never letting a tragedy or crisis go to waste to further their agenda for more restrictions.

I swear they would ban any activity after someone gets hurt. They probably put bubble wrap on their kids, or just didn't let them out of the house to do anything fun.


[Edited on 10-2-2022 by JZ]




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