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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3015
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Turns out UDO is correct.
To sell a home on leased land there will be no record for capital gains determination since the home is not identified. Only the land is documented
and it will no be sold.
For a home with a fideicomiso the seller has to have a RFC, or (Registro Federal de Contribuyentes). This is a registration for the Mexican IRS. When
the house is sold a factura is created documenting the sale price and then that Mx IRS evaluates the capital gain after their appraisal, and demands
their 30% of the capital gain. This whole process takes a long time, meanwhile the funds are held in escrow at a bank. The process has reported to
take over a year. Faster release of funds usually requires a real lawyer as opposed to a notorio, thus adding to the expense.
Recently the cost of the RFC has gotten less expensive but expertise is required to do the task on-line. For on-line creation the Mx fees are still
applicable.
Factura is an what I call an invoice which documents the transfer of money from one to another.
[Edited on 8-25-2023 by PaulW]
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
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Fixed
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6326
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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Thank you!
I am sure you have some idea of the number of people who think the fideicomiso is the title to end all titles. Essentially, a person is renting the
land and home from a bank. And then, even if sold to a Mexican national, good luck getting the title released from the bank!
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  | Turns out UDO is correct.
To sell a home on leased land there will be no record for capital gains determination since the home is not identified. Only the land is documented
and it will no be sold.
For a home with a fideicomiso the seller has to have a RFC, or (Registro Federal de Contribuyentes). This is a registration for the Mexican IRS. When
the house is sold a fractura is created documenting the sale price and then that Mx IRS evaluates the capital gain after their appraisal, and demands
their 30% of the capital gain. This whole process takes a long time, meanwhile the funds are held in escrow at a bank. The process has reported to
take over a year. Faster release of funds usually requires a real lawyer as opposed to a notorio, thus adding to the expense.
Recently the cost of the RFC has gotten less expensive but expertise is required to do the task on-line. For on-line creation the Mx fees are still
applicable.
Fractura is an what I call an invoice which documents the transfer of money from one to another. |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6326
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Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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BeachSeeker
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 6-6-2023
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| Quote: Originally posted by Udo | Thank you!
I am sure you have some idea of the number of people who think the fideicomiso is the title to end all titles. Essentially, a person is renting the
land and home from a bank. And then, even if sold to a Mexican national, good luck getting the title released from the bank!
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I don't know, this seems really disingenuous. While a fideicomiso may add barriers when trying to transact Mexican real estate, at least you can be
'relatively' sure that the land and house is yours. I've not heard of anyone who has a fideicomiso and lost their house, as long as the trust and
title was legal in the first place.
With a lease, you have a little safety for 9 years 11 months, after that, you are on a hope and a prayer. If the owner dies and their kids take over,
all bets are off, etc. Look how many nightmare threads are on this board about the owners kicking people off of their land and taking their houses
once the lease is up.
[Edited on 8-26-2023 by BeachSeeker]
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6326
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You are correct!
| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker |
as long as the trust and title was legal in the first place.
With a lease, you have a little safety for 9 years 11 months, after that, you are on a hope and a prayer. If the owner dies and their kids take over,
all bets are off, etc. Look how many nightmare threads are on this board about the owners kicking people off of their land and taking their houses
once the lease is up.
[Edited on 8-26-2023 by BeachSeeker] |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3457
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker |
With a lease, you have a little safety for 9 years 11 months, after that, you are on a hope and a prayer. If the owner dies and their kids take over,
all bets are off, etc. Look how many nightmare threads are on this board about the owners kicking people off of their land and taking their houses
once the lease is up.
[Edited on 8-26-2023 by BeachSeeker] |
A lease is as safe as the land owner willing to honor the lease. MX court would not be an option for me if the lease was broken, for whatever
reason.
Personally, I wouldn't go up against any of the 4 MX families who own the land.
Doing business in MX on a wing and a prayer would be laughed at up North.
Udo has had a good run. That run doesn't necessarily apply to new owners.
Caveat emptor for sure.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1482
Registered: 7-30-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker |
With a lease, you have a little safety for 9 years 11 months, after that, you are on a hope and a prayer. If the owner dies and their kids take over,
all bets are off, etc. Look how many nightmare threads are on this board about the owners kicking people off of their land and taking their houses
once the lease is up.
[Edited on 8-26-2023 by BeachSeeker] |
A lease is as safe as the land owner willing to honor the lease. MX court would not be an option for me if the lease was broken, for whatever
reason.
Personally, I wouldn't go up against any of the 4 MX families who own the land.
Doing business in MX on a wing and a prayer would be laughed at up North.
Udo has had a good run. That run doesn't necessarily apply to new owners.
Caveat emptor for sure. |
Like many properties in Mexico, if you can afford it and want it- do it. If not, keep walking.
I never understand why people that have no chance of buying something feel the need to comment negatively.
Looks like a nice place. Good luck with your sale.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17382
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by Udo | Thank you!
I am sure you have some idea of the number of people who think the fideicomiso is the title to end all titles. Essentially, a person is renting the
land and home from a bank. And then, even if sold to a Mexican national, good luck getting the title released from the bank!
|
I don't know, this seems really disingenuous. While a fideicomiso may add barriers when trying to transact Mexican real estate, at least you can be
'relatively' sure that the land and house is yours. I've not heard of anyone who has a fideicomiso and lost their house, as long as the trust and
title was legal in the first place.
With a lease, you have a little safety for 9 years 11 months, after that, you are on a hope and a prayer. If the owner dies and their kids take over,
all bets are off, etc. Look how many nightmare threads are on this board about the owners kicking people off of their land and taking their houses
once the lease is up.
[Edited on 8-26-2023 by BeachSeeker] |
Travel trailers and mobile homes, with simple simple palapa/garage, are ideal for leased property.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surfhat
Nomad
Posts: 497
Registered: 6-4-2012
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I had thought a feidocamiso being granted was a guarantee that you are not being suckered by a non legally entity's claim of ownership. This was 30
years ago when it worked for me.
At the time over thirty years ago, we had no other options than to rely upon a notorio to legitimatize our limited ownership. Limited, being the bank
holding the trust and we paying fees every year for that limited title of ownership.
The wisdom of buying something that you can walk away from, is still relevant, or should be. Apparently this is relevant even with a notario claiming,
no problemo.
I feel fortunate the ownership was never questioned at time. Others, not so much. Live and learn is a valuable lesson, whether we are buying or
leasing or renting.
Risk is up to each of us to fathom for ourselves to determine.
Renting/leasing has a value in the inherent simplicity of avoiding so many pitfalls that we all hear about. Ownership comes with its own set of risks
and costs.
If one can love a place enough to deal with the risks, the price is cheap.
My love for Baja has always been the salt of the earth locals that will go out their way for anyone that needs assistance when there are little
options.
I have never found this dynamic to disappoint me when I needed help. It is the locals who will stop and offer help while gringoes pass on by without a
care.
Yes, I have stopped on occasion to see if I could offer help.
Antonio in El Rosario is a saint for what he has been able to create with the help of so many Nomads.
That 200 mile run through the Valle de Cirios run south is always a gift to anyone that drives it. Knowing Antonio has our backs is a comfort.
I never fail to stop at his gas station in El Rosario as much to have a full tank for the next 200 miles, as for supporting his efforts at having a
rescue available when there was nada previously.
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1482
Registered: 7-30-2014
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by Udo | Thank you!
I am sure you have some idea of the number of people who think the fideicomiso is the title to end all titles. Essentially, a person is renting the
land and home from a bank. And then, even if sold to a Mexican national, good luck getting the title released from the bank!
|
I don't know, this seems really disingenuous. While a fideicomiso may add barriers when trying to transact Mexican real estate, at least you can be
'relatively' sure that the land and house is yours. I've not heard of anyone who has a fideicomiso and lost their house, as long as the trust and
title was legal in the first place.
With a lease, you have a little safety for 9 years 11 months, after that, you are on a hope and a prayer. If the owner dies and their kids take over,
all bets are off, etc. Look how many nightmare threads are on this board about the owners kicking people off of their land and taking their houses
once the lease is up.
[Edited on 8-26-2023 by BeachSeeker] |
Travel trailers and mobile homes, with simple simple palapa/garage, are ideal for leased property.
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Goat666-
More “expertise” from someone who never invested more than a hotel room in Baja. Thanks for sharing
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BeachSeeker
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 6-6-2023
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | I never understand why people that have no chance of buying something feel the need to comment negatively.
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Much as I never understand why people that don't know the first thing about me think they know my financial situation.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4324
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | I never understand why people that have no chance of buying something feel the need to comment negatively.
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Much as I never understand why people that don't know the first thing about me think they know my financial situation. |
No worries seeker. Tioloco can't help himself. He knows everything. Just ask him..........
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1482
Registered: 7-30-2014
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Seeker- My response was directed at the Goat666. But after reviewing your earlier response I couldn’t help but notice you telling Udo his response
was “disingenuous”….
Maybe you and Goat666 are both in the category of jealous Nomads that cant afford Udo’s listing so you think it is a bad buy for all.
Either way, peace and love… 
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BeachSeeker
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 6-6-2023
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | Seeker- My response was directed at the Goat666. But after reviewing your earlier response I couldn’t help but notice you telling Udo his response
was “disingenuous”….
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No it wasn't. You quoted me, and then gave that response. Own up to it.
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1482
Registered: 7-30-2014
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by BeachSeeker | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | Seeker- My response was directed at the Goat666. But after reviewing your earlier response I couldn’t help but notice you telling Udo his response
was “disingenuous”….
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No it wasn't. You quoted me, and then gave that response. Own up to it. |
Own up to it?
Ok Neither of the 3 of you have any ability/interest in buying the house. Yet you choose to comment negatively on it.
It is a nice house and is priced right for a qualified buyer. Good luck in the sale.
Peace, love and tacos.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3457
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Ok Neither of the 3 of you have any ability/interest in buying the house. Yet you choose to comment negatively on it.
It is a nice house and is priced right for a qualified buyer. Good luck in the sale.
Peace, love and tacos. |
Doubt you know the 3 mentioned or their ability/interest in real estate anywhere. Presumptious.
Goat was sarcastic, beach guy was on the mark.
If you see negativity in writing about the downside to leasing land with a home on it, you don't know real estate.
Udo knows the facts and so do a lot of people. Not a big deal.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6326
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
Member Is Offline
Mood: TEQUILA!
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T O T A L L Y
| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Seeker- My response was directed at the Goat666. But after reviewing your earlier response I couldn’t help but notice you telling Udo his response
was “disingenuous”….
Maybe you and Goat666 are both in the category of jealous Nomads that cant afford Udo’s listing so you think it is a bad buy for all.
Either way, peace and love… |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6326
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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Mood: TEQUILA!
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Ok Neither of the 3 of you have any ability/interest in buying the house. Yet you choose to comment negatively on it.
It is a nice house and is priced right for a qualified buyer. Good luck in the sale.
Peace, love and tacos. |
Doubt you know the 3 mentioned or their ability/interest in real estate anywhere. Presumptious.
Goat was sarcastic, beach guy was on the mark.
If you see negativity in writing about the downside to leasing land with a home on it, you don't know real estate.
Udo knows the facts and so do a lot of people. Not a big deal. |
Lee knows!
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6326
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Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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 Hard to believe that almost 4000 members looked at this ad so far!
[Edited on 9-22-2023 by Udo]
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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