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pacificobob
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I have owned boeing shares several times over the last 40 years....i don't think I've ever done well with it. They have a remarkable ability to snatch
failure from the jaws of success.
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AKgringo
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Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Grass Valley electronics
Another slight hi-jack.....Grass Valley Group was founded in rural ranch country just a couple of miles from where I grew up, which is also where I am
right now.
The founder's decision to start up an electronic device company well away from any major metropolis was reported to be because of a friendship with
Charles Litton Sr, who located a leading-edge microwave development facility here.
I went to school with the Litton brothers, and recently ran into Charles Litton Jr at their old plant, which is now commercial rental property.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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AKgringo
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Quality control issue before the door plug failure
I read an article today that says the door plug was manufactured by a sub-contractor that was already being sued for quality control issues.
www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/maker-of-boeing-door-plugs...
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
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Lencho,
He got out in front on the issue by accepting responsibility even though the FAA has “officially” said nothing. Boeing removes that plug during
final assembly to access the interior of the 737 AC. Boeing installed and inspected those bolts last. UAL and Alaska both have found loose bolts.
We’ll see how long this guy lasts as Boing’s CEO. My guess is not very.
There’s an interesting youtube video of how the door is installed. Basically the door has what looks like 2 upper 30mm pins at the sides down about
30CM from the top. The door has to come vertically about 40mm for the pin to clear the retainer built into the side of the AC. The loose or missing
bolt(s) seem to prevent the plug from moving upward to disengage not hold the plug in.
Watch the video if you’re interested.
[Edited on 1-11-2024 by RFClark]
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RFClark
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AK,
Tektronix went down the same “Rabbit hole”.
In the early ‘70s their Beaverton campus had a meeting room with a hardwood table described as “being the size of a tennis court”! Where are
they now?
The “bean counters” may inherit the earth. But there won’t be many “beans” left for them to count if they do!
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
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Quote: Originally posted by lencho  | | Quote: Originally posted by RFClark |
Here is a summery of the CEO’s remarks and the state of the investigation. UAL has already found loose plug bolts on their 737AC.
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Nothing there supporting your claims that the CEO "fell on his sword", nor that the bolts actually were missing on that aircraft.
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https://simpleflying.com/boeing-ceo-admits-responsibility-al...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-09/boeing-ce...
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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BajaNomad
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Thread Moved
1-11-2024 at 11:40 AM |
RFClark
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Hardware to secure panel that blew off Boeing 737 jet may never have been installed: NTSB
“Federal investigators probing last week’s near-disastrous Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 fuselage panel blowout are looking into the possibility that
the hardware that was supposed to keep it secured was never installed in the first place.
National Transportation Safety Board officials made the revelation during a Monday night press conference, hours after United Airlines reported
finding loose bolts and “installation issues” on some Boeing 737 MAX 9 jetliners in the wake of Friday evening’s emergency landing of Alaska
Airlines Flight 1282 at Portland International Airport.
Officials told reporters the door plug came off the plane minutes after it took off from PDX, causing the cabin pressure to drop precipitously and
creating the terrifying “loud” and “windy” conditions that led a young passenger sitting next to the missing door to reportedly lose his shirt
as he was held down by his mother.
The large panel that was blown off the plane was located where an emergency exit door would normally be on a plane with more seats, and should have
been secured by stop bolts and 12 interlocking pins and pads, investigators said.
“The exam to date has shown that the door did in fact translate upwards, all 12 stops became disengaged, allowing it to blow out of the fuselage,”
said NTSB aerospace engineer Clint Crookshanks.”
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Maderita
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | | "... all 12 stops became disengaged, allowing it to blow out of the fuselage,” said NTSB aerospace engineer Clint Crookshanks.”
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Engineer Crookedshanks went on to say that all 12 pins were bent. 
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LancairDriver
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Fast forward to a last week's incident and the stock starts cratering from the recent high of the mid $260s and I text the guy where he thinks the
stock will bottom out at. He says it's of no concern to him as he just sold the stock a few weeks before door plug blew out.[/rquote]
I think I have heard that before.
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RFClark
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Boeing’s Image Makeover; From Opaque To Tearfully Accountable - Forbes
“Could BoeingBA possibly be getting help from PR makeover consultants to soften its public image, lately perceived by some as cold and dodgy?
Breaking out of corporate character, Boeing’s CEO uncharacteristically accepted Boeing’s responsibility for Alaska Airlines’ door plug blowing
out in mid-air, at one point misting up, while discussing the event with Boeing employees at what must’ve been a very awkward town hall meeting.
This is in sharp contrast to the company’s past stubborn denial of the two 737 MAX crashes around 5 years ago, when they were initially quick to
deflect blame to the pilots. Once cornered with the truth, the company then tried throwing a sacrificial lower-level employee under the bus to shift
any blame from its senior management. The employee was exonerated, likely with lasting career damage, while leaving Boeing with yet another black eye
in its quest to deny leadership culpability.
However, their bristly public image seems to have gotten a sudden makeover following the most recent Alaska Airlines emergency. This time, instead of
blaming everyone but themselves, Boeing manned up and acknowledged their mistake despite the investigation still ongoing by the FAA. This radical and
sudden shift to accountability is in sharp contrast to its previous federal criminal misconduct fine for misleading regulatory officials.
However, Boeing may have laid on its new sympathetic persona a little too quickly and heavily. Whereas Boeing took weeks to ever acknowledge its role
in the Boeing MAX crashes, CEO David Calhoun, who had been a Boeing board member back then, is now “shaken to the bone” by the latest Alaska
Airlines incident.
He may have been trying a little too hard to humanize Boeing on a CNBC interview claiming to be personally “devastated” and “emotional” (while
seemingly fighting back tears) given that he had just spent a week with his kids and grandkids. The conversation stopped short of any mention of
puppies or kittens at home.
Regardless, the contrast between the old Dave and the new Dave is drastic and from a PR perspective, borderline bipolar. It would instead seem that
the company is now executing an about-face communications strategy to come across as cuddly, but may have overdone it by instead coming across as
deliberate and premeditated.”
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digcolnagos
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No final conclusions, but smart money says that the plug wasn't bolted in.
But wait, there's more.
The c-ckpit door came open when the plug fell out, much to the surprise fo the flight crew. Boeing had designed the c-ckpit door to open in event of
depressurization, but the company hadn't put that in the manual or otherwise told airlines.
But wait, there's more.
Last summer, Boeing discovered that a subcontractor had drilled superfluous fastening holes in fuselages, other holes weren't properly aligned and
some were oval instead of round. This is the same company that supplied the fuselage and plug that fell out.
But wait, there's more.
In 2021, Boeing paid a $2.5 billion fine to resolve criminal charges alleging the company had lied to the FAA about the faulty system that caused two
fatal crashes in 2018 and 2019. That same year, empty tequila bottles were found in a Boeing plane under construction on order from the government to
be the next Air Force One.
But wait, there's more.
The media reported last fall that Boeing CEO David Calhoun was allowing executives to work from home. Imagine: They've got a dumpster fire of a
company going on and they don't have to go to the office. Boeing HQ are in Washington D.C., far from any manufacturing operations, which is, itself,
problematic.
But wait, there's more.
Calhoun, who has an accounting degree but no engineering background, is paid $22 million a year. Last year, the company canceled a $7 million bonus
due if he got the 777X into production by the end of 2023. To Calhoun's credit, the plane is not yet in production, but what kind of company, given
Boeing's recent problems, would create an incentive to rush a new aircraft into the sky?
We can't lose Boeing, the only commercial aircraft manufacturer in the United States and one of only two in the world. Boeing seems to know this and
has behaved accordingly. Allowing exec's to work from home is the prime example, I think, of the company's arrogance and cavalier attitude. Airbus
also relies heavily on contractors and suppliers, but their planes don't crash. It took 18 minutes to evacuate the Airbus plane that caught fire in
Japan after a runway collision and not a single person was seriously hurt. Would anyone be surprised if, it had been a 737, the plane would have
instantly turned into a ball of flame, inside and out, because Boeing had made fuel tanks out of plastic and installed them in overhead bins?
The government needs to put Boeing under some sort of trustee or receiver who has an engineering degree and let that person run the company, carte
blanche. If that puts Boeing out of business, so be it. Another company will come along soon enough. But the situation now is dangerous to public
safety and national security.
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AKgringo
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I am reading this right after searching for flights to Anchorage. The thought "Is this trip necessary?" comes to mind. 
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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digcolnagos
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | I am reading this right after searching for flights to Anchorage. The thought "Is this trip necessary?" comes to mind. |
Wall Street Journal is reporting that China is re-thinking an order for 737's due for delivery this month. Who could blame them? And who ever would
have imagined fond memories of the DC-10?
Safe travels. And check the seat pocket in front of you. My sources say they're being stocked with rolls of duct tape. Just in case.
[Edited on 1-15-2024 by digcolnagos]
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pacificobob
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The DC-10 is/was a good airplane. Especially after fixing some hydraulic issues. The MD-11 , a subsequent evolution was also good, but not without a
few issues.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos | | Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | I am reading this right after searching for flights to Anchorage. The thought "Is this trip necessary?" comes to mind. |
Wall Street Journal is reporting that China is re-thinking an order for 737's due for delivery this month. Who could blame them? And who ever would
have imagined fond memories of the DC-10?
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Ah, the good old days when we could smoke in the back! Nothing like smoking and drinking on the start of vacation! But cigs always tasted a little
weird on airplanes, i think it was something they added to the air 
I always got a seat in non-smoking, then went back to empty seats in back when we wanted to smoke
The anti-smoking N-zis ruined restaurants, bars and planes with all those healthy laws… 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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On an Alaska Airlines flight from PV to LA I was on years ago, they lost the cabin pressure about an hour after take-off. I never found out why. But
suddenly I was having a hard time breathing and a split second later the masks dropped down and the flight attendants were rushing around helping
people with them.
They never got the cabin pressure back so everyone was wearing the masks until we landed in LA. I get strangely calm in emergency situations and while
other passengers had panicked eyes or were crying, I was just thinking how everyone looked like Miss Piggy in those masks.
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Cliffy
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On all airliners there are a least 3 ways to control pressurization, sometimes 4 way. If one fails you move to the next way and so on.
Automatic normal, automatic stand by, manual AC (electrical), Manual DC electrical)
If the pilot can't recover the pressurization he MUST descend to a lower altitude where people can breathe (usually 10,000 feet above sea level)
At this point the masks are no longer needed.
So IF the failure is in the controller - going to one of the other modes will keep the pressurization working and no decent is required once control
is established. IF the failure is caused by something else then going down to a safe altitude solves the problem.
Either way once taken care of the masks are not required, One should never have to use the emergency mask for the entire remainder of the trip. AND
the available amount of oxygen in that "emergency" system is not enough to supply the passengers for the entire length of the trip anyway. Its just
not needed once the problem is cleared.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | On all airliners there are a least 3 ways to control pressurization, sometimes 4 way. If one fails you move to the next way and so on.
Automatic normal, automatic stand by, manual AC (electrical), Manual DC electrical)
If the pilot can't recover the pressurization he MUST descend to a lower altitude where people can breathe (usually 10,000 feet above sea level)
At this point the masks are no longer needed.
So IF the failure is in the controller - going to one of the other modes will keep the pressurization working and no decent is required once control
is established. IF the failure is caused by something else then going down to a safe altitude solves the problem.
Either way once taken care of the masks are not required, One should never have to use the emergency mask for the entire remainder of the trip. AND
the available amount of oxygen in that "emergency" system is not enough to supply the passengers for the entire length of the trip anyway. Its just
not needed once the problem is cleared. |
Dr google:
Ya, but what if plane depressurizes over ocean, 3 hours from land, and limited fuel prevents flying below 10000?
And then a whole host of questions arise out of malaysian 370 where the capt incapacitated passengers and crew by depressurizing the plane…
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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RFClark
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Rather than argue about how a very complicated AC system works here’s a link to an explanation of the cabin air pressure system in the 777 AC. This
is a part of “how to” videos for the 777AC systems. Other current Boeing AC have similar systems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g3HqdKHXs0
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Cliffy
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Part of being certified to cross the oceans out of reach of land is the requirement to be able to descend to 10,000 feet and complete the trip from
any point on the route with enough fuel to have a reserve amount at the end of the trip.
EVERY airplane crossing the oceans has to meet this requirement.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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