BajaNomad

Wow! Minnow Where'd You Go?

Jim - 10-30-2003 at 09:02 PM

I was just in the midst of replying--without the use of anything profane or abusive--to Minnow's thread crying hypocracy on this board, when voil? I received the message "You're not permitted to view this forum"--or some such warning, and the whole thread disappeared into the ether.

I was attempting to suggest that Minnow should lighten up a bit and not take this board so seriously.
-that he should differentiate between the good, the not-so-good, and the downright awful rhetoric that is frequent here;
-that he should recognize the obsequious sycophants (redundancy intended);
-that no one on this board has demonstrated any expertness in any field no matter how eloquently we attempt to articulate our point (including this writer); and
-that life is way too short to get so uptight over anything to do with this Forum or any Forum on the World Wild Web.

Anyway, I didn't get to post it because it dissappeared. Gee, Minnow, maybe you are correct.

Oh well, my life goes on.

Mike Humfreville - 10-30-2003 at 09:05 PM

While I understand the need to audit and delete specific activities, I don't need to be part of a forum in which the moderators simply delete anything they want. Explanation please!

[Edited on 10-31-2003 by Mike Humfreville]

Minnow - 10-30-2003 at 09:35 PM

Well guy's, that is exactly what is happening. Five or six times in the last couple of days to my posts alone. No profanity, no name calling, only an opinion different from those in control. Free exchange of ideas, Hardly.

David K - 10-30-2003 at 09:42 PM

The thread started by Minnow asking about the Santiago Zoo funds disappeared from us all.

Jeans gave a very complete accounting in that thread. As it was Minnow who started that thread, it would have been Minnow who removed it.

Read the 'Board Suggestions' forum for my opinion as to why.

Jim, Minnow must have deleted the thread while you were in the middle of typing a reply.

BajaNomad - 10-30-2003 at 09:44 PM

Replied to 6 hours ago....

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=1514

Minnow - 10-30-2003 at 10:11 PM

That is funny David. Doug can tell you who deleted it. Doug why don't you let is all know.

Look what I missed

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 09:16 AM

Gee whiz, I am so disappointed that my comp. was down yesterday. I bet a lot of you enjoyed my silence though !
Hey Minnow, aren't you in south Baja somewhere ? I 'm headed down in about 3 weeks if not sooner. I will bring the Pacificos if your interested.

And they wonder why.

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 11:25 AM

It's no wonder they doubled the price at America south hotsprings. Costs more to put up with the clucking and cackling :lol:

Moderation

Mike Humfreville - 10-31-2003 at 04:40 PM

While the owner of a web board can do whatever they please with it, a MODERATOR is not necessarilly the owner. A RESPONSIBLE moderator would not delete ANY thread HE or SHE has participated in. Anything elsewise is UNETHICAL.

David K - 10-31-2003 at 06:05 PM

You are exactly correct Mike... That's why I know M didn't delete the Santiago Zoo thread... Only Minnow could have, and he is getting some of you to believe he is some kind of victim.

Wise up Jim, Tucker, Ski Baja... Minnow has turned against people like us who share Baja (that's why any of us is on the Internet Baja boards, I thought), and joined the few who consider Baja a private playground to be kept secret, at thaaat other place.

The thread that is now gone, started by Minnow, was asking jeans about the Santiago Zoo fund. Jeans answered in detail... As it wasn't the answer Minnow thought he would get and it didn't make jeans 'look bad', Minnow deleted it since it made him look petty for asking.

Too bad where there is 'good' (for most baja lovers), there is evil to try and distroy good.

Minnow, you were once an amigo, joined us at BBBB-1, gave us great amounts of fish, joined us again at Viva Baja-3, then got hostile once you went to thaaat other place... The place were slander, insults, and ridicule gains you high marks. Where a photo taken with a telephoto lens of me scratching my butt has been repeatedly posted for their laughs. A photo that included my child and license plate. A photo the host or the poster refused to remove. Nice place, huh?

This board is for Baja loving people who have matured beyond that.

Minnow - 10-31-2003 at 06:35 PM

David K, please explain what the santiago zoo thread has to do this what we are discussing here. For your information, Jeans PMS'ed me and told me how she thought my questions were accusatory and wrong. I didn't get her message until after I posted my response. I thought she wanted me to delete that thread.

Since things seem to be going to fast for you I will explain what is going on here. M deleted several of my posts that had to do with her and Jeans, Guadalupe Canyon thread. Then when I protested on new threads, she just went along hitting the delete key to all of my posts. Jim, got caught in that, and so did Doug Means, as he had used it as a quote in his suggestions and comments section.

Turned against you. Get real. I never was with you. I am an individual capable of forming my own opinions based on facts. I am one hell of a nice guy. I try and help people and do the right thing, but when hypocracy throws itself in my face, I will not stand for it.

If I didn't give a crap about what happens here and the future of this board, I would never have said anything. I however do. Good things can happen here, but not if only the thoughts and needs of a few are represented.

I have more to say but have plans tonight.

Stay tuned for Jeans PMs-messages. The lady could make a truck driver blush.

Bullpoop

Ski Baja - 10-31-2003 at 06:52 PM

OK, I see my name mentioned David. Actually, I followed that entire conversation between Jeans and Minnow. I thought it appropriate that he asked where the donations went since he hadn't heard. I also thought Jeans gave a very good reply which was answered by Minnow with a very sincere if not apologetic answer.
I was kinda hoping the money went towards getting rid of all zoos on the planet but that's beside the point. There seems to be one right here.
As the most down to earth and logical person on these boards, (Mike Humphreville) pointed out to me and others, perhaps things are being read into posts and skirting if not altogether losing their true meaning when posted.
Nevertheless, if it continues to be a back and forth "hen house" sort of issue, it will never be resolved and possible future friends might end up as enemies without a chance being given.
Please, leave this "American" style behaviour at the border. Because I certainly don't see the Mexicans acting in this manner. Unless of course I am buying eggs.:lol:

David K - 10-31-2003 at 06:53 PM

I read where M said she deleted ONE of your posts, and said why.

I am glad you finally admitted to deleting the entire Santiago Zoo thread, instead of blaming the moderators. Now, I hope Mike Humfreville and others who were getting upset at Baja Nomad will read your admission.

Welcome to the

thebajarunner - 10-31-2003 at 07:03 PM

Aw, come on folks...
At our house we have a cat box where the cat does her business. Sounds like you all are spending too much time in there.
Lighten up, or Doug will take his board and go home.
Thanks for being tolerant Sr. Dueno del Sitio...

Baja Vida!!

Your almost right DK

M - 10-31-2003 at 07:20 PM

The posts I deleted were because I got a number of e-mails requesting that I delete your hostile posts. EVEN A REQUEST FROM STEPHANIE J. now THAT is hypocracy. I resisted deleting at first and pointed out they were opinions and were not vulgar, HOWEVER, you just got meaner as reins were rather loose and I granted their requests. I deleted ****1***(ONE)on my own accord as it was hostile and directed to the women on this board. As for the Zoo thread, I did not delete it despite it being a transparant gimmick to stir up crap and question Jeans honesty on the board for all to see. Despite your nasty intent, she was very civil and detailed in her response. I am rather surprised that a tantrum like yours has gone on for so long...Arn't you tired of it yet? I hope so. M

jeans - 10-31-2003 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
Stay tuned for Jeans PMs-messages. The lady could make a truck driver blush.


There was not one profane word anywhere in my messages to you.

David K - 10-31-2003 at 07:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by M
The posts I deleted were because I got a number of e-mails requesting that I delete your hostile posts. EVEN A REQUEST FROM STEPHANIE J. now THAT is hypocracy. I resisted deleting at first and pointed out they were opinions and were not vulgar, HOWEVER, you just got meaner as reins were rather loose and I granted their requests. I deleted ****1***(ONE)on my own accord as it was hostile and directed to the women on this board. As for the Zoo thread, I did not delete it despite it being a transparant gimmick to stir up crap and question Jeans honesty on the board for all to see. Despite your nasty intent, she was very civil and detailed in her response. I am rather surprised that a tantrum like yours has gone on for so long...Arn't you tired of it yet? I hope so. M


M... as Minnow isn't named, and only I am in your heading... it may not be clear to whom you are directing the above... Thank you for clearing it up. Perhaps it is clear and I am just too full of Halloween candy to see it, LOL! Happy Halloween everybody!

[Edited on 11-1-2003 by David K]

DK

M - 10-31-2003 at 08:05 PM

DK wrote: "I read where M said she deleted ONE of your posts, and said why."

I deleted1(one) post on my own. The other posts that I deleted were from people who e-mailed me and asked me to delete them.
THAT is what I was referring to David. The rest of my post was directed to Minnow.

Minnow - 10-31-2003 at 08:34 PM

HAHAHAHAHA! When Jeans and Dk e-mail you to delete a post, or bring it to your attention, doesn't mean it you should delete it. You are the Moderator, you make the decisions. To delete posts from a thread you are involved in is UNETHICAL!

[Edited on 1-11-2003 by Minnow]

Mike Humfreville - 10-31-2003 at 09:23 PM

Isn't it great we have so many strong personalities here!? But to repeat my opinion: you should not contribute to a thread you moderate! At the very best it's a cheap shot to be able to say something while you have the ability to delete anothers words.

And at the same time, I think we all read into others words what the writer is truly trying to express. While it's not my place to judge and I always try to see both sides, I can understand that it had been a while since jeans posted where funds went. But when I originally read Toms post inquiring into same I sensed a certain animosity on his part. I don't know where that came from, but it's not my affair, it was just there, if only in my mind.

I trust jeans, I donated along with many of us and knew she would do the right thing. I trust Tom to also do what he thinks is the right thing in asking for an accounting.

Perhaps the damage was done in the tone of Toms post (NOT to find blame where none exists). Maybe jeans should have let us all know re $$$, I don't know.

But here's what I do know.

1. My family and I have made hundreds of good friends because of Amigos, Freds and now bajanomads boards.

2. We have these flareups from time-to-time and they go away sooner or later. Many of us have strong personalities and at least unique patterns of behavior. We should expect that, to appreciate that.

3. I have learned patience (what little I have) from writing, reviewing and re-writing to try and remove unintentional insults to those I enjoy (occasionally there are folks I ENJOY peeing off).

4. I want our group to continue to grow and gather occasionally in common sites where those of us who so choose (ALL of us who choose) can kick back and get to know each other around campfires, across generations, incomes, lifestyles, educational backgrounds, etc, etc, etc.

5. I know that I hate it when we grow selective and self-oriented, pushing some hidden agenda. And that includes me: I don't want to dominate but to fit into the middle.

Wherever my family and I travel in Baja lately, we find folks we already know. Many of them we have met previously thanks to boards like Nomads; some we know only from their "web" name, but we know their general nature by their words we have read. It's a wonderful, warming time. In early October we met accidentally at Gecko in Bahia de Los Angeles where the entire camp just had a great time, swapped dinners and lunches and fishing trips and friendships and jokes and campfires into the night, withstood storms and boating problems and laughed through it all and had a great time and were saddened when we had to leave such great folks behind.

THAT'S what makes relationships work for me. Were there times in that trip where I was mildly annoyed by some friend? YES! But I let it go and poof, the next morning it was history. We ALL have irritating facets. ALL of us. End of Rant. Sorry.

Let's get on with building pleasures in each other rather than tearing ourselves down???

the last word

thebajarunner - 10-31-2003 at 09:36 PM

You guys are like my kids, everyone has to have the last word.... always.
And I ain't got no dog in this fight......

Baja Vida!!

E-mails

M - 10-31-2003 at 09:41 PM

For everybody's information, DK never wrote me an e-mail RE this tantrum. Jeans called me at home to ask if I had seen the posts. I told her I was NOT going to delete them beacause whoever posts has a right to their opinion despite it being childish and hurtfull. MY FEELINGS were that I wanted to delete them, but refrained for the above reasons. I figured the rants would eventually stop. Well, the rants not only didn't stop, they got more hurtfull and mean. It was AFTER I received 4 more e-mails (1 from Stephanie) that I caved and deleted them. No Mike and Minnow, I do not randomly delete posts for my own agenda. As for what is and is not ethical, quit looking at me and check out a mirror. M

If asking for an explicitly profane post to be deleted is your idea of hypocrisy, call me what you

Stephanie Jackter - 10-31-2003 at 09:41 PM

like, M. I'm just SO lucky I'm not dependent on your respect for my self esteem. Only on fair moderation on your part. I went on the pertinent thread and said that I'd pressed the report button on that post and told why and then noticed the offending material had been deleted, according to him, by Minnow himself. Then I deleted my own posts to keep that thread from taking on a topic that wasn't appropriate to it. I did the right thing on both counts.

I did not read the Guadalupe Canyon thread and now that I know that Minnow deleted the Santiago Zoo thread himself, I have nothing to complain about - other than possibly, your insinuating that I'm a hypocrite. If that's your idea of being a moderating influence, that makes me into Mahatma Ghandi.
Ta Ta. I'm gonna go get a candy buzz and maybe tomorrow we'll both have a better day.

[Edited on 11-1-2003 by Stephanie Jackter]

M

Mike Humfreville - 10-31-2003 at 10:18 PM

I am in no way casting stones at you or anyone else. NOBODY is worse behaved than me.

The only thing I'm saying that involves you is that you cannot allow yourself to be a player in a game and also a referee.

It?s not that anyone made a mistake, rather how we strive for agreement and consensus.

Arriba y Adelante Amiga.

EDIT: Cheap deal with the mirror thing, M. You made an ethical error. Learn, don't deflect your mistakes, and let's go on to a greater tomorrow. Love ya. Mike


[Edited on 11-1-2003 by Mike Humfreville]

Hey, Mike H....?? please clue me in......

capt. mike - 11-1-2003 at 07:19 AM

What do you mean "you shouldn't contribute to a thread you moderate"?

I don't get it. I am the moderator of the Aviation section at baja.net , and don't see any problem with a conflict, in fact i start threads, jump in threads, (occaisionally lose "my threads!) etc. - no problem there with all that. If someone posted diatribe, hate prose, pics - whatever, but AGAINST the WRITTEN rules of engagement as prescribed by the board's OWNER, then my job is to critique and/ or remove it - regardless, i believe, whether or not i personally had any input elsewhere on the same thread. That's what the OWNER asked me to do in establishing me as a/the moderator. So....WTF?? what's unethical here? To be honest... there ain't much "ethical" anywhere on the net, its all cyberjunk - some fun , some boring, some neither. BTW - your stories can be entertaining - why not post some at the travels and adventures section at baja.net? Am sure others there would enjoy reading them.

It's funny to me all the petty back and forth here, and sometimes i play too! I don't see any of it at "Thaaaaat other place" - wanna know why? 'cause thooooose people are too busy havin' fun and going to Mexico, thaaaaaat's why!!

Anonymous - 11-1-2003 at 09:02 AM



[Edited on 11-1-2003 by Q87]

Minnow - 11-1-2003 at 10:01 AM

See some good has come of all this crap. In the above post the moderator deleted it. It states it.

Captn. Mike. I think that Mike H was refering to the fact that it was/is wrong to delete posts for no other reason than it is of a different opinion. Maybe he read my post on Guadalupe Canyon, I don't know. I do know what I wrote and how I wrote it and it was wrong for M to delete my comment, then later a few others.

As to why Mike H and others don't post at baja.net, I suspect it is because of all the complaining DK has done about that site has put some people off. I admit I was one of them. If however you go read it now you will see many of the people who had great information to provide post there. I know Mike H would be more than welcome there as he has great information, and his storys are second to none. If DK and Jeans had any sence of humor NONE of what happened to them over there would have.

Ken Bondy - 11-1-2003 at 11:41 AM

I don't think I know anyone on this board personally. But I have come to know most of the regulars by their writings. I have really enjoyed the diversity of opinions expressed here, and have come to like and respect virtually all of the posters, even if their opinions differ significantly from mine. As Mike H says, "Isn't it great we have so many strong personalities here!?". Yes it is, and that's why it is so disappointing to me when things get so personal and vitriolic. It would seem that this great diversity of opinion could get expressed without hurting one another. I don't mean to lecture, but I think I am older than most on the board and I don't want to see this fun forum disintegrate.
++Ken++

David K - 11-1-2003 at 12:53 PM

Well said Ken... Should we request the host or moderators to just delete all posts (with members' names included) whenever it has nothing to do with Baja trips or travel questions, those that are just digs at others? This includes any of mine where I mentioned ********, all (by the way) done in defence of harassment posts first made by him.

How about Doug, M, Q87... a clean house here on Nomad?

[Edited on 11-1-2003 by BajaNomad]

Hey Ken......

Debra - 11-1-2003 at 07:29 PM

I doubt very much that you are older than most posters here, if a poll were taken I would guess the adv. age to be 50plus (but you would have to leave Neal Johns and Mike H. out of the adv. since their ages would throw the adv. WAY OUT OF WACK! :o :D

Have to agree with Capt. Mike...

Casa P. D. y C. - 11-1-2003 at 07:34 PM

in regards to being able to post and moderate a board. One can do both.

In our opinion, to hang on the fence post is to hang one's self. Have the huevos to own up to your opinion and stick to it. Don't wait to see what others have to say and then go with the flow.

The back and forth nit picking and name calling is one of the reasons why we gave up on the Amigos board and went to thaaaaat other place. We were really hoping that didn't happen here.

When Jimmy Smith was at our home we had a discussion regarding this type of board conflict. He found it entertaining, and I guess from now on we will too.

Always look at the bright side of life...

P.S. I'm sure this won't be the last post on this thread, but don't put us in the cat box as we're done scratchin'!

Ken Bondy - 11-1-2003 at 07:45 PM

OK Debra I'll take the challenge. How many here are on the wrong side of 63? Damn, I don't even have much of 63 left, the clock ticks over to 64 for me in Feb.
++Ken++

Stephanie Jackter - 11-1-2003 at 08:09 PM


Ken, You must have the Grecian formula thing down. You still look younger than your dog. - Stephanie

I don't know Ken

Debra - 11-1-2003 at 08:10 PM

but, I think it might be an interesting poll to look at, however, I don't know how to do one of those poll thingies, maybe DK could help us out, he knows how. David? we could leave out names on the poll (so those sencitive about that "age" thing WOULD TELL THE TRUTH! ;D :D

Oh yeah, I should have added I've been just a meer 21 (for almost 28yrs.) :spingrin:

[Edited on 11-2-2003 by Debra]

Ken Bondy - 11-1-2003 at 09:10 PM

Stephanie, I took that avatar picture of myself under about 60 feet of sea water, which seems to filter out a lot of gray. Plus it was ten years ago when I was just a pup. Speaking of pups, Rosie, my little bulldog, looked older than me the day she was born.

Debra, I'm surprised nobody has done that poll yet. David K, please help! OTOH, I might not want to know the results.

++Ken++

Great quote.....

Debra - 11-1-2003 at 10:33 PM

"DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF......and it's all small stuff" Richard Carlson PH.D publisher Hyberion

Jim - 11-2-2003 at 10:30 AM

Okay,
Since I started this thread I suppose I have to plug in my age, which is 66.

Baja Bernie - 11-2-2003 at 04:54 PM

Well Jim,
As in poker the first bet in has to be topped--I'm 67 and confused, saddened, and angry at some of these past few posts by "insiders" from both camps. I care not whether it is fair, unfair, or down right bad---but for those of us who continue to demand our rights to express ourselves--I couldn't agree more BUT in an attempt to ensure fair play and to express our rights we run the risk of killing the goose that allows the forum to display our opinions.
Amigos de Baja was such a vehicle until Earle, Eric, and Trish decided that enough was enough and pulled the plug. Then Doug Means stepped in to provide another vehicle for our love of Baja. Now, some people are attacking, yet another board. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME! In order to express our views a few of us chose to kill the vehicle that allows us to express these views. I wonder what others, both on this earth and beyond would think if they read these various posts.
To everyone who reads this--HAVE A GREAT BAJA DAY!

Natalie Ann - 11-2-2003 at 05:11 PM

originally posted by Baja Bernie:
"I wonder what others, both on this earth and beyond would think if they read these various posts."

:lol: They're all ROFL

Skeet/Loreto - 11-2-2003 at 05:18 PM

Bernie: As an old timer of 72 whic includes 35 years of Baja I sure do like to read other peoples experiences in Baja. I like to answere questions if I can help.I like to know the people and what makes them tick,
I have come to an understanding that the so called diversity has divided this great country into 2 camps.,which carries over to Baja.
What will brings us together?
Will this board fold up and slip away to nothing or can each of us "Shut up and keep Poltics off this board"
I was off this board for awhile and then came back. I am as guilty as anyone .It is hard not to answer a complete Spin on a factual event.

Is there not a Board that would welcome all of this political stuff with out involving Baja. ?
I would support another BBBB or Baja Book signing . David K . Keep on trucking!