BajaNomad

Active volcano in area of Asuncion

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Stickers - 11-26-2006 at 12:16 PM

There seems to be two known volcanos in central Baja and this one seem to be considered active. Sure would be a funny coincidence if it blew the night Jesse opened his restaurant.

Volcan de las Tres Virgenes (the volcano of the 3 virgins) is a volcano in a strange place for volcanoes. Early missionary reports contain a reference to an eruption in 1746 that was not actually witnessed. Volcan de las Tres Virgenes is the only historically active volcano on the Baja peninsula, and may have developed on a "leaky" transform fault rather than due to subduction. Presently Tres Virgenes is the site of geothermal development.

Map of Mexican volcanos

Stickers - 11-26-2006 at 12:19 PM

http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_tour/mex/mex.html

Photo of volcano

Stickers - 11-26-2006 at 12:48 PM

http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/north_america/mexi...

shari - 11-26-2006 at 05:11 PM

so where's the other one, it feels like it's right underneath us right now as I speak it is trembling, I just came inside to report this but it's nerve racking having to run outside every few seconds/minutes. Everyone is very frightened and lots of houses have cracked particularly the corners, we have several cracks too.. hope it calms down soon, I'm dizzy and nervous out here on the rock. It has shook 9 times in the last hour. Tomorrow a team is coming from La Paz with some intruments to see what the heck is going on.

jerry - 11-26-2006 at 05:27 PM

your there you can make up your own mind but relying on LaPaz?? im my experence you will get information about next juevember
perhaps its time for a( tsumia warning drill) practice run out of harms way??

shari - 11-26-2006 at 06:21 PM

thanks, I'm back in the house now as it hadn't rumbled for a half hour...ohhhhh no not again...just when I thought it was calming down. A fellow on a sailboat said it was better when there are lots of little ones to avoid the big one....I don't know what the heck to believe. That will be the 13th one in the last hour and a bit. People have now reported lots of things falling off walls and cracking houses. Pretty darn exciting but I hope it doesn't get anymore exciting. I'm gonna make myself a margerita to calm my nerves.

Russ - 11-26-2006 at 06:24 PM

The Margerita, stirred not shaken!

Russ - 11-26-2006 at 06:25 PM

OOPS, that's a martooni

Stickers - 11-26-2006 at 06:27 PM

Shari, the small scale map shows the (historically) active volcano near the gulf side of Baja directly east of Asuncion (maybe 150 miles).


We in Southern California are very experienced with earthquakes but what you are describing seems different. Our quakes are usually slight pre shocks (if any) with the main event soon after and then slowly diminishing aftershocks.
Volcanic activity is obviously different but ground shaking is part of it. The large noise heard suggests an onshore as opposed to an in the ocean blast. If you have any high ground to drive to you can look for a smoke plume for evidence.

If there has not been ground shaking in Guerrero Negro, Viscaino,Tortugas or Abreojos then you are near the center of the activity and maybe a visit to Pa Paz to check out Jesse's new restaurant would be in order. Or a visit to the relatives in Guerrero Negro.

[Edited on 11-27-2006 by Stickers]

[Edited on 11-27-2006 by Stickers]

shari - 11-26-2006 at 06:30 PM

I saw a smoke plume out my window llike it was coming out of the rocks here at the blowhole when the biggest one was happening (5 seconds of booming and shaking)....definate gray color, not spray or dust...hmmmm

Shari-----

Barry A. - 11-26-2006 at 06:33 PM

at the risk of being somewhat of an alarmist, what you describe sounds VERY much like "volcanic activity"----sub-surface magma on the move. I am amazed that the "experts" are not swarming all over your area since this has been going on for several days----right???

Obviously SOMETHING BIG is going on. Nothing may come of it------like the Mammoth Mt. area in CA several years ago, but still I can imagine your nervousness. Sounds like you ARE taking precautions, but stay alert (as if I have to say that) :wow:

Stickers - 11-26-2006 at 06:36 PM

Shari, I will call the Southwest Volcano Center in Arizona and the U.S Coast and Geodetic Survey office tomorrow to see if they have any knowledge about, interest in, or advice about what is occurring..

JESSE - 11-26-2006 at 07:18 PM

So two 3 virgenes became active the same day? that would be great;D

Iflyfish - 11-26-2006 at 07:20 PM

Shari wrote:

"I saw a smoke plume out my window llike it was coming out of the rocks here at the blowhole when the biggest one was happening (5 seconds of booming and shaking)....definate gray color, not spray or dust...hmmmm "

"
That will be the 13th one in the last hour and a bit." "It has shook 9 times in the last hour."

"Tomorrow a team is coming from La Paz with some intruments to see what the heck is going on."



My advice to you is to LEAVE NOW. Let experts sort this out. Three were blown away when St Helens went off. Return when you know what htey find. Better to err on the side of safety and later reflect on how dumb you were than to be blown away. I am worried about you and Serana there.

What you are witnessing sounds like a vent opening. This is the sort of thing that you see with volcanic activity. This is the sort of volcanic activity like that which preceded Mt. St Helens exploding. Ongoing earthquakes and then vents opening. Gas and grey ash came out of the mountain. Then it really blew and took fifty some people whith it. Not something to fool with. I met the crews who came down from the mountain, rescue folks. Ice cubes the size of thirty foot trailers blew out of the mountain. Pyroclastic fow burned everything in it's wake for scores of miles.

I would take what you have seen and hears as a warning. If you have a safe place to go, this is a good time to do so. The forces of Volcanoes are far greater than one could ever imagine. I flew over Mt St Helens after it blew and still cannot forget the MILES of destruction. Now on the other hand a volcano erupted and has been erupting on an ongoing basis for years with out a violent explosion.

I would not take the risk of staying myself. If I were there I would go NOW. Too much to lose and not much to gain by staying. You don't have enough information about what is happening, but sighting a vent opening would do it for me. I would want to hear from the researchers that it is safe to return before doing so.

I don't like giving this advice. But it is what I would be saying to my daughter if she was there.

Iflyfish

DianaT - 11-26-2006 at 08:11 PM

A plume of smoke? Sure wish you and your family would follow the advice of Iflyfish.

It may turn-out to be nothing of concern, but.............

Take Care
Diane

jerry - 11-26-2006 at 08:31 PM

a plumb?? sounds like venting, if its venting that means its leting off pressure this action can cause expansion of gassess and valcanic action below and can cause hugh actions on the surface visualise a pressure cooker boiling is held back by the pressure as the pressure is reliesed boiling resumes and expands rapidly GET OUT OF THERE NOW i hope im all wrong but i wish for you to tell me in a few day

Paula - 11-26-2006 at 09:06 PM

Wow, Shari! Better safe than sorry. I try not to give my opinion on things I don't know much about, but I want to keep reading your posts here, and Serena's too. We don't want to lose you!

Diver - 11-26-2006 at 09:21 PM

Seems that all the research on the Tres Virgines has been done closer to Santa Rosalia and San Ignacio. There is an east/west axis that shows predominant activity along the volcanoe's southwest flank. No research was done farther west towards the coast. If this is volcanic, it will be a relative surprise to many that the complex vents that far to the west.

.

4baja - 11-27-2006 at 07:08 AM

sheri, we too had a quake last year here on the sea of cortez (6.4 i beleive) and it allmost through me out of my bed. we had three more over the next 24 hours and i was more concerned with wave activity then damaged to my small casita. last time i was in your area i fished the hipolito area and caught all the halibut i wanted from shore ,may do a quad trip through there in the next comeing year.:coolup:

Bruce R Leech - 11-27-2006 at 07:24 AM

If I were seeing and hearing what you describe I would have my family out of there. how long are you going to wait? until you see lava flowing toward your house? if so don't usually there is a big explosion first and from then on you wont be able to see what is going on. I would not wait for some kids with a Mexican paper to tell me that it is not safe. just like the people in Mulege you are responsible to get your family to safety. mother nature has warned you.:no:

Interesting

Taco de Baja - 11-27-2006 at 08:42 AM

Interesting that the USGS does not report ANY activity in the area over the last week....
Maybe no sensors in the area???? But, then again they should be able to sense even small earthquakes from seismographs even 100's of miles away.





David K - 11-27-2006 at 08:52 AM

Yes... but she said it is not even felt in Tortugas... so very localized. However cracking concrete is significant!

DianaT - 11-27-2006 at 08:54 AM

Wish Shari would post this morning---just want to know everyone is OK. It does sound like very strange happenings.

Diane

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2006 at 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Interesting that the USGS does not report ANY activity in the area over the last week....
Maybe no sensors in the area???? But, then again they should be able to sense even small earthquakes from seismographs even 100's of miles away.


The earthqualke maps are very detailed if you live in CA, NV OR and WA -- and in these locales will show quakes of 1 or 2 magnitude. But the maps you find on the web for Mexico rarely show any quakes under 3 magnitude. So. if you have a landslide or low-level volcanic activity shaking things in Ascunsion, you probbably won't see it on the web maps of quakes.

BTW, the majority of Baja has tranform and extensional structures, and it is not surprising to see volcanic activity anywhere in the penninsula. Only place it is less likely to be seen is in the batholith area in the north.

Taco de Baja - 11-27-2006 at 09:22 AM

There are some seismographs on the summit.

At least as reported by some guys who climbed the peak in 2000. Makes for a good trip report, if you have the time to read the whole log :)


Quote:
The Reforma 2000 Expedition will be carried out in two trips–one in January, and one in May to Baja California, Mexico. The goal of the January trip was to visit as many destinations as possible and lay the groundwork for research in May, when more detailed scientific fieldwork will be completed. In the end, the team hopes to gain a better understanding of the volcanic hazards and approximate ages of these significant volcanoes. The expedition is funded by the National Geographic Society’s Committee for Research and Exploration.



.....A couple of hours later, as the sun was setting over the Pacific Ocean, Keith, Brian and I scrambled to the summit and set up camp amidst the palmetto trees. An aluminum cross with a bust of Jesus Christ, with an inscription for the miners of Santa Rosalia marked the summit shelf, a flat area 3 meters by 3 meters. On the summit, and a nearby peak, broadcast towers transmitting seismic information stood 10 meters high. When we’d walk by, an electronic noise would transmit data to a computer somewhere on the globe--probably at the University of Mexico......


link

shari - 11-27-2006 at 09:48 AM

buenos dias todos...well we are still here and posting although we just had the first quake of the morning...Sirena is safe in Guerrero Negro and even though I thought it was funny a few days ago, we slept in the car last night with all the emergency gear including life jackets. The scientists are due to arrive any minute and we have been informed that the ephicentre??? is here at the point so I want to show them where I saw smoke or steam escaping from the cliff yesterday during the biggest one. Most of the village evacuated and others slept in tents and cars, some on the baseball field out of town. On the radio just now it claims it is movement of a plate 150 miles offshore by Abreojos??? They said there are NO sites with equipment to register anything near here which is why nothing shows up on the sites. I guess we will find out today just where this nasty thing is coming from. But I'm ready to jump in the car and go but want to talk to the specialists too. Our house has lots of cracks now in all the rooms. There were more than 30 quakes from 4:00 yesterday till now....whew....so I'm not sure how long I'll be here folks but just wanted to post this to all ;those wondering what's up....basically we don't know diddily squat except its shaking like mad every little while. hasta pronto I hope...:o

David K - 11-27-2006 at 09:50 AM

Make sure your camera has fresh batteries!!!

It started to rain, so I am home... send in photos when you have them!:P

Bruce R Leech - 11-27-2006 at 09:58 AM

David could you post a map showing where Shari is in relation with Guerrero Negro so some of the other people that are not familiar with this aria understand where Asuncion is

[Edited on 11-27-2006 by Bruce R Leech]

shari - 11-27-2006 at 09:59 AM

It sure sucks that nobody has come to check this thing out sooner...I just heard on the radio that the earthquake folks in La Paz heard it on the radio!! We've been calling since thursday but no response from anyone. But after yesterdays big show...it's getting more attention now.

Bruce R Leech - 11-27-2006 at 10:04 AM

I would not wait for them. they only shoe up in time to pull your bones out of the ashes.

Iflyfish - 11-27-2006 at 10:16 AM

Be safe. Abrazos amiga.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 11-27-2006 at 10:36 AM

I am so sorry this is happening. Wish I could help more.

Be sure to take your family pictures and important papers with you. These are the items that people most often forget to bring with them in evacuations.

I hope that this will resolve soon and that you can get your life back.

There is an active Volcano that has grown for decades in a Mexican pasture that has never violently exploded, just grew from an anti hill into a mountain.

Thanks for letting us know what is going on, we are worried about you.

Please let us know that you are safe and if there is anything we can do.

Iflyfish

Taco de Baja - 11-27-2006 at 11:10 AM

Some more info on the volcano
Quote:
The volcano’s last strong eruption – with lava and stones – was reported by Fathers Consag and Rodríguez in May-June 1746; in 1857, the volcano spewed a lot of steam
link


Quote:
The Tres Vírgenes volcanic complex contains the only large stratovolcanoes in Baja California. The roughly 1940-m-high complex rises above the Gulf of California in the east-central part of the peninsula. Three volcanoes, El Viejo, El Azufre, and La Vírgen were constructed along a NE-SW line and are progressively younger to the SW. The youngest volcano, La Vírgen, is an andesitic stratovolcano with numerous dacitic lava domes and lava flows on its flanks

A major plinian explosive eruption from a SW-flank vent took place about 6500 years ago and was followed by effusion of a thick lava flow. An ash plume was reported from Tres Vírgenes volcano by a Spanish Jesuit priest while navigating the Gulf of California in 1746, but no deposits from such a young eruption have been found.

link


Location from:

Schmitt, Axel K., Daniel F. Stockli, Brian P. Hausback. 2006
Eruption and magma crystallization ages of Las Tres Vírgenes (Baja California) constrained by combined 230Th/238U and (U–Th)/He dating of zircon. Journal of Volcanology and Geothermal Research 158 (2006) 281–295.

link



[Edited on 11-27-2006 by Taco de Baja]

David K - 11-27-2006 at 11:16 AM

Nothing on the Pacific side near Shari's is shown... This is not part of Tres Virgenes or La Reforma.... Something right UNDER Asuncion is active.

Shari, keep your camera with you and if you see any ground cracks with steam or smoke take both close up and wide angle, with background so we can get perspective.

Thanks and be safe.

Taco de Baja - 11-27-2006 at 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Nothing on the Pacific side near Shari's is shown... This is not part of Tres Virgenes or La Reforma.... Something right UNDER Asuncion is active.

Shari, keep your camera with you and if you see any ground cracks with steam or smoke take both close up and wide angle, with background so we can get perspective.

Thanks and be safe.


Sorry David, my bad.

Here is a map of Asuncion. So we all know where this is occurring. :light:



FARASHA - 11-27-2006 at 11:34 AM

SHARI - hope all goes well, and you are all safe! Watching since your first post whats happening there - Please STAY SAFE.
Bruce might be right - don't wait too long for th specialists to arrive!!

shari - 11-27-2006 at 12:15 PM

I have to stay cause David wants pictures! :lol: We are ready to evacuate..apparently bigger shakes happen in the afternoon as the ground heats up....uh huh..there is so much gossip flying around...but I would like to be here to find out from the specialists...they are bringing apparatus also to detect tidal waves etc. No bajamatic....this isn't my way of drawing attention to asuncion:light:

Bruce R Leech - 11-27-2006 at 12:41 PM

I can tell you right now that you don't want to put much trust or base you decisions on what a couple of guys from La Paz are going to tell you.

jorgie - 11-27-2006 at 12:43 PM

Shari ; what activity, if any , from the sea life ? Are there mammals in the area, onshore rocks, offshore rocks ? Any fishlife death along the beaches ?
Take very good care

Cypress - 11-27-2006 at 01:14 PM

When the ground moves and starts steaming, it's time to head for parts unknown.:bounce: Return when things settle down.:tumble: It'll either be there when you return or it won't.:no:

Do You Know ?

MrBillM - 11-27-2006 at 02:01 PM

Where you're gonna go when the Volcano Blows ?

"I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where I'm a gonna go when the Volacano Blows.
Ground she's movin under me. Tidal waves out on the Sea. Lava come down soft and HOT................."

David K - 11-27-2006 at 02:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
David could you post a map showing where Shari is in relation with Guerrero Negro so some of the other people that are not familiar with this aria understand where Asuncion is

[Edited on 11-27-2006 by Bruce R Leech]


Here you go Bruce...

scan 1106.jpg - 36kB

DianaT - 11-27-2006 at 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I have to stay cause David wants pictures! :lol: We are ready to evacuate..apparently bigger shakes happen in the afternoon as the ground heats up....uh huh..there is so much gossip flying around...but I would like to be here to find out from the specialists...they are bringing apparatus also to detect tidal waves etc. No bajamatic....this isn't my way of drawing attention to asuncion:light:


Shucks, I thought it was just a giant business promotion. :lol::lol:

I hope the "experts" get there soon and can give you some solid information.

STAY SAFE
Diane

Crusoe - 11-27-2006 at 03:02 PM

Shari--Hope you are staying safe. One of your best escape routes is to ride this thing out at sea. Just drift and watch!!! Surely there are pangas available. Good luck.

SGM gelogic maps avail online

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2006 at 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Some more info on the volcano


Taco,
Your map shows only the obvious volcanic cones and fields, but this is only a few of the many hundreds of vents. The basalts you find all over central baja, including Viscainzo penninsula, are tertiary and quaternary volcanics that originated from vents that are not visible, hence not on your map. Magma movement beneath coast in vicinity of asunsion and abreojos is within the realm of possibility, and likely to be associated with vents/areas not on the common maps.
Generalized 250k scale geologic maps for all of baja are available online from Servicio Geologico Mexicano. Google them and you can find them.

David K - 11-27-2006 at 03:41 PM

If you could post a map like that you mention or provide the link, that would be great mtgoat666...

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2006 at 03:53 PM

to get 1:250k scale geologic maps, go to www.coremisgm.gob.mx and follow this series of clicks: productos, 1:250,000, geologico-minera/numero de carta

other maps are available for the clicking.

warning, files sizes are large, so you'll need fast cxn.

A strange area, be careful

Sharksbaja - 11-27-2006 at 04:09 PM

To me it looks as if you sit on a fracture zone that leads outward and intersects the Tosco-Abreojos fault. It's possible the results create an avenue for venting off the deeper fault. You could be in great danger if the vent opens further or plugs up only to let go bigger, later. Because seismic activity is so isolated indicates that those "quakes" may be huge burps as the pressure increases enough to relieve itself. Be wise and don't gamble please.


Looks like the experts are confused as well. This excerpt discusses the fault that lies off-shore of the area. If you can interpret what they are saying.:wow::?::?::?:


http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EAE03/10514/EAE03-J-10514.pdf

Quote:

Additional studies are needed that focus on the timing and magnitude of deformation in northwestern Mexico and a rigorous matching of the geology on either side of the gulf. The most important conclusions to be drawn from the data presented in this paper are that much of northwestern Mexico was highly extended and that most of this extension occurred during the Late Oligocene to Middle Miocene while subduction was ongoing. The inception of rapid, large-magnitude extension was often associated with voluminous mafic to intermediate magmatic activity, suggesting that the input of heat from the mantle may have triggered extensional collapse. An interesting corollary of these conclusions is that it is difficult to come up with sufficient extension that post dates subduction to support the strain partitioning model of Stock and Hodges (1989). Finding the locus of 200-300 km of NW-oriented dextral shear that must have occurred between the Pacific and North American plates during the late Miocene remains an outstanding problem. The choices now are either to hide this displacement offshore along the unfavorably-oriented Tosco-Abreojos lineament and then muster evidence for fairly large magnitude NE-SW extension of this age, or to find this displacement within the proto-Gulf province - perhaps as a system of more favorably oriented en echelon strike slip faults and oblique normal faults (Fig. 10). In either case, the definitive test of these ideas will have to come from the geology.
http://www.geol.ucsb.edu/faculty/gans/mexico/srmanu.html

Taco de Baja - 11-27-2006 at 04:14 PM

Here is a view based on the link mtgoat provided, showing a Quaternary basaltic flow to the north of Asuncion (the brown area mapped as QptB). Maybe the activity is from here???
Sorry, not exactly sure of the map scale, in this copied section of the map.


David K - 11-27-2006 at 04:29 PM

Thanks Taco de Baja... I see two faults intersecting just a mile or two north of Shari's place and lava flow (?) on top of that... Oh great...

Stickers - 11-27-2006 at 04:44 PM

Shari, I just talked to Dr. Robert Trombley the vulcanologist from the South West Volcano Research Center. He was very interested in the events occurring in your area and said something could be "happening". It seems that these events take place every day in many locations and amount to zip so nobody jumps except the poor folks at ground zero.

He said if the disturbance continues he is willing to come down and check it out. I offered to fly him down but he doesn't have any portable equipment so he would be making visual observations. When the Long Valley dome formed at Mammoth California there was very sophisticated equipment rigged up to monitor the ground.

I might add there were people at the campground that died in their sleep form gases seeping out of the ground.

David K - 11-27-2006 at 04:45 PM

Whole villages in Cameroon, Africa were poisoned from belching volcanic gas coming from a crater-lake.

Timbercrete - 11-27-2006 at 04:57 PM

I believe the Cameroon, Africa event was from desolved CO2 in the lake water. It was released by a landslide that disturbed the surface of the lake, that was containing the CO2

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2006 at 05:09 PM

The internet is great! It brings out so much nonsense and unrelated information! This scientist greatly enjoys watching the misinformation unfold!
Cameroonians would agree with the advice to not trust La Paz! (but mexicans may want to put more trust in a scintist from La Paz, particulary, as he/she may know more than any of us savants)
David K says there is a lava flow just north of Ascunsion, but neglects to note that it is Quaternary, annd therefore could be over 2 million years old.
Somebody thinks the faults are "belching" stuff!
Personally, I think the rapture is about to happen,... or maybe that's the weed kicking in,....

David K - 11-27-2006 at 05:32 PM

CO2 is poison gas to humans when it overwhelms normal air... and being heavier than most air, is low to the ground... I did put a (?) after my lava flow guess... I do know that Shari has described the rock that their house is on... and it sounds like basalt (ie. lava).

I am no scientist, nor play one on TV!:spingrin:

Taco de Baja - 11-27-2006 at 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
The internet is great! It brings out so much nonsense and unrelated information! This scientist greatly enjoys watching the misinformation unfold!
Cameroonians would agree with the advice to not trust La Paz! (but mexicans may want to put more trust in a scintist from La Paz, particulary, as he/she may know more than any of us savants)
David K says there is a lava flow just north of Ascunsion, but neglects to note that it is Quaternary, annd therefore could be over 2 million years old.
Somebody thinks the faults are "belching" stuff!
Personally, I think the rapture is about to happen,... or maybe that's the weed kicking in,....


I agree on misinformation.

The faults could be several million to 10's of millions of years old, just because a geologist mapped them does not mean they have moved recently. Or, for than matter, have anything to do with the recent shaking and belching

However, I think you meant to say ".....Quaternary, and therefore could be up to 2 million years old......"
As my geology teacher told me the Quaternary only goes back 1.8 million.....

tripledigitken - 11-27-2006 at 05:57 PM

I'm glad I'm not a resident of Bahia Asuncion reading all these posts speculating on matters they have no knowledge of (scientists among us excluded of course). Shari et al..our thoughts and prayers are with you.

shari - 11-27-2006 at 06:13 PM

Wow love that map but it's kinda scary where our house it located right at those 2 likes at the point! Would it be possible for mrgoat to email me that map in a smaller format with the key so we know what all those lines are??they say it is the Tosco Abreojos fault that is acting up which runs along in front of here. Last week, I smelled a new smell, kinda like a burnt rock smell...dry...never smelled it before but I have a real keen sniffer and wondered about it...hmmm. The birds at the island have been swarming aloft at every boom and shake but the horse just eats and the dogs are a bit nervous but no dead fish. Maybe they were right that its just a build up of energy that needs releasing and yesterday it got rid of alot of gas....27 quakes!We'll see what tomorrow brings...many thanks for your concern and prayers.

MtGoat

Sharksbaja - 11-27-2006 at 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
The internet is great! It brings out so much nonsense and unrelated information! This scientist greatly enjoys watching the misinformation unfold!
Cameroonians would agree with the advice to not trust La Paz! (but mexicans may want to put more trust in a scintist from La Paz, particulary, as he/she may know more than any of us savants)
David K says there is a lava flow just north of Ascunsion, but neglects to note that it is Quaternary, annd therefore could be over 2 million years old.
Somebody thinks the faults are "belching" stuff!
Personally, I think the rapture is about to happen,... or maybe that's the weed kicking in,....



Please set us all straight. Theorizing here is not permitted nor are peoples' own idea of what's happening.

Now you people just stop thinking about the event while the expert gives us "real information" and not some armchair genius' idea of what's goin' on.

Good grief man, it's a friggin' discussion not a geology symposium. Please share your wealth.


Would you feel silly if someone were to be correct?

jerry - 11-27-2006 at 08:43 PM

its not about being bossy or trying to advocate its about trying to inform people of the posabilitys hence discusion i hope that none of the things that i mentioned happen
I HOPE IM WRONG
sticking your head in the sand and being a monday night quarterback helps no one

Bruce R Leech - 11-27-2006 at 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
The internet is great! It brings out so much nonsense and unrelated information! This scientist greatly enjoys watching the misinformation unfold!
Cameroonians would agree with the advice to not trust La Paz! (but mexicans may want to put more trust in a scintist from La Paz, particulary, as he/she may know more than any of us savants)
David K says there is a lava flow just north of Ascunsion, but neglects to note that it is Quaternary, annd therefore could be over 2 million years old.
Somebody thinks the faults are "belching" stuff!
Personally, I think the rapture is about to happen,... or maybe that's the weed kicking in,....




you do a pretty good job of putting down everyones Ideas in your post , and make a big deal out of calling your self a scientist. but you don't offer any expert opinion's.

BajaBruno - 11-27-2006 at 09:33 PM

Stay calm, gents. It's a tough time for the folks in Bahia A. and it does no good for the folks in the box seats to be bickering about the referees or the score. Take a deep breath, let it out slow, and try to be helpful without being hurtful.

elgatoloco - 11-27-2006 at 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBruno
............... box seats.......


That should read.......peanut gallery............? :biggrin::lol::smug:

Jimmy Buffett's got some good advice on his new CD...

Mexray - 11-27-2006 at 11:40 PM

...named "Jimmy Buffett - Take the Weather with you"

One of his new tunes is called 'Breathe in, Breathe out, Move on'

It includes some 'comment' about hurricane Katrina in the Gulf - good stuff, and my favorite line, other than the title itself, is,

"If a hurricane doesn't leave you dead
It will make you strong."

Here's all the lyrics.... written by Jimmy Buffett/Matt Betton - 2005 Coral Reefer Music & Vernon Dubusque Music.

Breathe in, Breathe out, Move on...

I bought a cheap watch from the crazy man
floating down Canal
It doesn't use numbers or moving hands
It always just says now
Now you may be thinking that I was had
But this watch is never wrong
And if I have trouble the warranty said
Breathe in Breathe out move on

And it rained
It was nothing really new
And it blew
We've seen all that before
And it poured
The earth began to strain
Ponchartrain
Leaking through the door
Tides at war

If a hurricane doesn't leave you dead
It will make you strong
Don't try to explain just nod your head
Breathe in Breathe out move on

And it rained
It was nothing really new
And it blew
We've seen all that before
And it poured
The earth began to strain
Ponchartrain
Buried the Ninth Ward
to the second floor

According to my watch the time is now
The past is dead and gone
Don't try to shake it just nod your head
Breathe in breathe out move on
Don't try to explain it just bow your head
Breathe in breathe out move on




...Jimmy sure knows how to warp words and notes! He's got another new one on the CD that's sure to be a 'classic', called "Everybody's on the Phone" about our obsession with our cell phones!..."Everybody's on the phone - So connected and all alone - from the pizza boy to socialite - we all salute the satellite...


[Edited on 11-28-2006 by Mexray]

palm tree dance.gif - 10kB

Mixing Meta4's

motoged - 11-27-2006 at 11:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jerry

sticking your head in the sand and being a monday night quarterback helps no one


Jerry,

Uh, it might help the other team :lol:

Ged

Jimmy is good in my book

Sharksbaja - 11-27-2006 at 11:57 PM

I like many of his lyrics too. Playing his cool Christmas CD at the restaurant tonight was fun. Good stuff. Seems attractive to all ages. Does he have a song about potential warning signs of impending natural disaster? i.e. "belching" :lol:

Ever eat at "Hamburguesa de Paradiso"?:cool:

"Hamburger" in Paradise.

MrBillM - 11-28-2006 at 10:44 AM

Back in 91, we chartered a sailboat vacation with another non-sailing couple in the BVIs. We had the boat larder pre-stocked with all sorts of great foods and, during our sailing from Island to Island, we sampled all sorts of food at numerous great restaurants. At the end of the charter, we spent two days on Tortola seeing the sights. After sailing around for two weeks listening to Jimmy Buffett on the stereo, we stopped in downtown Roadtown at a small roadside cafe called "Cell 5" and ordered Hamburgers with French Fries. After two weeks, nothing was more delicious than that Hamburger. No Queso for me, though.

[Edited on 11-28-2006 by MrBillM]

Bruce R Leech - 11-28-2006 at 12:05 PM

Cheeze Burger

Cypress - 11-28-2006 at 12:27 PM

Geothermal energy!! Tap into the steam and let nature do the rest.:light: Careful!;D

OOPS!

Sharksbaja - 11-28-2006 at 06:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Cheeze Burger


Thanks Bruce


como se dice'?

mtgoat666 - 11-29-2006 at 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Thanks Taco de Baja... I see two faults intersecting just a mile or two north of Shari's place and lava flow (?) on top of that... Oh great...


The quaternary basalt is very visible (dark brown) in Google Earth, can see depresssions in several places that appear to be relic vents.

Stickers - 11-29-2006 at 09:00 PM

North of town it looks clearly like a vent and flow to the South.


.

Mango - 11-29-2006 at 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666The quaternary basalt is very visible (dark brown) in Google Earth, can see depresssions in several places that appear to be relic vents.


No offense, but I have to ask: are you just blowing air, or do you have some professional expertise in this field?

--Larry


Well, since there are only about 1500 members of the International Association of Volcanology and Chemisty of the Earth's Interior in the entire world. I think our pick of experts here on Baja Nomads is going to be rather limited.

Before I get started I might add this disclamer: I am sure both volcanoes as well as Baja Nomad memebers have been known to blow "hot air".

However I think mtgoat666 my be on to something.

I took a few geology courses in my day and work for various geotechnical and civil engineering firms as a consultant; albeit, for construction projects. I am hardly a Volcanologist. But, from what I can see on Google Earth, the Mesa Punta de Auras north of town does have characteristics of an ancient volcanic flow. The only way to know for sure is to examine it first hand. But from google earth you can tell that the material that makes up the Mesa is darker in color than the surrounding soil.

Also, the mesa, by its very existance, appears to be more resistant to weathering and erosion than surrounding matterial. It appears to form a "cap" over softer material. A classic sign of an ancient volcanic flow.

If you look 10 to 15 miles to the east of the Mesa on google earth you will notice what appears to be a few conical dark areas around C. Santa Maria (Baja Almanac/Google Earth) One large cone and what appears to be about 4 or 5 smaller weathered cones. (Just south of the dirt road that runs NW to SW)

Thats just my hot air. But at least I took non-bonehead Geology courses in college and high school.

The facts are. The entire Pacific Coast is situated on the western edge or the "Ring of Fire". The ring is a hotbed of earthquakes and volcanic activity. Baja would still be attached to mainland Mexico if it were not for movement of these plates.

The Pacific Tectonic plate is currently subsiding beneath the North American Plate along the west coast of North America. Two results of this subsidence is volcanic activity and eathquakes. Things tend to happen slow in geology with the exception of two things: Earthquakes and Eruptions.

Having grown up in California and had a passion for climbing Volcanoes I have a little experience with both. They can be interesting for those of us afar; but, volcanoes and earthquakes can be dangerous and terrifying. My thoughts and feelings are with those who are troubled by these events. Hot air, or not. I hope and wish the best for all.

Listen to the real, "experts" if you can find them. Take everything else with salt, lime, and tequila. I would try a few calls and emails to the USGS to see if you can get any advice or answers. I have found little official current information on the web. The USGS did list a 4.5 and a 4.8 earthquake offsore in the last day at a depth of 6.2 miles. (Pretty shallow) I would imagine the USGS or a professor from a US University(or even at UNAM) would be interested about this if you could get past the recetionist at the front desk.

Good luck and take care.

Bruce R Leech - 11-30-2006 at 07:50 AM

SiReNiTa
I don't want to scare you or anything but I don't think your mother just moving a couple miles from ground zero is enough. if everything you and her have been reporting is correct things are steadily getting worse the ground is moving more and the earth quakes are getting stronger. that means you are not getting after shocks. your are getting for shocks of a larger event. a 6 something for shock is nothing to stick around for. when you talk to your mother on the phone tell her to forget the animals and come to you so you don't need to worry

mtgoat666 - 11-30-2006 at 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666The quaternary basalt is very visible (dark brown) in Google Earth, can see depresssions in several places that appear to be relic vents.


No offense, but I have to ask: are you just blowing air, or do you have some professional expertise in this field?

--Larry


I got a bit of professsional expertise in geology. But in this case, I have never been to the location, and all I've done is compare the geologic map and the Google Earth air photo. The guys from La Paz will figure it out (despite people trash-talking the La Paz scientists, I happen to think they are some pretty savvy guys and will figure out what's been shaking)

Paula - 11-30-2006 at 10:58 AM

"Something that's surprised me in this thread is the scarcely-veiled contempt for Mexican professionals and the presumption that the experts from the U.S. should be stepping in here with the Asunción situation. I share the distain for bureaucrats of any country, but am really puzzled by this lack of respect for the Mexican scientific community... by folks who I suspect in our majority have had no direct contact with it."

It seems to be one of our negative "cultural differences"-- our lack of confidence and trust of all sorts of people here. We bring building materials and appliances from the states, go north to see a doctor, and now need the USGS to expain what is happening in Asuncion.
And we wonder why we are peceived as bein arrogant!:spingrin:

jerry - 11-30-2006 at 11:14 AM

sorry for seeming arrogant im just calling a spade a spade
when the so called professionals show up from LaPaz and say its perfectly safe when there is no way that they can even know whats going on
i think it speakes for its self making a statment befor the information is gathered is arrogant and down right dangerous it would have been safer if they had said nothing ppl respond to professionals and trust in them so now im sopost to say ok guys you were wrong once well give you another chance?? its not a matter of being wrong its a matter of giving people false informtion that could have killed them

Arrogant? Who

Stickers - 11-30-2006 at 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jerry
sorry for seeming arrogant im just calling a spade a spade
when the so called professionals show up from LaPaz and say its perfectly safe when there is no way that they can even know whats going on


Your first obligation when responding to a disaster or potential disaster is to not CREAT A PANIC. The second thing you need to do is "try" to assess what's going on. NOT EASY.
The third thing you need to do is have the army or equivalent on hand before you evacuate for obvious reasons.
I think this process went OK and I might add that there are brilliant scientist that also happen to be Mexican. I know one personally who is working in Paris right now. Maybe Washington D.C. should pay attention. Or was the Katrina evacuation so brilliant.



.

The Sculpin - 11-30-2006 at 12:08 PM

Gee...maybe the La Paz "experts" consulted with the USGS before arriving?!?
Considering that most vulcanologists throughout the world probabaly go through the USGS at some point in their carreers, it's not an erroneous assumption that any type of analysis would also go through there.

Capt. George - 11-30-2006 at 12:16 PM

santa rosallilitta:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

enough said of ingenuity and expertise?

Brilliant "Mexican" Scientists ?

MrBillM - 11-30-2006 at 12:19 PM

Not having heard a lot regarding said scientists, WHO exactly, are they ? What are their credentials and accomplishments ?

Lencho

fdt - 11-30-2006 at 01:15 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Cant stop laughing, just noticed your mood after reading Mrbill and the captain :lol::lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol:

Cypress - 11-30-2006 at 01:53 PM

Regarding the New Orleans evacuation. You ought to address that question to the "right honorable Mayor", Mr Ray Nagin.:bounce::bounce:

Tomas Tierra - 11-30-2006 at 02:20 PM

Nagin please.

Capt. George - 11-30-2006 at 02:35 PM

you can call me Ray, and you can call me Jay, but ya doesn't hafta call me Mayor Nagin!!!


as soon as the geniuses fix Rosallilitta, they're gonna put their heads together with the Mayor and get all in order, north & south of the border.

the captain (fdt, I like that, "the captain")

Mango - 11-30-2006 at 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by The Sculpin
Gee...maybe the La Paz "experts" consulted with the USGS before arriving?!?
Considering that most vulcanologists throughout the world probabaly go through the USGS at some point in their carreers, it's not an erroneous assumption that any type of analysis would also go through there.


When it comes to earthquake research the Japanese have most people beat. However, the USGS is respected internationally as an authority and have extensive knowledge about tectonic plate movement, earthquakes, and volcanoes.

I'd also think that Geologists from DF would know a thing or two about volcanos as well since they live right under an active volcano.

The word Geology means littarally the study of earthly things. I don't think Geologists are overly concerened with language, borders, or customs. They care about the earth. If someone can offer answers, I don't care where they come from or live.

We are all trying to seek the truth and the facts. For some, the path to finding answers may be easier to deal with someone from their own culture. Either way. Let's see what the guys and gals, be they Mexican, American, or Japanese, who study the earth come up with some answers. There is no arrogance about the search for truth and fact; although, we will may get something else in the end.

Bob H - 12-1-2006 at 11:52 AM

Why don't we see anything in the news here in San Diego about this activity? There is nothing reported about this on the news channels our the San Diego Union Tribune. If there was a 6point-something, you'd think we'd hear about it locally.
Bob H

toneart - 12-1-2006 at 12:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Why don't we see anything in the news here in San Diego about this activity? There is nothing reported about this on the news channels our the San Diego Union Tribune. If there was a 6point-something, you'd think we'd hear about it locally.
Bob H


Good question! I have been critical of the U.S. Press regarding other newsworthy events in Baja; Mulege flood, violence, and now this. Several Nomads kept badgering the San Diego Union and other media after the Mulege flood because nothing was being reported. The press can make a difference in how quickly aid can be mobilized and possibly save lives. Again, the BajaNomad forums were the only link to the outside world and the only source of information. After much delay, Nomad Lindsay was able to personally contact S.D. Union reporter Sandra Dibble and she took a personal interest in Baja then, and since then regarding other Baja events.

CNN had one reporter in Cabo San Lucas when Hurricane John was threatening. It eventually brushed by, but missed Cabo as a target and hit headlong into the east cape. Then it proceeded to sweep up the Sea of Cortez, eventually stalling out over Mulege, causing so much destruction and even death.
Some poor American tourists had their vacations "spoiled" by having to stay inside their hotel for a couple of days and drink Margaritas and cerveza. Now that's news! :wow:

Taco de Baja - 12-1-2006 at 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Why don't we see anything in the news here in San Diego about this activity? There is nothing reported about this on the news channels our the San Diego Union Tribune. If there was a 6point-something, you'd think we'd hear about it locally.
Bob H


Because eartquake happen all the time all over the World. It is news to those affected, but not to anyone else.

If the papers mentioned all the EQs larger than 3 (about the size you can feel)...that's all they would be reporting. There are over 143,000 a year (~400 per day or 17 per hour...one every 3.5 minutes)

Acording to the USGS:

Descriptor.......Magnitude Average .....Annually
Great............... 8 and higher......................... 1 ¹
Major .............. 7 - 7.9 ...............................17 ²
Strong .............6 - 6.9 ...............................134 ²
Moderate ........ 5 - 5.9 .............................13,19 ²
Light ................4 - 4.9 ...........................13,000
(estimated)
Minor ...............3 - 3.9 ..........................130,000
(estimated)
Very Minor ....... 2 - 2.9 .......................1,300,000
(estimated)

¹ Based on observations since 1900.
² Based on observations since 1990.
Link

Bob H - 12-1-2006 at 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Why don't we see anything in the news here in San Diego about this activity? There is nothing reported about this on the news channels our the San Diego Union Tribune. If there was a 6point-something, you'd think we'd hear about it locally.
Bob H


Because eartquake happen all the time all over the World. It is news to those affected, but not to anyone else.

If the papers mentioned all the EQs larger than 3 (about the size you can feel)...that's all they would be reporting. There are over 143,000 a year (~400 per day or 17 per hour...one every 3.5 minutes)

Acording to the USGS:

Descriptor.......Magnitude Average .....Annually
Great............... 8 and higher......................... 1 ¹
Major .............. 7 - 7.9 ...............................17 ²
Strong .............6 - 6.9 ...............................134 ²
Moderate ........ 5 - 5.9 .............................13,19 ²
Light ................4 - 4.9 ...........................13,000
(estimated)
Minor ...............3 - 3.9 ..........................130,000
(estimated)
Very Minor ....... 2 - 2.9 .......................1,300,000
(estimated)

¹ Based on observations since 1900.
² Based on observations since 1990.
Link


I understand what you are saying, but the sequence of these events seem unusual and the reports we receive here are getting worse. An entire area has been evacuated, etc. In my opinion we should be reading and receiving more news and information regarding the activity in this instance.

Bruce R Leech - 12-1-2006 at 07:48 PM

I lived in a house on Loma Preata during the 1989 Loma Preata earth quake and it was a 7.1. my house was about 2000 feet from ground zero and I can tell you it makes a big difference as to where you are. Shari is setting right on top of what is going on and makes that 4.0 feel like a 7.0 if you were a few miles away.

jerry - 12-1-2006 at 08:02 PM

i think if its your house falling down around your ears and family its news worthy?? but its perfectly safe for you but im not going to be hangin around

It's not Cabo, that's why

fdt - 12-1-2006 at 08:26 PM

It's probably due to the fact that very few people know were Asuncion is and probably never will as oposed to Cabo, San Diego's back yard playground, with major airlines, cruise ships, major chain hotels golf courses up the burro, millions and millions of dollars spent on promotion and advertisement for many many years. So sorry to say that I understand the SD Union, CNN, even the Sudcaliforniano for that case, it's not a big deal to them, media can not report on every single event that happens everywere, it would not fit in any type of format. I for example now, and only because of this board know that there is a B&B in Asuncion (GOOOOOOOOOOL), because of this board I now know there is a playa Armenta and for the life f me I cant find a place that can tell me were to pay $50 pesos for a permit to have pepper spray. Now if we were to organize a hughe tourism board for Laguna Hanson, Cañon de Guadalupe, Shell island, Cocos Corner, BOLA, Bahia Concepcion, lost missions and a San Bartolo bambo park, have major airlines, cruise ships, hoards of tour busses, neon signs and get Mr. Hilton and Mr. Marriott to invest in some properties, then and only then if someone was to tira a pedo apestoso would it hit the news in a flash

woody with a view - 12-1-2006 at 08:37 PM

one can only hope that when the rumbling subsides, and everyone is safe that a new reef will have risen from the depths!!!:o:light::saint:

bajabound2005 - 12-1-2006 at 09:05 PM

it made the headlines in today's Ensenada newspaper -- that it was earthquakes and NOT a new volcano....but it would be great to get ONE thread going with real news about the area- seems no one from that area is posting now!!

Bruce R Leech - 12-1-2006 at 09:10 PM

in this case I think that no news is bad news. I think they would be posting if they could.

Bob H - 12-1-2006 at 09:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fdt
It's probably due to the fact that very few people know were Asuncion is and probably never will as oposed to Cabo, San Diego's back yard playground, with major airlines, cruise ships, major chain hotels golf courses up the burro, millions and millions of dollars spent on promotion and advertisement for many many years. So sorry to say that I understand the SD Union, CNN, even the Sudcaliforniano for that case, it's not a big deal to them, media can not report on every single event that happens everywere, it would not fit in any type of format.


We should have more coverage, period! This seems like a major event to me. I only hope the people in that region make it through this unscathed.
Bob H

Iflyfish - 12-2-2006 at 01:45 AM

We have come to know and care about these very real people and so really want to know.

Those of us who have experienced major enviornmental disasters like the Loma Prieta Quake and Mt St Helens Eruption know the power of these things and worry. Really worry. We want to know! and want to know NOW!

I hope we hear more soon from Shari. I appreciate real information.

Iflyfish when not worried about Shari and Juan

Iflyfish - 12-2-2006 at 02:58 AM

Looks like quakes continue

DATE LAT LON MAG DEPTH REGION
01-DEC-2006 19:33:08 26.69 -114.15 4.7 10.0 OFF W. COAST OF BAJA CALIFORNIA
29-NOV-2006 21:10:55 32.81 -115.98 4.0 0.1 CALIF.-BAJA CALIF. BORDER REGION
29-NOV-2006 16:15:12 26.70 -114.09 4.5 10.0 OFF W. COAST OF BAJA CALIFORNIA
29-NOV-2006 14:34:02 26.62 -114.14 4.8 10.0 OFF W. COAST OF BAJA CALIFORNIA

Iflyfish

Pescador - 12-2-2006 at 07:17 AM

I have a friend, whom we affectionately call Dirty Diesel Dave, that is building a house there. He drove up and was allowed to go check his house, but was unable to stay there. He has been in California for lots of quakes but described the tremor there as unlike anything he had ever experienced before. They did report a 6 on Thursday and some damage.
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