BajaNomad - Boat Seizues B.C.S

Boat Seizues B.C.S

El Comadante Loco - 12-7-2006 at 10:21 AM

PROFEPA BOAT SEIZURES

Before Thanksgiving a friend of mine and his partner had their boats and gear seized by PROFEPA. They were found to be in illegal possession of sea shells.
Five PORFEPA agents in a 25ft panga boarded their boats about 8 miles west of isla del Carmen. Their dive gear was taken and they were ordered to follow them to Loreto.
The guys soon the lost sight of the agents, since the panga was much faster, and decided to return to Juncalito to inform the rest of the group of the situation and before proceeding to Loreto. Not more than a few minutes later several PROFEPA vehicles arrived and seized the boats and ordered the guys to Loreto where they were questioned for hours and made to sign statements in Spanish which they could not read.
An attorney has been hired in La Paz and the proposed fine is $2,500,000 pesos. The attorney informed the guys that PROFEPA has been very active targeting tourist and fining them.
Has anyone had their boat and gear seized by PROFEPA and have had their property returned???
Any help or ideas would be appreciated....

Cypress - 12-7-2006 at 10:30 AM

They ignored the instructions given to them by the PROFEPA?: :?:

If I'm wrong about this let me know, but when the "Law" tells you to do something it's a good idea to follow their instructions. :yes:

Profepa

capn.sharky - 12-7-2006 at 10:34 AM

Yes--they have been busy. However, are you sure it was just sea shells that they had. I know of two groups down your way that were fined and boats were taken for illegal taking of lobster and using spear guns (which is illegal). Mexico is getting serious about conservation. You even need to get a permit to cut brush and trees on your own property. Check with your friends and see if it was only sea shells that they had. I am sorry that had their boats and gear taken.....but I have seen them take pangas from pangeros too.

El Comadante Loco - 12-7-2006 at 11:04 AM

You are right. They should have followed to Loreto. Not follwing made the probelm worse...

Don Alley - 12-7-2006 at 11:11 AM

They have been busy. They were all over a Mexican panga at the marina yesterday.

I just returned from the office at the marina. I am trying to renew the fishing license on my Fish 'n Dive kayak. I've had it licensed for three years but this year they will not renew unless I have "documents." Like state registration papers for a 12 foot kayak. I was going fishing Friday or Saturday, now, hmmm...

cymeryss - 12-7-2006 at 12:25 PM

I don't want to steal a subject,, but does anybody know if having a speargun on the boat (with boat permit and fish licenses for all aboard) while you dive is illeagal? I mean, having a speargun is legel, freediving with a speargun is legal, but if I plan to dive without a spear gun and then drop my gear on the boat and do couple of freedives with the gun??? I know they could always say that you got the fish while you were diving and not freediving cause you got your gear onboard, or is it only if you get caught in the act? Any experiences with that? I am planning on a trip to Loreto area for christmas and don't want to get in trouble, or have my gear and boat taken away.

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
PROFEPA BOAT SEIZURES

Before Thanksgiving a friend of mine and his partner had their boats and gear seized by PROFEPA. They were found to be in illegal possession of sea shells.
Five PORFEPA agents in a 25ft panga boarded their boats about 8 miles west of isla del Carmen. Their dive gear was taken and they were ordered to follow them to Loreto.
The guys soon the lost sight of the agents, since the panga was much faster, and decided to return to Juncalito to inform the rest of the group of the situation and before proceeding to Loreto. Not more than a few minutes later several PROFEPA vehicles arrived and seized the boats and ordered the guys to Loreto where they were questioned for hours and made to sign statements in Spanish which they could not read.
An attorney has been hired in La Paz and the proposed fine is $2,500,000 pesos. The attorney informed the guys that PROFEPA has been very active targeting tourist and fining them.
Has anyone had their boat and gear seized by PROFEPA and have had their property returned???
Any help or ideas would be appreciated....

no you will never have that Boat or equipment again. the best you could hope for ids to get that Fine reduced a bit

to every one in Mexico. Know the law and stay well within it.

Diver - 12-7-2006 at 12:39 PM

Bruce,

If you've got the right connections, maybe you can get me a deal on a recently confiscated panga ??? :biggrin:

vandenberg - 12-7-2006 at 12:44 PM

Cymeryss,
Loreto is part of national aquatic park system. You can dive, with tanks I presume, but spearfishing in the park is a no-no, free diving or not. And if you have tanks on board ,get stopped, and try to explain that your fish were shot while freediving? Lots of luck !! Better get to know the park boundaries before you go out. Right now pretty much all the prime freedive-spearfishing spots are out of bounds.
But happy hunting anyway ! :spingrin:

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 12:46 PM

usually the ones that PROFEPA gets never see water again. just like the cars they go into impound lots and never come out.

Diver - 12-7-2006 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
usually the ones that PROFEPA gets never see water again. just like the cars they go into impound lots and never come out.

So who's brother-in-law has the keys to the impound ??? :lol:

jerry - 12-7-2006 at 12:55 PM

seems they should have an auction??

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 01:00 PM

what they need to watch for now is if they own any thing in Mexico the PROFEPA Will seize it in Lu of the pending fine. also there could be criminal charges filed. could be a good time to join the DOG in Hawaii.

jimgrms - 12-7-2006 at 01:10 PM

Not sure about spear fishing , but if youare in a boat with fishing equipment onboard you and (all other passangers are required to have a fishing license) those folks proably had shellfish on board, usually in post like this lots of facts are changed for one reason or another,, i remember a post along these lines Shari warning people about the possibility of this happening

howat - 12-7-2006 at 02:26 PM

Why the sympathy for these poachers? For over twenty years i've listen to stories or witnessed in disgust gringos taking shellfish illegally and over limits of fish all over baja with no fear of reprisal. You would think this mexican resource was their god-given right. The nerve of these lawbreakers. Finally the mexican government is doing something constructive about it. Hope PROFEPA keeps up the good work and takes all their boats and gear.

HH

cymeryss - 12-7-2006 at 02:49 PM

So is fishing legal in the Loreto Park? How about spearfishing? I need to figure out these laws before I go down there. Thanks for any input.

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 02:50 PM

thank you howat no one can plead ignorant on this the laws have been in effect for many years and every one knows that sooner or later they will be unforced. allot of these Mexican bureaucracy's are out trying to make examples of some people who are operating in illegal fashion right now we have the radio guys here now and they are going to catch someone on 2 meters or some other frequency with out a license and they are going to throw the book at them soothers will get legal. also the immigration dept. is getting ready to make some sweeps. it is encouraging to see this hapening.

vandenberg - 12-7-2006 at 03:03 PM

Cymeryss

Read my post again. Fishing OK. No spearfishing in the park.

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cymeryss
So is fishing legal in the Loreto Park? How about spearfishing? I need to figure out these laws before I go down there. Thanks for any input.

why don't you check there website or read the paper they give you when you get your license, or better both.

DON

djh - 12-7-2006 at 03:20 PM

Check your U2U
djh.

bancoduo - 12-7-2006 at 03:32 PM

Some of you get tough on gringos guys should look in a mirror. This new enforcement mode might come back and bite you in the ass. :fire:

oxxo - 12-7-2006 at 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco

Five PORFEPA agents in a 25ft panga boarded their boats about 8 miles west of isla del Carmen.

Whoa......! I've been reading some of the other threads about fake policemen stopping cars and then robbing the occupants. I'm not sure I would let a panga load of guys who said they were from PORFEPA aboard my boat, for any reason, even if the did show me "credentials." I don't let anyone aboard my boat unless it is obviously the Mexican Navy. I would follow the "PORFEPA" guys wherever they told me to follow, but I would not let them aboard.....only in port with lots of people around. I am very leery about the situation and violence in Mexico today. The cardinal rule is don't let anyone aboard your boat in an isolated spot especially if you are outnumbered.

toneart - 12-7-2006 at 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco

Five PORFEPA agents in a 25ft panga boarded their boats about 8 miles west of isla del Carmen.

Oxxo-- How would you stop them if you are outnumbered?

toneart - 12-7-2006 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
thank you howat no one can plead ignorant on this the laws have been in effect for many years and every one knows that sooner or later they will be unforced. allot of these Mexican bureaucracy's are out trying to make examples of some people who are operating in illegal fashion right now we have the radio guys here now and they are going to catch someone on 2 meters or some other frequency with out a license and they are going to throw the book at them soothers will get legal. also the immigration dept. is getting ready to make some sweeps. it is encouraging to see this hapening.

Bruce- Would you elaborate about "the immigration dept. is getting ready to make some sweeps."? Is this connected with boats? What are they looking for?

Minnow - 12-7-2006 at 04:54 PM

If these guys were in the wrong then they deserve what they get. It is illegal to collect shells alone, let alone shell fish. I guess they figure that those shells might have had occupants home when you found them. I would never sign anything that I did not understand what it said, even if that ment a few days in the hoowskow.

oxxo, I would love to see you try to stop any Mexican official from doing an inspection on your boat. If that were to happen you had better just hope for the best. Or, do you carry the firepower on board to back up your words?

I often fish with Mexican Nationals on my boat. They claim that they don't need a license. Does that apply if they are on a boat owned by a foreigner? :lol:

Don Alley - 12-7-2006 at 05:15 PM

If Profepa officials, just like Fish and Game wardens in the US, want to board and inspect your catch, seems to me you have to let them. If that's a really big problem due to security concerns, I guess all you can do is go see the local Profepa guys on shore, see what they look like so you'll recognize them if they later want to board your vessel. Otherwise, I see a big mess happening.

As for these guys, I can't really pass judgement without better, more reliable information. So while I have little (if any) sympathy for poachers, I believe the law will allow the siezure of your boat or car for possession of a few empty sea shells, in a park being decimated by gill netting in accordance with their "management plan." That's the law, and something about that seems just a little fishy. :biggrin:

As for ignorance of the law being no excuse...I don't know the answer to Minnow's question: Does a Mexican national need a license on an American boat? (The regulations say everyone on board). What are the boat owners responsibilities and liabilities? I do fish with a Mexican national, and will when I get a boat in the spring.

oxxo - 12-7-2006 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow

oxxo, I would love to see you try to stop any Mexican official from doing an inspection on your boat. If that were to happen you had better just hope for the best. Or, do you carry the firepower on board to back up your words?

That is a fair question. I do not carry any firearms aboard, other than a flare gun, but I would have to feel VERY threathened before I would even consider using that.

My boat has high gunnels and no swim platform, so it takes some effort and assistance from aboard for someone to get aboard from a panga. If they didn't have guns, they could be repelled by someone aboard. If they have guns, then not much can be done.

I have no problem with a Mexican official inspecting my boat. I have a problem with 5 guys in a panga, claiming they are Mexican officials coming aboard my boat. It is indeed a dilemma considering the recent attacks directed at Americans in Baja. If all the guys were in uniform and the boat had some sort of official logo on the side, I would feel more comfortable (is that too much to expect?). Much of the problem has to do with people of various nationalities either ignoring or unaware of Mexican Maritime Law with regards to spearguns, fishing seasons, collecting shellfish/crustaceans, etc.

I would like to hear some suggestions from this group about boardings when the individuals look suspicious.....no uniforms and no markings on the boat even though they say they are Mexican officials. What should you do?

Minnow - 12-7-2006 at 05:26 PM

RUUUUUNNNNNNNN! And hope they don't have guns. Didn't and american crusing couple get killed by some pirates jsut north of La Paz several years ago? I wonder what their MO was.

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 05:52 PM

Does a Mexican national need a license on an American boat?

Yes absolutely there is no deferent set of laws for Mexicans the law is the law and you stand a chance of losing your boat if you let a Mexicano fish with out a license.

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Bruce- Would you elaborate about "the immigration dept. is getting ready to make some sweeps."? Is this connected with boats? What are they looking for?

I don't know. when I was in there Office last week they told me only that. and that they knew several people here that don't have proper papers and were going to be checking on them.

QuePasaBaja - 12-7-2006 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
usually the ones that PROFEPA gets never see water again. just like the cars they go into impound lots and never come out.

So who's brother-in-law has the keys to the impound ??? :lol:

So true. there are some here that are OLD. I do think however that they should sell them and use the money for new equipment and training etc.

Minnow - 12-7-2006 at 05:57 PM

Hummmm? I am leaning more towards agreeing with you Bruce than not. Otherwise, you could just claim the boat was the Mexicans, then I would only need a fishing license and not a boat permit. I am going to call pesca in SD tomorrow and see what they say.

Ever check out some of the boats in the impound at the CERESO south of Sta. Rosalia? Ancient.

[Edited on 8-12-2006 by Minnow]

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minnow
Hummmm? I am leaning more towards agreeing with you Bruce than not. Otherwise, you could just claim the boat was the Mexicans, then I would only need a fishing license and not a boat permit. I am going to call pesca in SD tomorrow and see what they say.

Ever check out some of the boats in the impound at the CERESO south of Sta. Rosalia? Ancient.

[Edited on 8-12-2006 by Minnow]

yes I knew some of the ex owners of some of those. they will stay there until they rot. :lol:

They might, but it ain't legal

Dave - 12-7-2006 at 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
what they need to watch for now is if they own any thing in Mexico the PROFEPA Will seize it in Lu of the pending fine. also there could be criminal charges filed.

Your home,everything in it and other personal property is off limits unless they could find evidence of a continuing criminal enterprise. They might could seize a vehicle if it was used to tow the boat...Maybe.

If I were concerned I'd run get an Amparo.

They would sooner arrest you. Then you couldn't run.

Right, DOG?

Minnow - 12-7-2006 at 06:43 PM

I think Bruce was refering to paying the 25 million peso fine. How far would they go to collect that? I would bet any property would be far game.

Bruce R Leech - 12-7-2006 at 06:55 PM

Minnow is right and they don't need to wait to get a judgment. they can take possession before the fact and hold the property until hell freezes over.

Don Alley - 12-7-2006 at 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
I would like to hear some suggestions from this group about boardings when the individuals look suspicious.....no uniforms and no markings on the boat even though they say they are Mexican officials. What should you do?

Then you run. I am not aware of any attempts in the Loreto area to inspect or board boats, except at the marina, or at sea in a clearly marked "Guardparque" boat with officials in agency shirts with identification which they have immediately proffered, as if they are aware of your concerns. I

f they don't take those steps, run, and if you chose wrong, get an attorney, I guess.

oxxo - 12-7-2006 at 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
I am not aware of any attempts in the Loreto area to inspect or board boats, except at the marina, or at sea in a clearly marked "Guardparque" boat with officials in agency shirts with identification which they have immediately proffered, as if they are aware of your concerns.

Good, I don't have a problem with that, they are welcome on my boat anytime, just like the US Coast Guard. I have nothing to hide. I have never encountered these PROFECA folks so I'm glad you were able to give a description of their identification.

It is the 5 unshaven guys in the panga named Pendejo that are going to have a tough time getting aboard my boat without a struggle. I can't out run a panga, so if they have guns, I'm dog food - that's when I get out the flare gun.

4baja - 12-8-2006 at 07:09 AM

if there is any fishing gear on board the boat then everybody on board must have a fishing license. you must have a boat permit. it is illegal to take shells of any kind and of course shell fish, lobster, crab and cabria. spearfishing is legal but not in the protected parks and yes you need a fishing license to do so. fishing from shore does not require a license but i would carry one anyway. my boat can out :coolup:

run those pangas and if i cant identify whos comeing at me then thell have to catch me.

capn.sharky - 12-8-2006 at 09:10 AM

When they appear and pay their fine they will have their boats returned to them. If they don't appear, the boats are taken to La Paz and destroyed. They do not usually keep the boats as it is not policy of Profepa. I have found Profepa to be very reasonable. Their big mistake was not following them back to the office in the marina. As mentioned above, we usually get half the story on these things. They have only four guys to patrol the entire Park. The Park service has another five or six.

boat

lewm - 12-8-2006 at 11:19 AM

I too, would like to hear the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey, says. Apparently they were officials. They certainly took command when they sent out a posse to capture these law breakers.

Pescador - 12-8-2006 at 11:34 AM

After fishing several of the governor's Cup Tournaments, we had the law explained very clearly as to Mexican Nationals and Fishing Licenses. When a Mexican National is commercial fishing he or she does not need to have a license in possession, but when they are sport fishing, they in fact, do need to have a license in possession. So those of us who have taken our Mexican friends fishing in the past need to take note, if you are sport fishing, everyone needs to have a license in their possession or the boat could be confiscated.

howat - 12-8-2006 at 02:46 PM

The proposed fine is quoted at $2,500,000 pesos. If there are about 10 pesos to the dollar my math says that's a $250,000 fine. Isn't that a little steep? I'd guess $250 or $2500 would be more likely.

HH

[Edited on 12-8-2006 by howat]

vandenberg - 12-8-2006 at 03:20 PM

Decimal point in the wrong spot ?? :biggrin:

El Comadante Loco - 12-8-2006 at 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by howat
Why the sympathy for these poachers? For over twenty years i've listen to stories or witnessed in disgust gringos taking shellfish illegally and over limits of fish all over baja with no fear of reprisal. You would think this mexican resource was their god-given right. The nerve of these lawbreakers. Finally the mexican government is doing something constructive about it. Hope PROFEPA keeps up the good work and takes all their boats and gear.

HH

Certainly the purpose of my post was not to seek sympathy.
I am pleased to report that the "poachers", after about a month, yesterday resloved their fine with PROFEPA. Yes they did have shells that were empty and a lobster but no spearguns which are a no no. What complicated this case was that they did follow the agents as directed. The fine paid was $1,400 dollars for each boat which have now been released.
This has been a costly but valuable lesson for all to learn from. The "poachers' realize/admit their illeagal activity that will ot be repeated and are Ok with the fine. It could have been worse......
One more thing a couple of years ago we ran into several PORFEPA agents about 25 miles up Matomi wash. They were friendly but asked why were there and if we were an off road touring business....

Thanks to all who responded...

Bruce R Leech - 12-8-2006 at 05:37 PM

all is well that ends well. we have all learned from this. after all that is what the Nomad Forum is all about. :bounce:

Minnow - 12-8-2006 at 05:50 PM

Thanks for the final word. After all is said and done, it seems a reasonable fine. If they would have just followed the "OFFICIALS". The fine probably would have been even less. I remember the last time I ran from the cops in the US. Oh, wait a second, that was Rodney King. :biggrin:

JZ - 12-9-2006 at 01:08 PM

I think that is a very just end.

To all those who said they got what they deserved when it was speculated the boats were taken permanently, I think you are absolutely nuts. I hope you don't ever break a simple rule some day and have the Mexican law come down on you with an extremely harsh punishment. And I'm sure you haven't done something in your past either. I'm all for a fine and punishment, just make it reasonable to the offense.

The fact that some of you were glad fellow Baja explorers could have their boats taken makes me sick to my stomach. The actual outcome shows many of you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

And no, I've never done what these fellows did here, and I'm not condoning those acts.

[Edited on 12-9-2006 by JZ]

Cypress - 12-9-2006 at 01:31 PM

Regarding boat seizures etc. as a result of violating various laws. No problem as long as the public is well advised, educated, informed of the laws and the penalties and the penalty is administered to "All" of those who break them. :tumble:

rts551 - 12-9-2006 at 02:25 PM

Didn't anyone notice the Lobster on board. I think we all know they are prohibited and you take your chances.

rts551 - 12-9-2006 at 02:32 PM

Punta Abreojos - October

Local coop fisherman caught lobster poachers (mexican nationals from the south). Panga was burned on the beach, 200hp Yamaha and all.

Packoderm - 12-9-2006 at 02:37 PM

JZ, do you mean having them come down hard on you for something like taking sand dollars or taking a shell that could possibly house a hermit crab? I would imagine that pretty much all of us are guilty of those crimes.

bajalou - 12-9-2006 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Regarding boat seizures etc. as a result of violating various laws. No problem as long as the public is well advised, educated, informed of the laws and the penalties and the penalty is administered to "All" of those who break them. :tumble:

I've never heard of a place that "I didn't now the law" got you out of anything the arresting official thought was important. Throughout the US it is every person's obligation to know the law and I don't see large campaigns to educate everyone there.

If you're caught smuggling into Mexico by car, your vehicle is impounded till you pay the fine. If you don't pay it, they will start looking for any property you have in Mexico to seize.

Cypress - 12-9-2006 at 03:24 PM

bajalou! Good point!! :bounce:

Minnow - 12-9-2006 at 03:31 PM

JZ, I went back and reread every post. I really don't see where anyone was saying that they SHOULD have all their boats and property seized. Please elaborate. Name names if you must. Quotes work for me.

JZ - 12-9-2006 at 04:17 PM

You know who you are. I just wonder if you'll have the same hard a$$ attitudes if you, your kids, or grand kids visiting you in Mexico ever get in to a pinch.

JZ------

Barry A. - 12-9-2006 at 04:53 PM

-----What you refer to as "hard a$$ attitudes" is what makes the "rule of law" work, so I certainly hope that one would feel the same if it were their own kids, or grand kids.

Surely you are not inferring that one would cut some slack to their own kin, and thereby corrupt them, are you?? If you are, then you are corrupt yourself and are "part of the problem, not part of the solution", and teaching your kin to be just like you are.

When will we learn???

JZ - 12-9-2006 at 05:32 PM

That's what I'm saying. I think some of these tough guys will be singing a different tune when it becomes personal. Then they will be wondering why the punishment isn't in reasonable propotion to the crime.

El Comadante Loco - 12-9-2006 at 06:48 PM

I hope that no one ever gets nto trouble in Baja. I am sure that none of us have every broken any law in the states or Baja. I know I have and as a result spent four very hard, cold and hungry nights in Baja jail. I was very young , stupid and drinking way to much beer. We could not get out until we had an audiance with the Comandate who was out for four days. He told us that we would pay a fine of $ 43.00 and if we did not agree it would take 3-4 months before we could see a judge. We gadly paid, got the car back but only things missing was the cooler and the beer. I learned and resloved never to it again in public and have not....
Now for the end of the boat seizures. My friends were referred by Vagaboudos to an attorney in La Paz who truned out to be worse than PROFEPA and charged them $3,000 for doing NOTHING!!!!!

Bruce R Leech - 12-9-2006 at 06:51 PM

if you brake the law you take your chances. some get caught and some don't some learn from there mistakes and some don't . I think we have all been there and done that. but for me it is better to stay within the law and hope for the best. I was stupid win I was younger but fortunately I survived and have gotten wiser with age.

vandenberg - 12-9-2006 at 07:12 PM

Quote:

Now for the end of the boat seizures. My friends were referred by Vagaboudos to an attorney in La Paz who truned out to be worse than PROFEPA and charged them $3,000 for doing NOTHING!!!!!

Not much different then home. :lol:

Barry A. - 12-9-2006 at 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
if you brake the law you take your chances. some get caught and some don't some learn from there mistakes and some don't . I think we have all been there and done that. but for me it is better to stay within the law and hope for the best. I was stupid win I was younger but fortunately I survived and have gotten wiser with age.

Bruce----ain't THAT the truth----for all of us, hopefully.

JZ - 12-9-2006 at 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
I was stupid win I was younger but fortunately I survived and have gotten wiser with age.

Yeah, that's the point exactly. I think there are a lot of people like that on this board. What I don't get is everyone slamming the ones who didn't get lucky. I think there's a good bit of hypocrisy going around.

Bruce R Leech - 12-9-2006 at 07:54 PM

we weren't always Lucky ether that is why we got wiser. you cant tell these people not to do those things , they just wont listen but they learn the hard way just like I did. in my opinion these people got lucky, real lucky compared to what could have happened. and my guess is they wont get cough with those things on there boat again and they might even read the rules on boating and fishing in Mexico.

Don Alley - 12-9-2006 at 08:57 PM

OK, here's some questions for knowledgable, law abiding fishermen:

How many hooks are allowed on your "sabaki" baitfishing rig?

OK, now that you have your live bait, how many cabrilla are you allowed to catch with them? How many yellowtail?

You catch a giant squid. Can you use it for bait?

Flyfishers: Can you chum fish close to the boat to cast to?

A man catches, and keeps, one sailfish, two dorado and a cabrilla. Legal?

Score 100%, or you can have your boat siezed until you pay a fine. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. :biggrin:

For answers and surprises see:
http://www.mexfish.com/mexi/mexi/af000806/af000806.htm

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by Don Alley]

Again Bruce, RIGHT ON!!!!

Barry A. - 12-9-2006 at 09:45 PM

I won't go into any details but I spent several nights in the Tijuana slammer back in my youth, and that taught me a great deal-----and they were good lessons. Never, I mean Never, mess with the "officials", even if you KNOW you are right-----go with the flow and learn from your experiences, and then take the consequences of your actions. (But NEVER pay mordida!!!)

Phil C - 12-9-2006 at 09:57 PM

Don, what did you discover about kayak fishing?

Diver - 12-9-2006 at 10:39 PM

Kayaks are boats; same rules apply.
They need to be licensed as do you if you are carrying a fishing pole or spear gun. With or without fish in the boat.
If you have two people in the kayak and only one pole, you still both need fish licenses.

.

fishbuck - 12-9-2006 at 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
OK, here's some questions for knowledgable, law abiding fishermen:

How many hooks are allowed on your "sabaki" baitfishing rig?

OK, now that you have your live bait, how many cabrilla are you allowed to catch with them? How many yellowtail?

You catch a giant squid. Can you use it for bait?

Flyfishers: Can you chum fish close to the boat to cast to?

A man catches, and keeps, one sailfish, two dorado and a cabrilla. Legal?

Score 100%, or you can have your boat siezed until you pay a fine. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. :biggrin:

For answers and surprises see:
http://www.mexfish.com/mexi/mexi/af000806/af000806.htm

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by Don Alley]

1. 4 hooks
2. 5 cabrilla, 5 yellowtail
3. No. A squid is technically a mollusk and not a legal sportfishing catch.
4. No. live bait must be on a hook if placed in the water.
5. No. 1 billfish counts as 5 fish toward a 10 fish limit and 2 dorado count as 5 fish also.

Question.
How many fish are allowed to be caught on live bait?

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by fishbuck]

Iflyfish - 12-10-2006 at 12:35 AM

Fishbuck,,

Check your u2u.

Thanks,

Iflyfish

Don Alley - 12-10-2006 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck

1. 4 hooks
2. 5 cabrilla, 5 yellowtail
3. No. A squid is technically a mollusk and not a legal sportfishing catch.
4. No. live bait must be on a hook if placed in the water.
5. No. 1 billfish counts as 5 fish toward a 10 fish limit and 2 dorado count as 5 fish also.

Question.
How many fish are allowed to be caught on live bait?

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by fishbuck]

Acording to Kira's article, only 2 fish can be caught using live bait, so the answer to #2 is two fish total. But nobody knows that. Maybe Kira and his source are wrong? But we can bet our boats on it. :lol:

Don Alley - 12-10-2006 at 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil C
Don, what did you discover about kayak fishing?

Well, I've always known that I needed a license for my fishing yak, and it's been licensed for the last three years. As far as I know the requirement for registration and/or title is only a local requirement although they say the order comes from La Paz so who knows. But I've talked to her twice and she seems to want to help but her boss says no.

You can get these licenses at numerous places in San Diego and they just put "kayak" and the length and color on it.

This time of year it's kinda windy so no rush, but I'll maybe get a licensed mailed down from California (hauling coals to Newcastle!) and I may attempt to register the kayak in Mexico.

vandenberg - 12-10-2006 at 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck

Question.
How many fish are allowed to be caught on live bait?

[Edited on 12-10-2006 by fishbuck]

Not true, since we caught the other 8 with jigs and took the left over bait home for the cat.

fishbuck - 12-10-2006 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley

Quote:

Opps! I just lost my boat. What I meant to say was I caught two with live bait and the other eight with dead bait and jigs. And I promise I didn't use live bait even though I still have some in my bait tank. I'm saving those for tomorrow.

Don Alley - 12-10-2006 at 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
Opps! I just lost my boat. What I meant to say was I caught two with live bait and the other eight with dead bait and jigs. And I promise I didn't use live bait even though I still have some in my bait tank. I'm saving those for tomorrow.

OK, after you catch your two legal "live bait" fish, you have to either quit fishing, or kill your remaining live bait. So you don't get caught with three fish and live bait on the boat. And, of course, no throwing your remaining live bait overboard; that would be chumming. :lol:

MICK - 12-10-2006 at 07:21 PM

OK, so what happens to all the people who wisit Shell Beach (Island) I'm sure they don't remove anything. I know I haven't. What who happen if the officials just stopped everyone who came off the beach? They would have way to many vehicles to count.
Just a thought.
Mick

Pescador - 12-10-2006 at 07:56 PM

Gene Kira's article is really interesting in light of the fishing tournament that was held in Santa Rosalia where there was a squid division that several of us participated in and the local PESCA man was one of the officials. :no:

Don Alley - 12-10-2006 at 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Gene Kira's article is really interesting in light of the fishing tournament that was held in Santa Rosalia where there was a squid division that several of us participated in and the local PESCA man was one of the officials. :no:

From the regulations:

Quote:

This fishing license allows to capture only fin fish. It does not allow to capture any mollusks or crustaceans, and their capture by anyone is strictly prohibited.

synch - 12-11-2006 at 10:43 AM

Let's see if I've got this right;
in Mexico the locals think nothing of fishing licenses but when gringos take dead shells they must pay $1400.00?

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
Certainly the purpose of my post was not to seek sympathy.
I am pleased to report that the "poachers", after about a month, yesterday resloved their fine with PROFEPA. Yes they did have shells that were empty and a lobster but no spearguns which are a no no. What complicated this case was that they did follow the agents as directed. The fine paid was $1,400 dollars for each boat which have now been released.
This has been a costly but valuable lesson for all to learn from. The "poachers' realize/admit their illeagal activity that will ot be repeated and are Ok with the fine. It could have been worse......
One more thing a couple of years ago we ran into several PORFEPA agents about 25 miles up Matomi wash. They were friendly but asked why were there and if we were an off road touring business....

Thanks to all who responded...

Synch------

Barry A. - 12-11-2006 at 10:58 AM

---which brings us back to, "when in Mexico, go with the flow", I suppose. :?:

Osprey - 12-11-2006 at 11:10 AM

I'll play. Bonus question: "If 2 dorado count as 1 billfish, what does 1 dorado count for?"

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 11:40 AM

One dorado counts for a sad fishing trip.

Bruce R Leech - 12-11-2006 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by synch
Let's see if I've got this right;
in Mexico the locals think nothing of fishing licenses but when gringos take dead shells they must pay $1400.00?

Quote:

the law is the same for Mexicans and Gringos. there are more Mexicans fined than foreigners.

why is it that a lot of people think there are 2 sets of laws in Mexico? it just isn't so. some times enforcement may differ but the rules are the same.

vandenberg - 12-11-2006 at 12:02 PM

Enforcement may differ but rules are the same :lol:

Bruce,
You should be on stage.

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 12:13 PM

Two sets of laws? Regarding shellfish? As I understand it, a person that has Mexican citizenship can harvest shrimp, crabs, clams, lobsters, take sea shells, etc. but it's illegal for a non-citizen to do so. :?:

Minnow - 12-11-2006 at 01:58 PM

One must remember, In Mexico the rule of law is but a vague point of refrence. It's enforcement is subjective to the official who it concerns. That is the flaw of Napoleonic code.

Bruce R Leech - 12-11-2006 at 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Two sets of laws? Regarding shellfish? As I understand it, a person that has Mexican citizenship can harvest shrimp, crabs, clams, lobsters, take sea shells, etc. but it's illegal for a non-citizen to do so. :?:

no they cant only if they get a commercial permit for each species and only during the season. if they don't have it they get the same punishment as you or I.

I know several Mexicans that have had there boats an equipment taken.

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 03:32 PM

A commercial permit to harvest a bucket of clams? A crab or two?

Does that also apply to catching live bait with a trap or cast net?

Hook - 12-11-2006 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Enforcement may differ but rules are the same :lol:

Bruce,
You should be on stage.

No, he should be in the US Congress. :lol:

Don Alley - 12-11-2006 at 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
A commercial permit to harvest a bucket of clams? A crab or two?

Does that also apply to catching live bait with a trap or cast net?

Recently announced in Loreto: Panga captains may not use cast nets to gather "sardinias" as bait for their clients. They must instead use a member of the bait co-op to catch the bait for them.

Now I don't know what the law is with cast nets except that only Mexicans can use them. But I've seen them giving gringos lessons down at the marina, in company of the Port Captain. :biggrin:

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 04:11 PM

Bait co-op?? :?:

mtgoat666 - 12-11-2006 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by synch
Let's see if I've got this right;
in Mexico the locals think nothing of fishing licenses but when gringos take dead shells they must pay $1400.00?

I've been places in Mexico and been told it is illegal to collect sea shells.
In the US on many Federal lands it is also illegal to collect sea shells.
Anyways, all most people do with the shells is throw them in the back yard after they lug them home, so why not leave them at the beach?
You would get more karma brownie points if you spent your time picking up trash at the beach instead of stealing houses from hermit crabs.

Cypress - 12-11-2006 at 04:44 PM

I fully agree with mtgoat666's sentiments about hauling shells home from the beach and leaving assorted pieces of trash behind. :spingrin: