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4x4abc
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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 05:04 PM


what would Las Palomas translate to on today's map?



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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 05:22 PM


is there a published log of Linck's journey?



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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 06:28 PM


Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
what would Las Palomas translate to on today's map?


Again, poorly located, in reality is just, or was just, a few miles westward of La Miseria.




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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 06:30 PM


Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
is there a published log of Linck's journey?


Yes, the entire expedition diary of Padre Linck is published in English. It is Volume #5 of the Dawson Book Shop, Baja California Traveler Series.




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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 07:02 PM


any online source?




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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 09:13 PM


Hi David, the primary source for La Hermosura is Del Barco page 344. It's at the end of the section covering the Linck expedition. Just read it again, yeah they actually returned to Chapala later the same year before the founding of Calamajue and not the following year.

Credit goes to Sahagun (2000) for first pointing out that La Hermosa is Keda.

https://www.historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/...

[Edited on 7-22-2021 by Lance S.]

[Edited on 7-22-2021 by Lance S.]

[Edited on 7-22-2021 by Lance S.]

[Edited on 7-22-2021 by Lance S.]
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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 09:44 PM


https://www.academia.edu/43239233/Rancho_Codornices_Great_Mu...
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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 09:55 PM


Thank you, Lance... I will study these!



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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 10:51 PM
Figuring out the places


Let me clarify the rancho and San Antonio
The Rancho known as Condornices (ranch not shown on the Almac or the Atlas). And this ranch does not appear on Google earth.
The place nbentley1 found was San Antonio (AB) a small rancho on the road between the west coast north to Highway 1 at K257. This place is north of the new rancho discussed below.
The Almac shows a place called Condornices, but that label is west of the present functional rancho.

In the image below shows the existing roads with a loop to Antonio and back to the main road.

San  Antonio.jpg - 75kB

In this image I show the Cal Topo version with an old version of the road. The road shown was very overgrown on my first trip, but now that left side of the loop is an easy drive.


Cal Topo image.jpg - 204kB

Next is a screen shot from my GPS showing the old version like Cal Topo



IMG_1300.jpg - 82kB

The next image shows the roads near Rancho Condornices. The GPS call that place “San Antonio”. I put “Rancho Condornices” label there.



Rancho Cord.jpg - 131kB
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[*] posted on 7-21-2021 at 11:08 PM


so, which location is Keda/La Hermosura - 1 or 2?
1 - 29°11'43.62"N, 114°19'1.05"W
2 - 29°11'15.69"N, 114°17'51.46"W




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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 05:28 AM


So nbentley1 found the original San Antonio site which has since moved down the arroyo to its current location?
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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 05:32 AM


Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
so, which location is Keda/La Hermosura - 1 or 2?
1 - 29°11'43.62"N, 114°19'1.05"W
2 - 29°11'15.69"N, 114°17'51.46"W


Maybe david can show the location of the old rancho codornices. La Hermosura was at or near there I believe. It took Linck half an hour to reach it from aqua leon.
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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 09:38 AM


Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Let me clarify the rancho and San Antonio
The Rancho known as Condornices (ranch not shown on the Almac or the Atlas). And this ranch does not appear on Google earth.
The place nbentley1 found was San Antonio (AB) a small rancho on the road between the west coast north to Highway 1 at K257. This place is north of the new rancho discussed below.
The Almac shows a place called Condornices, but that label is west of the present functional rancho.

In the image below shows the existing roads with a loop to Antonio and back to the main road.

In this image I show the Cal Topo version with an old version of the road. The road shown was very overgrown on my first trip, but now that left side of the loop is an easy drive.




Next is a screen shot from my GPS showing the old version like Cal Topo





The next image shows the roads near Rancho Condornices. The GPS call that place “San Antonio”. I put “Rancho Condornices” label there.








Just to confirm this, here are my GPS tracks from the trip

Map3.png - 275kB
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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 09:43 AM


Historic Rancho Codornices and San Antonio are the same ranch.
Harald, I will need to get on my PC to see where your waypoints are, heading to the beach soon!




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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 09:45 AM


Some maps call the abandoned rancho at the apex of that little bend in the road Rancho San Antonio, some call it Rancho Las Codornices. The 2009 BCA calls it both names. Same place, two names. A different place called Cordornices is shown on the Baja California Almanac by a cross symbol but it is about ten miles west of the area in question.

As noted, there are some modern ranchos in the area that may be periodically occupied. The old well at San Antonio/Codornices was probably hand dug and went dry. It has been said that this general area has the least rainfall of anywhere in Baja. Its too far south to get the northern cold fronts in the winter, and too far north to get the tropical moisture in the summer.

If the missionaries were having such a hard time locating a mission in this general area I wonder why they did not pick Catavina, which seems to have plenty of water, or nearby Santa Ynez, instead picking Santa Maria where there was virtually no arable land for crops or grazing.

edit:

To answer my own question after thinking about it, the main diet of the indigenous in that area was sea food (turtles and scallops), so they might have wanted to locate the mission close enough to the Sea to enable the Indians to forage for wild food if needed, as was common in the missionary period.




[Edited on 7-22-2021 by bajaric]
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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 10:43 AM
Baja Topographic Atlas Directory


Shows both names, same place


page B93 - scan is a little blurry eh?

The "Directory" also shows Codornices 10 miles or so west - with a slightly different spelling, leaving out the first "r"

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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 10:53 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
so, which location is Keda/La Hermosura - 1 or 2?
1 - 29°11'43.62"N, 114°19'1.05"W
2 - 29°11'15.69"N, 114°17'51.46"W


Maybe david can show the location of the old rancho codornices. La Hermosura was at or near there I believe. It took Linck half an hour to reach it from aqua leon.


cool! But where is Agua Leon?




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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 11:07 AM


there are 6 ranchos in the vicinity
please fill in the names



Screen Shot 2021-07-22 at 12.04.23 PM copy 2.jpg - 301kB




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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 11:12 AM


here is what's in the INEGI database (last census)

Screen Shot 2021-07-22 at 12.10.42 PM copy.jpg - 312kB




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[*] posted on 7-22-2021 at 01:55 PM


The rancher that lives at the 4th pin from the left also owns the pin labeled El Sauce if that is the only ranch in that location. He told me he owned a ranch further to the west.

Also nbentley1's GPS reading show him near or at Ranch San Antonio/Codornices but his pictures don't look nothing like what I saw when I was there. Of course it's been several years since I was at the site. I remember lots of palm trees and no tree like his picture shows.

But I'm getting old so who knows. John M and I will have to make another trip down there to clear everything up.
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