BajaNomad - Tembabiche for sale!

Tembabiche for sale!

flyfishinPam - 8-19-2006 at 06:54 AM

I just noticed a couple of days ago on the back of one of Javier Pineda's vehicles that Tembabiche is for sale. 3,000 hectarias.

While I believe the ejidos that own their lands have every right to sell, I just wonder if the people will get what the property is really worth. Or will they get the shaft as the developers and real estate folks get most of it. Then what happens to the people after they get the big payoff?

In my experience I've seen folks sell their land and blow the loot as fast as they can. My husbands ex-wife sold their house that she won in the divorce and blew 20,000 dollars in less than two months! Now she has no home. Other examples are local colonia Zaragoza folks who sold a strip of beach. The ejido split all the money and the local electronics store sold all their plasma TV's and lots of new cars seen being driven. So what would it be like to have a plasma TV and a new Dodge Ram living in a tarpaper shack? Once they sell the last parcel of land they have they must relocate. Without job skills or education I'd imagine that's pretty tough to pull off.

Its heartbreaking to watch this.

Bruce R Leech - 8-19-2006 at 07:12 AM

Pam All of your observations hold true here in Mulege also.

jerry - 8-19-2006 at 07:24 AM

pam could you please inlighten me ? where is Tembabiche located from loteto?? thanks

Diver - 8-19-2006 at 07:43 AM

I must be missing something ?

Do you think that if they were paid $50,000 or $100,000 that they wouldn't spend it just as stupidly !?

It's not the price, it's the mentality.

Ask the ex-wife some questions;
1. Did she consider what she would do after she sold her home, before she signed the papers ?
2. If the amount was too low to buy another home, why did she sell ?
3. Why didn't she take the money and buy another home ??

.

Bob and Susan - 8-19-2006 at 08:02 AM

let's do some math.....

3000 hectares = 7400 acres

at $1000 an acre that's 7.4 Million dollars...

i think i would sell....

rob - 8-19-2006 at 08:23 AM

For years I looked at my (first edition) Baja Almanac, which showed no road to Timbabiche, and dreamed of going there. Finally rented a panga at San Cosme (on road to Agua Verde) and was driven down in style. There was a fascinating old two-story mansion there (very un-Baja like).

I have since driven there from Ciudad Constitution - lovely place. I had always thought it was a private ranch, not ejido land.

We have neighboring ejidos here at the ranch with large tracts of beachfront - no power or water. The lots are selling for a fraction of what they would be worth serviced, with no takers. The ejido has tons of water 6 km away, and power less than 3 km, but there is no possibiity of their ejido management ever getting anything together to enhance the communal value of the property.

I have no answers.

Don Alley - 8-19-2006 at 08:43 AM

Some sold too soon. Some of the waterfront lots north of town were sold for as little as $7,000. And the price does make a difference to the community. Even if the money is spent, much is spent locally to the benefit of others. But if property is sold too cheaply, the eventual big profits will go to foreign investors.

Hard to say how much of the money is being squandered. Lots of new cars and trucks around, but there seems to be a lot of money being spent in town in improvements and additions to homes and businesses, adding equity in a potentially very profitable real estate market.

But as ejido lands are developed, eventually huge amounts of money will be generated in foreign accounts; what ejido members are currently receiving is the real estate equivilent of changing the sheets and driving the taxis.

TMW - 8-19-2006 at 08:47 AM

Jerry it's east of Ciudad Constitution on the coast.

jerry - 8-19-2006 at 09:39 AM

thanks so its allso south of agua verde on the soc?

Remember the "House on the Beach for Sale"

bajajudy - 8-19-2006 at 12:03 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=17979#pid1552...

Pam------

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 12:38 PM

----I am with Diver-----------I fail to see the problem------looks to me like they went into the deal with eyes wide open, and they decided to spend all the money. It is not wise in my opinion, but still, it WAS their decision.

I don't understand what is "heartbreaking"?

I am constantly amazed at what people decide to do with "windfall" money, but they do it anyway, and never consult with me. I just figure that they know what they want, and to hell with the future. Not sad, just human nature, I guess.

jerry - 8-19-2006 at 01:35 PM

the same thing happens here in theusa only difference here is they dont have a wellfare program to go back to
the real heart break is i cant afford to buy it :lol:

tim40 - 8-19-2006 at 01:47 PM

Pam: do you know what they are/were asking for the land?

Change creates opportunity....and some consider opportunity as always a good thing.....not always the case.

jerry---------You are soooooooo right.

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 01:48 PM

--------all the Nomads ought too pool their money and pick this outstanding property up----------make it an official "NOMAD'S" outpost. Other than the access, it has got to be one of the nicest sections of the entire coast, and this particular property is tops, I believe, tho I have never been there.

jerry - 8-19-2006 at 02:10 PM

lets see with bob figures of $7.800,000 we only need 78 nomads with $100,000 to buy it and another $50,000 each for the improvments. waterlines, electric, and the road the rest for the lawers for all the nomads arduing over who gets what lots

:spingrin:

: im in are you?? :tumble:

Jerry-----

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 02:42 PM

I invision one story multi-bungalows with thached roofs all lined up along the bay front, similar to the construction of the Van Warmer's Punta Colorado Hotel. Don't know if we can fit 78 of these puppy's on that beach, but it needs to be researched. Perhaps they can be tiered, with cheaper subscription bungalows behind (same construction), and maybe slightly above (if possible) the bay front ones, the farther back from the beach the cheaper the subscription, but all should be approximately the same size, to avoid petty jealousy between the subscribers---------It all will be controlled by Doug, as the "super Nomad", and a board of responsible Nomad's to advise him, and all matters relating to upkeep/maintenance will be handled by the "Nomad Tembabiche Association", which we all will contribute a fee to maintain.

Anybody wanting out of the program in the future will be bought out by the "Nomad's slush fund" which we will all equally fund, at a price arrived at by Doug and the board----their decision final and unappealable. Discrimination is essential, and NO non-Nomad's will be allowed to buy in, now, or in the future.

If there is a separate bay, out of sight of the bungalows, on this property, then we should consider the construction of a hotel to provide income for the "Nomad's Tembabiche Association", contracting with some reputable Hotel chain to manage and operate this property as a concession. Sole ownership and control of the hotel will rest with the Association. Of course, housing for all the staff must be arranged or provided for.

All this is predicated on the availability of fresh water, of course, and the availability of proper places for the staff housing and related community center/facilities and infrastructure for support, all built in environmentally friendly ways, and in traditional Mexican architecture.

I believe we have a "winner" here. :bounce:

What to you think? :?:

Apparently this guys been down there...

neilmac - 8-19-2006 at 02:44 PM

http://dondavidonbaja.com/

At least, aroung Agua Verde... Is that close?

Neil

Skeet/Loreto - 8-19-2006 at 02:50 PM

My Heart is Broken!! The last Great Place to Escape:

In 1970 I was Southbound in my Trusty little Cessna 170B when an Emergency call came over the Radio. Seems as if two aircraft had been staying a couple of Days at Tambechice, one Aircraft had taken off and was out of contact with the one one the Ground {With a Dead Battery}.
landed and helped get the aircarft Started.
Decide to visit . Fantastic Place with no Roads.
Later years went there several times, and also in from the road out of Constitution.{When I was capturing RattleSnakes, selling their Skins to an Outfit in Texas for $5.00 a Foot Tanned

Please Go before it is taken over, that is the Last Great Place to spend a couple of days and the fishing is Fantastic. From Agua Verde or from the Road End North of La Paz.
I do not know if the Trail from the Top has been fixed for Vehicles or Not.

Be Aware on that Road as it is "The Rattlesnake Capitol of Baja Sur'.

The People of Loreto will Survive!!They are not Trained like the People of the States who spend all their Money going to Vegas, ending up on Welfare or the Streets.

Skeet/Loreto

Skeeter-----it is inevitable

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 02:54 PM

--------so therefore we NOMAD's should be the one's to "make it happen" with sensitivity, loving tenderness, and compassion.

David K - 8-19-2006 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
pam could you please inlighten me ? where is Tembabiche located from loteto?? thanks

This may help... between Agua Verde and Dolores...

Arnold Senterfitt (Airports of Baja) had a photo of the big villa there... which had a cardon cactus growing on the roof!

Skeet/Loreto - 8-19-2006 at 03:27 PM

Yes Barry! and maybe a little bit of Education; Oh! to get in that Panga and head North or South out of Loreto, to see Large Schools of YellowTail, Giant Mantas, Fish Pileups,Birds Diving and Eating,Sharks taking a Giant Dorado in Two Bites, a Wall of SkipJack 2 Feet High coming at you, Porpoise by the Hundreds leading your Panga throught the Water,flipping their Tails and covering you with Water, Whales feeding off of Pt. Lobos!
Diving in the "Bottomless Hole" on the South end of Carmen, taking Giant Clams off of the East side of Carmen, Lobsters running up on the rocks at Night at Catalana , 80lb amberjack at Del Elfonsa, 180 lb Grouper, hammerhead Sharks.

Oh! Those were the Days

Skeet/Loreto

Skeet, you bet-------

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 03:33 PM

--------those were the days that Ray Cannon wrote about, and what got me going to Baja in the first place some 50 years ago. It was heaven, or what I envisioned as heaven.

Oh boy, here we go again!!!!!! :lol:

David-----

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 03:39 PM

-----I have that same Aerial map, and look closely and you will see a "road" down to Timbabichi from Agua Verde.

Just proves that maps are not always accurate, but they sure usually are.

capn.sharky - 8-19-2006 at 04:16 PM

Pam is right. I have seen this happen over and over. Its like the Navajos in Arizona. They used to get (maybe still do) $25,000 when they reached age 21. Bought a new Chevy Truck, got drunk, wrecked the truck and had it towed next to their hogan. On the other hand, if the Ejido keeps the land, under Pres. Fox's administration, I understand they will have to pay tax on it now. The Ejido in Loreto is now run by three wemon---so the money will get to the members of the Ejido. Another problem with money and the Ejidatereos is that they do not trust the Banco.....for good reason. They have lost money in the past using the Bank.....wasn't Bancomer in the past but a different one, if my memory serves me right.

To a Navaho (and many other folks)-------

Barry A. - 8-19-2006 at 04:56 PM

-----their truck is their "steed", and incredibly important to them. I lived and worked with the BlackFeet in Montana for a year (Glacier Natl. Park) and they told me that they got maybe 5 years max. (usually less) out of their trucks because they put from 25 to 45K miles a year on them----------they love to drive. It is incredibly important to them, regardless of what others think. Also, they know there is more money coming from where they got the original money, because of the Casinos.

Life is good on the res, these days, as it should be. :yes:

jerry - 8-19-2006 at 06:39 PM

i been to agua verde a few times ill have to go see this place in jan or feb

David K - 8-19-2006 at 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
-----I have that same Aerial map, and look closely and you will see a "road" down to Timbabichi from Agua Verde.

Just proves that maps are not always accurate, but they sure usually are.

Specially since it is a pilot's map!

Here's a thought (or two)

Dave - 8-19-2006 at 09:33 PM

Why doesn't the Ejido partner with a top-flight development company? They put up the land, the company develops it and they both share equitably in the profits.

Failing that, they should at least hire a reputable appraisal firm so as to get top dollar. There are U.S. certified appraisers who have offices in Mexico.

Diver - 8-19-2006 at 10:06 PM

Maybe no reasonable developers want to chance dealing with an Ejido without holding title to the land themselves before they put in a bunch of money ??

jerry - 8-19-2006 at 10:43 PM

seems the french learned the partnership with mexico at port of escandito was a little lacking?? i surely wouldnt invest in anything with out clear title in my controll

Pickups

Stickers - 8-19-2006 at 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn.sharky
Pam is right. I have seen this happen over and over. Its like the Navajos in Arizona. They used to get (maybe still do) $25,000 when they reached age 21. Bought a new Chevy Truck, got drunk, wrecked the truck and had it towed next to their hogan. On the other hand, if the Ejido keeps the land, under Pres.

"I've seen more of this state's poor.... Indians go broke buyin' pickup trucks. The poor people of this state are dope fiends for pickup trucks. As soon's they get ten cents ahead they trade in on a new pickup truck. The families, homesteads, schools, hospitals and happiness of Montana have been sold down the river to buy pickup trucks!... And there's a sickness here worse than alcohol and dope. It is the pickup truck death! And there's no cure in sight."

Quote from Rancho Delux (music by Jimmy Buffett)

Sharksbaja - 8-20-2006 at 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Maybe no reasonable developers want to chance dealing with an Ejido without holding title to the land themselves before they put in a bunch of money ??

Heck Diver, if the Ejido can conjure up a title that even looks legit, developers will be lined up at the puerto. My guess is that it will eventually be opened up but will take a decade. A place JR knew but would not expose. Hmmmm...... I wonder why?
Oh.... could be that some would like to build 78 palapas there squeezed along the beach. Good lord people, think what yer implying. :no:

Being remote and special and for sale should not inspire over-development by "ours truly". Nomads don't do such things do they?? :lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 8-20-2006 at 03:07 AM

Stickers:
I think that more than "Pickup Trucks" in Montana it was the legalizing of 'Keno Palors and allowing such Nuts as Ted Turner to buy Property and try to Shut off all Fishing on "TenMile Creek".

People are People,! Indians, Mexicanos,Texans, Caliafruties, There are People who beleive that living their own Life as they see Fit, is better than becoming Members of a "Groupie type DOPE" Society.
Talk to some of the "Street People" and they will tell you that they"Like their way of Living, !
I can understand that as I have spent time as a "Hobo" and do recall the Freedom of Hoping a Freight,staying away from the "Bulls".

To each His/Her Own!!

Anon The Preacher

Lencho-------

Barry A. - 8-20-2006 at 08:37 AM

----like Skeeter, I hopped freight trains all the time back when I was a early teenager. It was the best way to go to town from a "summer camp" that my Mom sent me off to that was in the boonies. It was great!!! Of course, she never knew this :lol:

rob - 8-20-2006 at 09:32 AM

So why DON'T ejidos team up with a developer and optimize their land profits?

In my experience, at least in this neighborhood, it's because the ejido leaderships are typically completely inexperienced when it comes to anything beyond local day-to-day business issues. How could it be otherwise?

These are rural people (not every ejido is similar to the Los Cabos ejidos) and life, until relatively recently, was pretty predictable. They are as intelligent as any group I have ever met - but multi-national brokered, financed land negotiations are not part of their experience (or most of ours for that matter).

They, rightly, are totally untrusting of wanna-be Mexican agents, let alone gringo bird dogs. Perhaps Registro Agraria Nacional (RAN - the Dept of Ejido Affairs, kind of) could set up a department to advise ejido on land dispositions.

It's the only shot most ejiditarios will ever have at a capital sum - most will spend it on short-term consumables - it would be great to see them get top dollar for their only shot at wealth.

Packoderm - 8-20-2006 at 10:02 AM

I'd sell only 1/2 of the property if I was them and keep the other half to live on.

jerry - 8-20-2006 at 10:12 AM

pack now that makes long term cents

tim40 - 8-20-2006 at 06:37 PM

So does anyone have more than speculation that it is for sale and if so any specifics?

tim40 - 8-22-2006 at 08:19 PM

Is it safe to conclude, that the sale is no more than rumor?

Bob and Susan - 8-22-2006 at 08:39 PM

it's from flyfishing pam...of Loreto

"I just noticed a couple of days ago on the back of one of Javier Pineda's vehicles that Tembabiche is for sale. 3,000 hectarias."

tim40 - 8-23-2006 at 06:27 PM

Thank you Bob. I was just looking for some details and as so many of our threads go, we go way off topic...not complaining as I have been guilty one or 3 dozen times...

When I asked for details no one chimed in, so knowing that Pam shared the orgin...wondering if others had additional facts.

Don Alley - 8-23-2006 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
it's from flyfishing pam...of Loreto

"I just noticed a couple of days ago on the back of one of Javier Pineda's vehicles that Tembabiche is for sale. 3,000 hectarias."

Well, if Javier Pineda says it's for sale, it must be for sale. :lol: