BajaNomad

Sierra de la Giganta Expedition

Bajaboy - 11-10-2003 at 10:01 AM

Hey Everyone-

Check out the following at http://www.kpbs.org/Radio/DynPage.php?id=793

KPBS is teaming up with the San Diego Natural History Museum for a expedition to Southern Baja California in November. The team which includes over 30 scientists from the U.S. and Mexico will spend three weeks in a relatively unexplored mountainous area called Sierra de la Giganta. The goal of the expedition is to survey the unusual mammals, birds, insects, snakes and plants that live there. That data will be used to design a conservation plan by Mexican and American conservation groups to encourage the Mexican government to protect the region.

KPBS reporter Eric Niiler - armed with a notebook, microphone, and camera - will be joining the expedition from November 7 through November 16. Starting Monday, November 10, Niiler plans to send daily updates and photos from the expedition to KPBS.

Niiler will also be joined by two videographers, who will document the expedition for a KPBS television program set to air in 2004.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-10-2003 at 10:38 AM

Bajaboy: Have you been able to determine if the group is supported by the Sierra Club and whether are not the Scientist are open minded people with not political Agend. It would been interesting to see a background resume on each one.
Sounds like a good project, It tood me 10, years and 10 flights around that mountain to see 3 Big Horn Sheep.{1986}
I would look forward to an unbaisied and Factual Report.Skeet/Loreto

Bighorn Sheep

Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 10:46 AM

Skeet, we have to get together for a trip up there. I know a place where they keep em in a corral to protect em from the Pumas.
And, you are correct in your question regarding their background. I have a feeling that in spite of their being scientists, Achademic Anarchist would be sick at what all these people are about to do.
I can only pray the guides don't show them all of the areas. It would be a shame.

Anonymous - 11-10-2003 at 12:57 PM

Their stated goal is to learn more about the area in question so they can help to PROTECT it! It is a pity that there are many for whom the glass is always half empty. Cheer up and think positive, for a change!!!!

elgatoloco

Anonymous - 11-10-2003 at 01:03 PM

Click here for a list of people involved

http://www.kpbs.org/Radio/DynPage.php?id=798

Anonymous - 11-10-2003 at 01:20 PM

Click here for updates on all the stuff the evil scientists are learning

http://www.kpbs.org/Radio/DynPage.php?id=797

of course FONATUR (mexican government) will probaly use the info to build a four lane highway for easy gringo access to the golf resort/marina that they will add to thier big plan

egl

update

jide - 11-10-2003 at 01:21 PM

here's for the badmouthing "uninformed" //www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/log11-9.html#five

Dave - 11-10-2003 at 01:24 PM

"That data will be used to design a conservation plan by Mexican and American conservation groups to encourage the Mexican government to protect the region."

What a joke! The only way to "encourage" Mexico to protect it's enviorns is to stick a gun to its head.
:fire:

There goes the neighborhood

Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 02:09 PM

I can already picture the spoiled , rich American tree hugging coke heads with their signs along the Carretera. Save the "Eucnide Tenella". I think maybe if they were to go poke around in Nopolo, they might do some good. Otherwise, it's just another crock of dung to go on a paid vacation to somewhere that isn't particularly any of their business. Excluding the Mexicans tagging along of course.:fire:

Anonymous - 11-10-2003 at 02:20 PM

If and when a time comes to take a stand, would you rather do it with ignorance? "The goal of the expedition is to survey the unusual mammals, birds, insects, snakes and plants that live there." Mines, agave fields, cattle and sheep, grazing, sand and rock quarries are a few of the threats.

Bajaboy - 11-10-2003 at 02:38 PM

Wow-It was not my intention to start a political discussion. Nope, I thought I was sharing a great opportunity to travel along with a group as they explore a remote part of Baja.

Didn't your mama tell you that politics and religion are not good topics to discuss at a party?

Viva la fiesta!
Zac

[Edited on 11-10-2003 by Bajaboy]

Skeet/Loreto - 11-10-2003 at 02:46 PM

Are a Few of the Theats"?

Sir I would certainlly hope that you would not Jump to concolusions by including me as being uniformed about the Mountain!
May I be so bold as to ask you to supply the date and time that you walked the Trail around that Mountain?

I was hoping that some of the people who were involved in the Kalmath Basin Fisco would not be involed along with the infamous Sierra Club in creating another False story.

It would be bery interesting to see if any of those "Investigators' have ever been to the Mountain with the Exception of Tim Means.

I would suggest that one person you migh talked to is one "Harry Crosby" and a few others that have a PHL{Dr. of Life}
I would also hope that you would look at the whole study from the Mexicano instead of Americano side of the issue.
Please do not make it a view that meets any pre judged notions spouted by the Envior-nuts or the Sierra Club.Skeet/Loreto.

Skeet/Loreto - 11-10-2003 at 02:57 PM

nd Others.

Please Please Please !! Any of you people going into this Area. Have REspect for one of the Last True places of Privacy!!
J. R. There is one beautifull small Water hole surronded by small trees that is fantastic.
It is my hope that he peop[le doing the survey are people of respect.Common Sense. We will only know after their report and Vido Stories.

Let Us all Hope that it will not be like CBS "The Reagans''

Please forgive me for being so bold but I do not want this thing to end up like so many of the so called Investigations end=not truthful Skeet/Loreto

Here we go

Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 03:01 PM

Americans, as a rule, tend to go into somewhere they don't belong, perhaps even with good intentions in the beginning and turn it into something different than it was. And generally, unless you consider developing the entire planet good and charging 3 to 10 times more for something than it is worth, it turns to "caca". (put that one in myself!) . And then they bail.
Here's where I tinckle off all of you but, do you think that other countries are blind when it comes to who has the most corrupt government, one of the worst education systems and highest rate of drug consumption, crime and addiction out of most anywhere on the planet.
All of the politicians lie publicly on a regular basis, the last Presidential election was a farce and now, an Action Figure for Governor. The court systems have absolutely nothing to do with truth, honesty, right and wrong but who has the most powerful attorney.
The rest of the world sees the U.S. as the most ridiculous country on the planet. And with fairly obvious reasons. We can't even get along with each other on a "Baja" message board of all things.
Yet we still insist on imposing our somewhat "barbaric" ways ( divorce rate and # of perverts ) on other countries because we have more money and a superior military.
Don't want to get sidetracked here but what is going on in that area down south is no different than any other endeavor/invasion of this type.
As far as using the information they find out down there, what if that Mansa de Plansa they find that has been curing cancer and most all other ailments for centuries is declared dangerous and illegal by some "U.S.FDA beaurocrat" and instead of them being able to get cured, they get put in jail.
Don't know what this word will be replaced with but,! intercourse that.

Thank you

Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 03:37 PM

And by the way BB, no matter any of our political views on this subject, I am sure we will all be glued to their story so muchas gracias.

jimmy smith - 11-10-2003 at 05:39 PM

Don't know why you folks are gettin' your panites in a wad over this,
I will state these folks with the Phd's behind their name know what they are doing. Hell, it"s their vocation.
I know several of them and can only grieve that I'm not on the treck. Good will come from this! Believe me!

Anonymous - 11-10-2003 at 05:46 PM

JIMMY!!!!

I believe.

What these people are doing is very important work. We have to know what it is we (humans) have if we (humans) are going to take care of it.

I would like to know who else is more qualified then these folks that are on this trip.

Trust you are feeling well!! Say hello to Sally & Char

Matthew C. Pebley
elgatoloco

Skeet/Loreto - 11-10-2003 at 08:28 PM

Jimmy: Thanks for your Post and Info. I will take your word that these folks know what thet are doing and as you follow the Mexicano Custom of Speaking for them I will await their report.
In my Heart I would prefer that they leave it alone and let the People Amimals, and birds alone. It is so Isolated and beautiful. Thanks Skeet/Loreto

Respect

Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 11:36 PM

Jimmy, I as well respect what you have to say. If you have confidence in what these guys are doing then I am probably wrong in the way I think about this.
I will not say another negative word about what they are doing. In fact, if all goes well, I may be seeing them in about a week. Hope to stop by your place as well. Bamboo, remember ?

jimmy smith - 11-11-2003 at 07:38 PM

MY movement has been somewhat restricted since our hurricanes and I havn't looked at the bamboo recently. It always seems to survive.

Restricted movements

Ski Baja - 11-11-2003 at 08:22 PM

Don Jimmy, I and many others are aware of your recent setbacks. The key is, you are you and back sharing your life, stories and philosophies with us! Thank you for being so generous !
As far as bamboo goes, soon as your feeling better, I would like to show you a patch. I think the people growing it may be friends of yours!

Skeet/Loreto - 11-12-2003 at 09:52 AM

Jide. Will you and the rest of your Group please go on this board and list your Qualifications. I am sure that you realize that there are a number of members on this Board that have a True love for this Last Great Mountain and its Privacy. Thank you Skeet/Loreto

Skeet/Loreto - 11-12-2003 at 10:01 AM

Mr. Pebley: Thank you for your reassurance and Post.
Sir will you please post on this Board your basic Qualifications for this undertaking?
Living in and around that Mountaian since 1968 I have developed a fondness for its unique features and all of its Habitat.
I am very much a Conservationist. I respect the Mountain as well as the Sea.
I would hope that if you do not desire to share with me that you will with Jimmy as his word is his Bond.!
Thank You Skeet/Loreto

Skeet/Loreto - 11-12-2003 at 10:15 AM

Doug: Is there any way that you could Post the the daily reports being posted on by the San Diego Reporter concerning their Expedition?
From what I am seeing it appears to be a well founded Trip with Lots of Creditable Information.Thanks Skeet/Loreto

elgatoloco - 11-12-2003 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Mr. Pebley: Thank you for your reassurance and Post.
Sir will you please post on this Board your basic Qualifications for this undertaking?
Living in and around that Mountaian since 1968 I have developed a fondness for its unique features and all of its Habitat.
I am very much a Conservationist. I respect the Mountain as well as the Sea.
I would hope that if you do not desire to share with me that you will with Jimmy as his word is his Bond.!
Thank You Skeet/Loreto



Skeet, I am not undertaking anything. I appreciate and envy your vast knowledge and experiences in and around Baja and I enjoy reading your posts regarding same. You are truly blessed to have been able to live, experience and contribute to a place as beautiful and unique as Baja California, especially the area of Loreto.

Too be able to save something it helps to know what it is. This expedition is designed to do that. That is why I think it is a good thing. Not all science is perfect. This area and its unique beauty, as you have been able to see firsthand, should be preserved. As stated it is threatened by mining, agave fields, cattle grazing, etc. These people are there because they were invited. Learning about the great diversity of flora & fauna of this area will only be a positive thing. Let us not forget that it was science, along with many people on both sides of the border that kept a salt factory out of the gray whale nurseries of San Ignacio Lagoon. Ideally this area would be left untouched and intact, but in this day and age, I think it better to document what is there now so that it hopefully can be protected.
Knowledge is power!!
I hope some day we can sit together and discuss the place we both love, Baja.

Saludos Skeet,

Mr. Pebley aka elgatoloco

Click here for daily updates and photos of the expedition

http://www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/index.html

Skeet/Loreto - 11-12-2003 at 02:43 PM

Thank your Sir! You are a gentleman and Scholar I see!!
I hope that the group will leave it as they found it as I have in the past 35 years.
You and your amigos are experiencing a very unique Place which I think you know and realize.
It is so vast and isolated that it will be after my time before many people are able to enjoy its beauty.
I appreciate you info and Thank you for the website report.Skeet/Loreto

Do you think that it will be possoble to also protect the Coast Line and Sea along that Area?
If people want to really see what the Sea Of Cortez is like thaey should spend time in the Mountains and the Coast. Skeet/Loreto

Respect

Mike Humfreville - 11-12-2003 at 04:27 PM

Hi Folks,

I haven?t posted on this thread but I read every word more than once and I think a lot of good folks are being influenced by a couple of negative posts that set the stage for argument and condescension. While I have no right to form an opinion other than common sense and experience why, WHY? would anyone assume a formal scientific Bi-national study could be BAD??? As already asked by EGL and others, how could knowledge in the hands of politically disinterested, non-influential and highly educated people hurt anything?

While I have no claim to education, I do work with thousands of gentle folk at JPL/NASA. Scientists and engineers, as many of us know, are very biased toward their academic specifics but generally unbiased in politics and they tend to be environmentally aware and concerned for our long range future.

To make the asinine assumption that these interested scientists were entering the unique arena under study to cause harm is not only ignorantly disrespectful but serves to self-promote a life style that an individual has chosen for his/her own reasons, tries to fit and finds that disrespect of others is a last defense. While we as Americans, as lifeforms, human or otherwise have a long way to go toward perfection, the intentions of most acts of our citizens are generally well intended.

I think the value and intent of this thread, and others as well, have been dragged through the mud when there was no reason to do that.

When we read back across the many threads of bajanomad it?s easy to see through the smoke and find the junk mail and trash, to remember the posting names of those who are always ready to ?thumbs down? anything American. It?s just as easy to spot those of us who do it because it is self-promotional. And it?s easy to see through to those who do it because they believe.

If we truly want to have some influence in life, don?t we have to start by gaining the respect of our peers???

If we don?t have that, some of us should just learn when to tone it down a tad.

With respect for all,

Mike

Because of past records.

Ski Baja - 11-12-2003 at 05:04 PM

""Americans, as a rule, tend to go into somewhere they don't belong, perhaps even with good intentions in the beginning and turn it into something different than it was. And generally, unless you consider developing the entire planet good and charging 3 to 10 times more for something than it is worth, it turns to "caca". (put that one in myself!) . And then they bail.""
This is what that was all about. But, if Don Jimmy thinks it's a good thing and he knows these people, I am done saying negative things about it.
Those of us who know the area a little bit, don't particularly want it turned into a place for Viva and BBBB parties like Bahia de los Angeles has.

Mike H......

jeans - 11-12-2003 at 06:18 PM

Right on! My sentiments exactly! Thanks for spelling it out.

Ski Baja....FYI.... To set the record straight, there has never been a Viva Baja party in Baja, nor has there been a BBBB party in Bahia De Los Angeles.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by jeans]

Getting the point

Ski Baja - 11-12-2003 at 07:34 PM

If yall don't agree with what I am saying and think that I have no basis for my comments, perhaps those weren't Budweiser cans after all that I was picking up somewhere far far away where they have no business being.
And as far as your parties go, whatever. I tried to end this disagreement when someone who actually has lived in Mexico and knows of what he speaks stated his opinion. Which I respect.
If you girlz want to turn it into another chicken coop thread as many of the others seem to do here, cackle away.

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Ski Baja]

jimmy smith - 11-12-2003 at 07:45 PM

Well, like the Meskins say: All roosters crow loud in their own henhouse.
Good job Mike H. wish I'd said that

Skeet/Loreto - 11-12-2003 at 07:50 PM

Mike H. Very True and Very well said!
I was one of the first to jump on this Expedition as it is in an Area which is close to my Heart.Mike It is and Awesome Place of Privacy and isolation.
After Jimmy Smith "Spoke for the people ".
I backed off . To give you and Idea of my initial reaction ,In the past few months I have been listening to NPR. I am appalled at the Political Leftist ideas being spouted on a Public Radio!!
I am building a Wildlife Pond on my place whereby I went into the Wildlife Conservation Office. They handed me 7 sheets of rules and regs. which included if my horse Pooped in the water I could be fined as it "MIght" damage a fish that I had planted and Grown. so I chose not to take their Help.
Another case I have a friend who worled his Brass off to own 43 Acres of property so that he would have a retirement and would not have to depend on Welfare, Well Lo and Behold he went to sell his property buy could not as on a small Corner there lived a "Giant Garter Snake"
No developedment,so there he sets with nothing!
Both cases as a result of Scientist who decided something far less than Common Sense or fairness or reality.

Mike it is those kind of bad decisions that are causing some of us to hesitate and question a Project when socalled Scientist work is taken and skewed to fit a Political Agenda.

I am willing to await the report and from the the first pictures it appears these people will do a good job. Let us hope that some of the Spin Doctors do not take it for a Political story!
Mike. This is just the opposite of BOLA. There are very few people and such beauty there it will take a number of years for any one to have much of a chance to spoil that Beauty.
I will accepy the blame as I have been pushing the area from Loreto South to La Paz as unspoiled. I would detest if there were signs put up" No Trespassing} like happened on parts of Carmen Island.
God Bless you and youns!
Skeet/Loreto

Well, Jimmy

Ski Baja - 11-12-2003 at 07:57 PM

if that isn't getting put in my place, I don't know what is ! hahahahaha:lol:

jimmy smith - 11-12-2003 at 08:08 PM

Cada gallo canta en su propio gallenera.

Skeet and Jimmy and jeans and egl and...

Mike Humfreville - 11-13-2003 at 01:58 AM

I have no doubt that our hearts stand in the right place. You have all my respect.

Mike

[Edited on 11-13-2003 by Mike Humfreville]

dono - 11-13-2003 at 08:20 AM

Mike right on, i couldn't agree more.

Anonymous - 11-13-2003 at 11:13 AM

"During my early days of exploring the desert, I found that the public can be induced to respect such backcountry areas as Baja -- not by rules and regimentation, but by education. And the education begins by making its history exciting and adventurous. When someone goes looking for a lost treasure, for instance, they are forced to thoroughly research the area. They aren't just spinning wheels over meaningless, empty land. With knowledge, comes respect. "

- Choral Pepper

David K - 11-13-2003 at 05:33 PM

That is indeed a Choral Pepper quote and an excellent one at that. There may not be any 'lost missions' left to find in Baja... But, the chance that there is something out there, many hundreds of years old, is enough to excite many of us... to get us to venture outdoors and make history and exciting adventure! Baja is full of history... and thus full of adventure! See Chroal Pepper: http://community-2.webtv.net/DrDrip/pepper

Flash Cards

Ski Baja - 11-13-2003 at 09:42 PM

""Americans, as a rule, tend to go into somewhere they don't belong, perhaps even with good intentions in the beginning and turn it into something different than it was. And generally, unless you consider developing the entire planet good and charging 3 to 10 times more for something than it is worth, it turns to "caca". (put that one in myself!) . And then they bail.""
AND THEN THEY BAIL !

bajalera - 11-15-2003 at 01:25 PM

A pity that list of scientists doesn't include Dr. Eric Ritter, who has been working in the Giganta area for years, which archaeologically gives him squatter's rights. Whoever planned this expedition was obviously unaware that when it comes to territoriality, archaeologists are right up there with mockingbirds and soccer goalies.

[Edited on 11-15-2003 by bajalera]

[Edited on 11-15-2003 by bajalera]

Dr. Ritter

Ski Baja - 11-15-2003 at 01:38 PM

Does he have a website and does he live down there ? I may have some info. he might be interested in depending on what his intentions are.

Same old chit here.Let a few bash el norte.

FrankO - 11-15-2003 at 06:40 PM

Educamate me.
First question: Isn't this entire hemisphere comprised of Americans?
I am glad some people with education, rather than idiots who are escaping from who knows what, are seeking knowledge.
People forget about the Spaniards who came and "converted" the indiginous folks in this part of the world.
All due respect, to those that deserve it, I'll end this with: " the more I drink, the more narrow minded some seem(and seem to lose thier ability to spell)."
Frank

Gracias Don Jimmy

Sallysouth - 11-15-2003 at 09:01 PM

I think thats all that needs to be said here. I have kept silent, reasons obvious! When my son in law started a "Big Horn Sheep Hunt" I wanted to hunt him myself!After much anger and questions, I discovered that the were "culling" which is taking only the very old an/or sick from the herds. I always thought that was done by nature. I have to say I'm still not sure,but the locals that live in the Gigantas and live on what they can, agree that if the Bighorn Sheep can survive and be"culled" and they get paid for their hard earned ,mountain climbing,extremely life challenging experiences, and in the process keep the stong sheep protected and alive,Then they won't have the need to kill whatever sheep comes in to shooting sight?I'm not promoting anything but just thinking about this.I am not too sure I should post this but ,here it is. Maybe It will get "deleted"?

Gracias Don Jimmy

Sallysouth - 11-15-2003 at 09:02 PM

I think thats all that needs to be said here. I have kept silent, reasons obvious! When my son in law started a "Big Horn Sheep Hunt" I wanted to hunt him myself!After much anger and questions, I discovered that the were "culling" which is taking only the very old an/or sick from the herds. I always thought that was done by nature. I have to say I'm still not sure,but the locals that live in the Gigantas and live on what they can, agree that if the Bighorn Sheep can survive and be"culled" and they get paid for their hard earned ,mountain climbing,extremely life challenging experiences, and in the process keep the stong sheep protected and alive,Then they won't have the need to kill whatever sheep comes in to shooting sight?I'm not promoting anything but just thinking about this.I am not too sure I should post this but ,here it is. Maybe It will get "deleted"?

Ah, name calling.

Ski Baja - 11-15-2003 at 09:03 PM

I don't think anyone has forgotten about the Spaniards. At least not the families that are descended from them. These are the same ones that are "questioning" the american and "beaurocratic" style of "progress".
Which is what they were actually getting away from originally when they stayed here.
Perhaps if we lived to be older, healthier and sang on our everyday walks, our ways would be a little more enticing for them.
Until then, I wouldn't call anybody in the mountains of Baja an "american".