mulege marv - 9-17-2006 at 05:56 PM
well the clean up is slow but sure, some are walking away. i have another question as far as "the rebuilding on a flood plane"goes. why is the
mangrove not only allowed to consume the river and restrict the water flow, but is protected, not managed, totally protected. it is not an uncommon
site to see a local fisherman dragging his panga through the mud to get it to water deep enough to float it trying to earn a living. now if a river
cant hold 6" of water how much run off would it take to reach flood stage ? i think not much. why not manage the mangrove and dredge the river making
it not only safer, but usable. it not only would help the flooding problem, but in my opinion, would boost the local economy.
bajaden - 9-17-2006 at 06:46 PM
I agree with you one hundred percent Marv. Cut down one of those suckers and they'll hit you with a huge fine and maybe even deport you.. How are you
doing Marv? Did OB John get flooded? I don't think he did with Marty.
mtgoat666 - 9-17-2006 at 07:13 PM
The river will not flood less if you destroy the mangroves -- in most cases, destroying mangroves just leads to erosion of shores or banks.
Mangroves are nurseries for fisheries. Thes are nurseries for fish, and ecosystems for numerous inter-related fish/bird/bugs/etc. Therefore,
protecting mangroves is important to the local fishing economy and tourism economy. Protection of mangroves is important -- in many places in Mexico,
developers blindly destroyed the mangroves, filled the areas, and created sterile shorelines,... admitedly, the sterile shorelines were great for
floating on a raft and siping a mai-tai, but the fisheries were harmed, leading to poor sportfishing, poor food fisheries, loss of wildlife, etc.
It would be wiser to encourage rebuilding in areas outside of flood plains and away from shorelines.
bill erhardt - 9-17-2006 at 07:18 PM
I don't know how his house fared, but apparently OB John was doing rescue duty the next morning. I talked to Ken and Chris who own the Cuesta Real
and whose house is between the river and the motel. They were driven up onto their roof during the night by the rising waters and remained there
hoping their house qould hold through the night until the next morning at 9:30 when OB John retrieved them in his boat.
toneart - 9-17-2006 at 10:12 PM
I was wondering the same thing this morning, Marv. One would think that dredging out the river would create a watercourse that would hold more volume
before overflowing. Not sure about the mangroves. They are a part of the natural ecology and there are probably more reasons to leave them than to cut
them out. They would probably grow back if cut. Even though fish live there, they are not edible because the river is so poluted. However, dredging
would help the local fishing economy by making it easier for them to navagate to deeper, cleaner waters in the Sea of Cortez.
FARASHA - 9-18-2006 at 12:31 AM
The Mangrooves are also filtering the water, which can't take place by removing them, AND when the flow is faster that can't take place either, so the
Pollution would INCREASE in the River and SOC.
The ECO-System (Wildlife) would change dramatically therefore.
And I think that the Mangrooves are part of the charme of the specific spot of Mulege. Thats MHO.
maybe you you didnt read it right
mulege marv - 9-18-2006 at 04:53 AM
i did not suggest destroying the mangroves, and i knew i would hear the eco thing. i suggested a vegitation managment program to control them. i
understand they serv a purpose and are important. but if not managed they will eventually take over the river and rio mulege will become just a marsh
(which it almost was before the flood), until another flood, that will thin them out, along with everything else. and as far as filtering the water, i
believe a water treatment system would probably be more effective. just a thought, but i also know this is mexico and thats why im here
manage mangroves
manage depth = less flooding + usable waterway
just my opinion
[Edited on 9-18-2006 by mulege marv]
[Edited on 9-18-2006 by mulege marv]
FARASHA - 9-18-2006 at 05:34 AM
Did'nt mean that there shouldn't be done ANYTHING, just worried if not done properly, and by experts - then it might worsen the situation, etc....
Managing can be understood in many ways.
Had to see here ( Austria) around, WHAT degrading of rivers can do - believe me, we had afterwards more troubles then before on some places.
Nevermind, I'm not a treehugger as such, but as a diver I'm of course concerned about water AND environment. And Fishery and all that comes with it.
No offense taken, marv 
[Edited on 18-9-2006 by FARASHA]
mtgoat666 - 9-18-2006 at 06:30 AM
I doubt that the mangroves are "damming" the river to an appreciable amount. The mangroves probably do hold the bank and prevent it from eroding.
People the world over would be smarter to not build in flood plains, and after floods not rebuild in flood plains.
Don't blame the natural vegetation in the flood zone -- encourage people to not rebuild in the flood zone.
Cypress - 9-18-2006 at 07:10 AM
Imagine the river is at sea level, dredging it would deepen the channel, but not lower the water level. Too much rain and a major flood event would
still take place with or without the channel or mangroves. It would probably drain off quicker. Might leave behind less silt.
huh !
mulege marv - 9-18-2006 at 09:30 AM
they do help the banks from eroding, but im not refering to the mangroves along the banks, im refering to the ones in the middle of the river that
have held the silt and have now formed large islands. do you think large islands might have a damming effect on the river ? 
and i wasnt blaming the natural vegitation on the flood, just looking for solutions to lessen the devistation. why is there a dept. of water resourses
in the states ? levees, bypasses, dams should all be done away with ? seems those were all solutions to flooding . last time i was there, there were
alot of waterfront homes in the states ? or am i wrong again ?
ah never mind, do nothing, dont build on a flood plane, move the city of new orleans, evacuate florida , move everyone to were the people are smarter
!
sorry
mulege marv - 9-18-2006 at 09:39 AM
people here are sifting through the mud trying to save what little they have left. and for some suggest we are "not smart" for living here, made me
tight in the jaws !
Cypress - 9-18-2006 at 09:39 AM
You can build on a flood plane! Build on pilings that are higher than the flood levels. The pilings need to be strong enough to withstand the impact
of water, debris. etc. Have friends that lived for years in houses on stilts. Came and went by boat for weeks at a time. When the flood subsided they
reurned to life as normal. No loss of property. No damage.It's doable.
FARASHA - 9-18-2006 at 09:44 AM
To move all people that would be really over the top.
I think no one has to move to anywhere - and maybe experts should know a better answer then we all together here.
This is just tossing ideas and exchanging experience, picking each others brains. AND MOST OF ALL. Venting our concerns, to prevent any losses next
time. WE HAVE BEEN WORRIED and now we want you all safe next time. RIGHT? 
jerry - 9-18-2006 at 10:06 AM
dont need rocket science just a civil engineer build
a big cam up stream
it would help the flooding and provide water for the town
the fresh water running into the rio might help keep it clean
jerry - 9-18-2006 at 10:08 AM
that a---------- dam------------ not a cam lol im neather a rocket scientist or a civil engineer
im done
mulege marv - 9-18-2006 at 10:09 AM
good bye !
this is a good forum for people who dont live here.
it offers a lot of advise to people planning to visit
or "newbies" as they are called on here.
now i cant speak for everyone else, but the last thing i need
is advise from someone who is not here and hasnt seen it.
ideas are good, opinions that are insulting are not. and i might just be thin skinned right now (huh, wonder why ?)but i am done here, thanks,
have fun yall ! i plan too !
mulege marv is taking his toys and STAYING home !
Cypress - 9-18-2006 at 10:28 AM
Marv! Don't leave mad. Wasn't my intention to belittle or insult. Have walked away from one disaster with only the clothes on my back and have
survived more hurricanes than I can remember. Believe me. I fully understand your feelings, would probably feel the same if I were there. It'll all
work out. You've just got to take it one day at a time. Good luck. Know it's not easy.
cat127 - 9-18-2006 at 10:39 AM
Marv -
Please stay! I have watched your posts and most everytime they have given me more insight into what we are stepping into. I can totally understand if
you dont have the time !! right now to explain simple ideas to us newbies.... but come back when you do, Please!
-Cat
Cypress - 9-18-2006 at 01:00 PM
Lencho has the right idea!!
capt. mike - 9-19-2006 at 08:52 AM
marv, yur damn smarter than a lot of the knuckleheads hanging here, board wise.
consider the sources - and yeah, those who live there in moo la hey know the real skinny.
see you in a couple of weeks dude!
Diver - 9-19-2006 at 09:41 AM
Many good ideas....
1. Stilt-built homes which are an option in some locations would not work in Mulege unless you wanted your home perched 14 feet above the ground.
2. Flow-through foundations are do-able but you still lose everythiing inside and incurr some amount of damage; not the best alternative.
3. Being a civil engineer, I like the idea of a damn or overflow canal but have no idea of the workability of such a plan in Mulege. I also don;t have
the $ to build either.
4. Mangroves are good. That's what they taught us, eh ? In general this is tru as they help stabilize the shore and filter polutants from the nursery
areas which develope around their root structures.
5. The mangrove abundance in Mulege is likely caused or increased, to some extent, by the actions of man. Increased levels of organic polutants and
runoff can affect mangrove growth.
6. Siltation of the river could also have been increased by local construction acitvities, increased pervious-area runoff and other actions well above
the "town" area such as mountain road cuts.
7. Moving everyone above the flood plain ? ? ? Probably not.
Mulege is their home, they must remain as long as there is hope. Mulege will rebuild because it is a great place.
8. Dredging the centerline of the rio and removing constrictions to the river flow would definitley increase the flow capacity. Leaving mangroves
along the banks would help stabilize the chanel.
Short of a dam or diversion chanel, I would have to agree with centerline dredging as a method to maintain the existing chanel.
In time, nature may act to block the existing river with mangroves and eventually to silt-in, forcing the river to chose another path to the sea. As
humans, we have the power to maintain some features such as this, if we so chose. Are we meddling ?? Is it meddling to consume oxygen from our air or
to create poluting gases from all manner of travel ? Well, here we go...... or not. Just dredge the dang thing as it's the best thing for the town !
Remembering, of course, that another flood such as this would still undoubtedly top the banks of the river even with a freshly dredged canal, but the
damage should be much less.
.