BajaNomad - Baja Expedition Topo Map Review

Baja Expedition Topo Map Review

Neal Johns - 11-23-2005 at 07:34 PM

Baja Expedition Topo Map Review

Map Available ($89) From: http://www.bicimapas.com.mx/baja_gps_map.htm
or
http://www.lbmaps.com/baja_exp_.htm

Screen shots of larger cities:
http://www.lbmaps.com/exp_screshots.htm

Now that I have been to Baja a few days with the map installed on a Garmin 176C here is the final review:

Pros:
1. It is probably the best Baja map you can get to load into your Garmin GPS.
2. Its detail is somewhere between the AAA map and the Baja Almanac map.
A. It has topo lines and when you put the cursor on any unidentified elevation line, it shows the elevation of that line.
B. A large number of Rancho?s are named.
C. A large number of Peaks are named.
D. A large number of Arroyo?s are named.
E. Many dirt two track roads are shown (cursor ID?s them as Trail).
F. It has ?Snap to Highway? when enabled by your GPS (when 500 feet or so from a major highway, the moving map ?car? jumps to the road.). It does not snap to dirt roads (good).
G. Hwy. One is in the right place in the Catavina area ? but the old road is not shown.
H. Large City streets are great.

Cons:
1. It is a work in progress, it has several amateurish flaws.
A. Several towns were left out; San Felipe is a blank spot with the roads not connected, Catavina is missing (Rancho Inez and airport are there); El Marmol is missing, etc.
B. Several fairly major roads are missing, the road to BOLA stops short a few miles of getting there, the road to El Marmol is missing, the normal road to Desengano (Mile 7 off the BOLA road) is not shown, the one a few miles east is etc.
C. When you drive on the BOLA road, your ?bread crumb trail? erases the nice heavy red line of the pavement and leaves the fainter dotted line. Minor annoyance.
D. The normal road to Desengano (Mile 7 off the BOLA road) is not shown. The one a few miles east is shown.

Summary:
Recommended. I?m glad I bought it. When you travel over a road that is not on the map, you will leave a track that will ?stick? to the Garmin map managing program MapSource, so one day I will have the perfect map. Ha!

If a town is not on the map, create a Waypoint and name it ?Catavina? or whatever and it is labeled forevermore.

Other Alternatives:
Use a laptop or PDA with a GPS connected with scanned Baja Almanac (or whatever) maps in combination with OziExplorer mapping software.
http://www.oziexplorer.com

Sample of travels around El Marmol area with tracks:

[Edited on 11-24-2005 by Neal Johns]

[Edited on 11-24-2005 by Neal Johns]

Thanks for the update...very interesting!

Mexray - 11-23-2005 at 08:16 PM

...looks like it has possibilities...

BTW, shouldn't you be out in the bodega 'stuffing the turkey'....on this Turkey-Day, eve?....

Hope you and all the other 'Nomads' have a happy Thanksgiving Holiday!

Bob H - 11-24-2005 at 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexray
Hope you and all the other 'Nomads' have a happy Thanksgiving Holiday!

Audrey and I are lifting our glass to wish you a very Happy Thanksgiving to you and Pat. And, maybe a cigar too! Hah. :spingrin:

wornout - 11-24-2005 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neal Johns
Baja Expedition Topo Map Review

Map Available ($89) From: http://www.bicimapas.com.mx/baja_gps_map.htmBaja
or
http://www.lbmaps.com/baja_exp_.htm

Screen shots of larger cities:
http://www.lbmaps.com/exp_screshots.htm

I bought the other version of their baja map, LBMaps.com Baja V1.1 about a year ago. It was around $30 if I remember correctly. It is ok but does not have the detail you show. Below is a zoom of San Felipe. Looks like I might wait for version 2 of the topo. Thanks for the info.

Taco de Baja - 11-24-2005 at 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neal Johns
Baja Expedition Topo Map Review

Cons:
1. It is a work in progress, it has several amateurish flaws.
A. Several towns were left out; San Felipe is a blank spot with the roads not connected, Catavina is missing (Rancho Inez and airport are there); El Marmol is missing, etc.
B. Several fairly major roads are missing, the road to BOLA stops short a few miles of getting there, the road to El Marmol is missing, the normal road to Desengano (Mile 7 off the BOLA road) is not shown, the one a few miles east is etc.
C. When you drive on the BOLA road, your ?bread crumb trail? erases the nice heavy red line of the pavement and leaves the fainter dotted line. Minor annoyance.
D. The normal road to Desengano (Mile 7 off the BOLA road) is not shown. The one a few miles east is shown.

Thanks for the great review Neal.
I would suggest you email your "negative" findings to the company, so they can work in updating in their next version. You can't improve something you don't know is broken.

turtleandtoad - 11-24-2005 at 08:41 AM

Does it have an automatic "notify of error" function to let the company know where the problems are, like S&T?

Neal Johns - 11-24-2005 at 08:55 AM

T&T, I don't think so.... :lol:

This is super---thanks, Neal----

Barry A. - 11-24-2005 at 09:07 AM

On your sample map--------is the waypoint on the far right side of the map labelled "broke" what I think it is???-----the actual location of the famous Toyota "breakdown"? :lol:

bajalou - 11-24-2005 at 09:49 AM

You're a bunch of ???????

Bound and determined to make me buy another GPSr aren't you. You know my faithful old 12XL won't show all this stuff so you just have to keep tempting me Grrrrrrr

Oh well, Ebay here I come.

:mad:

Neal Johns - 11-24-2005 at 11:34 AM

Barry A.
That is indeed where the front suspension ball joint seperated!

BajaLou,
Wait a few months until Garmin refreshes their line with the new SirfStar III chip. It is a real wonder. I have a Holux Bluetooth GPS with it and get seven satellites in the living room of a two story house, and works great in canyons. Garmin announced a couple of months ago they were now in bed with Sirf and some of their new models have it inside.

I will be going to CES (Consumer Electronics Show) in Las Vegas in January and will smoose with the Garmin reps and see what is coming up. (I have a fake company - Crabill-Johns, Inc. named after my old girl friend, that gets me in. Don't tell Marian) :lol:

That said, I have a severe case of GPS Envy after seeing buddy Jay's (TacoFeliz) Lowrence Baja 5" color screen in his Tundra. Size counts. It's so bright my eyes still hurt! :lol:

But it won't take the Baja Topo map (for Garmin only). Hee Hee Hee

bajalou - 11-24-2005 at 11:45 AM

I'm waiting for you reports Neal - thanks

:?:

willieb - 11-24-2005 at 11:58 AM

Don't know if this helps, but a freind of mine wrote a book on making your own gps maps.

Some free sites and maps in the book for down loading.

I just got the book and have not had a chance to look at it yet.

Sorry if I spoke with out looking into it better.

www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com

Dan

P.S If the book is of interest to anyone I will be on my way down in jan to L.B
could bring them down for someone

Neal Johns - 11-24-2005 at 01:47 PM

Yeah, Willib, I have watched the Garmin Map crack teams at work for years and confess that it is completely beyond my capabilities to use their tools to make maps for the Garmin.

If anyone wants to try, the links to the tools are in the Bicimapas web site.

willieb - 11-26-2005 at 12:15 PM

Hi Neal, I well understand, it sounds over my head too. Got the book just because he is my freind. But I thought I would share some of the free resources.

www.jdcox.com

www.gpsinformation.net/waas/maps/usaphoto.html

www.digitalgrove.net/USAPhotoMaps_Instructions.htm

www.kimdara.com/usaphotomaps/index.html

For free maps online

www.gpsy.com/maps

For vector data

data.geocomm.com

There are more if anybody wants them

best regards
Dan

wornout - 11-26-2005 at 05:44 PM

Hey Lou, get you checkbook out:

Noticed that Bass Pro Shop is listing Garmin 60 & 76 C(S)x models that are similar to the corresponding current ones but with the Sirf III GPS chip and a TransFlash memory card.

http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=736...

[Edited on 11-27-2005 by wornout]

bajalou - 11-26-2005 at 08:37 PM

Those are looking good Wornout, and not quite as pricey as I expected - now just get someone to buy the 1600 Single Port long block I've got in the garage and I'll get my order in.

By the way, jdmcox is the producer of USAPhotoMaps - a great program for downloading TerraServer data - which is only of the USA. Sure wish they had Mexico.

LarryB - 11-27-2005 at 09:25 PM

Neal
If you can send me some of them tracks you are laying I can work them into the next version.

By far the hardest part of producing Baja GPS maps is finding data. In the US we have so much information we are tripping over it. The government agencies give it away for free.

Mexico is a bit different. The Mexican government wants a large amount of money for what little data there is, especially Baja data. The topo data used to make the "Expeditioner" was gathered by US satellites and given to the Mexican government, who will not, without royalties, allow anyone to use it. That is the biggest reason for the high price relative for what one can buy in US maps. The other big reason is the relatively low demand for Baja GPS maps. But the demand is growing.

Anyway, it's nice to see a real world review.
Thank,
Larry
www.LBMaps.com

[Edited on 11-28-2005 by LarryB]

ursidae69 - 11-27-2005 at 09:41 PM

I just emailed lbmaps to ask about Magellan and then saw your post LarryB. Any chance you'll have some software soon that will work with magellan's MapSend software? I have a Magellan Explorist 600. Thanks!

LarryB - 11-27-2005 at 09:50 PM

As of now there is nothing available. Magellen had requested a while back that we stop using their proprietary file structure. So we stopped developing maps for their GPS units. However, lately there are a few new things developing with them that I should know more about soon. Watch our websites.

Larry

LarryB...Question for you...

Mexray - 11-28-2005 at 12:00 AM

I've got a couple of Garmin GPS handheld units, but just recently bought the new 'Garmin GPS 18 USB' set that provides a US Mapsource Data CD, along with with a Garmin GPS 'puck' antenna for use with a Laptop PC...

Threw it on my old Compaq Laptop, stuck the 'puck' to the inside of my windshield and started navigating around my Northern California neighborhood...works great right out of the box, and the positions shown on their Mapsource maps seems to be right on target! Lots of good features for routing, finding places in urban areas, has audio alerts on established tracks, etc, etc...and my 15 inch laptop screen is a lot easier to read than any smaller unit.

Now the big question....can I install your Baja files (software) on my laptop and navigate around below the border with my new Garmin 'puck' showing the way?

I like what Neal has shown above...Thanks.

Neal Johns - 11-28-2005 at 12:09 AM

LarryB,
How (format) do you want the track data ?

LarryB - 11-28-2005 at 06:58 AM

MexRay
Our maps install directly into MapSource so will work the same, other than autorouting. Ours do not have the autorouting feature, again due to lack of available data. Are you using nRoute with this setup?

Neal
.gdb is preferred but I can work with just about anything. Thanks.

Larry

Neal Johns - 11-28-2005 at 11:42 AM

LarryB,
Give me an email at aridnealatearthlinkdotnet

Larry B - any Lowrance insights?

TacoFeliz - 12-1-2005 at 10:55 AM

Just wondered if you had any info on Lowrance files and protocols. Uploading and downloading tracks and waypoints on my 480c is a cinch, though little info on putting together real maps (outside of U.S. MapCreate) is available.

I am fluent in a broad spectrum of both vector and raster programs but unsure where to look for more in-depth info.

Thanks.
Jay

[Edited on 12-1-2005 by TacoFeliz]

wornout - 12-1-2005 at 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryB
Neal
If you can send me some of them tracks you are laying I can work them into the next version.

By far the hardest part of producing Baja GPS maps is finding data. In the US we have so much information we are tripping over it. The government agencies give it away for free.

Anyway, it's nice to see a real world review.
Thank,
Larry
www.LBMaps.com

[Edited on 11-28-2005 by LarryB]

Larry, I sent you some of the tracks we have been creating in the San Felipe area. Enjoy, hope you can use them. They are in OZI PLT format. The file is 2,119 KB in size. Hope your spam blocker doesn't mess up a good thing.

LarryB...

Mexray - 12-1-2005 at 04:42 PM

Yes, the new Garmin laptop mapping/GPS puck system uses their 'nRoute', along with Mapsource, 'City Select - North American v6' data.

I have a separate Mapsource No. American MetroGuide CD on my desktop PC, so I downloaded your sample from your website to check it out - works painlessly. I am assuming your Baja data could also be downloaded to the 'nRoute' program and work in a similar fashion. I could then put all the Baja Regions on my laptop's hard drive to have complete access.

I understand that the auto routing wouldn't work, but I would be able to leave 'bread crumbs' as I moved through Baja, in the way Neal did with his Garmin GPS unit.

I also have an older Garmin Legend GPS, but the mono-display is so small, and the memory being limited, I think I'll stick to the Laptop's big display - at least while in my vehicle...'on-foot' is another matter!

regards, Ray

LarryB - 12-1-2005 at 05:59 PM

Jay

Sorry but I'm no help at all on the Lowrance stuff. I can barely keep my head above water with Garmin. :?:

Have you looked at some of the conversion utilities like GPSBabel?

Ray
That's what I use. nRoute in the car/RV and a 76cs on the bikes. I have a couple Legends I use as loggers. I loan them to people to carry along on their trips so I can get the tracks. The Garmin Lengend works well on the "Navigator" map but the "Expeditioner" topo map has too many lines for the tiny monochrome screen to be useful. All the topo lines look like roads.

Wornout
Holy moley!!! Thats some great tracks. Thank you. This will really add to the San Felipe area detail. I'll send you an update as soon as I get it all on.

Larry

[Edited on 12-2-2005 by LarryB]

wornout - 12-1-2005 at 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryB

Wornout
Holy moley!!! Thats some great tracks. Thank you. This will really add to the San Felipe area detail. I'll send you an update as soon as I get it all on.

Larry

[Edited on 12-2-2005 by LarryB]

Thanks for the note, Bajalou did most of the work of merging them together. Then he taught me how to do it. Thanks for the great product....wornout

LarryB...just one more question...

Mexray - 12-1-2005 at 08:40 PM

...Do you offer 'updates' your mapping software products?

With all the discussions above about the addition of user submitted 'tracks'...do you compile this data and make it available to existing 'customers', similar to Garmin?

I think Garmin's update policy makes their GPS' one of the best values in today's electronic gizmo world...Sure, they make bigger and brighter products, but their continued support of their older units makes them 'Kings' in my book!

Thanks...

LarryB - 12-1-2005 at 09:28 PM

Ray

The "Navigator" map is the one I produce myself. I send out update notice/links to customers for one year from date of purchase. If a customer sends in tracks/waypoints that are useful I put a bug next to his/her name for extra update time depending on what they have sent. Wornout will be getting multiple brownie points for his excellent contribution. I hope to have a new update for this map within a few weeks. To me this seems the best way to build a realworld Baja GPS map.

The "Expeditioner" topo map is produced by www.Bicimapas.mx.com and
LBMaps.com is the US distributor fo CD versions of this map. We also sell download versions online. Updates, when produced will be retroactive. There are none in the works presently but the map has only been out for a few months. I am presently compiling a batch of updates/fixes and will format them for inclusion in their next update, if they are interested.

It would be nice to have it all on one map but for now this is the best there is. Bicimapas has commitments to the Mexican government for the TOPO data that I cannot afford for the "Navigator". They are mostly interested in selling maps produced from this data source, INEGI.

My personal solution, at the risk of sounding like I am trying to sell more maps, is to use both at the same time. I have compiled the "Navigator" as a transparent map so they both can be seen at the same time, at least it works that way on my 76cs. On others I have had to upload them both and toggle between the maps. I primarily use the "Navigator" until I want to see the topo details, then I switch to the "Expeditioner". This also keeps the smaller screens cleaned up until I need the topo detail.

I hope this answers your questions.
Larry

[Edited on 12-2-2005 by LarryB]

niknas - 12-3-2005 at 03:28 PM

I just drove from Chula Visa to Los Barrilies this week using both Navigator and Baja Expedition using a Garmin 60cs. Here are first my criticisms of both Navigator and Expedition:

Navigator has very accurate detail for Mex-1 (Baja-1), turn by turn, towns, Pemex, etc. For the person traveling the main hi-way Navigator detail is very good. Highly recommended. Baja Expedition on the other hand waivers a fair amount off of the actual hi-way. I haven't had the chance to use the Baja Expedition off-road yet. This is where I hope it works best. As soon as I do go off-road I'll post my experience with Baja Expedition.

A very embarrassing mistake found in both programs is that Mexico-One when navigating (the high-way some times called Baja-One) is listed as US-1! Hard to explain that to the casual observer (a little Yankee imperialism maybe?). A patch to correct this should be issued ASAP.

LarryB, thanks for publishing this program, it is much needed.

Nik

LarryB - 12-3-2005 at 03:41 PM

I'll fix it right now. Where along Mex1 is it labeled wrong? Thanks for the heads-up. I should have an update available for the Navigator in a few days. It will include the new data I have rec over the past month, plus a bunch of small stuff.

Larry

niknas - 12-3-2005 at 03:51 PM

Larry,

I noticed it immediately when I turned on Guidance Text on my map page. i.e."heading south on US-1". And whenever you move your pointer to Mex-1 the box says US-1. The map is labeled correctly as Mex-1.

Nik

LarryB - 12-3-2005 at 04:55 PM

OK, I found it. I had fixed this in an update of Navigator last summer but evidently it was just after you purchased your map. I am emailing you the new update now.

I will also forward this info on to Bicimapas so they can fix the Expeditioner.

Larry

[Edited on 12-4-2005 by LarryB]

niknas - 12-4-2005 at 09:40 AM

Larry,

The update work on Navigator, nice to see Mex-1 listed.

Thanks,
Nic