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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9333
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Anyone ever done or thought about doing a van conversion to create a Baja rig?
Where would you start to convert something like this:
To something like this:
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2352
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Looking forward to 2024
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JZ,
Budget?
[Edited on 2-4-2024 by RFClark]
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9333
Registered: 10-3-2003
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My youngest kid lives with us and is studying industrial design. I want to give him the project. The blue van is about $24K w/50K miles.
Thinking to do the first project well below what a full on Sportsmobile would be.
Maybe $20K to $40K beyond the cost of the van?
[Edited on 2-4-2024 by JZ]
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advrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 1847
Registered: 10-2-2015
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Add 4 wheel drive and look for an aftermarket top to add to the van. Should be some stuff on youtube. I think the tops are glued on now with an epoxy,
so no welding. Build a couple of cool bumpers and your good to go.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9333
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Tell me more about this.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 638
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
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I'm on my 4th Baja van (third 4x4 van), so definitely have some opinions. I am budget-minded and do most of my own modifications. Definitely not one
to plunk down $100K+ for something to beat up in Baja or have every thief eyeballing it.
That is a good start with a van on a truck (ladder chassis) frame. Ford E250 (3/4 ton) or better, an E350 (1 ton). The extended "Supervan" is nice for
camping and extra gear. The rear overhang and compromised departure angle are limiting when it comes to rockcrawling.
You wouldn't be disappointed in the power of the V-10 engine, but if you will be hurting at the gas pump @ 7-9 mpg. A 5.4L V-8 should be more
economical while still providing plenty of power.
If you can acquire an older van with a 7.3L diesel (Ford discontinued the 7.3 around 2004), a buddy got 16 mpg highway with conservative speeds.
Research carefully before considering a diesel engine; the newer engines have mixed reviews, expensive repairs and maintenance, and ever more
restrictive emissions requirements.
OEM axle gearing would ideally be 3.73 ratio for up to 33" tires. But if you doing the labor to install locking diffs, the additional parts to regear
to 4.10 is only a few hundred dollars. With a lift and some liberal trimming, you might be able to run 35" tires. Research that as I can't say for
sure.
Front axle for the conversion should be OEM Ford parts. Dana 60 preferred, but a Dana 44 will do the job. Manual locking hubs, not automatic locking.
Warn Premium Hubs (the basic model will grenade, don't ask how I know).
Install locking diffs front and rear, Eaton E-Locker (electro-magnetic ball-ramp mechanism for engagement) are durable and trouble free. ARB is also
good but problematic to retain pneumatic pressure and internal oil seal (again, don't ask).
Bumpers don't have to be exotic. I see a lot of 4x4 vans with $8-10k in bumpers. "Aluminess" in Santee makes nice looking aluminum bumpers. Nice
looking for mall-crawling, that is. I refused to put my Hi-Lift jack under a friend's for fear of bending his expensive bumper. Steel bumpers can be
repaired or modified with a stick welder or MIG.
What's with all the vans with the ladder mounted on the side? I laugh at the sight every time one drives past! It screams "wannabe". My apologies to
any Nomads who have one. I would have destroyed dozens of ladders by now or left one on numerous trees/chaparral. Either mount it to the rear door, or
learn to climb!
Warn 12,000 or 15,000 lb. winch. I prefer steel wire rope for infrequent use and durability/longevity. At least one, if not two high strength snatch
blocks in the recovery kit to double your line-pull power. You could try a Chinese knockoff, such as, Harbor Freight's "Badlands" for 1/2 or 1/3 the
cost. It might work when you are in a desperate situation.
Get black or dark blue exterior paint if you want to look "cool". Get white, silver or desert beige if you want to be cool.
I heard from someone recently planning to convert an E350 to 4x4 by a company in Utah. So, that may be Advanced Four Wheel Drive. iirc, $12-15k now,
up from $8-10k a decade ago. http://advanced4x4vans.com/4x4-van/ford-4x4-van-conversion/
Quigley of Pennsylvania produced a lot of 4x4 conversions on new (from the factory) vans. You find these on the used market. They used a solid front
axle with coil springs. Many problems with the steering geometry. A decade or more ago, Quigley switched over to solid axle with leaf springs, like
everyone else. Leaf springs are certainly my preference, as I can modify the spring rate to my liking by adding or subtracting a leaf.
Sportsmobile does the fiberglass camper top conversions. Not without some minor problems. They camper-ized Quigley 4x4 conversions years ago, then
started doing their own 4x4 conversions.
If money is no object, Sportsmobile will work with you on a custom build to your specs.
For Baja, you will want an onboard air system, incl air fittings front and rear. Definitely a larger aftermarket fuel tank. A 20 gallon OEM tank
drains quickly. I believe Transfer Flow has a good one. https://www.transferflow.com/
My choice is BFG All Terrain KO2, load range E tires. Of course, opinions will vary.
Fox 2.0 emulsion shocks (rebuildable) and a steering stabilizer. Agile Offroad in Santee can get the right tune for the shocks. https://agileoffroad.com/
Install an ABS cutoff switch for offroad use. With ABS active it will take 2x or 3x the distance to stop your heavy van on dirt and gravel roads
(again, don't ask how I know).
Add alarm system with ignition kill, install a fuel pump cutoff switch, locking lug nuts, insure the hell out of it, and have your big dogs protecting
the investment.
Ford E350 extended "Supervan" 6.8L Triton V-10, 3.73 axles, rear ARB Air Locker, Warn 12,000 lb. winch, 33" tires
[Edited on 2-6-2024 by BajaNomad]
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advrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 1847
Registered: 10-2-2015
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Agree with everything Maderit said. The 4x4 conversion is best done with as much stock parts as possible. Lots of conversion and adapters out there.
Might be able to change the tail shaft on the trans to add a transferase, or maybe swap out the whole thing with a wrecked doner.
An F-350 frontend is going to be the go-to, again a little leg work and you can get a deal on one, a shop will probably want 6k or more for a
used one.
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2352
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Looking forward to 2024
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JZ,
If this is a design project consider going electric. Flexible solar panels are much litghter and don’t use glass. You probably need 1000W+ worth of
panels 4 - 12V Li ion batteries and a 4-5KW inverter/charger. Add a shore power plug for park camping.
The flexable panels can be designed into a sun shade and installed on the roof if you do a rased roof van. If you go with a diesel consider a diesel
hot water and heating system.
Show us what your son designs.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9333
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Maderita  | I'm on my 4th Baja van (third 4x4 van), so definitely have some opinions. I am budget-minded and do most of my own modifications. Definitely not one
to plunk down $100K+ for something to beat up in Baja or have every thief eyeballing it.
That is a good start with a van on a truck (ladder chassis) frame. Ford E250 (3/4 ton) or better, an E350 (1 ton). The extended "Supervan" is nice for
camping and extra gear. The rear overhang and compromised departure angle are limiting when it comes to rockcrawling.
You wouldn't be disappointed in the power of the V-10 engine, but if you will be hurting at the gas pump @ 7-9 mpg. A 5.4L V-8 should be more
economical while still providing plenty of power.
If you can acquire an older van with a 7.3L diesel (Ford discontinued the 7.3 around 2004), a buddy got 16 mpg highway with conservative speeds.
Research carefully before considering a diesel engine; the newer engines have mixed reviews, expensive repairs and maintenance, and ever more
restrictive emissions requirements.
OEM axle gearing would ideally be 3.73 ratio for up to 33" tires. But if you doing the labor to install locking diffs, the additional parts to regear
to 4.10 is only a few hundred dollars. With a lift and some liberal trimming, you might be able to run 35" tires. Research that as I can't say for
sure.
Front axle for the conversion should be OEM Ford parts. Dana 60 preferred, but a Dana 44 will do the job. Manual locking hubs, not automatic locking.
Warn Premium Hubs (the basic model will grenade, don't ask how I know).
Install locking diffs front and rear, Eaton E-Locker (electro-magnetic ball-ramp mechanism for engagement) are durable and trouble free. ARB is also
good but problematic to retain pneumatic pressure and internal oil seal (again, don't ask).
Bumpers don't have to be exotic. I see a lot of 4x4 vans with $8-10k in bumpers. "Aluminess" in Santee makes nice looking aluminum bumpers. Nice
looking for mall-crawling, that is. I refused to put my Hi-Lift jack under a friend's for fear of bending his expensive bumper. Steel bumpers can be
repaired or modified with a stick welder or MIG.
What's with all the vans with the ladder mounted on the side? I laugh at the sight every time one drives past! It screams "wannabe". My apologies to
any Nomads who have one. I would have destroyed dozens of ladders by now or left one on numerous trees/chaparral. Either mount it to the rear door, or
learn to climb!
Warn 12,000 or 15,000 lb. winch. I prefer steel wire rope for infrequent use and durability/longevity. At least one, if not two high strength snatch
blocks in the recovery kit to double your line-pull power. You could try a Chinese knockoff, such as, Harbor Freight's "Badlands" for 1/2 or 1/3 the
cost. It might work when you are in a desperate situation.
Get black or dark blue exterior paint if you want to look "cool". Get white, silver or desert beige if you want to be cool.
I heard from someone recently planning to convert an E350 to 4x4 by a company in Utah. So, that may be Advanced Four Wheel Drive. iirc, $12-15k now,
up from $8-10k a decade ago. http://advanced4x4vans.com/4x4-van/ford-4x4-van-conversion/
Quigley of Pennsylvania produced a lot of 4x4 conversions on new (from the factory) vans. You find these on the used market. They used a solid front
axle with coil springs. Many problems with the steering geometry. A decade or more ago, Quigley switched over to solid axle with leaf springs, like
everyone else. Leaf springs are certainly my preference, as I can modify the spring rate to my liking by adding or subtracting a leaf.
Sportsmobile does the fiberglass camper top conversions. Not without some minor problems. They camper-ized Quigley 4x4 conversions years ago, then
started doing their own 4x4 conversions.
If money is no object, Sportsmobile will work with you on a custom build to your specs.
For Baja, you will want an onboard air system, incl air fittings front and rear. Definitely a larger aftermarket fuel tank. A 20 gallon OEM tank
drains quickly. I believe Transfer Flow has a good one. https://www.transferflow.com/
My choice is BFG All Terrain KO2, load range E tires. Of course, opinions will vary.
Fox 2.0 emulsion shocks (rebuildable) and a steering stabilizer. Agile Offroad in Santee can get the right tune for the shocks. https://agileoffroad.com/
Install an ABS cutoff switch for offroad use. With ABS active it will take 2x or 3x the distance to stop your heavy van on dirt and gravel roads
(again, don't ask how I know).
Add alarm system with ignition kill, install a fuel pump cutoff switch, locking lug nuts, insure the hell out of it, and have your big dogs protecting
the investment.
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Hey Maderita, I really appreciated all this detailed and excellent advice! Thank you for taking the time to write it out.
[Edited on 2-4-2024 by JZ]
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9333
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | JZ,
If this is a design project consider going electric. Flexible solar panels are much litghter and don’t use glass. You probably need 1000W+ worth of
panels 4 - 12V Li ion batteries and a 4-5KW inverter/charger. Add a shore power plug for park camping.
The flexable panels can be designed into a sun shade and installed on the roof if you do a rased roof van. If you go with a diesel consider a diesel
hot water and heating system.
Show us what your son designs.
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Will definitely look into it.
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3017
Registered: 5-21-2013
Member Is Offline
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And if you want to go faster on crappy Baja roads the the place to deal with that is:
https://agileoffroad.com/
The shock upgrade is the best thing the sell. Last I checked the were a Fox distributor. The lead guy, Glen, was the ones that designed and built my
96 and my 72 bronco suspension
And of course the sell all kinds of aftermarket special items for mostly vans.
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9333
Registered: 10-3-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by PaulW | And if you want to go faster on crappy Baja roads the the place to deal with that is:
https://agileoffroad.com/
The shock upgrade is the best thing the sell. Last I checked the were a Fox distributor. The lead guy, Glen, was the ones that designed and built my
96 and my 72 bronco suspension
And of course the sell all kinds of aftermarket special items for mostly vans. |
Nice, appreciate the info Paul.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 638
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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de nada JZ
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advrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 1847
Registered: 10-2-2015
Member Is Offline
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The other thing about panels is that they need sun. Portable one's mean you don't have to be roasting in the sun to get power, lay they them out and
park in the shade.
Good suspension is key to bad roads. Leaf springs can be made to work pretty good, but coils are king, but$$$ as well.
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bajaric
Senior Nomad
Posts: 610
Registered: 2-2-2015
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I have looked at vans, would be nice to not have to crawl in and out of the back of a pickup truck with a camper shell. The problem is the price.
There are tons of old beat-up high mileage cargo vans on the market for cheap, but most of them have live a hard life. To get a late model van the
cost is the same as a truck, then you have to do a whole bunch of custom work to the suspension to get the same performance as a stock 4x4 truck you
can buy off the shelf. I can't even afford one of those! Well I could but I am way too cheap to fork out sixty grand for a vehicle when I have a
perfectly serviceable low mileage 2WD f150 that cost 29K new in 2016 and gets 25 mpg on the highway. I will admit I have occasionally had to turn
around and wished I had 4x4, especially in sand or on really steep grades.
[Edited on 2-5-2024 by bajaric]
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 638
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
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bajaric,
Impressive fuel mileage! Do you have the 5.4L, V8?
If you have never had a locking rear differential in a 2WD, you'd be amazed at the difference it makes. I frequently engage my selectable rear locker,
saving 4WD for "insurance" to be used only when 2WD locked does not provide enough traction. Those instances are rare.
I have to admit, it's a bit of a game with me as to what I can do in 2WD with a rear locker. I've encountered a few situations where conventional
4x4's with open diffs couldn't climb the hill and I had little difficulty. That is the case in two distinct situations:
Where there is little traction on one side (either passenger side or driver's side) of the vehicle, conventional 4WD and open diffs will spin both
tires on that side. The tires on the side with better traction do nothing to assist.
The other situation is hills or obstacles with staggered holes. Trails often develop holes/ruts where open diffs have caused a front right and left
rear tire to spin, and vice versa. The 2WD with a rear locker may achieve better traction. It helps that when climbing a hill, more weight shifts to
the rear axle.
A limited-slip differential (aka: Positraction) is better than an open diff, but nowhere near as effective as a locking diff. Selectable (part-time)
lockers are best for most folks. Unless the primary purpose and frequent use is for serious offroad. I've had full-time lockers, and their highway
manners need getting used to.
An Econoline van with a suspension lift, offroad shocks, a locking rear diff, and all-terrain tires might just serve you well, and on a reasonable
budget.
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bajaric
Senior Nomad
Posts: 610
Registered: 2-2-2015
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Hi Maderita, that is some good information to ponder. I am going to have to start researching locking rear differentials and suspension upgrades for
a 2WD van.
To be truthful my truck might get 25 mpg on a flat road with a wind behind it, usually it is closer to 23 on the highway. It is a basic stock F150
regular cab with a 2.7l turbocharged "ecoboost" engine, around town it gets maybe 18. However, that tiny little engine puts out 300 plus horsepower.
It is pretty quick when passing etc. though I am not sure how much towing I would do with it, no substitute for cubic inches.
The other thing is that it came with stock street tires, and they do not make all terrains to fit that size rim. So not a super hard core offroad
machine by any stretch, though the long wheelbase and rear wheel drive will get it a lot of places. Basically, anywhere a Mexican rancher can get to,
which is a lot of Baja.
My dream rig would be an innocuous looking van like an e250 with the upgrades you suggested and a little ebike dirtbike. Then park the van in the
campground and go off exploring on the ebike.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 638
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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bajaric,
I've had vans since the late 1970s. Always liked to be able to pull over and sleep, keep my gear out of view and locked up, have lots of cargo space
and a long rooftop for kayaks, etc. I've always maintained a second 4x4 for lighter/faster trips or rockcrawling/dunes - various Jeeps and full-size
Broncos mostly.
Lifting the rear suspension of an Econoline is easy. Just add a pair of lift blocks, and the longer U-bolts. Look for blocks with the built-in taper,
or use degree shims to maintain correct pinion shaft angle. Add longer shocks, which you would want to replace anyway for offroading.
I haven't lifted the front of an Econoline, though I imagine it is much the same as lifting a 2WD F-series pickup.
Check out the Eaton E-Locker here.
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catalog/differentials/eaton-e...
Eaton has some good basic info here:
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/products/differentials-tracti...
Don't even think about using a drop-in type of locker to save money.
It will cost waaay more when it grenades and you end up having to rebuild the entire axle (don't ask how I know).
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
Posts: 2244
Registered: 4-23-2006
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Don't forget to include conspicuous sand ladders. Preferably orange in color.
Perhaps an overpriced silly fuel container or two.
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sandpoint
Junior Nomad
Posts: 44
Registered: 10-30-2013
Member Is Offline
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I believe U-Joint Off Road sells one of the best engineered 4wd conversion kits for the Ford Vans.
https://www.ujointoffroad.com/products/e-series-4x4-conversi...
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