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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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Tires again....
Will be needing new tires for my 4x4 soon....245 75r 16....I like bfg's a/t but they cut gas mileage about 2 mpg on my old truck....was wondering
what else is available/recomended...got some ideas?....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Futura Dakota H/T mfg. by Cooper and sold at Pep Boys... simular tread style to All Terrain T/A'S but 1/3 to 1/2 the price.
Bedman introduced me to them, and I am very happy as they are quiet... and cheap (compared to BFG). I have 265/70-16" on my Tacoma.
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
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Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
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Mood: In love!
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The problem with David K's choice is like most tires, Cooper's only have two ply sidewalls. BFG t/a's and some Goodyear's have three. His argument is
Cooper;s are cheaper and you can get a warrantee for road hazard. I am willing to pay more and have less trouble in the middle of nowhere. You pays
your money and makes your choice. Any tire, if larger, will reduce your gas mileage.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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Michelin ATX E-rated come with 4 ply sides and 6 ply treads.
They are quiet, get good mileage and last forever.
I've never had a flat (other than a nail) in two sets of these tires on my F250 4x4. Much of the mileage was with heavy camper off roading as well.
Spend the money ! They last longer and the value of not having to change a flat in the cold mud is invaluable !
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bajaloco
Nomad
Posts: 159
Registered: 12-5-2002
Location: Huntington Beach, California
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Mood: wishin I was fishin
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Bite the bullet and go for the BFG's. Buying tires is kinda like auto insurance...you get what you pay for when you really need it.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
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Location: South of the broder
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I've changes sizes from 235 85r16 on my F250 to 265 75 R 16 and it doesn't affect the speedometer at all. The larger tire with lower profile is the
same height. Have checked this with my GPS to make sure of my speed. The extra width helps in sandy areas.
No Bad Days
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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The problem with tires is that 95 % of driving is done on the highway and you must put up with noise and reduced gas mileage until you finally get the
benefit they provide off-road.....used to have two sets...one street and the other BAJA....same size ...different tread pattern.....this works well
but you have to change them back at the end of a trip....will look at your suggestions.....
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Tires
I agree with all these posts below David K. (sorry David) You usually get what you pay for. (first time I do not agree with David K.)
On my F-250 ext. cab w/heavy 1000lb Callen Camper I went from 235's by Dunlop to 285R-75X16's BFG's (much wider, and lower tire pressure, which ='s
much more flotation in sand, and much more comfort on washboard/rocky roads) and they did not effect my gas mileage one iota with the HUGE 460 engine
(stick shift)----10mpg no matter what I do. I love those BFG's!!-----quiet, and wear like iron. I carry 45 lbs in rear, 35 in front on the
pavement,----- dropping them down to 30 rear and 20 front in heavy sand or in the rocks. (even lower if I am getting stuck).
Truck rides like a dream (Bilsteen front and KYA shocks in rear, with add-a-leafs fore and aft, but no "overloads").
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Neal Johns
The problem with David K's choice is like most tires, Cooper's only have two ply sidewalls. BFG t/a's and some Goodyear's have three. His argument is
Cooper;s are cheaper and you can get a warrantee for road hazard. I am willing to pay more and have less trouble in the middle of nowhere. You pays
your money and makes your choice. Any tire, if larger, will reduce your gas mileage. |
>>> Futura Dakota H/T mfg. by Cooper and sold at Pep Boys... simular tread style to All Terrain T/A'S but 1/3 to 1/2 the price.
Bedman introduced me to them, and I am very happy as they are quiet... and cheap (compared to BFG). I have 265/70-16" on my Tacoma. <<<
Never had a sidewall leak on 2 sets of the Dakotas or 2 sets of BFG Rugged Trails (also 2 ply sides) I had first. However, I am always seeing sidewall
leaks on the All Terrain T/As.. it seems!
Neal, remember Amo Pescar's brand new All Terrains that got a sidewall leak (on a sandy road near Yubay)? We were plugging it at the camp we shared
with you near San Gregorio.
Anyway, if money is not an issue, get the BFGs. However, if you want a recommendation for a cheap tire that is good in Baja and quiet on the highway,
then go to Pep Boys and check out the Dakotas. 
[Edited on 4-18-2005 by David K]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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OK, David----I bow to your experience----for now, anyway (-:
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Too many problems with BFGs All-Terrain TAs for me - especially with blown sidewalls - and no problems (except driver error issues) with Bridgestone
Dueler A/T tires.
The number of sidewall plies isn't indicative of the strength of the sidewall. Depends on many factors, including the materials in the ply, the
thickness of the ply, etc.
At Tire Rack, the fav is the Dueler A/T Revo:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.js...
--
Doug
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNomad
Too many problems with BFGs All-Terrain TAs for me - especially with blown sidewalls - and no problems (except driver error issues) with Bridgestone
Dueler A/T tires.
The number of sidewall plies isn't indicative of the strength of the sidewall. Depends on many factors, including the materials in the ply, the
thickness of the ply, etc.
At Tire Rack, the fav is the Dueler A/T Revo:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.js...
--
Doug |
the last set of BFGs All-Terrain TAs I bought ended with 3 blown sidewalls and one tread separation. 100 % highway use. and always proper presser.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Past Experience rules
It is much clearer to me now why all these tire companies stay in business-------past experience dictates people's preferences.
Viva la difference!!!! (-:
(of course, I still think I am right)
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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When replacing worn-out tires, many people simply rely on the recommendation of the salesperson at the tire retailer when making their purchase
decision. If you want to make a more informed choice, it's helpful to know something about the alphanumeric codes that are printed on the sidewalls of
all commercial tires. This series of numbers and letters may seem baffling at first, but it's actually fairly simple to decode, and each element
conveys some useful information. If you don't want to commit all of the codes to memory, simply ask your tire retailer for a brochure or leaflet that
explains them. Retailers are required by law to make this information available.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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Tire codes
Looking at the sidewall of a tire, you'll see a series of raised numbers and letters such as P 205/55 R 16 88V. Following is a summary of the
information you can gain from those markings.
Type of vehicle. The letter at the beginning of the series (figure A) designates the type of vehicle for which the tire is intended to be used. The P
in our example indicates that the tire is intended for a passenger vehicle. Other designations include "LT" for light truck and "T" for a temporary or
spare tire.
Tire width. The first number in the series denotes the width of the tire, measured across the tread from sidewall to sidewall (figure B). The
measurement is expressed in millimeters. In our example, the tire is 205 millimeters wide. The appropriate tire width relates to the width of the rim
on which it will be mounted.
Aspect ratio. Following the slash mark, the second number in the series (figure C) denotes the ratio of the tire's sidewall measurement to its height.
In our example the 55 means that this tire's height is 55 percent of its width. Tires with lower numbers are referred to as low-profile tires.
Tire type or construction. The second letter in the series is known as the construction code and indicates the type of tire. More specifically, it
indicates the type of ply construction in the tire's casing. In our example R indicates that this is a radial tire. Most tires today are steel-belted
radial tires, meaning that the cords that make up the belt are made from steel. It also means that the cords making up the belt run radially around
the tire -- at an angle perpendicular to the tire's bead. (The bead is the steel hoop made into the inner perimeter of the tire that holds the tire
securely on the wheel-rim.) Other possible designations include "B" for belted-bias tires, "D" for diagonal or bias-ply tires or "E" for elliptical.
These latter designations are far less common in contemporary tires.
Wheel diameter. The next number is the diameter of the wheel's rim, measured in inches. In our example 16 means that the tire is made to fit on a
wheel that is 16 inches wide.
Load index. Following the wheel diameter is a number that corresponds to a maximum load capacity (figure D) -- the amount of weight the tire can
safely carry assuming that each tire is filled to maximum inflation capacity. Finding the weight associated with each number requires looking up the
number in a load-index chart. In our example, a tire with a load index of 88 has a maximum load-carrying capacity of 1,235 pounds. Most
passenger-vehicle tires fall within a load-index range between 75 and 105. That index-range corresponds to load capacities ranging from 853 to 2,039
pounds. The load index is often given in association with a speed rating.
Speed rating. Following the load index, some tires list a speed rating (figure E). This designation generally appears only on performance tires and
indicates the maximum safe speed for which the tire may be used. The speed rating uses an alphabetic code with specific speeds associated with
individual letters. Higher speeds are generally associated with letters toward the end of the alphabet. In our example, V indicates that the tire is
certified for speeds up to 149 mph. Contrary to the assumption made by many consumers, the speed rating does not pertain to the tire's performance
capabilities at high speeds. Rather, it is solely a measure of the tire's ability to withstand the heat generated by driving at high speeds. Tires
with lower speed ratings will deteriorate faster as a result of heat if the vehicle on which they are used is frequently driven at high speeds. Not
all tires are speed-rated, but if your car originally came with speed-rated tires, replacements should also be speed-rated. Following is a list of
letters used in speed ratings and the speed in mph associated with each.
F = 50 mph
G = 56 mph
J = 62 mph
K = 68 mph
L = 75 mph
M = 81 mph
N = 87 mph
P = 93 mph
Q = 100 mph
R = 106 mph
S = 112 mph
T = 118 mph
U = 124 mph
H = 130 mph
V = 149 mph
Z = 149+ mph
The tire code may contain one final element that is simply the manufacturer's name or a descriptive designation for the tire.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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Additional information
In addition to the large, raised figures that make up the tire code, there is additional relevant information that you may find printed on the tire's
sidewall. These remaining indicators will probably be embossed on the tire in smaller-size print along its inner or outer perimeter (figure F).
The temperature rating is an indicator of how well the tire withstands heat buildup. "A" is the highest rating; "C" is the lowest.
The traction rating is an indicator of how well the tire is capable of stopping on wet pavement. "A" is the highest rating; "C" is the lowest.
The tread-wear rating gives a comparative rating for the useful life of the tire's tread. A tire with a tread-wear rating of 200, for example, could
be expected to last twice as long as one with a rating of 100. Tread-wear grades typically range between 60 and 600 in 20-point increments. It is
important to consider that this is a relative indicator, and the actual life of a tire's tread will be affected by quality of road surfaces, type of
driving, correct tire inflation, proper wheel alignment and other variable factors.
The DOT code indicates that the tire complies with safety standards set out by the U.S. Department of Transportation and is approved for highway use.
The DOT code contains specific information about where and when an individual tire was made.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Hmmmm... isn't this interesting. I am sure there has been an extensive discussion on BFGs before... I do remeber that Bajaboy was very happy with his
Mud Terrain T/As that seem to last forever and never get flats... but some sacrifice to road noise. Cooper/Futura has their version of it, as well.
Just to be clear, I am not putting down BFGs except for their price and 3 ply bragging... as they are profiting greatly from being the noted best tire
in Baja. I went to Discount Tires to buy them, and for my 16" tires they were $170 each. I went to Pep Boys and the Futura Dakotas were $65 each!!!
The second set saw an increase to $80... but that is almost $100 per tire savings, or more than half the price cheaper than BFGs.
I have heard from others about the fact Doug brought up, that the side wall material is more important than the number of sidewall plys. If 2 plys of
brand C are a total of 6 mm thick and 3 plys of brand B are only 4 mm thick then 2 plys are better than three in this example, right? I am not a tire
expert, so don't know if that is actually the case... Maybe worth investigating.
I will admit to seeing that All Terrain TAs seem to last longer... I am just not sure if they last 3 times longer which would be necessary to be a
better value than the cheaper American made Cooper/Futura Dakota tire. I replaced the first set of Dakotas between 25,000 and 30,000 miles. I do know
the BFG 3 ply sidewall is not puncture proof, by a long shot.
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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David...why did you replace at 30K miles?.....under warranty?....
My current tires came with the truck when new...38K miles...but several tires losing air...sidewall cracks...some cuts in the tread....and a patched
sidewall puncture (in baja)....tread still good for the most part....
Have been thinking that with low mileage driving that the age of the tire is more important than the mileage...sort of like a motorhome....makes a
case for cheaper tires that get replaced every 3-4 years.....
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Look at the tread wear code It will go from a low of 50 to a high of 800. the bench mark i 100 a tire with this rating will last about 12 000 miles.
the new tires I just bought for my explorer have a rating of 600 that figure means they will wear about 6 times as much as a 100 rated tire. the other
important code is the temperature rating. for Baja don't buy any tire with Les than an A rating . temperature is the big silent enemy of tires when
they git hot they disintegrate. B and C ratings are for people that only drive to the store and back.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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triarts
Newbie
Posts: 11
Registered: 3-11-2005
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i followed tire racks recommendations and got the revos. have had them since august 2004 and put 12,000 miles on them with no problems. they are
very quiet at highway speeds. i go to san quintin one a month but had only one ocassion to go off road, but they did better than my stock generals.
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