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Santiago
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Violence without justice on Mexican voters minds
Report of continued violence and Mexican citizens anger and frustration here.
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elgatoloco
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Posts: 4324
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Location: Yes
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Tragic and sad.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Hook
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Posts: 9006
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Location: Sonora
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Sa-sa-sa same as it ever was, same as it ever was.
Leave it to the NYT to try and capitalize on a few recent, high profile shootouts, to try and make the situation seem different. Click-click-click go
the computer mice.
Probably the start of their campaign to try and influence who the next president will be.
Most of the Mexicans I know, look upon AMLO's presidency with disgust. They don't think he's corrupt, just incompetent and a complete fool. Many of
them voted for him.
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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by Hook  | Sa-sa-sa same as it ever was, same as it ever was.
Leave it to the NYT to try and capitalize on a few recent, high profile shootouts, to try and make the situation seem different. Click-click-click go
the computer mice.
Probably the start of their campaign to try and influence who the next president will be.
Most of the Mexicans I know, look upon AMLO's presidency with disgust. They don't think he's corrupt, just incompetent and a complete fool. Many of
them voted for him. |
You are an out-of-touch fool if you dont think mexicans are worried about the violence in their country.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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RFClark
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Mood: Looking forward to 2024
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Goat,
Violence is endemic around the globe. In case you missed it there are regional wars spreading over several areas around Iran and Russia. South America
is close to a regional war over oil. The Western Pacific is just plain scary.
Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns has recently had a number of religious inspired shootings with fully automatic weapons, and
of course murders with lots of sharp pointy things.
It’s missed entirely by you but still worth asking. Where ever do those Mexican cartels get the drugs and precursor chemicals to make the drugs
from? (China?) Imported Chinese drones are used frequently to drop bombs on or directly impact into rivals vehicles and locations. Drug vehicles are
beginning to resemble Russian APCs.
Then there are the estimated 250K OTMs along Mexico’s Northern border. However do you imagine they managed to cross Mexico entirely undetected?
Since to even wonder how the known problems in Mexico have failed to be addressed is forbidden here because “It’s Political”. So I won’t. That
said putting a throw rug over the Elephant in your living room only draws the eye!
I can’t imagine why ordinary people are worried. (Not!) At a time like this the question is not are you being paranoid but are you being paranoid
enough! Sadly the answer is in the negative.
[Edited on 12-23-2023 by RFClark]
[Edited on 12-23-2023 by RFClark]
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
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Location: Sonora
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Hook | Sa-sa-sa same as it ever was, same as it ever was.
Leave it to the NYT to try and capitalize on a few recent, high profile shootouts, to try and make the situation seem different. Click-click-click go
the computer mice.
Probably the start of their campaign to try and influence who the next president will be.
Most of the Mexicans I know, look upon AMLO's presidency with disgust. They don't think he's corrupt, just incompetent and a complete fool. Many of
them voted for him. |
You are an out-of-touch fool if you dont think mexicans are worried about the violence in their country.
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Reading comprehension seems to elude you, at times.
I'm scratching my heading, trying to figure out how you concluded that I think Mexicans aren't worried about the violence. Of course they are. Anyone
living down here knows that. But hey have a more fatalistic perspective on it. Little wonder, given their violent history of coups, political
assassinations and the impunity with which the cartels operate.
Then, it hit me.............I DESECRATED YOUR GREAT LIBERAL BIBLE; the New York Times.
I had to be dealt with..........
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surabi
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That is a completely false statement. You should do some research before you spread misinformation.
Many Europeans legally own guns. Owning a gun for hunting or sport shooting is allowed. Almost all Swiss own guns. Europeans have restrictions on the
type of guns a private citizen is allowed to own, they have strict background checks, and you have to give the reason you want to own a gun.
[Edited on 12-24-2023 by surabi]
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RFClark
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You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.
The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had
universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.
The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.
Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.
“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices.
Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be
distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”
Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe”
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AKgringo
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It wasn't the Swiss armed citizens that kept them safe. It was the Swiss banking system that was sheltering stashes of German wealth that the Third
Reich didn't want to mess up.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
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AK,
Probably that as well. The Germans felt it would have taken in excess of 30 divisions to subdue the Swiss. That’s a hard nut and they had bigger
fish to fry.
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Ateo
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Humans commit crimes based off many things, but an important factor for a criminal is:
Will they get caught?
In Mexico, many crimes go unsolved.
I sometimes ponder if we have free will. If you put a criminal in a certain situation 1000 times, and watch their thought process - will the commit
that crime every time? Are they choosing? Or are past patterns choosing? Are their life experiences choosing? Is there a person choosing anything
in any of us?
Take a mushroom this Christmas Eve on the beach in Mazatlan and ponder these things.
  
Jajajajajjaja.
Merry Christmas from an Ateo or whatever it is I am.
Viva Mexico Cabrones.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.
The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had
universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.
The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.
Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.
“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices.
Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be
distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”
Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe” |
Love how you tie yourself in knots trying to deny that what you wrote is incorrect.
And "The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there." ???
Europe is a continent. Switzerland is a European country. You stated "Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns..."
That Finland and Switzerland "are not typical" doesn't make them not Europeans.
That Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, which is an economic and political entity, doesn't mean it isn't a part of Europe or that the
Swiss aren't Europeans.
You made a false statement. Own it.
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stillnbaja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 95
Registered: 5-4-2023
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.
The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had
universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.
The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.
Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.
“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices.
Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be
distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”
Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe” |
Love how you tie yourself in knots trying to deny that what you wrote is incorrect.
And "The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there." ???
Europe is a continent. Switzerland is a European country. You stated "Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns..."
That Finland and Switzerland "are not typical" doesn't make them not Europeans.
That Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, which is an economic and political entity, doesn't mean it isn't a part of Europe or that the
Swiss aren't Europeans.
You made a false statement. Own it. |
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ateo |
I sometimes ponder if we have free will. If you put a criminal in a certain situation 1000 times, and watch their thought process - will the commit
that crime every time? Are they choosing? Or are past patterns choosing? Are their life experiences choosing? Is there a person choosing anything
in any of us?
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I actually just listened to a podcast the other day which was about exactly that. I think the interviewee was a psychologist or sociologist, whose
theory is that free will is an illusion. Not because some entity called God is directing everything, but because peoples' "choices" are based upon
many things which they can't control and may not even be aware of, like family and cultural attitudes that influenced their values and thinking
process from an early age.
And it is now an accepted fact in human psychology that one's basic belief system, meaning their perception of the world and their place in it, is
fully formed by the age of six. An example would be, "Humans are basically good, and most try to do the right thing" vs. "Everyone is out to screw
you, so you might as well screw them first".
And one's basic belief system can be altered, but it usually involves some major life event- almost dying in an accident or illness, or for instance,
a white soldier who has been indoctrinated from an early age to hate Blacks, having a fellow Black soldier save their life.
Even basic human emotions are different and ellicit different behaviors based on what is culturally acceptable. There was a study where the same
scenario was set up in different countries, with the participants asked how it made them feel and what it made them feel like doing. The same scenario
that caused an American to say it made them angry, and it made them feel like yelling at, or punching someone, in Japan ellicited the participant
saying it made them feel hurt and made them want to leave the room.
[Edited on 12-24-2023 by surabi]
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RFClark
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The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence. Perhaps as a result of universal military
service or effective enforcement of weapon (not gun) laws.
The majority of the EU (political europe) and the UK have gun laws. But few weapon laws. Illegal automatic weapons are literally sold on the streets
in some EU countries.
Dance around that! Try spelling or punctuation! But avoid the obvious conclusion that just gun laws don’t stop violence and mass killings.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17401
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence. Perhaps as a result of universal military
service or effective enforcement of weapon (not gun) laws.
The majority of the EU (political europe) and the UK have gun laws. But few weapon laws. Illegal automatic weapons are literally sold on the streets
in some EU countries.
Dance around that! Try spelling or punctuation! But avoid the obvious conclusion that just gun laws don’t stop violence and mass killings.
|
Americans have proven that they are irresponsible with guns. Statistics dont lie. It is apparent that Americans as a whole would be safer without
guns. Some people would feel inadequate w/o a gun, but that would be a small price to pay for safety of citizens.
Or perhaps Finnish socialism is the key, eh? Be more finn, vote leftist.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3257
Registered: 5-6-2016
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence. Perhaps as a result of universal military
service or effective enforcement of weapon (not gun) laws.
|
Wrong again. The Swiss have a strong tradition of hunting and sports gun use. There are tons of shooting clubs and competitions where people learn gun
safety and marksmanship.
https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o...
The majority of Americans have a completely different reason for owning guns. Paranoia and distrust of others is rampant in the US and the majority of
US gun owners will say they own a gun for the purpose of protecting themselves, rather than for hunting, target shooting, or because they are ranchers
or farmers who use a gun to ward off predators that endanger their livestock or decimate their crops.
Gun violence is the result of lax gun laws, lack of safety training and practice (the number of US children who get accidentally killed, or kill
others after finding their parent's loaded gun is shocking and tragic), a high rate of mental illness, and the attitude that shooting someone
is a reasonable response to "perceived" (i.e. subjective) danger.
So while many Americans think that pointing a gun at, or shooting some stranger who trespasses on their property, but hasn't threatened them in any
way, is a perfectly reasonable response, people in other countries would consider that to be insane.
[Edited on 12-24-2023 by surabi]
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by stillnbaja | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.
The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had
universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.
The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.
Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.
“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices.
Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be
distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”
Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe” |
Love how you tie yourself in knots trying to deny that what you wrote is incorrect.
And "The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there." ???
Europe is a continent. Switzerland is a European country. You stated "Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns..."
That Finland and Switzerland "are not typical" doesn't make them not Europeans.
That Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, which is an economic and political entity, doesn't mean it isn't a part of Europe or that the
Swiss aren't Europeans.
You made a false statement. Own it. |
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 17401
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Location: San Diego
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Wealthy gringo pensioners in mexico got no flocking idea what life is like for average mexicans. You gringo pensioners will say “but i am not
rich!” Actually, you are very, very wealthy in comparison to mexicans.
it’s not a bad thing be retired and comfortable in mexico. But it does not make you an expert in raising children in country stricken with
violence…
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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RFClark
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Posts: 2352
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Looking forward to 2024
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Read much?
“The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence”!
There are between 25 - 30 million hunters in the US. There are about 8 million swiss citizens.
Most of the mass shootings in Europe involve illegal automatic weapons. Then there are the over 100 Million Europeans and Americans not including all
the Russians and Ukrainians (currently approaching a million) killed by gun violence foisted on them by their governments inability to get along.
Inability to get along for hundreds of years.
The US needs to and could do better, existing gun laws that go unenforced, criminals repeatedly released to offend again until they finally kill. Yes
we could do better, but we could also do like Europe and do far worse!
[Edited on 12-25-2023 by RFClark]
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