BajaNomad - Low impact baja camping

Low impact baja camping

Ron_Perry - 8-23-2009 at 06:17 AM

Hi folks, I would like to share what I feel are a few good ideas to reduce our impact of camping in baja. Four years ago, my daughter and I spent 3 weeks camped out, surfing on the East Cape, at 9 Palms. We collected all of our garbage, and at the end, took our trash to the "city dumps" on the Palo Escopeta road. This road travels from San Jose del Cabo, to Vinorama on the East Cape. I believe this dump serves all of the Los Cabos area.
What I saw at this dump was the worst sight I have ever seen in Baja, or anywhere else in my life. As far as my eyes could see, trash blowing in every direction, with no attempt to bury or recycle. Out of sight, out of mind, in the middle of the desert. I am not slamming the Mexican government, just trying to do my part in helping.
Next year, the four in our camping party did not buy anything that could not be recycled (Pacifico beer) , or burned. We bought nothing in glass, and nothing in cans. It sounds difficult, but was not, as we have done this for three years straight. At our campsite, I set up a separate fire pit for burning of our trash. What we came home to the U.S. with was a few glass bottles, and about 50 Pacifico bottle tops.
I am not sure how much better burning is compared to having the trash blowing around indefinitely, but this idea seems to reduce the amount trash for us overall.
The next suggestion, and a ugly one at that, is what to do with human waste when camping in baja. What alot of folks do, and I have in the past, is walk back into the ravine behind your campsite and do your dirty business. For an area such a Nine Palms, that gets alot of human pressure, it is a bad idea. The earth is very hard, and becomes difficult to bury your waste.
Our solution, which takes effort, is to use a porty poty and a five gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid. We have the toilet in a small tent, along with a large plastic tub. Also in the tent is a one or two gallon jug for men to pee in.
When the toilet starts to get full, I transfer it to the five gallon bucket. When both the bucket and porti poty get full, I put in in the plastic tub, throw it in the car, and head up the Palo Escopeta road. On this road I have found quiet, remote areas with soft earth. I dig a pit and dispose of our waste. I have gone back to the same area and have not have animals dig up our waste.
Like our burning of garbage, disposing of our waste this way may not be the best idea, but I believe is a big improvement of using the beach area.
I have spent over 30 years camping baja, love it, and I hope these ideas help. Ron

Russ - 8-23-2009 at 06:32 AM

Some good ideas. Got me thinking and I found this little tent. http://www.nwbackpack.com/products/stansport_cabana_privacy_...
Sure beats going out to the snake pit for some privacy.

David K - 8-23-2009 at 06:34 AM

"What I saw at this dump was the worst sight I have ever seen in Baja, or anywhere else in my life. As far as my eyes could see, trash blowing in every direction, with no attempt to bury or recycle. Out of sight, out of mind, in the middle of the desert. I am not slamming the Mexican government, just trying to do my part in helping."

This is all too common in many Baja towns... There are places trying to improve on this, however.

KAT54 - 8-23-2009 at 06:42 AM

Sorry Ron dumping your waste in a hole in the desert is NOT low-impact.
It is the worst thing you could do.
You need to take your waste to a dumping station where it can be treated.
Someone owns the land you are dumping at weather you think so or not.
Can I come to your house and dig a hole in your back yard for my waste?
Think about this.

jimgrms - 8-23-2009 at 06:49 AM

In viet nam we used cans and burned our waste when there were no disposil facilities available just a little diesel fuel will reduce it to ashes

[Edited on 8-23-2009 by jimgrms]

David K - 8-23-2009 at 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
Sorry Ron dumping your waste in a hole in the desert is NOT low-impact.
It is the worst thing you could do.
You need to take your waste to a dumping station where it can be treated.
Someone owns the land you are dumping at weather you think so or not.
Can I come to your house and dig a hole in your back yard for my waste?
Think about this.

Have you ever camped? Do the coyotes and cows in Baja go to a dump station? I think some appreciation should be shown for Ron's concern about the terrible Mexican habit of throwing garbage in the desert.

shari - 8-23-2009 at 10:17 AM

thank you for your post Ron...perhaps it will inspire others to think about this issue and even act on it....it would be fantastic if every camper/visitor to baja would do even a little bit to reduce their impact.
It isnt all that difficult...with a little thought and organization, it is easy. I love your idea to not buy things that arent recyclable.

I would love to see visitors buy more locally...fresh fruit, veggies, meats, fish without packaging. I am always amazed at the amount of garbage our guests leave behind...literally thousands of plastic water bottles, plastic packaging from food they bring from costco etc.

Our rentals all have 5 gallon drinking water jugs and i ask that people do not bring the little bottles...but they still do.

we had a spanish immersion group of teenagers here for a week and part of their course was low impact camping...the kids had to pack and bring back to the states in their packs all garbage they produced so they were very picky what they bought when they went to the store...it was a very enlightening process indeed.

thank you for your thoughtfullness ron and a good idea for a post.

KAT54 - 8-23-2009 at 10:18 AM

David K low impact camping means you haul out your trash.
Human waste that is disposed in a hole in the desert is not low impact.
I am sure you would not someone come to your back yard and dig a hole for their motorhome or trailer human waste would you?
There are dump stations for campers in baja.
You need to make an effort to find them.
Only the lazy and ignorant would dump their human waste in the desert.

Hook - 8-23-2009 at 10:29 AM

Quote:

Only the lazy and ignorant would dump their human waste in the desert.

Thank you for your opinion of most all the local residents of Baja. That is the type of dump that most all communities set up.

Yeah, Ron, cart around your three weeks worth of waste till you hit the border. :rolleyes:

Get REAL, Kat.

KAT54 - 8-23-2009 at 10:34 AM

What do you do with your waste in a National Forest in the USA?
Answer that.

Paulina - 8-23-2009 at 10:46 AM

"How to Sh*t in the Woods" an enviornmentally friendly approach to a lost art. By Kathleen Meyer.

Everyone who has ever felt the urge while outdoors should read this book.

Chaper 2, Digging the hole. Why and how and where to dig an environmentally sound hole.

http://www.kathleeninthewoods.com/abtbooks.htm

Do a googleseach on the book title and you will find the table of contents, plus more.

It can be done.

P<*)))>{

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
What do you do with your waste in a National Forest in the USA?
Answer that.

I bury it, just like in Baja, or any other remote place. (human waste, that is, NOT trash------that I haul out, always!!!)

It only becomes a problem if the area is heavily used by many humans----use common sense and go the extra mile to find an unused location, out of a direct watercourse, and bury all your human waste and paper out of compassion for the next human that happens along.

-----and peeing in the wilderness is NOT a problem---just do it.

-----like David says, look to the animals for guidance, and then improve on it by burying it. If I had to jump thru the hoops that KAT54 proposes, I would quit camping altogether.

----but I certainly applaud Ron for his ideas, and that IS a better way.

Barry

[Edited on 8-23-2009 by Barry A.]

woody with a view - 8-23-2009 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
David K low impact camping means you haul out your trash.
Human waste that is disposed in a hole in the desert is not low impact.
I am sure you would not someone come to your back yard and dig a hole for their motorhome or trailer human waste would you?
There are dump stations for campers in baja.
You need to make an effort to find them.
Only the lazy and ignorant would dump their human waste in the desert.

i think KAT thinks "camping" refers to a motorhome/trailer setup. what about tent camping or just laying yourself on the beach for the night? it would be ignorant to dump your motorhome waste in a hole.

BTW, most locals dig a hole about 8'deep, surround it on 4 sides with plywood but sometimes only 3 sides and proceed to "dump" for years.

KAT54 - 8-23-2009 at 11:31 AM

"I bury it, just like in Baja" well Barry A that is a $5000 fine.
Hope next time you get caught.
Education is the only thing that will change this disrespect of our neighbors to the south.
You guys think just because you are in Mexico you can do anything you want.
After all you are going back after vacation anyway.
And, what does one little hole full of human waste really hurt?
Again, would you allow anyone to dump in your back yard?
The arrogance of you all.

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
"I bury it, just like in Baja" well Barry A that is a $5000 fine.
Hope next time you get caught.
Education is the only thing that will change this disrespect of our neighbors to the south.
You guys think just because you are in Mexico you can do anything you want.
After all you are going back after vacation anyway.
And, what does one little hole full of human waste really hurt?
Again, would you allow anyone to dump in your back yard?
The arrogance of you all.

Kat----------where are you COMING FROM????? I was a permanent LE Ranger for US Forest Service, National Park Service, and the Bureau of Land Management and there was NO FINE at all for disposing of your human waste in a hole (NOT including the contents of a "holding tank", which I have never had----THAT is illegal). Only in heavily used areas is there ANY RULES for disposal of human waste for back country camping (not RV's).

Your strong statement is "out there" it seems to me, un-informed, and very arrogant!!! (speaking of arrogant) :?:

Barry

mtgoat666 - 8-23-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Barry

barry, i have seen many heavily used camp sites where a trip into the bushes is like walking in a mine field. just because it may be legal does not mean it is pleasant to camp at a heavily used site after you have been there and left a loaf along with 300 previous visitors. yuck!
in the desert, things biodegrade very slowly, for instance paper often takes many years to decades to degrade
leave no trace!
pack it in pack it out!
yes we can!

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 12:05 PM

Mt. Goat--------you are totally correct, but I respectfully ask you to go back and read my posts-------I specifically exempted "heavily used areas" from my statements. It seemed to me that Kat was referring to back country camping in general, as many of us do in Baja, and to that reference I thought/think that his/her statements are extreme, mis-leading, and unreasonable.

Anyplace in the USA that is a "designated camp site/area"(i.e. "heavily used") has rules for the disposal of waste, for the reasons you so correctly point out. Not so in the remote, and wild areas where camping is a rarity, but where folks like me tend to camp.

In Baja, where the rules for camping are lacking, one has to use common sense and not contribute to a problem that obviously may be developing, like you say.

The casual dumping of "holding tanks" is alway illegal and/or insensitive, for obvious reasons, and no thinking person would do that unless some type of emergency, and then they should make an effort to clean up the mess, if possible.

Your points are very well taken, tho.

Barry

KAT54 - 8-23-2009 at 12:50 PM

You guys need to read the original post.
Three weeks two people in five gallon buckets.
Let us say three days for a bucket.
That is seven buckets or 35 gallons.
That is alot of human waste to bury.
Now, total all the visitors that winter in baja.
Low impact, I think not.

Packoderm - 8-23-2009 at 01:26 PM

Just discreetly dump it down a Pemex toilet. There's sure to be some sort of huge problem with that as well, but I've done it with my travel pee can with no problems.
Baja dump stations:
http://www.sanidumps.com/sanidumps_mex.php?id=67
http://www.sanidumps.com/sanidumps_mex.php?id=68

Easy solution

jeans - 8-23-2009 at 01:41 PM

The Porta Potty.

Took it everywhere...it never leaked...never smelled. The "holding tank" was large enough to hold several days worth of #2. It easily detached & fit in a large beach bag. Take it into a restroom & poured it in the toilet....

Flush.....Bye Bye

Tried to show a pic...didn't work...here it is if you want to see a similar one

http://www.rei.com/zoom/759745.jpg/150

[Edited on 8-23-2009 by jeans]

MY LOW IMPACT CRAPPER WAS HERE

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-23-2009 at 01:44 PM

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
You guys need to read the original post.
Three weeks two people in five gallon buckets.
Let us say three days for a bucket.
That is seven buckets or 35 gallons.
That is alot of human waste to bury.
Now, total all the visitors that winter in baja.
Low impact, I think not.

I still question your assumptions and conclusions here---------when 4 of us canoed the Green River (Green River, Ut to the confluence with the Colorado River) we were "on the river" for 10 total days. We had one (1) 5 gal. bucket for our adventure and it easily contained the human-waste for the entire trip (10 days x 4 adults)----and yes, we took it with us (as required by the BLM/NPS) on the jet-boat pickup back to Moab, Ut. and disposed of the contents in an "approved" dump-site---no problem. We also hauled out ALL our trash, which was no small task being in two 17 foot canoes.

I think that Ron's idea is a good one, and fills the bill, so to speak.

When you make things so difficult to comply with, and possibly unreasonable, people naturally don't comply. I would much rather simplify things, and gain some compliance--------I think that Ron's ideas are workable, admirable, and I am very glad he posted this Thread.

Tho it is slowly being changed and improved, many back country sites within the USA National Park System (etc.) have the old-type pit toilets where litterally thousands of gallons of untreated sewage is deposited directly into the ground each year (no "vaults")----------not good, but it worked for years, especially in a desert environment out of water-courses.

I won't go into the math of animals depositing their affluent on the ground------it would stagger one's imagination!!!!

I believe that you are exagerating the problem, and thereby inviting non-compliance, tho I am positive you mean well.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 8-23-2009 at 01:49 PM

More importantly, when in hotel pools, how many Nomads pee in the pool vs getting out to pee in the facilities?

I already know that all of you pee when swimming in ocean.

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 01:58 PM

Good God, Goat--------I have NEVER done that!!!!! GROSS!!!!!!

-------what ARE you thinking??????

Barry

Ron_Perry - 8-23-2009 at 02:24 PM

Hi again, thanks for the comments, pro and con.
A few items I forgot. One is I usually buy two 5 gallon water bottles that are sold at most small markets, along with a pump made for these bottles. Maybe two one gallon water jugs with screw type lids for the ride down. Refill the gallon jugs for a quick rinse after surfing, or a quick shower. This beats several small plastic container for a trip.
I also use a 5 gallon propane bottle to cook with, and for light at night. I use a stove and small grill for fish. The small propane bottles I don't think are recyclable.
About the burying of waste. Are there any waste disposal sites in Baja? As in most parks, and marinas in the U.S.? I cannot remember seeing any in Baja.
I would guess that for two people in three weeks, the waste would add up to about 18 gallons. The idea of dumping waste at a Pemex sounds like an idea, but are the waste treatment plants in Baja sufficient? The river draining into the lagoon at San Jose del Cabo always smell...questionable.
I am not sure the what the exact right answer is, but my feeling is that completely burying waste at an isolated site may be a good solution, compared to using the campground site. Thanks again for the comments, Ron

Curt63 - 8-23-2009 at 02:42 PM

The small propane cylinders are refillable at a cost of about 40 cents. Harbor Freight sells the little gizmo that attaches to a 5 Gal. Propane tank. Works like a charm, but some leak.

irenemm - 8-23-2009 at 02:43 PM

do you know what the honey trucks do with the waste that they take out of septic tanks all over baja?
guess what they take it to the dump and just dump it. tell me where they have the waste plants here in baja.
when they clean out septic we have 4 they have taken the waste to the city dump.
no waste stations at least from Ensenada until maybe the next state baja sur somewhere in cabo? Maybe

Paulina - 8-23-2009 at 02:51 PM

In days of old
When knights were bold
And toilets weren't invented,
They left their load
Along the road
And walked off so contented.

A childhood ditty; author unknown

Taken from the book I mentioned above;

"The ocean is quite capable of breaking down a few turds....specially safe when tossed into a moving, deep water column of water of 12 feet or more....it's only sensible to stay away from small bays, harbors and beaches where sludge might wash ashore before breaking up..."

It can be done.

P<*)))>{

Crusoe - 8-23-2009 at 03:24 PM

Another approach that works well.....During the 1960's when we use to run alot of the big rivers in the West ( before permits were required) there was no control over the pooping scene and what would happen to the human waste. Many of the nice desert beaches and overnight spots were getting slammed hard! We instructors at the Colorado Outward Bound School used a method for #2 waste that turnred out to be very successful.... We hauled alot of old newspapers, in a support raft, and everyone was required to crap on top of it and roll it up and fold it and deposit it in an old steel millitary surplus amo box, that the lid coud be dogged down and was water proof. As well, folks were required to burn their toilet paper on the spot. It takes 20 years for paper to decpmpose in a desert atmosphere. At the end of each trip everyone helped dumping the rotten cargo into huge pile near a determined dump site. A couple of gallons of diesel was poured on and then torched. Things were raked up and then mixxed with a couple of bags of compost soil. We have used this system in Baja alot also. Nowdays campers need to get creative. There is just to many of us. ++C++ :light:

vgabndo - 8-23-2009 at 03:46 PM

Crusoe I think you have the right ideas. Perhaps I'm spoiled, but I just never find it necessary to camp ANYWHERE that is so over-run with humans that their waste becomes a problem. I wouldn't call that camping. I cannot think of a time I have left a deposit in Baja that I had the slightest worry that that organic material was ever going to be a problem for another person or the environment.

Now if you want to get me fired-up...lets talk abut the slack mouthed, watery-eyed, empty headed marooons who throw their bottles of urine all along the sides of I-5 up here! :fire:

[Edited on 8-23-2009 by vgabndo]

Packoderm - 8-23-2009 at 04:01 PM

Perhaps the only thing that will work to this guy's satisfaction would be to place each deposit of feces (along with the one square of biodegradable toilet paper) into reusable receptacles, bring it all back across the border, and then add the contents to a special purpose compost pile of which contents would be later used as a soil supplement for garden plants of the non-consumption variety. If you really want to get into it, you could install a marine type Electro-San waste processing unit in your truck or van, but that uses electricity and salt water which is irresponsible. Perhaps some outdoor adventure outfitting store might sell some specially designed food that will lower your daily feces output to an easily manageable one small pellet per day. Perhaps it would benefit to use a special feces collection unit that effectively seals the buttocks surface area from the atmosphere and run the resulting gasses through a special filter unit of which cartridges cost $49.99 apiece. This may all be the responsible thing to do, but it would seem that your entire day would be dedicated to personal sewage containment leaving little time for hiking and other activities.

woody with a view - 8-23-2009 at 04:21 PM

and what about the poor coyotes? if nobody craps in a hole anymore, the scraggly critters will actually have to work for their dinner!

Bajahowodd - 8-23-2009 at 04:25 PM

What do fish do in the ocean?

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
What do fish do in the ocean?

Undoubtably the same thing as MtGoat does

(ohhhhh, that is a cheap shot-----sorry MtGoat)

:lol:

Barry

Crusoe - 8-23-2009 at 06:18 PM

In many of the sensitive areas(above timberline and at pristine and over- run alpine lakes) in the Natl. Parks, the Park Service, contracts out with a helicopter operator to haul out full 250lb. plastic containers full of poop from high country outhouses.They fly in an empty and it is exchanged by the back country rangers. There is one very close to the summit of the Grand Teton and boy does it stink. And here in Olympic Natl. Park they have a few as well. All is good until they lose a fully loaded one. This actually happened 2 years ago as the heli was taking off. He got about 150ft. up and his line let go and down came the Sh}T Bomb!!! Almost burrying the poor rangers. There was crap everywhere!! Took them weeks to clean it up. Yikes... :lol:

++C++

Barry A. - 8-23-2009 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
In many of the sensitive areas(above timberline and at pristine and over- run alpine lakes) in the Natl. Parks, the Park Service, contracts out with a helicopter operator to haul out full 250lb. plastic containers full of poop from high country outhouses.They fly in an empty and it is exchanged by the back country rangers. There is one very close to the summit of the Grand Teton and boy does it stink. And here in Olympic Natl. Park they have a few as well. All is good until they lose a fully loaded one. This actually happened 2 years ago as the heli was taking off. He got about 150ft. up and his line let go and down came the Sh}T Bomb!!! Almost burrying the poor rangers. There was crap everywhere!! Took them weeks to clean it up. Yikes... :lol:

++C++

I retired just in time to avoid that fun. :lol:

Barry

Bajaboy - 8-23-2009 at 06:25 PM

Low impact...I usually just squat a bit lower to the ground.... :lol:

Pacifico - 8-23-2009 at 07:51 PM

I can only imagine pulling into a military checkpoint and having the soldiers dig into one of the 5 gallon containers of crap!!! They would think you were a crazy.... :lol:

I think some of your intentions are good, just not realistic. Take a shovel and bury your waste - it's more than the animals do!!!

As far as burning waste with diesel for you tree huggers out there - doesn't the burning fuel hurt the environment in other ways???

David K - 8-23-2009 at 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Low impact...I usually just squat a bit lower to the ground.... :lol:

Zac... RIGHT ON!!! :lol:

wilderone - 8-25-2009 at 09:45 AM

To climb Mt. Whitney they issue bags that you crap in, double seal, and pack out. I did that - very effective. Could be used in conjunction with other methods. In isolated areas of Baja, when one craps in a hole once, covers it with a large rock and burns the toilet paper, then moves on, IMHO there is little effect. In heavily used beach campgrounds, where RVs dump in the bays and everyone is strewing their TP around and it stinks, yeah - something's gotta change and in that case, I think we should make every effort to not contribute to the situation, perhaps using a method suggested here. Once these issues are understood and people take personal responsibility, things will begin to change.

Crusoe - have you been to Lake Constance recently? I would love to see what the reforestation areas that I worked on look like now.

Crusoe - 8-25-2009 at 05:42 PM

Wilderone--Yes, I was at Lake Constance last August 1st for one night. It is such a pretty lake. The color of the water is unique unto itself. I have been their many times over the years.It doesn't get visited that often because of the steep and knarly and unimproved trail to access it. It is one of the (if not the steepest) trails in the Park. We use it as an overnight camp and access spot to climb Mt. Constance. Which is still very challanging and can be a dangerous climb.This last July 23rd there was a lighting strike on the ridge above the lake and unfortunately started a big fire. The fire is still burning to this day and the terrain is so steep that they cannot control it. Some big fire fighter expert pros came in from Calif. and went home with their tail between their legs and declared to just "let her burn". So now they are hitting it with a heli -water so the fire doesn't spread easterly and down to the settlement of Brinnon, Wa. which is close to where I live. You can follow the on Olympic Parks website and go to incidents N.W.. Sorry to say,but it could be possible your treeplanting and work coud be up in smoke. What year were you there? Thanx ++C++

Crusoe - 8-25-2009 at 06:54 PM

Wilderone---Just got off fire incident website (www.inciweb.org) and Constance fire is in active. Burned 350 acres. Too Bad! ++C++

Taco de Baja - 8-26-2009 at 07:31 AM

How about the Mexican practice of depositing their TP in a bucket beside the public and private toilets throughout the country? That TP ends up going to the local dump blows to hell and back across the desert. :barf:

This amounts to tons of fecal matter attached to the TP, plus the TP itself and is a lot more high impact than burying our #2 along with our TP while camping.

Paulina - 8-26-2009 at 07:41 AM

This past summer in Bahia, our neighbors to the north of us had company for over 2 weeks. There were over 20 people of all ages staying at the house. Every day we would see them walking out to the desert with a roll of t.p., no shovel. This happened at any time during the day or night.

When they finally left the desert looked like it had snowed. TP streemers were flying from bushes, cactus, caught under rocks. The wind had carried it off in both directions so that we had quite a bit of it behind our place as well. It was disgusting.

Never mind about the piles of trash they left or the diapers.

P<*)))>{

wilderone - 8-26-2009 at 09:31 AM

So sad to learn of the Dosewallips drainage fire. That area has huge old growth trees. supposed to be 1/2 mile SE of Lake Constance and spreading downslope, so maybe hasn't touched the area immediately around the Lake. I was there with a group about 12 years ago. Thousands of seedlings of several kinds were dropped in by helicopter. We dredged the lake for soil, mixed it with the existing hardpack and added peatmoss, then planted the seedlings. It rained every day and we worked in the rain, cooked under tarps in the rain. When we hiked out 6 days later past an area that we planted first, they already had bright green new growth on them. Very satisfying.

ILikeMex - 8-26-2009 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
It takes 20 years for paper to decpmpose in a desert atmosphere.

Where do you get these statistics from - do you pull them out of your ass? :lol:

Thanks

wessongroup - 8-26-2009 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Curt63
The small propane cylinders are refillable at a cost of about 40 cents. Harbor Freight sells the little gizmo that attaches to a 5 Gal. Propane tank. Works like a charm, but some leak.

Every day you learn something, thanks much for the info on the adapter... have used propane for those small BBQs for some time, but with a 6.5 lb tank or larger, as the small ones took up too much space and were always rolling around.

Refills, outstanding...

ElFaro - 8-26-2009 at 12:11 PM

Well when I first read the title of this thread I got a "wiff" of where this was going and it certainly didn't smell good. I can now say with certainty this thread definitely stinks. In my effort to "clear the air" on this topic I have to tread a fine line between not getting dumped on but also not to take this thread into the sewer. Having said that... :lol:

In all seriousness...we take along two 10 gal. portable black water tanks. You can buy them at RV supply stores. I think they even sell a 5 gal. size. What I like about them is they have connections to easily dump into an RV site dump station. You can buy a hose with couplings and cut the hose to custom fit your tank-to-dump setup. I also bought a portable collapsible hand truck to wheel around the port. tank in case I have to haul the tank from my camp site to the dump station. If your camping remotely why not travel one day to an RV park, pay a small fee to dump your portable tank and return? We normally travel Baja towing a trailer...the reason for the 2 port. blk water tanks. We can use them for blk. or grey water...which ever the need to dump. For car camping you can MT your porta potty into the portable blk tank and later dump at an RV park.

woody with a view - 8-26-2009 at 12:22 PM

i prefer a shovel when the funky outhouse isn't available. it's much more practical, even old school all the way back to when we started walking upright.

Crusoe - 8-26-2009 at 01:41 PM

Barry....Got your u2u....Thanx.....Small world..... Yes we must have met at Dianosaur Natl. Mon., because we needed to get permits for our trips on the Yampa and Green through Ladore Canyon from the Rangers Headquartes there. I was incharge of getting permits among other dutys. I too was there from 1967 to 1972. Our headquarters were in Vernal, Utah. Many fond memories of islolated campsites and very few people on those rivers compared to now.We would run the Yampa early spring time and the Green in summer and every Sept. 1st would shift to Southern Utah near Moab and make two trips down Cataract Canyon. Lots of fond memories. Your job must have been very rearding as well. Mine was alot of fun!!! I never cosidered it real work. ++C++ :lol:

Mexitron - 8-26-2009 at 03:44 PM

Here was our solution one year when we had eleven people camping for a week---we built an outhouse....

At the end of the week we torched it and filled the hole back in!

mtgoat666 - 8-26-2009 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
Barry....Got your u2u....Thanx.....Small world..... Yes we must have met at Dianosaur Natl. Mon.,

dinosaur:
u2u is where you are supposed to reply to u2us :lol:

Pacifico - 8-26-2009 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina
This past summer in Bahia, our neighbors to the north of us had company for over 2 weeks. There were over 20 people of all ages staying at the house. Every day we would see them walking out to the desert with a roll of t.p., no shovel. This happened at any time during the day or night.

When they finally left the desert looked like it had snowed. TP streemers were flying from bushes, cactus, caught under rocks. The wind had carried it off in both directions so that we had quite a bit of it behind our place as well. It was disgusting.

Never mind about the piles of trash they left or the diapers.

P<*)))>{

Disgusting!!! Anyone ever say anything to them?

Crusoe - 8-26-2009 at 05:01 PM

Wilderone- Yes I am sure alot of old growth trees must have been burned in that fire. A real shame.The Park Service has closed all the trails in and around both the S. Fork and the main fork of the Dosewallips so its hard to get any straight information as to what is happening. Also in the next drainage south along the Duckabush River there is an even larger fire that was started about the same time by a lighting strike and they are calling it the 10 mile fire, which they are unable to deal with. I have heard it is taking out alot of old trees ( silver firs) that some have been there for 1000 years or more. They have claimed that they will let the fires burn until the Nov. rains put them down. Really to bad. ++C++

David K - 8-26-2009 at 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacifico

Quote:

Disgusting!!! Anyone ever say anything to them?

Agreed... I bet you had to really hold back Paulina!? Did you not give them a piece of your mind because they were in 'their own country'?

Paulina - 8-26-2009 at 05:58 PM

Give them a piece of my mind?

Does anyone actually think that one Americana crazy woman's opinion was going to change the lifetime habits of seven different families that were staying at that property?

No.

"In their own country" is a big part of it.

I was tempted many times to walk a shovel out to them as they were doing their duty, catch them in the act so to speak. I knew they already had them as we watched them dig out a truck stuck on the sand. They were choosing not to put forth the energy to use them.

Toileting wasn't their only infraction.

So far I've been able to get them to avoid flattening out the dunes in front of our place with their ATCs. They go around, but they still race up and down the beach as fast as they can as well as fly back and forth behind our place.

They are better with their trash as last year I took them a full box of Hefty bags "assuming" they forgot to bring them. There were fewer people at the house at that time, young adults who instantly got up and cleaned up the beach.

This time some of the trash actually was put in bags, but left in the neighbor's steel drum oven for the trash truck to make it's non existant trash pick up. The crows did their best with it.

As it was when the families left Dern and I picked up 4 more bags of trash that had blown out into the desert. We took it all to town to the municipal trash cans.

Even picking up their trash in obvious disgust while they were still there watching us didn't encourage them to stop letting the wind do the work for them.

There are some people with some cultural/ ingrained habits that will continue to do as they have always done. What we can do is try to set a good example and do the best we can to not add to the problem.

P<*)))>{

SKIDS - 8-26-2009 at 06:04 PM

The Japanese have a common sense approach to human waste .They have been useing it for fertilizing the land for hundreds of years with very little health issues.
www.alanmacfarlane.com/savage/DUNG.PDF

dthomas218 - 9-1-2009 at 09:51 AM

I want to pick up on Shari's (and others) comments about recycling and one-liter bottles. On my last trip to Baja I stopped at an "aqua purificada" station in one of the last towns before heading into the Catavina desert, and paid a deposit on one of those large bluish containers, half filled with water. I threw it in the back of the car, refilled once on the way, and got my deposit back on the return trip. I used it to keep filling the liter bottle I had carried from home, and was out of pocket about seven bucks for water.

Dan

EnseNADAslim - 9-16-2009 at 09:09 AM

I camp out every year for the baja 1000 and 500 and we set up our potty tent, use our bucket with toilet seat, pack out what we pack in... We try to do the same when we Kayak as much as possible. As I see it this problem has again feel on the US saving the world and the whole "Green" thing is a bit out of control. People just need to do what is right.
The locals of this country should be setting the example for it's visitors but I'm still amazed as I drive down the street and watch beer cans and Mc Donalds bags getting thrown out the window.
Yes! I totally agree with the just of this post, we need to do all we can to respect this land and it's waters. And when we camp pack out what you pack in.

DianaT - 9-16-2009 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron_Perry
What I saw at this dump was the worst sight I have ever seen in Baja, or anywhere else in my life. As far as my eyes could see, trash blowing in every direction, with no attempt to bury or recycle. Out of sight, out of mind, in the middle of the desert. Ron

Our town has municipal trash collection, but since we do not have a road yet by our place, we take our trash to the local dump---besides, it is a nice drive out into that area.

While there are efforts to make it better, it is a mess----many, many people do not go all the way to the dump, they just dump along the road.

And the dump is located in an absolutely beautiful part of the desert and beautiful canyon and it is as you describe---

So, we take our trash, sometimes the neighbor's trash, bags of the trash we pick up around the area, and then dump it onto another beautiful desert---never feels right, but the dump has to be located somewhere and there is the beginning of some management.

There is also talk about maybe starting to recycle plastic and that would be great and help.

As far as camping goes, some of the ideas like that of Mexitron are great ideas, but we usually do not stay more than one night in a place---

While we have not backpacked for several years, I remember in the Sierra's when the area around the back country campsites were awful, really awful. Same as some areas in Baja---like out where the local horse race track is---not a pretty picture. A funky outhouse would be a welcome addition.

Crusoe---didn't know you worked for Outward Bound---my oldest son worked for them many years ago before he started his own business. Good outfit.

[Edited on 9-16-2009 by jdtrotter]

KurtG - 9-16-2009 at 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeans
The Porta Potty.

Took it everywhere...it never leaked...never smelled. The "holding tank" was large enough to hold several days worth of #2. It easily detached & fit in a large beach bag. Take it into a restroom & poured it in the toilet....

Flush.....Bye Bye

Tried to show a pic...didn't work...here it is if you want to see a similar one

http://www.rei.com/zoom/759745.jpg/150

[Edited on 8-23-2009 by jeans]

It's going to look a little strange strapped to the back of my motorcycle, but if thats what it takes---------

Crusoe - 9-16-2009 at 05:00 PM

KurtG....That little R.E.I. Porta-Pottty you show is really a good unit. Have owned one for years and is very easy to use-dump-and clean! It can be so discouraging hiking up, or near some of these these more populated arroyo's and watch the coyotes and other animals as well, digging up the fresh tp and crap and eating it. Every one should carry one of these units.++C++