BajaNomad - A Double Shakedown in Constitución

A Double Shakedown in Constitución

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gnukid - 7-19-2010 at 05:54 PM

Well done, thanks for pointing out the false bad spanish technique, sometimes I use it right back! Que? Pos-nomemolestes-pos, por-que nomeconoces-pos?

Peloncito - 7-19-2010 at 10:31 PM

So, I already posted my southern direction experience in C.C. getting hit up for the mordida. This time, heading north, my wife was driving and I was armed with my camera. I told my wife to stop at every signal (even if it was green), every stop sign and every crosswalk.

I looked up and saw a woman walking across the center lane of traffic in the middle of a block, outside of the crosswalks. I told my wife to hang back because this looked like it could be a potential hazard for those of us driving through lately.

Unfortunately, a fellow Baja tourist and possibly a registered Nomad, drove past us on the right frontage road easily under the speed limit. Even though the pedestrian was completely across the center lane the police truck pulled in behind the maroon Ford and pulled them over. I can only speculate that the police pulled over the California plated vehicle for not stopping for the woman crossing the street, but it seemed like a possible reason for the extortion process.

I took the photo of the harassment, police looked over at me as we drove by and we were out of there, no mordida this time through. If the driver of the Ford Explorer is a member here, I hope you talked your way out of the fine!

Iflyfish - 7-19-2010 at 10:50 PM

Peloncito

Thank you very much for this post. I hope that the guy who was stopped was a Nomad who reads this thread. Good job on taking the photos.

There is strength in numbers and we have numbers.

Again I want to thank you for posting your experience. It's nice to know that as Nomads we cover each others backs.

I notice that the truck is numbered 008.

First round is on me!!

Iflyfish

I

Iflyfish - 7-20-2010 at 05:05 PM

Bump

Baja&Back - 7-20-2010 at 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

What I as a long time Guest of Baja Sur resent is the complete Audicity of People like you who come to Baja and insist that the People change to your way of thinking __Just for Money>????

Hey, Skeet, nothing to do with "way of thinking" - the law is the law.
It is illegal in the Republic of Mexico to extort or receive a bribe. It is illegal to OFFER a bribe.
Both parties here are committing a Federal offence!!
President Calderon has spent his entire tenure fighting corruption like this.
:fire:

Maybe best to send the President your letters.

Iflyfish - 7-22-2010 at 07:06 AM

bump

Iflyfish - 7-23-2010 at 09:14 AM

Anyone been thru the gauntlet recently? How did it go? Good news is also welcome!

Iflyfish

monoloco - 7-23-2010 at 03:54 PM

Drove through there a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday, no problema.

DENNIS - 7-23-2010 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
Drove through there a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday, no problema.

They're saving you for later.

ncampion - 7-23-2010 at 05:07 PM

I have to go to La Paz in a week or so. I'm thinking about removing my license plates, that way I'll look just like a Mexican and maybe they'll leave me alone this time through.

.

monoloco - 7-23-2010 at 05:12 PM

Maybe it's because the last time they extorted me I took up a lot of their time and they got a little nervous when I started counting out the feria from my ashtray.

Udo - 7-23-2010 at 05:28 PM

Counting feria from the ash tray...now, that's a classic that we all can use.

DENNIS - 7-23-2010 at 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion
I have to go to La Paz in a week or so. I'm thinking about removing my license plates, that way I'll look just like a Mexican and maybe they'll leave me alone this time through.

.

Probably not. I'm sure that's a CC felony. "Pay double for you."

Iflyfish - 7-25-2010 at 10:48 AM

Anyone been through Ciudad Constitution lately? How was your trip through that town? Both good and bad experiences are helpful to hear about.

Thanks,

Iflyfish

roamingthroughbaja - 7-25-2010 at 11:44 AM

Friends from Calgary drove through 3 weeks ago no problems. Friends from Washington DC drove through on Tuesday, no problems.

Iflyfish - 7-25-2010 at 12:17 PM

Thanks roamingthroughbaja!

This is good news!!! Thanks very much for the update.

I hope others too will post their experiences.

Iflyfish

Frank - 7-25-2010 at 12:21 PM

Ill post my experience from Verdugos Bar in a few days!

karenintx - 7-26-2010 at 06:25 AM

Wanted to share an email I just received from our friends that traveled through CC last week.

My wife and I left Cabo San Lucas about 7am on Wed., July 21 heading for San Diego. We were very impressed with the road construction progress from Cabo to Todos Santos and beyond. Because of all the information on Baja Nomad regarding the mordita in Insurgentes and Constitucion, we stopped in La Paz for gas eliminating the need to stop for gas in those cities. I watched my speed, stopped at all the stop signs and stop lights......it took us longer to get through there because of it, which wasn't a problem as we weren't in any hurry. We didn't see a police officer in either town.....weird....wondered if the recent protest had something to do with it or if they were having lunch as it was about 1pm. Anyway no problems at all. We got to Guerrero Nego about 7:30pm Pacific Time, stayed at the Don Gus Motel and had dinner at their restaurant. We have stayed there before enjoying the people and the food in their restaurant. We continued on Thurs. morning about 7am and headed for Ensenada. There was lots of construction along the way so it also took us longer than usual. Think there will be a major improvements on the road........We arrived in Ensenada without a problem, staying at the Casa Del Sol. We left there about 8am the next morning getting in the line to cross the border about 9:30am and not getting through until 10:50......wasn't too bad -- at least it wasn't terribly hot! No problem getting through the border............So all in all we had a great trip. Hope this settles some fears that others may have on the long journey north.

Their return trip will be in about three months so I will ask for a road report when coming south.

DENNIS - 7-26-2010 at 08:00 AM

I believe it will take a span of time without extortion to convince the traveling public that things have changed although positive stories like the one above are promising.
Thanks, Karen.

Iflyfish - 7-26-2010 at 09:38 AM

Thank you for your very interesting and informative post. I hope that people will continue to post their experiences, both good and bad, traveling thru Ciudad Constitution. Dennis is right about it taking time to see if this extortion of US Citizens by Police in Ciudad Constitution has really stopped. We have all learned from these posts that there are successful ways to deal with this criminal behavior if it happens. You can read a summary of our collective currrent strategy for dealing with this issue below.

If you are stopped by police in Ciudad Constitution and threatened with a ticket for something you did not do then please report the details to:

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

If you are stopped by a policeman in CC and they try to extort money from you , this approach that has been used successfully to stop this crime.

Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks. Follow the 18 mph speed limit. If stopped do the following:
1. stay calm, take your time
2. ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender your drivers license
3. let cop know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910
4. insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine
5. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
6. remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
7. Drive in the right hand lane and look local, don't make eye contact with a cop.
8. Let every one you know that there is a serious problem with police extortion on the ONLY highway that connects Baja N with Baja S and that each day the city of Ciudad Constitution loses thousands of dollars in lost revenue because of this.

Iflyfish

Pompano - 7-26-2010 at 09:55 AM

I guess I've been lucky in all the times I've driven cars, motorcycles, trucks, and RV's thru this town..because I've never been stopped...knock on wood.

That does not mean that I am.. or will be.. in denial about what is happening down there to other motoring tourists.

On my next trip through I will have camera and recorder at the ready. Kudos, Iflyfish.

durrelllrobert - 7-26-2010 at 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Udo
[

How does one drool on command, DENNIS :?:

All I can think of is if one of the Tecate beer models walked in front of the car

You mean you don't drive with an inflatible Tecate girl in the passenger seat? Works for me :lol:

Iflyfish - 7-26-2010 at 06:36 PM

This report from twogringos on another thread, posted here for continuity of this thread where people are posting their experience with Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution.

Our encounter with Truch No. 008 in CC

We have had to travel through Ciuadad Constitucion three times in the last 10 days. The first two trips we successfully bypassed the main street by turning to the east at the beginning of the divided road and going 4 blocks to Ave. Cervantes. This is a paved road with three lanes in each direction and divided by a 100 ft wide median. There are only 4 stop signs on this street, so it is much faster that stopping at every signal on the main drag. It has the advantage too that it goes right by the police station which is probably the safest place to drive.

This Sunday morning about 8:30 we entered CC from the south and just before we turned right to take the bypass we saw truck No.008 driving south on the opposite side of the road. He was probably getting in back position for another stake-out. They saw us turning, and sure enough, after we had gone east about 3 blocks they made the same turn and stayed behind us. We made our left on Cervantes and had gone about a kilometer before he closed up and turned on the lights. Our violation was apparently that we completed our left turn on to Cervantes while a car was stopped at the stop sign headed west. According to him we should have stopped some where into the intersection to wait for the other driver to cross.

After explaining this, he asked for my license. I handed him my license with the back side facing to him and he read out loud what I had written there: "No Mordida" and "Villalejos". He didn't read out Villalejos' phone number. He then explained again what I did wrong, handed me back my license and walked back to the truck. He didn't stay long enough for me to ask his name or to tell him there were lots of photos of him on the internet. Next time I'll have to be quicker.

This post again demonstrates how we can deal with this police extortion. Thank you for posting this.

Iflyfish

wessongroup - 7-27-2010 at 07:36 AM

from the other side..

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
May 28 - overstayed my welcome on a street in San Francisco. Left the car parked too long. I had checked on the car and didn't find the normal chalk mark on the tire so I figured I was good since it was so close to 6PM and the end of the 2 hour parking time limit.

6:30PM - returned to car to find parking ticket under wiper. $65, ouch, but my fault, should have moved the car.

June 8 - mailed in check for $65 in envelope provided.

June 28 - check clears our bank.

July 23 - notice of delinquent parking violation payment arrives. I owe $90. If I don't pay by July 22, I owe $115.

10:45AM - I check website and it says I owe $50 on citation as of July 23. No other information other than the ticket number and amount due.

11AM - call SFMTA, listen to recorded music for 20 minutes, customer rep tells me payment has to be made in "1, 2, or like, 3 days to only pay $65." I now owe $85 ticket + $25 late fee + $25 late fee - $65 payment received = $70. I ask to speak to supervisor.

11:25AM - transferred to supervisor, listen to recorded music for 15 minutes. Voice mail answers. "Ms ----- is not in, please leave a short message blah, blah, blah at the tone." Then, "Sorry, the mailbox you reached is full." Dial tone.

11:40AM - call SFMTA, listen to recorded music for 25 minutes, tell customer service rep that I was cut-off on transfer to supervisor. She says the supervisor is at her desk now and transfers me. Listen to recorded music for 10 minutes. Voice mail answers. "Ms ----- is not in, please leave a short message blah, blah, blah at the tone." Then, "Sorry, the mailbox you reached is full." Dial tone.

12:15PM - call SFMTA, listen to recorded music for 35 minutes, tell customer service rep that I was cut-off on transfer to supervisor twice. This time I don't need to listen to the catchy elevator tunes and the supervisor answers right away.

12:50PM - supervisor confirms that I paid the ticket on time and the amount due was $65 as stated on the ticket left on our car. She says they did receive the check on June 29. Interesting only in that they apparently received the check the day after it cleared our bank account.

"You owe $50. There is a $25 late fee and a $25 out-of-state license fee." I ask her why there is a late fee when she just said it was paid on time. She says she can can cancel that fee and I only owe $25. I ask about the out-of-state fee. She says, "We needed to check with an out-of-state agency in order to get your mailing address to send the delinquent notice. I can't cancel that fee." I point out that they didn't need to track me down because I paid the fine on time. "I can't cancel that fee."

1PM - after a go around with me trying to explain the the out-of-state fee was incurred because of the erroneous delinquent notice and I shouldn't be responsible for it she says, "I can't cancel that fee, but I'll pass it on to management for review. We'll call you back on Monday."

July 26 - me turning blue holding my breath?

Just a thought about all the "brew-haha" on the police collecting money for traffic.... "and the problem is?" ...

Not so sure there all that much difference between the two ... both seem to be about the same.. maybe be the only difference it's more expensive in SF

[Edited on 7-27-2010 by wessongroup]

bajaguy - 7-27-2010 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Just a thought about all the "brew-haha" on the police collecting money for traffic.... "and the problem is?" ...

[Edited on 7-27-2010 by wessongroup]

I don't think the "police" wrote the ticket or are trying to collect the money................

DENNIS - 7-27-2010 at 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Not so sure there all that much difference between the two ... both seem to be about the same.. maybe be the only difference it's more expensive in SF

I would much rather deal with a dishonest person than a predatory computer.

wessongroup - 7-27-2010 at 08:02 AM

Both seem to have their down sides..... but, did find it interesting..

On one hand we have the "personal" approach.. the other ... that super way of working through the "please press" and "X is away from their desk"..

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that anymore... last time I drove, was on July 9th... 9 miles up and 9 miles back from Rosarito.. got waved through the check point, as they recognized me.. in my Bronco..

Have been stopped a number of times.. they liked my "cattle prod", but thought I needed help in getting to the ready with it .. they are sill laughing at me.. was a funny stop for them and me too.. have adopted the "laser" as it is much easier to just pull from my shirt pocket.. or from when clipped to a tee shirt... around the neck.. still have the "cattle prod" and a smaller clip on that is in the car too.. plus a dog.. on occasion..... need to get another one..

[Edited on 7-27-2010 by wessongroup]

boe4fun - 7-27-2010 at 08:57 AM

I wonder if truck #008 is mostly driven by the police officer? Check out the picture on page 16!

DENNIS - 7-27-2010 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boe4fun
I wonder if truck #008 is mostly driven by the police officer? Check out the picture on page 16!

What are we looking for?

[Edited on 7-27-2010 by DENNIS]

Top/bottom

Lee - 7-27-2010 at 02:01 PM

By the way, this law breaker has it all wrong.

If stopped, you need to get out of your vehicle immediately.

Sitting is a passive position and the officer standing, looking down at you, is a dominant position.

That is unless you like being passive.

mtgoat666 - 7-27-2010 at 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
By the way, this law breaker has it all wrong.

If stopped, you need to get out of your vehicle immediately.

Sitting is a passive position and the officer standing, looking down at you, is a dominant position.

That is unless you like being passive.

lee:
yes, show your alpha side. dennis and ifish: take note! get out of car and approach cop with grimace and balled fists :lol:

report back here with results!

DENNIS - 7-27-2010 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
dennis and ifish: take note!

Leave me alone. It's a holiday and I don't want to be bothered. :cool:

Iflyfish - 7-27-2010 at 04:00 PM

Lee,

Ever heard of Passive Aggression?! It is a fine art in Mexico and is called the Chinga. A chinga is taking five minutes to fumble with your wallet, another ten to muster some broken spanish and misunderstand his English and then to spill something before saying "this is so confusing I think we need to go to the station. I wonder if I can buy you a cup of coffee on the way. By the way did I ever tell you the story about the two dogs who......etc.

I once was confronted on a very remote Baja beach by a caretaker of an abandoned hotel, very nice place, hand carved cornice over bar etc. Truckloads of beautiful sea shells had been dumped in piles on the beach. I went beach combing. When the care taker came along he asked me to leave. I of course spoke no espanol si?! and he got louder and then I offered him a shell. That made him more angry and I said "pardmi, I stupido" rummaged around in my pail of shells and then offered him a better one. He threw his arms up in exasperation, yelled some more about stupidido......gringo...pinc. etc. and left. Now that my friend is passive aggression gringo style.

Iflyfishandhaveafairlygoodchinga

DENNIS - 7-27-2010 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
and he got louder and then I offered him a shell. That made him more angry and I said "pardmi, I stupido" rummaged around in my pail of shells and then offered him a better one. He threw his arms up in exasperation, yelled some more about stupidido......gringo...pinc. etc. and left. Now that my friend is passive aggression gringo style.

Sounds like something Zorba would do.

wessongroup - 7-27-2010 at 06:37 PM

Quote:

Or, he swings his rifle up to "action" position...

[Edited on 7-28-2010 by wessongroup]

Sit in your car. Get out of your car. All the same to me.

Lee - 7-27-2010 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup

Or, he swings his rifle up to "action" position...

[Edited on 7-28-2010 by wessongroup]

I've written before: a cop points his weapon at me, I give him some money.

I'll get even later.

This isn't going to happen to me. It might, though, happen to you.

Iflyfish - 7-28-2010 at 08:13 AM

It sounds like the following strategy is being used successfully by Nomads traveling through Ciudad Constitution.

If you are stopped by police in Ciudad Constitution and threatened with a ticket for something you did not do then please report the details to:

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

If you are stopped by a policeman in CC and they try to extort money from you , this approach that has been used successfully to stop this crime.

Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks. Follow the 18 mph speed limit. If stopped do the following:
1. stay calm, take your time
2. ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender your drivers license
3. let cop know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910
4. insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine
5. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
6. remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
7. Drive in the right hand lane and look local, don't make eye contact with a cop.
8. Let every one you know that there is a serious problem with police extortion on the ONLY highway that connects Baja N with Baja S and that each day the city of Ciudad Constitution loses thousands of dollars in lost revenue because of this.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 7-28-2010 at 08:21 AM

C. Wright Mills stated that when personal problems become public issues than social change can occur.

Please keep posting your experiences with current travel through Ciudad Constitution and let us know if you saw police extortion happening and if it happened to you, what did you do?

Thanks,

Iflyfish

Udo - 7-28-2010 at 04:43 PM

The problem may be subsiding somewhat since a newbie, cutexianchick, made it through the gauntlet both ways with no problemas.

Frank - 7-28-2010 at 05:22 PM

I typing this report from Verdugos on the East Cape.

The connection between Insugents and CC is a very long one at 22 mph. I had a Federalie pull along side of me and look inside my truck, I just smiled and waved. He pulled the Semi I was behind over. He passed me again entering CC, without incident.

There is no hiding my truck, I cant look local, so I just drove down the center lanes of CC @ 22 mph.

I only saw one local cop, he was on a moped. I made it through..... slowly and painfully at 40 KPH.

BTW...Where the heat? It sure was cool in Mulege.

Frank

Iflyfish - 7-28-2010 at 07:09 PM

Thanks for the heads up Udo on cutexianchick's passage through CC. This coupled with Frank's and other reports looks good. Recall that the people of CC took to the streets to demonstrate against police corruption in CC and they too may have had an impact, though there has been one report of being pulled over but not shaken down using the info from this thread.

We don't know if this extortion will stop or not, I hope Nomads will continue to post their experiences both positive and negative, it's all useful information to us.

We do know for certain that after many years of discussion on Nomads of different ways to confront police extortion we seem to have evolved a clear and successful way to deal with it. If nothing else comes out of this effort at tilting wind mills we have accomplished a lot.

Keep the reports coming. Your experiences are important to us.

Thank you all for your input into adressing this issue.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 7-28-2010 at 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish

We don't know if this extortion will stop or not,

It won't immediatly. The counter-attack must be kept up. We're fighting tha Baja Taliban.
Perservere, my brothers and sisters. Freedom is in our hands.

longlegsinlapaz - 7-28-2010 at 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Udo
The problem may be subsiding somewhat since a newbie, cutexianchick, made it through the gauntlet both ways with no problemas.

Uhhhhhhhh.....actually what she said was "We got stoped on the way down in CC and let go and nothing on the way back."

Paula - 7-28-2010 at 10:59 PM

Now it can be told!

About the time this thread began we made a trip through Constitucion and back to Loreto, no problem. Knowing we would be making another soon I kept this news to myself, so as not to gloat and have a hex cast upon us. Next round trip, nothing.

Third and fourth trips-- back and forth-- nothing!

We generally went south in the early part of the day, north a bit later. We did see a police van with cops on the road at the north end of town waving people over on two of the trips south. It seemed to be cars with Mexican plates who were being stopped. On the last trip south there was a motor cycle cop who would get behind us, then turn off, and then reappear. I was sure our number was up, but that was not the case, he had no interest in us. We always went along the side lanes, not the center, except for once going north when we were stuck behind some gringo with SD plates who was barely moving--we thought we'd NEVER get out of town :lol:

I don't think this means anything other than that we were lucky to avoid the hassle of a stop by no particularly virtuous behavior on our part. We drove the speed of traffic, and stopped at all of the stop signs we saw.

I just hope that if we need to make the trip again in fall, my report here doesn't come back to bite me in the butt!

Iflyfish - 7-29-2010 at 06:43 AM

Thanks Paula. Glad you were able to get through with out a hitch.

I hope others will also continue to post their experiences, both good and bad so we can sty abreast of what is happening in CC.

Good Job amigos!!

Iflyfish

cutexianchick - 7-29-2010 at 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

Originally posted by Udo
The problem may be subsiding somewhat since a newbie, cutexianchick, made it through the gauntlet both ways with no problemas.

Uhhhhhhhh.....actually what she said was "We got stoped on the way down in CC and let go and nothing on the way back."

Thanks I was just gonna post that I was stopped going down. My husband is Mexican from Mexico and he handled it, I am sure I would have been asked for money if he wasnt there. They were on the right side pulling "everyone" over as you were crossing into town. I was all ready to fight but I didnt get to! The officer said is was doing a "routine check", he wants to know who is coming in and out of the / his city (cant remembered what exactly my husband said). On our way back, a truck was going the other way, he turned around and followed in the other lane a few blocks. No problems just nervous.

By the way... in Guerrero Negro we stppped for breakfast and we met a family traveling from CC to TJ. Of course my husband is overly friendly and this older rancher and him became "best friends". We have a name to drop and look for the next time we are in CC. LOL Anyway whether it is true or not or just hear say... he stated that most people in the city are concerned with what is going on and they are aware of it and dont like it. Known fact they are pulling over US plates... they are mad at the US for what is going on in Arizona.

He stated that the cops are so stupid and dumb (cant read or write very well... LOL) they dont even understand what is going on in Arizona. They state this is there way of getting us back! Again, not sure how true this is, I just am forwarding this information we got from a CC source to all of you!

Iflyfish - 7-29-2010 at 10:34 AM

Thanks cutexianchick, we appreciate the clarification and information. This is the sort of information that is very helpful.

It is clear that there is powerful reaction to Arizona's new laws, but this problem pre-dates that issue. It is just another excuse for their criminal behavior.

It is good to hear again that the locals also do not like this business of extorting money from US Citizens. That sort of action clearly bites a hand that feeds them. We have read about citizens of CC engagine in street demonstration in opposition to police corruption and your post reinforces those concerns, which we share with them.

Thanks again for posting your experience to this thread and I am glad that you felt confident and prepared for a potential shake down. Like Lee has said, your presentation of a confident demeanor is very important in confronting police extortion.

Iflyfish

shari - 7-29-2010 at 10:35 AM

thanks cutex...it is interesting to hear it from the prospective of a local CC rancher and his opinion and account sounds entirely accurate.

oladulce - 7-29-2010 at 10:38 AM

We spent 2 days in Cd C last week for a meeting and multiple errands. Laid low, used evasive techniques to avoid police checkpoints and went WAY out of our way whenever we spotted cops hanging on corners, and parked the truck at the hotel and walked to accomplish as much as we could.

Had one near miss: the police were set up (standing) on both sides of the hwy at the north entrance to town and were eyeballing every vehicle that passed, Mexican plates included. (a friend said they focus on real violations for registration and no seat belts on Mex plates) . We parked a block away and my husb waited for a large truck to pass so he could try and slip behind it, but after 5 min a truck never came so we went anyway and luckily the cop turned his back as we went by and we slipped thru.

And one incident: We parked at a govt building and went in to do CURP registrations. The only street parking spot had dirt piled up as high as the curb so our back tire was raised up to curb height . When we returned to the truck a moto cop pulled up and pointed to the tire saying we had parked on the curb. My husb remained polite and explained that we were actually on the dirt, not the curb.

The cop said he understood but his comandante had driven by and told him to write us up. BigWooo told him we'd gladly discuss things at the cop shop. The fellow told him that because he'd been respectful (paraphrasing) , we could be on our way.

Not a bad trip this time but being constantly on your guard gets tiresome.

Just returned from a few days NOB and I don't think I saw as many cops on the drive up and down the peninsula or the 5 days in CA as I've seen after spending just a few hours in Ciudad. Didn't realize we'd developed police paranoia until we saw a few cops and had the "ah crap" feeling, then remembered "oh yeah, not Constitución" and could relax.

[Edited on 7-30-2010 by oladulce]

Iflyfish - 7-29-2010 at 10:52 AM

Thanks oladulce for sharing your experience with us. Too bad you had to experience the anxiety but good on you for calmly and learly standing your ground and proposing the trip to the station. This is more evidence that supports our collectively developed approach to this issue.

I hope others will keep posting their experience.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 7-30-2010 at 03:14 PM

bump

Cleared the Gauntlet

Sunman - 7-31-2010 at 09:14 AM

A little update, we passed through Constitution twice over the past two weeks with no issues.

Once heading south from San Juanico via the south bound side street. We even made four stops, two banks, hieleria and deposito...I don't even think we saw a cop, this was on a Wednesday late afternoon.

We then came through again northbound on a Monday or Tuesday (?), stayed in the center lane and made no stops this time, didn't see a cop until the north end of town. We were a screaming tourista billboard with camper, surfboards and fuel cans on the roof. We were fully prepared to play the game but glad we didn't need to. Lucky? I dunno. Anyway, that's my story...maybe things are getting better. Hope everybody else has the same luck.

Iflyfish - 7-31-2010 at 10:00 AM

Sunman

Thank you very much for this post. This is very useful information to all of us who travel thru CC. I am very pleased to hear that you were not stopped AND you were prepared IF you were stopped.

Forewarned is forearmed and you were both because of this thread on Nomads. I hope we take a moment to appreciate what we have done for each other by sharing our experiences and what we have learned about how to deal with police extortion in Ciudad Constitution.

Thanks again. I hope others will continue to share their experiences even if they are BORING!! Boring is good!!

I like that you spent some money in CC. If this continues I plan to do the same and hope others will also do so.

Iflyfish

Osprey - 7-31-2010 at 10:14 AM

Now here's a challenge Flyguy. Find a way to let the CC merchants know we all want to say thank you by spending some dough in their town! Now THAT would be a real cause celeb. Maybe the locals would run the cops completely out of the municipio.

[Edited on 7-31-2010 by Osprey]

gnukid - 7-31-2010 at 11:44 AM

According to the local news CdC Comondu, and all of BCS is having some serious trouble across the government, in particular due to much of the government money is missing/lost/stolen, many BCS incumbents resigned as is typical on the path to the next elections, many employees aren't being paid. CdC isn't paying City offices, the garbage isn't being picked up regularly, water offices have no electricity, there are charges of abuse, torture and rape against the police and the mayor is really under tremendous pressure to resign, the days ahead will be very difficult. The people must be brave and courageous.

http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/?s=comondu

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1726403.htm

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1725044.htm

http://peninsulardigital.com/mas/extra/crece-la-tension-en-e...

http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/de-repente-s...

http://www.zetatijuana.com/html/Edicion1893/Reportajez_Preca...

http://www.tvazteca.com/barradeopinion/win_videos/video-inte...

http://www.icfdn.org/publications/na2006/documents/Community...

[Edited on 7-31-2010 by gnukid]

ElGato - 8-1-2010 at 02:04 PM

Does anyone have knowledge if the C.C. problem is avoidable by detouring to the airport and then back to the highway? :spingrin:

Iflyfish - 8-1-2010 at 10:00 PM

No one has mentioned that route.

Iflyfish

Go for it!

Lee - 8-2-2010 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElGato
Does anyone have knowledge if the C.C. problem is avoidable by detouring to the airport and then back to the highway? :spingrin:

Entirely possible to go around CC at the airport North of town. From what the roads look like, it's probable you'll get lost.

Then it comes down to how much inconvenience a traveler is willing to endure to avoid the police.

Based on principle, I'm willing to take my chances with the police than get lost sneaking around farmland trying to avoid them.

Google Earth clearly shows the route.

Iflyfish - 8-3-2010 at 06:45 PM

bump

monoloco - 8-4-2010 at 05:07 AM

I got an e-mail from someone yesterday who passed through CC a couple of days ago and was extorted for 500 pesos, unfortunately they were in a hurry and just paid it.

Iflyfish - 8-4-2010 at 07:57 AM

Thanks monoloco for this report. It is still happening. I am glad we have an approach that has been demonstrated to work with this Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution.

If you are stopped by a policeman in CC and they try to extort money from you , this approach that has been used successfully to stop this crime.

Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks. Follow the 18 mph speed limit. If stopped do the following:
1. stay calm, take your time
2. ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender your drivers license
3. let cop know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910
4. insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine
5. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
6. remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
7. Drive in the right hand lane and look local, don't make eye contact with a cop.
8. Let every one you know that there is a serious problem with police extortion on the ONLY highway that connects Baja N with Baja S and that each day the city of Ciudad Constitution loses thousands of dollars in lost revenue because of this.

Thanks to those who are posting their experiences with Ciudad Constitution. I hope that Nomads will continue to post their experiences on this thread. This thread has for me settled a long term discussion on Nomads on the best method to use in confronting police extortion.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 8-4-2010 at 08:20 AM

Hey Rick.....how about a card, business size, with a message in Español that says something to the effect:
-------

Thank you for your kind concern. Your suggestion that I pay the fine here would be a big help to me and I appreciate that.
Unfortunately, you and I disagree on the infraction and I will have to discuss the issue with a judge.
If you would be so kind as to lead the way to the station, I'll follow.
If the station is closed, I'll wait. We can wait together.

Thank You.
---------------

Roadside negotiations will be cut to a minimum. Hand the cop this card and go mute. Remember.....drooling helps.

gnukid - 8-4-2010 at 10:15 AM

First off, we must remind ourselves that at this moment CdC is suffering badly, it's a quintessential example of total failure, like many cities there is a failure in the government to manage the budget, there exists massive deficit, there is massive theft of money and now nearly total failure of the systems of government, no garbage nor water service. Regular city services no longer exist. This isn't that unique as many cities across Mexico and USA are in the same or near circumstances so it should come as no surprise, certainly there are many forces that have created and allowed these failures and those go to the highest and lowest levels.

If you find yourself in a circumstance facing an unfair charge by obviously corrupt police, you must be aware that these things can only occur because we allow them and in fact our actions either support these failures entirely or our actions do not support them. Each person is all powerful to allow and participate in corruption whether minor or severe or not. The act of corruption requires two people, the instigator and the participant.

If you have a set of values that considers corruption part of life then you will likely rationalize the payments for false charges to the extortion guys in Cdc or anywhere and you probably do this elsewhere in your life as well. If you have a set of values that doesn't allow for corruption and participation you simply won't participate.

Here are a few things to remember, an extortionist is opportunistic, they exploit emotions in particular fear, however a corrupt cop lives with more fear than any of person of higher morals. Keep this in mind. If you simply do not participate, do not play into fear, do not allow yourself to have fear or play into the relationship, it will go nowhere.

For example, does anyone think that a corrupt cop will continue to harass nice moral people forever? Do you think they would actually harm you? Or actually escalate their games toward the scrutiny of others? They will never do that as of today the entire city if nor the nation and continent of North America knows about corruption in CdC, and they understand in their present consciousness that the have two choices participate in corruption toward the further destruction of society or simply not participate.

All that said, the method you use is your choice, but simply put, calmness, politeness and refusal to participate while being understanding of the plight of those who do participate will bring a quick end to demands of extortion. They bad guys always run quickly from goodness and displays of compassion and forgiveness because that is the opposite of what they create around them.

Iflyfish suggestions are excellent. To add to that any thing you do which is the opposite of participation will bring a quick end to extortion. And remember anyone who does participate is an equal participant who hurts the entire community as well.

A few things I do which work everytime are in general tangental replies to corrupt cops:

Be very polite, patient and understanding of the role of the extortionist - these are sad people
Never ever acknowledge the false accusation-nor demands for money, never ever
Talk about food and recipes and flavors-alot
Talk about the history of Mexico, the history of the city in great detail
Talk about family, introduce yourself ask direct personal questions and listen for the answer
Talk about specific details about the current state of affairs in a kind and understanding manner
Say have a nice a day and tell them they can go now, say goodbye, give them a chance to leave by using pauses, kind gestures associated with saying goodbye etc...

desertcpl - 8-4-2010 at 10:21 AM

got a question

It has been brought up before about making a copy of your drivers licence then laminating it.. are you also required to hand them your pass port or pass card if they ask for it?

karenintx - 8-4-2010 at 11:10 AM

For what it is worth there is an article in the G/G about "Federal Police Rotate Comandantes". I realize that in C/C it is the local police however in the article quotes the new Comandeante Martin Armenta:

"The Federal Police are not allowed to ask for your passport, and although you need to produce your driver license and registration, they may not take them. They can take no papers off you. They can jot down your VIN number and your license plate number, which they call in over a CB radio and give you a ticket, which you pay online. No, you do not go to the police station as they often threaten you must."

Hopefully everything that was in the article is true and Comandeante Armenta is here to help end some of the extortion within the Federal Police that is in our area. You can bet we will keep a copy of this issue in the car with the name of the Comandante highlighted in yellow.

Dennis...great suggestion, I vote for the business card. Here is website that business cards are free...just pay for s/h fee. Ours cost $5.67 USD for 250 cards. Thinking of ordering cards in both Spanish and English...just in case the policeman only wants to communicate in English!

http://www.vistaprint.com

Hopefully someone can find out the "real" procedures for the local police...knowledge is power.

.

DENNIS' SUGGESTION

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-4-2010 at 11:39 AM

Gracias por su preocupación sincera. Su sugerencia que pago la multa aquí sería una ayuda muy grande para mí y yo lo aprecio mucho. Desafortunadamente, usted y yo tenemos diferencia de opinion sobre la infracción y quiero hablar con el juez sobre esto. Si usted sería tan amable para ponerte en camino para la estación de policia, yo te sigo en mi vehiculo para hablar con el juez. Si el juez no se encuentra en este momento, espero aqui contigo hasta que se pone desponible. Muchas Gracias.

Is my translation about right?

[Edited on 8-4-2010 by ELINVESTIG8R]

DENNIS - 8-4-2010 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Gracias por su preocupación sincera. Su sugerencia que pago la multa aquí sería una ayuda muy grande para mí y yo lo aprecio mucho. Desafortunadamente, usted y yo tenemos diferencia de opinion sobre la infracción y quiero hablar con el juez sobre esto. Si usted sería tan amable para ponerte en camino para la estación de policia, yo te sigo en mi vehiculo para hablar con el juez. Si el juez no se encuentra en este momento, espero aqui contigo hasta que se pone desponible. Muchas Gracias.

Is my translation about right?

Looks good to me, David, but I ain't no experto.

Any experts wanna proofread this?

DENNIS - 8-4-2010 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by karenintx

http://www.vistaprint.com

Thanks, Karen.

oladulce - 8-4-2010 at 12:19 PM

My friend related his experience after receiving a real infraction in Constitución- he was sited for not wearing his seat belt. The officer took his driver's license and instructed him to go to the police station. There he met with the transito judge and he paid his fine.

The officer followed up a while later with his driver's license.

I don't know if this is the procedure for all municipal police, or just in Cd C, but it seems to differ from the info that Karen posted about Federale procedures.

Passports or immigration documents aren't requested during a routine traffic stop, at least not in Comondú.

DENNIS - 8-4-2010 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce
The officer took his driver's license and instructed him to go to the police station. There he met with the transito judge and he paid his fine.

The officer followed up a while later with his driver's license.

I don't know if this is the procedure for all municipal police, or just in Cd C, but it seems to differ from the info that Karen posted about Federale procedures.

That's the way they did things years ago in Ensenada. Maybe still do. I don't know. Nothing stays the same for very long around here.

Iflyfish - 8-5-2010 at 08:58 PM

bump

ncampion - 8-6-2010 at 07:24 AM

Well, we safely made it both South and North through Constitution last week on a trip from Loreto to La Paz. Going South, we decided to use the right side lanes and just be very watchful, with the intent of disputing any "bogus" pullover. Of course nothing happened, in fact we didn't even see a single cop truck the whole time. On the return trip we wanted to try the big side road the the East that was mentioned. Found it with no trouble, took it all the way to the North end of town, right past the Police station, turned left and got back to Hwy 1. Now we know where the police station is and what looks like a good alternative to the nerve racking experience of driving through that town. Obviously we didn't stop to spend any money on food, gas or other things - although I would like to feel comfortable doing that in the future.

.

Iflyfish - 8-6-2010 at 08:02 AM

Thanks for the post ncampion, much appreciated. Glad you felt confident about how to deal with police extortion in Ciudad Constitution if need be. Also good to know where the police station is.

I hope others will also post their experience. After many years of discussion as to the best way to deal with police extortion it appears that a successful model has emerged.

If you are stopped by a policeman in CC and they try to extort money from you , this approach that has been used successfully to stop this crime.

Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks. Follow the 18 mph speed limit. If stopped do the following:
1. stay calm, take your time
2. ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender your drivers license
3. let cop know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910
4. insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine
5. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
6. remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
7. Drive in the right hand lane and look local, don't make eye contact with a cop.
8. Let every one you know that there is a serious problem with police extortion on the ONLY highway that connects Baja N with Baja S and that each day the city of Ciudad Constitution loses thousands of dollars in lost revenue because of this.

Iflyfishasaproudnomad

Baja Onion posted by Vags

Lee - 1-15-2011 at 08:00 PM

Repeating info discussed here months ago. Anyone with anything new, please let us know.

_____________________

Police contact in Ciudad Constitucion To Report Extortion (Courtesy Vagabundos publication, Chubasco, Jan/Feb 2011) - Dear Vags:

I would like to give you some very important information you need regarding traffic tickets in Ciudad Constitucion. After a meeting with the Director of the Police in Loreto, I had the opportunity to express the problem with the police in Constitution who are asking tourists for money, especially if they are driving car rentals. He was very supportive and immediately called the Constitution Director of the police.

I made the general claim to him on behalf of my American/ Canadian clients, friends and tourists, because as a Mexican I feel responsible to help with this injustice. He told me if anybody has problems of this kind they should say to the police officers to call: Licenciado Miguel Angel Villalejo, the Director of the police in Constitution, and let them know that you have his private cellular number in case you need to call him anytime for 24 hours. (I'm not publishing his cellular number for obvious reasons but I will be happy to provide it in case it is needed). Or call the 066 number and generate an official report.

He apologizes to the American and Canadian community of Loreto and invites everyone to report this kind of situation. Don't give any money to the police officers, but take the license plate, vehicle number and name of the officer. I hope this helps. Dia Morales, 135-2431. (Forwarded by Lynn Hammon in Loreto). - www.vagabundos.com

BajaNomad - 1-15-2011 at 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
Repeating info discussed here months ago.

And in the past two days another thread on it as well....

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=50308

:biggrin:

[Edited on 1-16-2011 by BajaNomad]

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