BajaNomad - Help Save The Todos Santos Sand Dunes

Help Save The Todos Santos Sand Dunes

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BajaRescue - 6-1-2005 at 07:19 PM

If you've ever been to Todos Santos and experienced the magic of the place, or if you're simply concerned about protecting Baja from greedy developers, the Todos Santos Sand Dunes are now under attack.

A developer wants to build over 55 homes directly on the Todos Santos dunes. These dunes are a fragile ocean/beach environment that will most likely be destroyed if this out-of-town developer is not stopped from executing his plans.

If you can help in any way, please do. We don't have much time to go before SEMARNAP, The Mexican EPA, and put a stop to this. We need volunteers to help with legal fees, circulating petitions, meetings, and getting the word out to others who can help...

If you care at all about what development is doing to destroy the natural wonders of Baja, please visit http://www.bajarescue.com/dunes/ for more info.

OR FOR MORE INFORMATION, CALL SERGIO JUAREQUI AT (011-52) 612 14 50780
OR ELENA MORENO AT (011-52) 612 14 50050.

David K - 6-1-2005 at 07:34 PM

From the tire tracks in your photo, I guess it would also be a loss to recreational off roading?

yankeeirishman - 6-1-2005 at 08:17 PM

There is no persons and/or corporation of this transaction to be, listed here in your post or the Website. Have a name? Sand Dunes are great here in San Felipe too.....which now have chunks of concrete and glass (a.k.a. homes) perching about. Progress...cannot be stopped in most cases. BTW...you own a home down there? I am sure all the developement that currently exist there, is from "greedy developers"

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by yankeeirishman]

RE: Help Save The Todos Santos Sand Dunes

BajaRescue - 6-2-2005 at 06:13 AM

Quote:

From the tire tracks in your photo, I guess it would also be a loss to recreational off roading?

As in other places in Baja, driving on the beach in Todos Santos with any kind of motorized vehicle is illegal but people do it anyway.

Quote:

BTW...you own a home down there? I am sure all the developement that currently exist there, is from "greedy developers"

I rent an older 600 Sqf. house in the barrio near town. I am a plumber and an electrical contractor by trade, and I'm all for development if it respects the environment and the wishes of the local population. Yes, all development is destructive to some extent but there are plenty of good places to build in Todos Santos besides the beach. I used the word "greedy" because this developer knows he can make more money selling beachfront property to rich Americans, and without giving a thought for the local environment. He is trying to buy his way into modifying the laws to allow him to build there. His last name is Ogden, he apparently lives in Cabo, and I don't know if there is a corporation involved. I think not. I'll post more details as I have them.

Hilton Hotel and McDonalds marching in.....

yankeeirishman - 6-2-2005 at 07:36 AM

Thanks for the response.
You are in part, correct. You are commended for giving a damn about the land! Good for you, and all luck for your (one of many) future battle of the landwar.

But...
I own and lease in Mexico. Not all of it is on the Beachfront. My personal home we are building in Campos Octillio is near the water...a few blocks away. I have holdings far off the water's edge. I am a ?Rich American?(I just ain?t poor) that has a buck or two, with a Mexican nationalist neighbor has the beachfront home at our Campos.
San Felipe at one time was sand dunes, wild native brush, and the ocean blues. And your town was too. San Diego too! Trying to fight the advancing humans with their habitats is futile. Zoning laws are changed everyday, everywhere. The desire to expand will always be there in the human mind. All to be, will be!
At best?try to work with the Real Estate developer, to a compromise. You?ll end up with a lot more. Try asking for native landscasping, smaller houses, designed improvements that goes with the land, More land per unit...so forth. Don?t get me wrong?. I hate seeing the destruction of the land. I watched the Irvine Ranch swallow up the green hills of Newport Beach where we used to live in the 50-60s.

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by yankeeirishman]

wilderone - 6-2-2005 at 08:25 AM

"Trying to fight the advancing humans with their habitats is futile."

It's that fatalist, distancing attitude which ALLOWS those things to happen. The silence of mankind, doing nothing, is the most destructive. If you'd get off your collective asses - nationality be damned (after all, they're building for YOU) you could change things.

So many entities are tasked with protecting this environment in Baja, CA - WHERE ARE THEY NOW? They are failing. Why?

BajaRescue - 6-2-2005 at 03:04 PM

While we're working to stop this particular project, we're also drafting a community plan for development in Todos Santos. This will take time, money and lawyers.

Again, I'm not at all against development or rich Americans. I hope to build a home here one day myself and I would love to be rich. But I am against what I see as a blatant disregard of the will of the local population and the environmental laws of Mexico just so someone can build in a Federally-protected area that will negatively impact the local environment for years to come.

Also, this area can and will get hit by hurricanes. As we've seen elsewhere, beachfront projects like this one are an invitation to disaster and loss of life. I know you can only do so much to protect people from themselves, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

You're right, development can't be halted. But it can be channeled and made to conform to community standards. There are master plans in many communities in the US and the same can be done here. I heard it took 20 years to develop one for Cabo, but by that time it was largely too late.

Hopefully, it won't take us that long...

Bruce R Leech - 6-2-2005 at 03:41 PM

Quote:

You're right, development can't be halted. But it can be channeled and made to conform to community standards. There are master plans in many communities in the US and the same can be done here. I heard it took 20 years to develop one for Cabo, but by that time it was largely too late.

Hopefully, it won't take us that long...

the last thing I want is to make Baja Ca. just like the US. the thing that gives Mexican towns and villages there charm is the lack of a master plan. such American inventions should stay north of the border. in Laredo they are building what they call an authentic Mexican village with a master plan.

"All your beach are belong to us"

Don Alley - 6-2-2005 at 05:13 PM

And Fonatur has a master plan, currently being reviewed by Loreto and a team of university professors from the US and Mexico that calls for all of the area's beaches (sand, gravel and rocky) to be designated for development. A 35 mile stretch. Where cliffs drop straight to the sea will be "conservation zones."

No public beaches, no parks, from Ensenada Blanca to El Bajo north of Loreto. ALL for developers. "The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay" is only a small step.

Fonatur...the Evil Empire!

And they're coming to Mulage and Bahia Concepcion, rumor says! Bwahahaha!

Bruce R Leech - 6-2-2005 at 05:57 PM

the next few years are going to be very interesting. those of us. that were smart enough to Tye up some water a few years ago are going to be the ones to come out on top I hope.If we can manage to hold on to it against the big boys. the water is worth much more than the Land. the city wells in Mulege are already starting to get salty. in cabo they rented the sewer water to the golf courses for 1,000,000 dollars. :?:

When the gringos come

jrbaja - 6-2-2005 at 06:08 PM

it turns into another gringolandia, no matter how you look at it or what pretentious gibberish goes along with it. Most people I know don't even go to Todos Santos anymore because it is so unMexico like. Too many "neuter and spade brigades" so to speak!

Capt. George - 6-2-2005 at 10:34 PM

Again, I see and deal with the multitudes of "I got miners"....what crap! There are a lot of people out there on their way to Baja, ya ain't gonna stop it or slow it up. Unfortuneately money talks etc.

Over the next 5 to 8 years you will see staggering developement in Baja whether u like it or not....the baby boomers aka "me generation" are coming, with lots and lots of dinero....need safe haven...little petty crime, no real violent crime... a place of beauty and peace, can you blame them?

Do I want this? No, but here I am none the less, a little late...who am I to deny others...tooooo many people...how about a nuclear war, that'll give us more room...Get real and get over it, go about your business and enjoy it as long as you can.....

Not everywhere is for everyone, go where you really like, maybe no one else will come, YEAH RIGHT!!!!!

Capt. George............ I feel fortunate for all the things I'VE had before the explosion of pseudo adventurers.......

BajaRescue - 6-3-2005 at 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
It's that fatalist, distancing attitude which ALLOWS those things to happen.

I agree. It's just a dodge to justify inaction.

Quote:

Most people I know don't even go to Todos Santos anymore because it is so unMexico like. Too many "neuter and spade brigades" so to speak!

Aren't "Neuter and Spay Brigades" just code words for "Elitist Gringos?". Your response makes it sound like it's just the Todos Santos Gringos backing this effort. The truth is that many Mexican nationals are leading the effort to stop this and many more have signed the petitions.

BTW, they are also involved in spay and neuter here, FWIW.

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 08:30 AM

so BajaRescue why do you want to add to the problem by becoming a resident there? would it be the politically correct thang to do to abstain? it seems kind of hypocritical what you are saying.

David K - 6-3-2005 at 08:35 AM

Kind of like: "now that I have moved to Baja, the rest of you stay away", huh Bruce? :lol:

wilderone - 6-3-2005 at 08:38 AM

"... a place of beauty and peace." Which will be destroyed with every development project. Little by little the peace and beauty erodes until all you have is private property, fences, petty crime, and an un-Mexican homogenous norteamericano commercialized cesspool. When you take an objective look at all of the development plans - Escalera Nautica, development of Loreto, Juncalito, Conception Bay, Todos Santos, the other mega-development on the Cape, you will see that there will be very few places left for the majority of Baja travelers. Who is profiting, really? The true worth and value of Baja, CA is the unspoiled peace and beauty, which is becoming a finite resource. It will be lost unless we, an opposing voice, become a force which will turn the tide.
And here's something else to lament (I got this yesterday):

Dear BioGems Defender,

We need your immediate help to save the most important whale habitat on the planet. Five years ago, our very first BioGems campaign won a stunning victory over the Mitsubishi Corporation and its plan to build a colossal salt factory on the banks of the world's last undisturbed gray whale birthing ground -- at San Ignacio Lagoon in Baja, Mexico.

Thanks to our efforts, when hundreds of pregnant gray whales arrive at the lagoon each winter they still find what generations of whales before them have always found: warm, tranquil waters for giving birth . . . complete sanctuary from killer orcas . . . and placid surf where one-ton newborns can hone their swimming skills for the arduous journey back to Alaska.

But San Ignacio Lagoon has never received permanent protection. And, today, there are ominous signs that this irreplaceable whale nursery may soon be threatened by plans for industrialization . . . oil and gas drilling . . .
massive high-rise hotels . . . and resort marinas with ocean-bound ships.
That's why NRDC and our Mexican partners are now racing to safeguard the whales' lagoon in the only way possible: by buying up the development rights to the surrounding one million acres and putting them off-limits to industry forever.

Securing a stretch of coastline this big could easily cost tens of billions of
dollars in the United States. But we estimate the total cost of permanently
protecting Mexico's San Ignacio Lagoon to be about $9.9 million. That's an
average cost of only $10 per acre!

At that price, saving the gray whale nursery is not just feasible, it's a dream that BioGems Defenders like you can turn into a beautiful reality. And that is how it should be. After all, it took one million citizens to bring Mitsubishi to its knees back in 2000. So it's only right that every BioGems Defender should have a stake in saving the gray whale nursery forever.

We need to purchase the development rights for the first 140,000 acres of land within the next month. To meet that deadline, we're counting on your immediate support. Please look into your own heart and decide what it's worth that Pacific gray whales will always have one perfect lagoon, where their newborns can enter the world as Mother Nature intended -- wild and free. Then please go to ttps://www.savebiogems.org/baja/donate_d.asp
and protect just as many acres of this irreplaceable whale habitat as you
possibly can by making your most generous donation.

If you want to do even more, then please forward this message to anyone you know who might want to help save our planet's last undisturbed gray whale nursery. Thank you.

Sincerely,

John H. Adams
President
Natural Resources Defense Council

David K - 6-3-2005 at 08:45 AM

Let's take it one step further and say no pavement allowed between El Rosario or Puertecitos south to Guerrero Negro! Keep Baja Pure!!!

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 08:45 AM

Here we go again :yawn:

jerry - 6-3-2005 at 08:53 AM

it seems the same in baja as in the states i got mine screw you, once they have there piece of heaven the "stop the development" bell clangs loud
before i got my little peace of heaven in loreto and from the start of the loreto bay project and i continue to think that development will happen and i think its a lot better to have it with some type of originization rather then piecemeal with no restrants look what happened in cabo? imagin 6000 homes in the loreto area with no planning??i feel i have no place telling another country what it can do i only have influence by my example and trying to let the my native friends know how there actions and there governments actions will directly effect them in the future

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 09:21 AM

Look at the real authentic Mexican Townes Like the origanal Cabo san Luces or even Todos Santos 15 years ago they have lots of of homes and only limited Mexican planing. and they are quite nice outside of the Gringo gated community's. Todos Santos was one of the Jules of Baja Ca. before all of the US and Canadian people started planing it. now it is a retirement community for geriatric Hippies.

oh boy I'm going to catch heck for that one. Have at.

Excuse me... do you live here?

yankeeirishman - 6-3-2005 at 09:35 AM

BajaRescue...and other posters here
Your last posting has insult to it. No thanks here?coming from me, to you!

Is this true (?):
Your masterful use the English vocabulary in your postings ?you are non Native of Baja? Mmmmm?
Your dependency on a paycheck comes from the town?s people? ?Who ever they may be? (Mexican, Canadian, States, and so on), don?t you work on their homes and/or businesses that have raped land beneath? You do live in a house, apartment, or a room to let, that was once upon a time?. virgin land that some Native used to hunt on? The transportation you use dripping it?s oil all over the pavements?only to be washed away to the Sea during the rains. Oh?that un ? recycled garbage I saw out in the deserts?. was that part yours too? Yes.
I can go on with a 1000 pages of negative issues here that you (the human) causes in you little town. The masses will come. You are there before the masses having done the damages you so ill speak of! It?s NOT only the sand dunes, Dude!
If you read some of my postings from the archives you will see that I have issues about the way some of the ?Newfoundland? is being exploited. Leaching septic systems that drip human waste into the sub terrain Aqua system, over fishing, dumping trash in the desert and much more.
Back to what I was saying?.co operation with planning the town itself, infrastructure of the land, the politicians, and laws will bear fruit far more than a protest. Look at the big picture. I do?in San Felipe!

[Edited on 6-3-2005 by yankeeirishman]

Yankee, David & Jerry

BajaRob - 6-3-2005 at 09:40 AM

Right on!!!!!!!! I have seen many areas where people moved into and then wanted to shut the door behind them. I have always had a problem with those that desire to control property not owned by them. The shurefire remedy is for those people to put their money where their mouths are and buy the property. Too simple??????????Rob

[Edited on 6-3-2005 by BajaRob]

Acuity - 6-3-2005 at 10:44 AM

The discussion seems to be confusing increased development in the Baja (which most would agree is going to happen) with the specific issue here - developing on the sand dunes that are part of the beach (and the very reason that the area is so inviting).

TS has and will continue to grow, and while we might not like all the changes that it brings, its inevitable. But there is plenty of space to grow without ruining the environment.

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeeirishman
BajaRescue...and other posters here
You last posting has insult to it. No thanks here?coming from me, to you!

Is this true (?):
You masterful use the English vocabulary in your postings ?you are non Native of Baja? Mmmmm?
You dependency on a paycheck comes from the town?s people? ?Who ever they may be? (Mexican, Canadian, States, and so on), don?t you work on their homes and/or businesses that have raped land beneath? You do live in a house, apartment, or a room to let, that was once upon a time?. virgin land that some Native used to hunt on? The transportation you use dripping it?s oil all over the pavements?only to be washed away to the Sea during the rains. Oh?that un ? recycled garbage I saw out in the deserts?. was that part yours too? Yes.
I can go on with a 1000 pages of negative issues here that you (the human) causes in you little town. The masses will come. You are there before the masses having done the damages you so ill speak of! It?s NOT only the sand dunes, Dude!
If you read some of my postings from the archives you will see that I have issues about the way some of the ?Newfoundland? is being exploited. Leaching septic systems that drip human waste into the sub terrain Aqua system, over fishing, dumping trash in the desert and much more.
Back to what I was saying?.co operation with planning the town itself, infrastructure of the land, the politicians, and laws will bear fruit far more than a protest. Look at the big picture. I am?in San Felipe!

[Edited on 6-3-2005 by yankeeirishman]

words well spoken yankeeirishman :light:

BajaRescue - 6-3-2005 at 11:35 AM

Insult? Sorry, none intended. I thought I was pointing out it's not just rich Gringos in Todos Santos against this particular development.

Yes, YankeeIrishman, I'm clearly a non-native as apparently most of the people on this board. And yes, you're absolutely right, my dependency comes from the town's people. I can't do anything about what has gone on before but I can try to do something about what will happen. This is my town and I care about what happens here. Hopefully, we all put something back for what we take. That's what good communities are all about.

And, yes, you're also right, simple protests won't do it. Unless the current Mexican laws are affirmed and reinforced, this will continue to happen.

I agree, seems like this thread got stuck on a "close the door" theme. Let me stress it one more time, I AM NOT against anyone moving to Baja, living in Baja, playing in Baja, buying land in Baja, or building houses on it, as long as they respect the laws. I am against anyone building anywhere and any way they want to, even if the local community doesn't want it (Gringos AND Mexicans).

[Edited on 6-3-2005 by BajaRescue]

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 11:39 AM

BajaRescue you say If you can help in any way, please do. We don't have much time to go before SEMARNAP, The Mexican EPA, and put a stop to this. We need volunteers to help with legal fees, circulating petitions, meetings, and getting the word out to others who can help...

do you want us to send you money or what??????

How long have you been a professional Protester in Mexico?

Are you Registered with the Mexican Hacienda so you can legally do this.

[Edited on 6-3-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

here's a way. (it was used against me one time!)

yankeeirishman - 6-3-2005 at 11:58 AM

Okay okay....
Put on your Superman shirt and do this if you REALLY want to do a slam correctly to the developers down there...

How to Start a Community Action Group
Community Action Groups give people the opportunity to get together to share the thoughts of the common theme, planning the action, execution of such plans. In your case?growth control would apply. It?s not going to be a cake walk for you?but here?s a plan of action you may want to take to save your Sand Dunes (and other land values) down there.
Basic Steps for Starting a Community Action Group
1. Create a small poster/flyer
Poster/flyer should briefly describe a community Action Group for Planning and encourage interested participants. Neighborhood houses, community centers and local gathering places are good spots to display your poster. Some people even advertise in local community papers to attract members. Don't forget to include your name and contact number! Word of mouth is also an effective form of advertising. Tell all your friends and acquaintances about your interest in forming a community group. Before long you'll have enough soldiers to get started! Be sure to invite the local Baja politician! The business owner also!
2. Call a First Meeting
Once you have four or five interested people, call your first meeting. Don?t wait till you get 50 people showing interest?most wont show up! Host it in your home or meet at a public place in the community. Most community centers or neighborhood houses will accommodate these types of meetings at no cost. You may want to present the community facility with general information such as the single page - What is a community action group for (?). This will help them understand what your group is trying to achieve and who knows, they may even be interested in playing a supportive role even after the initial meeting.
3.
Now?you fight with a bite! And remenber to take compromises!

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 01:40 PM

don't forget that people mysteriously vanish in Mexico for this type of thing.

don't forget

Sharksbaja - 6-3-2005 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
don't forget that people mysteriously vanish in Mexico for this type of thing.

Now that has some bite! It is odd how water doesn't flow the same direction in Mexico as it does in the U.S.

chit does!

jrbaja - 6-3-2005 at 03:27 PM

and Rescue, how long have you lived in Todos Santos? Or Mexico for that matter?

yankeeirishman - 6-3-2005 at 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
don't forget that people mysteriously vanish in Mexico for this type of thing.

Yeah...in San Franciso too :lol:

We had an Club proposal on the CCSF back in 1998 and when the neighbors caught wind of it...we were hit with every damn department of the county/city with delays/demands. Compromised and buckos later...we suceeded with a smaller version of the club. The day before our Grand opening, "NO Parking" signs were placed on Otis Street (our club location)! So yes...I wish that too, people mysteriously vanish whom did these protests!

Bruce R Leech - 6-3-2005 at 04:13 PM

BajaRescue are you from Berkly Ca?

how long have you lived in Todos Santos?

did you see how beautiful Todos Santos was before the gringos started telling the Mexicans what to do?

oh by the way Welcome to the Baja Nomad forum.

[Edited on 6-3-2005 by Bruce R Leech]

Dave - 6-3-2005 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
did you see how beautiful Todos Santos was before the gringos started telling the Mexicans what to do?

And that works? :lol:

BajaRescue - 6-3-2005 at 07:51 PM

Hi Bruce,

You asked some questions about me. Sorry, I didn't think this issue was about me but I'll answer if it helps:

Q - How long have you been a professional Protester in Mexico?
A - Well, I didn't think of myself as a professional or a protester but I guess about 2 days ago I brought up this issue, so 2 days?

Q - Are you Registered with the Mexican Hacienda so you can legally do this.
A - No, didn't know I needed to register with anyone other than this Forum to express an opinion

Did I break a Mexican law? Sorry, I already told you how much I hate that in others. Where do I sign up?

Q - BajaRescue are you from Berkly Ca?
A - No, I grew up in Placerville. It's 100 miles East of Berkeley and 1,500 miles north of Todos Santos. Feels pretty far away now...
Are people from Berkeley banned from this Forum?

Q - how long have you lived in Todos Santos?
A - My 1st year, but feels like two. How long do I need to be here to earn an opinion?

Q - did you see how beautiful Todos Santos was before the gringos started telling the Mexicans what to do?
A - No, I thought it was the other way around? It's their country or am I wrong about this, too?

- oh by the way Welcome to the Baja Nomad forum.
A - Hey,thanks! And thanks for the haircut

And yankeeirishman, thank you for the tips. All good advice...

[Edited on 6-7-2005 by BajaRescue]

bajaden - 6-3-2005 at 07:53 PM

Im not sure where to start. First, most people I know that are involved in spay and neuter are decent caring people, not elitist snobs. Having said that I agree that Todo Santos is not what it used to be, nor is Cabo and Im sure that some time in the future Loreto will fall into that catagory. I don't want this to happen, but all one can hope for is that it later than sooner. I don't think its people like me or most of you that destroy places like baja. We all love it for what it is and want it to stay exactly the way it is. Its the people who see for what it could become that will destroy it. Strangely enough some of these people love the place for the same reasons I do. They think they will help the economy, create jobs, give people a better life. At least that what they convince themselves of. There is no answer except to enjoy it while you can and fight to preserve as much as you can. By the way, theres something I have to get off my chest. I don't see Mexicans and Gringos, I just see people. We can all work together or fail apart. I detest all racists. I have no use for marooons who want to blame their failure in life on the color of someone else's skin.

Bajaboy - 6-3-2005 at 08:09 PM

I'm sure a few people might argue that Baja was ruined when the highway was paved past El Rosario. Seems pretty reasonable to me that the sand dunes remain free from development.

As the world's population grows, so will Baja's...better get used to it.

Zac

Don Alley - 6-3-2005 at 08:29 PM

After spending 30 years in what was to become the fashionable Flathead Valley in Montana, all these arguments are familiar.

Todos Santos...seems pretty prosperous for a small Mexican town, at least seems like there is more wealth than Loreto, Mulage, San Ignacio...so who is it you want to help in your cause? Don't look here, we have our own issues. Do it, or don't do it, yourself. Frankly, I suspect there are more worthy candidates for salvation in BCS.

Loreto area...so Mexico has a federal zone for public beach use, and constitutional protection from foreigners buying up the coastal property, yet their own government creature, Fonatur, is promoting a plan to make all beach property save the small Loreto city beach exclusive foreign property. With something reminiscent of apartheid, with the resulting Mexican workforce (from the mainland) concentrated in an urban area away from the tourists. This seems like pretty poor planning and could create some ill will...we'll see. But there is a difference between the "I got mine now go away" mentality and a position that perhaps some portions of high value property remain in the public domain or commons, such as federal, state or munincipal parks?

The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay...Hey, as long as they confine such nonsense to Nopolo, let them do their thing. But some have suggested here that this outfit has a "plan." Baloney. Real plans must realistically address things like water sources, sewage disposal, and worker housing. They are bouncing around on all those issues, and haven't figured any of them out. No, what they have is not a plan, it's a sales pitch. Maybe a pretty good one, too.

Well, I've done this stuff before and don't think I want to do any more. But if I did, rather than try and stop a specific development, especially one where significant money has already been invested, I would try to get in front of development, identify a place worth preserving before development money is invested, and get a park established, or a preserve, or buy development rights, while at the same time being mindful of, perhaps even supportive of, efforts by others in the community to improve their own standard of living.

Now, I wonder...will there be sustainable bamboo at The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay?

BajaRescue - 6-3-2005 at 08:36 PM

Quote:

Posted by BajaBoy
Seems pretty reasonable to me that the sand dunes remain free from development.

Thanks, that's all I was trying to say (wish I had).

If all goes well

jrbaja - 6-4-2005 at 09:33 AM

there will be sustainable bamboo growing in most all areas of Baja where employment is needed. It has already started and ranch land has been cleared in a number of areas. We are now working on getting different species from the mainland planted.
What this means is that by growing bamboo, it creates jobs, they don't have to sell their land to yet more foreigners, and they can continue raising good honest children who's main priority isn't money.
You know, kinda like most cultures.

And thanks for the mention Don.

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by jrbaja]

We took care of him

Arthur - 6-4-2005 at 09:41 AM

Well, we sure showed him, didn't we? I'll bet he and his misguided Mexican friends will think twice about bringing their crazy ideas to this board next time. Can you believe they thought they could change things, or make developers obey Mexican law? Don't they know it's too late to do anything like that around here? And they didn't even ask us before they got started. Pathetic.

I sincerely doubt

jrbaja - 6-4-2005 at 09:49 AM

that he has any Mexican friends, misguided or not. But, he is following the path of all newbie gringo dogooders and trying to help a gringo community in a very gringo way.

I'm pretty sure that these "save the something" projects that the gringos seem to need does not involve any of the local folks, if there are still any that can even afford to live there now.

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by jrbaja]

Bajaboy - 6-4-2005 at 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
that he has any Mexican friends, misguided or not. But, he is following the path of all newbie gringo dogooders and trying to help a gringo community in a very gringo way.

I'm pretty sure that these "save the something" projects that the gringos seem to need does not involve any of the local folks, if there are still any that can even afford to live there now.

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by jrbaja]

What does any of this have to do with protecting a piece of the environment? I think everyone is reading way too much into this post. From what I gathered, someone posted about potential development on the dunes near TS. The poster does not agree with this location of development. What is the frickin' big deal?

Quit smoking the bamboo JR...

By the way, I do have many friends in the area...both Gringo and locals.

Zac

BajaRescue - 6-4-2005 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

newbie gringo dogooders trying to help a gringo community in a very gringo way.

So I guess the issue really is all about me after all? Then my bad

[Edited on 6-5-2005 by BajaRescue]

The Gull - 6-4-2005 at 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRescue

Quote:

newbie gringo dogooders trying to help a gringo community in a very gringo way.

So I guess the issue really is all about me after all? Then my bad

[Edited on 6-5-2005 by BajaRescue]

Save the TS sand dunes!!!! All Nomads need to take a sackful home when leaving Baja.

[Edited on 6-5-2005 by The Gull]

BajaRescue - 6-4-2005 at 10:18 PM

Sandbaggers!

Marie-Rose - 6-5-2005 at 08:58 AM

Welcome to Baja Nomad, Baja Rescue!![/b

Now you know why there are so many of us who do not even try to post our thoughts!!
I truly understand what you are saying and value your contribution to the community of Todos Santos. We have been kept informed about what is happening will also try to do what we can to support, not only the wishes of the gingo's living in Todos Santos, but also those of our Mexican neighbors.

Please don't stop posting...there are hundreds of Nomads who are reading, and want to be informed.

pokey - 6-5-2005 at 09:36 AM

Unfortunately..... In this day and age, anyone who expresses concerns about depelopment taking place in ecologically sensitive areas. Or depelopment in hurricane zones. Or where water for the future communities is going to come from. Is immediately dismissed as a card carrying liberal, commie, feminist wacko.

Then...When the chit hits the fan and the wells go salty, the hurricanes blow down the houses, the beaches errode away, the houses fall down the sides of cliffs, the beaches become contaminated. They run to the govt and ask for money to pay for the their lack of foresight..... Then ask for a tax cut.

Silence of the dead

yankeeirishman - 6-5-2005 at 09:56 AM

Marie-Rose....
"Now you know why there are so many of us who do not even try to post our thoughts!!?

What? Hun?!

This is the real world. Not some TV. Drama where all agrees or disagrees with one's thoughts. The reality of Baja Rescue's post is this: 851 lookies from the members / he learned about group action charters / the posted website he was offering got hit many more times from the public / he even got new support! Not even to say anything about ?nurture the bow wows? Website and group he belongs to?got publicized immensely.
For you (Marie-Rose) that complain of "many of us who do not even try to post our thoughts" is indeed doing the social crime. You'll never get anything done by being the quiet majority! Get off you Easy Chair and become a voice! Whether it?s negative or positive?a voice is far better than silence! Voice allows debate, decisions with both sides of a story, advancements of a viewpoint! If you get your panties wet because someone goes against you and that disables you?.well?go back to your Easy Chair and have silent representation.
Had Baja Rescue never posted on this forum?. most of us would have never heard about the problems in his hometown! SO WHAT if a a few of us knocked him around! It helped! I don?t have a clue what your problems are in YOUR hometown from your silence! No need to rescue this guy?s post?rescue yourself from silence!
Perhaps it is timidity that prevents many a person from standing squarely on their own philosophy and uttering nothing less than the highest truth they perceive. One has fears at the loss of friends or position. Actually, the danger lies in the other direction, in settling for less than one's best judgment.

BajaRescue - 6-5-2005 at 10:12 AM

Hey Marie-Rose, thanks for the vote.

But, really, greetz to all the Nomads for posting a view, pro or con.

yankeeirishman is spot on about debate, the exposure this thread got and the advice I got, and that wasn't lost on me.

Whether you're for or against development on the dunes in Mexico or anywhere else for that matter, whether you've lived here for years or not, this group had a chance to pick and choose from all sides and post their own point if they wanted. That's the way it is and I wouldn't want it any different.

I'll admit this is one tough bunch on this board, but every "newbie" gets a frat hazing until they get catch the way the wind blows. Hey, I run a board, too, so I know all about that. Just didn't want the dissing to blow the thread totally off topic...

BajaRescue - 6-5-2005 at 10:31 AM

And JrBaja, I need to answer your question about my friends, although this is again mostly off topic.

Alhough, I also think it's silly/wrong to make the distinction between the two groups, we have made many Mexican friends and many Gringo friends in the short time we've lived here. Most of the people we have met in TS, especially Mexicans, are some of the nicest, friendliest people we've ever known, here or anywhere else.

Our Mexican partners are local builders and they care about what happens with the dunes. People leading the charge to stop this particular project are Mexicans. Call Sergio (another Mexican) and talk to him. In case you missed it, his phone number is in my first post. He can give you a long list of all the TS Mexicans involved in this effort. Their efforts will ultimately carry a lot more weight than any bunch of Gringos here for sure. But we all do what we can for our community.

[Edited on 6-5-2005 by BajaRescue]

Marie-Rose - 6-5-2005 at 10:32 AM

Right on Yankeeirishman. I do need to keep that in mind...and will. Obviously Baja Rescue does not need me to "Rescue" him!! :tumble:

The way I see it

jrbaja - 6-5-2005 at 11:33 AM

is that if some don't have the backbone to stand up for what they believe in, vamanos panochas! Go back to your desperate housewife life. And that is not intended as an insult to women as there are probably more men on this board who make up the chicken coup groupers!

And Rescue, sounds like you are doing what you believe in with the help of people that matter, (Mexicans). And you didn't weasle out of the conversation like the coup groupers tend to do. Good on ya Amigo!

NEWS FLASH! "BajaRescue becomes Irish"!

yankeeirishman - 6-5-2005 at 11:35 AM

Yes...that's thy ol' rumble tumble rolly polly talk, Mr BajaRescue ! You last post has bite. Jrbaja is a great guy with good meaning, if you can read what he is REALLY sayin' about Baja. He makes sense to me...in every post. The Arf Arf's dont like him though :lol:

Marie-Rose
Are you Irish now too? GooD! Now type away me' Lady!

[Edited on 6-5-2005 by yankeeirishman]

BajaRescue - 6-5-2005 at 11:52 AM

You mean I get a stripe, or a badge, a shirt or something? cool!

The yard boss

yankeeirishman - 6-5-2005 at 12:07 PM

BajaRescue - 6-5-2005 at 12:31 PM

Hey, how many posts to earn a BajaNomad Forum Decoder Ring? I want to know what Members are really saying...

if you knew exactly what

eetdrt88 - 6-5-2005 at 12:43 PM

everyone met on an internet chat board such as this one,i have a feeling this whole business might start getting a little boring...its kinda like a song you hear and sing along to,does it really matter if youre singing the exact same lyrics as the "real" singer ?

bajaden - 6-5-2005 at 12:58 PM

I was a member of another board in Sacramento for a couple of years. We all finally decided to have a big get together. We met and decided we really had nothing in common other than the ignorance we spewwed out in our posts. Just wasn't the same after that.

now that is some funny ****

eetdrt88 - 6-5-2005 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaden
I was a member of another board in Sacramento for a couple of years. We all finally decided to have a big get together. We met and decided we really had nothing in common other than the ignorance we spewwed out in our posts. Just wasn't the same after that.

the anonymity of this process is what makes it kind of fun...at least for me

Sir....I am looking for a brain, have one handy?

yankeeirishman - 6-5-2005 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

"We all finally decided "...
Well?.ahm?hun ? ?all decided"? How many showed up at this lonely-hearts club meeting...2? Dude...oh Dude! You think the readers here think you are speaking the truth of this statement of yours? Everyone didn?t like the other? What are the odds of that happening? I been to the worst parties of hell?and always found SOMEONE I liked! You must have just posted this garbage statement to get attention. For a 63 years old , ya acting like a Drama Queen!
In case Mommy never showed you how to end a heated forum (conversation) ...you leave with jokes and well wishes with all, so that there is a positive trail to stay on next time one decides to venture out. "Hello"! That's exactly what was going on here till you stuck your Igor brain into the last few postings. You must be very confused with all this higher intelligent forums we posters display here, try www.grammerschoollevelforum.com

BajaRescue 1054 views now :lol:

[Edited on 6-5-2005 by yankeeirishman]

BajaRescue - 6-5-2005 at 03:12 PM

Hey yankeeirishman,

That SailorDog was funny! You're a graphics artist? Better be careful or that Creative Genius stuff'll attract a pile on and ruin your rep around here...

We're Too Late

BajaRescue - 6-5-2005 at 09:13 PM

Sorry Everyone,

While we were all sitting around our PCs yammering about the number and nationality of my friends, the developer in question took advantage of the distraction, snuck in and started his development last night. I'm sorry to say that it may be too late to stop him now. To all the nay sayers on this Forum, a tip of the hat. You were right, pessimism is best ism of all. At least, you're never disappointed...

Here is a photo of a section of the Todos Santos dunes taken just yesterday:

Pretty nice, huh?

The following picture is how the same section of the dunes looked today. This is not pretty, and I warn you if you care deeply about the unspoiled beauty of Baja remaining that way, you may not want to scroll down any farther to see what happened...
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still here?
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I warned you, still time to turn back...
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OK, you asked for it...
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Dave - 6-5-2005 at 09:23 PM

Taco Bell?

Now I know what happened to the dog.

Marie-Rose - 6-5-2005 at 09:52 PM

Oh my Gawd!!!!! .... that is TOO funny!!! I was honestly afraid to scroll down!
:lol:

The new look of TS

The Gull - 6-5-2005 at 10:08 PM

That new picture looks great. Lots of employment, less reliance on the artsyfartsy gringo tribes in TS today and far enough away from Cabo to succeed. Great idea.

When are the Federal Zone permits going to be granted? I can hardly wait.

I'm onto yer tricks Rescue

jrbaja - 6-6-2005 at 09:17 AM

that's not Todos Santos at all, that's Loreto Bay! The quant Mexican style community!

Bruce R Leech - 6-6-2005 at 10:12 AM

Finley a Toco Bell no we can get some authentic Mexican food to eat at our authentic Mexican village :lol:

Cincodemayo - 6-6-2005 at 11:46 AM

JR...What's a quant? I plan to grow Budda's Belly Bamboo on my Loreto Bay Lot...I want it sustainable. I can just hang at the pool in front of our villa and watch my investment grow while dousing down Pacificos.

PJC - 6-9-2005 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRescue
I agree, seems like this thread got stuck on a "close the door" theme. Let me stress it one more time, I AM NOT against anyone moving to Baja, living in Baja, playing in Baja, buying land in Baja, or building houses on it, as long as they respect the laws. I am against anyone building anywhere and any way they want to, even if the local community doesn't want it (Gringos AND Mexicans).

Now, exactly what law states that a businessman cannot build on his land even if it is a sand dune?

Perhaps you can band together a fund to buy him out and protect said land?

I doubt, that you will. You'd rather just strip him of his land rights without compensation. This BS is exactly why the present eco-a$s-clown movement is doomed and sinking fast.

Now get back to you gated community where you belong.

PJC - 6-9-2005 at 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
And Rescue, sounds like you are doing what you believe in with the help of people that matter, (Mexicans). And you didn't weasle out of the conversation like the coup groupers tend to do. Good on ya Amigo!

JR, the only difference between the developer in question and you is "money". If you had the wherewithall to dev that land, you would too.

PJC - 6-9-2005 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
That new picture looks great. Lots of employment, less reliance on the artsyfartsy gringo tribes in TS today and far enough away from Cabo to succeed. Great idea.

When are the Federal Zone permits going to be granted? I can hardly wait.

Right on!

The next Baja 2000 must have a loop through this area.

Only the Tecate Truck and Tent Booths are missing.

BajaRescue - 6-9-2005 at 06:01 PM

Fortunately, the decision will be made by the Mexicans, and not by the Gringos, the Caliornians, or even the Nevadans...

Dave - 6-9-2005 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRescue
Fortunately, the decision will be made by the Mexicans, and not by the Gringos, the Caliornians, or even the Nevadans...

The decision will be made by some Mexicans. Probably those who will financially benefit from the decision.

BajaRescue - 6-9-2005 at 06:33 PM

No doubt.

this thread reminds me....

eetdrt88 - 6-9-2005 at 06:42 PM

that certain people on this board are probably forgetting to take their meds....remember people, one with breakfast...one with lunch.... and one right before bedtime and suddenly all those things that worried you so much will seem so trivial

BajaRescue - 6-9-2005 at 07:02 PM

yup

PJC - 6-9-2005 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
The decision will be made by some Mexicans. Probably those who will financially benefit from the decision.

The land owners will benefit the most. It is their business case and I have yet to see any data that substantiates their activities as illegal.

Wrong again Blackie

jrbaja - 6-10-2005 at 12:17 PM

We spent 2 years looking for places that didn't have realtors, developers or gringos just because we don't want to do that kind of thing.
It's nice that you have money but, when it comes to money meaning more to some folks than anything, well, the happiest people I know have less than me, and I don't have any! :lol:

MexicoTed - 6-13-2005 at 09:08 PM

I wanted to let all of you know tomorrow's radio show will have a representative calling in from the proposal to save the dunes in Todos Santos. They will discuss what's happening from their side (I tried to get a rep. from Sr. Ogden, but didn't get a return correspondence). They will be on in the first 20 minutes only.

Listen at http://www.worldtalkradio.com/show.asp?sid=126

Ted
Baja Talk Radio

PJC - 6-15-2005 at 03:05 PM

Nonesense!

Count #1) You have zero right to tell a land owner what to do with his/her land if they are acting in a lawful manner.

Count #2) Money is a bi-product of success. Success generally comes with hard work. Hard work is supported by peers, friends and family. If you can't understand this social climate then the problem is yours and not mine.

Count #3) Your continued position that only the poor are happy is nothing more than self serving jibberish fueld likely by your own frustration and lack of success.

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
We spent 2 years looking for places that didn't have realtors, developers or gringos just because we don't want to do that kind of thing.

It's nice that you have money but, when it comes to money meaning more to some folks than anything, well, the happiest people I know have less than me, and I don't have any! :lol:

Me No - 6-15-2005 at 04:08 PM

Since Rescue bashed Vegas, I feel within my rights to step in to this rather long thread.

1) I wish Vegas was beach front, but I guess we just have to settle for lake Mead. That is until California drops into the ocean. :lol:

2) JR is pulling everyones leg, the guy is rich, he owns half of southern Baja. That whole Bamboo thing is a rooze. None the less, it is his passion and his mission. His love of the people of baja and the simple life is what confuses people. To know JR is to love him, but you need to be patient enough to take a good long look.

3) Baja Blackie is rich too, he has the most unbelievable family I think I have ever met. Monied or not, in my book, his wealth is the amount of love he is surrounded by.

4) I consider both of you my friends, good people are good people. If ever there is a time when things were not so good for you two. You both can count on me, and I only charge 150 per hour. :lol:

Bajarescue, that sand dune looks remarkably like a thousand other beaches that have been developed all over baja. If you want to see a real sand dune, go to Glamis. What makes that one so special? Oh, it's in your backyard. Weeell, tough petunias. The place looks better in the second picture, if you ask me. You need to ask yourself why they built TS where they did in the first place. Because the beach front is often cold, overcast, and windy. It is much nicer up in the valley there. Then there is the issue of water. Someone in town will need to sell it to them. You need to ask a few Mexicans what they think about more jobs. Me thinks you must be and Eco Kook! :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 6-15-2005 at 04:28 PM

sounds like everyone has some good ideas. and Baja rescue certainly has his hart in the right place and I respect his trying to save Baja Ca. as most of us have tried to do in the past. But I think he will learn with time that there is not much use in protesting in Mexico. what will happen will happen.

BajaRescue - 6-15-2005 at 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Me No
Since Rescue bashed Vegas, I feel within my rights to step in to this rather long thread.

Huh? You mean it wasn't within your rights before? I bashed Vegas? Really, I think every country should have a Vegas (but only one per country, please). In Mexico, maybe it's Cancun or Cabo, but with the casino coming, maybe it's Cabo?

Quote:

We'll, uh yeah, that's pretty obvious, isn't it? Your point? Would it be more of an issue if it was in someone else's back yard? Oh, wait, you must mean someplace far away like Sri Lanka where they flattened the dunes for Development allowing the Tsunami to sweep in and kill people? Hmmm, naw, it could never happen here... () burble ()

Quote:

You need to ask a few Mexicans what they think about more jobs.

You're assuming there will be less jobs building somewhere besides the dunes? Why?

Actually, SEMARNAP will do the asking, and they won't be asking the Gringos or even the Mexicans who were brought in from the mainland for jobs and then stranded when the jobs went away.

Bruce is right... What will happen will happen. May as well just roll up a spliff and fugedaboudit, right?

Quote:

Me thinks you must be and Eco Kook! :lol:

What is that? You mean you think I must be a "Cactus Hugger?" Yow! :spingrin:

(Hey, YankeeIrishman, 2,000 views and counting...)

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by BajaRescue]

Hey Dune King....

yankeeirishman - 6-15-2005 at 11:09 PM

Yes! Over 2000 hits! You are King of Dunes. On this Baja Blackie response to you.....dont let this guy drag you on with worthless typeset. You have made your point here clearly, and most agree. Why dont you do a little write up on your town there. You know...best eatery in the joint, places to visit, da da da......Nevermind Vegas....it's a city of losers, and few winners.

Baja Fescue

The Gull - 6-16-2005 at 06:44 AM

You are an American weed in Baja.
Crowding out the natural flora and fauna.
You are an eco-threat.

Hopefully, you will be out on the beach in front of the dunes (protecting them) with your binoculars watching for the tsunami when it comes.

BajaRescue - 6-16-2005 at 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
You are an American weed in Baja.
Crowding out the natural flora and fauna.
You are an eco-threat.

I forget. Is this all about me again, or is this now all about you trying to make it all about me again? (Where's that damn Forum decoder ring...)

yankeeirishman - 6-16-2005 at 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
You are an American weed in Baja.
Crowding out the natural flora and fauna.
You are an eco-threat.

Hopefully, you will be out on the beach in front of the dunes (protecting them) with your binoculars watching for the tsunami when it comes.

tsunami when it comes? Dude....you think this is funny stuff? I dont. And 260,000 other humans from last year's tsunami that died as they felt death swallow them. Dont think about becoming a stand up comic!

BajaRescue - 6-16-2005 at 07:51 AM

Quote:

Why dont you do a little write up on your town there. You know...best eatery in the joint, places to visit, da da da......Nevermind Vegas....it's a city of losers, and few winners.

Hey, yankeeirishman, good idea! I'm getting bored with debating dune development, as probably most of the knowmads here by now.

OK, best breakfast in town? Cafe Brown gets my vote. Iker makes some mean Mexican eggs... Hot as you want. :fire:

wilderone - 6-16-2005 at 09:47 AM

".. that sand dune looks remarkably like a thousand other beaches that have been developed all over baja. If you want to see a real sand dune, go to Glamis. What makes that one so special?" It's a COASTAL dune, PG:

Coastal dunes are significantly different from sand dunes in desert areas. Desert dunes shift continually in the direction of prevailing winds and have little to no vegetative cover. Coastal dunes, however, are covered in specialized grasses that have the unique ability to survive in shifting sand, continually producing new stems and roots through cycles of burial and exposure. This net of grasses stabilize the dunes, and when damaged by construction and vehicles, or removed by human interference, the dunes will begin migrating inland, covering everything in their path and allowing the sea to flood low lying inland areas. Dunes are the sand reservoir for the beaches and when they are removed, the beaches follow suit. Coastal Dunes act as a buffer against high surf and summer storms, protecting low lying inland areas from flooding. Equally important, these dunes provide a sand reservoir that replaces sand eroded from the beach. Beach erosion, with the subsequent loss of recreational areas, has severely affected local economies and taxpayers are now funding large-scale coastal dune restoration projects. Local Mexican environmental groups, such as "Sociedad de Historia Natural Niparaja" of La Paz, are working with government officials to enact regulations in Mexico to prevent similar destruction of Baja's coastal dunes.

"Las Barrancas" in the East Cape region north of Cabo Pulmo suffered a severe storm with high surf which swept away up to 20 meters of developed beach front property, resulting in partial to total destruction of a number of homes, leaving others perched on newly formed sand cliffs overlooking the beach. Property owners are now erecting bulkheads and seawalls in an attempt to prevent further erosion of their remaining land. Such structures, as experience in other coastal areas has shown, have proved to contribute to or accelerate local coastal erosion. This cycle of construction and destruction has been repeated in coastal areas worldwide. The only successful solution has been to protect the existing dunes and restore those that have been destroyed.

yankeeirishman - 6-16-2005 at 10:13 AM

Smash it to em Wilderone! Good response.

For futher education of Sand Dunes:
http://www.ew.govt.nz/enviroinfo/coasts/coastalecosystems/du...

PJC - 6-16-2005 at 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Desert dunes shift continually in the direction of prevailing winds and have little to no vegetative cover.

Then, why are you eco-clowns trying to close down Glamis to supposedly protect the Simpson's Mile Vetch plant?

Some folks just dont get it about dunes

yankeeirishman - 6-16-2005 at 01:03 PM

Arthur - 6-16-2005 at 01:52 PM

What's all this academic gibberish about cause and effect? I bet you went to COLLEGE. Maybe even in Berkeley. So much for your opinion.

If we could have destroyed all those dunes before you lefties got to study them, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's do-gooders like you that bring down property values -- not floods and drifting sand.

Me No - 6-16-2005 at 02:11 PM

Take a good look at Fescue's picture. If anyone were stupid enough to actually build something there, the next hurricane would certainly take care of the problem. It's in the bottom of a Vado. Looks to be another do gooder looking for personal glory. What is the web site you host again?

and the moral of the story is...

eetdrt88 - 6-16-2005 at 02:41 PM

if you've got some environmental cause or some cute little endangered animal or any other somewhat sensitive subject you want to share about,best not do it here because we would rather talk about things like which mexican beer tastes best.....how many hand operated fire engines exist in Baja....why old grumpy gringos want to date hot young latina girls....which Nomad gives the others the most grief...which exhaust system will work best on our new trucks....where you can get the best radar detector at the cheapest price....or any other number of highly intellectual subjects.....but whatever you do....Do not,i repeat Do not post about some poor pitiful sand dunes in the middle of nowhere that some developer just cant wait to get his hands on....that subject seems to really infuriate some people here which could lead to high blood pressure,ulcers,even the dreaded hemmeroids.....so as the old expression goes...."Dummy up"....stick to simple topics which are easy on the mind and dont put any of us out of our "comfort zone"

:

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by eetdrt88]

BajaRescue - 6-16-2005 at 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88
"Dummy up"....stick to simple topics which are easy on the mind and dont put any of us out of our "comfort zone"

OK, got it now, eetdrt88!

Best Dinner in Todos Santos? El Tamarindo. Nice courtyard, cheap and very good food and service. Most haven't discovered it yet. Even the locals, who were turned off by the previous owners, haven't come back. Try the rellenos.

boy,did you ever read that wrong

eetdrt88 - 6-16-2005 at 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Originally posted by eetdrt88
if you've got some environmental cause or some cute little endangered animal or any other somewhat sensitive subject you want to share about,best not do it here because we would rather talk about things like which mexican beer tastes best.....how many hand operated fire engines exist in Baja....why old grumpy gringos want to date hot young latina girls....which Nomad gives the others the most grief...which exhaust system will work best on our new trucks....where you can get the best radar detector at the cheapest price....or any other number of highly intellectual subjects.....but whatever you do....Do not,i repeat Do not post about some poor pitiful sand dunes in the middle of nowhere that some developer just cant wait to get his hands on....that subject seems to really infuriate some people here which could lead to high blood pressure,ulcers,even the dreaded hemmeroids.....so as the old expression goes...."Dummy up"....stick to simple topics which are easy on the mind and dont put any of us out of our "comfort zone"

:

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by eetdrt88]

Wow, like how cool of you, Laguna Dude, to like recognize the true, like, inner values of the postings here. Dude, if you were, like, really interested in like saving animals and things why did you live in Laguna and not in the jungle?

I would gamble that some people on this board still remember Laguna Beach when it was like waaayy natural and not filled with rump rangers and hypocrites.

i think youve got me confused with someone else, i'm not mr.environmental....i was merely adding a little humor in a mix of a bunch of uptight posts...i mean i've got to say that it is funny to watch how mad some people here get about environmental issues,i'm talking about people on both sides of the argument.....oh btw the reason i live in Laguna is because my wife and I are artists and we sell her art here at the Sawdust Festival from july1 to sept.4....so its more of a money thing than anything else....if any nomads are in the area and are interested in coming to the festival just let me know and I will get you in for free and the first round is on me....did i mention they have some great live music as well,here is the link to their websitehttp://www.sawdustartfestival.org/

Me No - 6-16-2005 at 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
I would gamble that some people on this board still remember Laguna Beach when it was like waaayy natural and not filled with rump rangers and hypocrites.

Rump Rangers. :moon::moon::moon: :lol:

Dude, thats, like, way funny!

pokey - 6-16-2005 at 03:41 PM

afghani x oaxacan anyone?

BajaRescue - 6-16-2005 at 03:48 PM

Best "All You Can Eat" Pizza? Saturday at Restaurante Santanas. For 55 pesos, funky surfer digs, open air palapa bar, good drinks (you can even watch the sunset go down over the dunes a few miles away :)

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by BajaRescue]

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