BajaNomad

San Javier Cave Paintings washed away by Ivo.

BajaNomad - 8-29-2013 at 11:45 AM

From Mike Younghusband:



"To all my Loreto and Baja California friends. A little sad news. After hundreds of years the San Javier Cave paintings are gone. (first pic) The wall they were on is also missing. The damage from the recent storms is devastating."




(click the picture for full resolution)



"The road to San Javier is destroyed. (second pic) Nothing can get through. Heavy equip is parked close to the area with not much in the way of options."




(click the picture for full resolution)

rts551 - 8-29-2013 at 12:09 PM

too bad. Think that nice new road made so everyone can enjoy the wonders of Baja might have contributed to the paintings demise?

bajacalifornian - 8-29-2013 at 12:10 PM

Thanks Doug, thank you Mike.

Wow, after all these years . . .

MikeYounghusband - 8-29-2013 at 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
too bad. Think that nice new road made so everyone can enjoy the wonders of Baja might have contributed to the paintings demise?


These last two storms seemed to come straight through San Javier. Much more than usual. Hope the road is open soon and I hope the people of San Javier are safe and dry. Looks like they got hit pretty hard. I will let you know as soon as I know.

BajaGeoff - 8-29-2013 at 12:19 PM

Wow. That is crazy....

desertcpl - 8-29-2013 at 12:20 PM

that's just terrible

rts551 - 8-29-2013 at 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeYounghusband
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
too bad. Think that nice new road made so everyone can enjoy the wonders of Baja might have contributed to the paintings demise?


These last two storms seemed to come straight through San Javier. Much more than usual. Hope the road is open soon and I hope the people of San Javier are safe and dry. Looks like they got hit pretty hard. I will let you know as soon as I know.


Mike I hope everyone is OK in San Javier as well. The Paintings have weathered storms (and some people) for hundreds of years. What is different this year?

BajaNomad - 8-29-2013 at 12:36 PM

From the Juliette thread:
Quote:
Originally posted by tehag
Ivo did this on Saturday/Sunday last. I'm guessing it will be closed for a while.

desertcpl - 8-29-2013 at 12:41 PM

holly crap

what are they going to do with the people in San Javier
they could be cut off for a long time

is there a back way in, other than just a trail?

David K - 8-29-2013 at 01:01 PM

Yes, two other roads plus trails.

desertcpl - 8-29-2013 at 01:03 PM

thanks Dk

boy that looks just awful

Sad

fixtrauma - 8-29-2013 at 01:10 PM

Even though it has been 15 years ago and in a Dodge mini van since we made that trip, I will never forget the wonderful adventure it was to get there. Hoping the best for those living there. So sorry to hear about the loss of the paintings.

vandenberg - 8-29-2013 at 01:35 PM

That washed out road picture is likely the one you can drive to, with a few other ones further up the road.
Reminds me of a time in the late 80's, early 90's when a storm devastated this road and it took a long time before you could reach SJ. And then only with lots of road only one way, with the road collapsing into the canyon next to my truck. Scary, with no way to turn back.

[Edited on 8-29-2013 by vandenberg]

jbcoug - 8-29-2013 at 01:50 PM

This is sickening. On a drive south only a little over a week ago boe4fun drove me through there. We went up the front from Loreto and drove out the back way. I was truly amazed by the quaint little town they have way out there and the mission grounds. Paul stopped to show me the cave paintings, I hadn't even been aware of their existence. It's so sad that I may have seen them in their final days. What a loss. On our way out the back we criss-crossed the river bed over twenty times. Only got the tires wet once. We talked about what it must be like when it was raging and that it would be impossible to get through. I really feel sorry for the people of SJ. We were surprised that the road from Loreto was paved all the way, although it certainly had some nasty washouts and undercutting. It seemed relatively easy to make the trip and now this. I hope they get access for the residents soon.

John

BajaBlanca - 8-29-2013 at 03:12 PM

I am grateful that we went at the beginning of the year ... Those cave paintings were in their own way, very special, i really liked going there. Sure hope the people in SJ are hanging in there.

bacquito - 8-29-2013 at 03:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Quote:
Originally posted by MikeYounghusband
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
too bad. Think that nice new road made so everyone can enjoy the wonders of Baja might have contributed to the paintings demise?


These last two storms seemed to come straight through San Javier. Much more than usual. Hope the road is open soon and I hope the people of San Javier are safe and dry. Looks like they got hit pretty hard. I will let you know as soon as I know.


Mike I hope everyone is OK in San Javier as well. The Paintings have weathered storms (and some people) for hundreds of years. What is different this year?


Climate change!!

CaboDreamer - 8-29-2013 at 03:36 PM

Similar view of the caves before the storm. Looks like what might be left of the paintings is under several feet of river bed.

rts551 - 8-29-2013 at 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bacquito
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Quote:
Originally posted by MikeYounghusband
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
too bad. Think that nice new road made so everyone can enjoy the wonders of Baja might have contributed to the paintings demise?


These last two storms seemed to come straight through San Javier. Much more than usual. Hope the road is open soon and I hope the people of San Javier are safe and dry. Looks like they got hit pretty hard. I will let you know as soon as I know.


Mike I hope everyone is OK in San Javier as well. The Paintings have weathered storms (and some people) for hundreds of years. What is different this year?


Climate change!!


and I would be willing to bet the new road changed the course of the wash that runs down the arroyo.

David K - 8-29-2013 at 05:05 PM

Why taking photos of historic sites is so important to preserve them before Nature or Man removes them.

Here our my photos at the site from July, 2009:




Baja Angel next to protective railing at cave art site.


Truck is in parking spot, next to highway, as seen from cave art site.


The highway from above and west of the cave art.

More...

David K - 8-29-2013 at 05:11 PM

Here are more that have never been posted before, from that same trip:



Compare the above photo with the new one from Mike Younghusband... It appears that the site is covered by gravel and may still be there once the gravel is removed.







[Edited on 8-30-2013 by David K]

willardguy - 8-29-2013 at 05:13 PM

what a shame. okay here's probably a stupid question, is it possible that within all the rubble something could be salvaged? some of the photos show some very large pieces. maybe?:?:

so not to lose this treasure

Mulegena - 8-29-2013 at 05:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
what a shame. okay here's probably a stupid question, is it possible that within all the rubble something could be salvaged? some of the photos show some very large pieces. maybe?:?:
Good question, Willard. I doubt any agency would take charge of the excavation but... if some enterprising person were to do so they might wish to donate the shards to the Museum of Natural History in La Paz.

Barry A. - 8-29-2013 at 06:46 PM

I think the problem will be that the debris (rocks and sand) in the flood waters will have simply erroded the ancient paintings off the rocks (like they were sand-blasted), leaving nothing but natural stone on the face of the cliff------It would take a lot of work to even excavate the rocks and sand down to even see if any 'paintings' survived.

Tropical Storm "Kathleen" in 1977 in the Imperial Valley of CA destroyed whole Native American village sites that were at least 800+ years old--------simply washed them away.

Barry

Paintings

tehag - 8-29-2013 at 07:30 PM

No matter how good your intentions, touching Mexican cultural antiquities is a major no-no. You can be jailed, fined, and deported.

Loretana - 8-29-2013 at 09:44 PM

That was such a beautiful spot.......I'm glad I enjoyed them while they were in existence. I always imagined a turtle shell, other folks saw different images



The pool was there at least half the year, in the fall following the rains. My dog would go crazy every time I turned onto the road to San Javier, he knew he would be swimming in the cool fresh water. The "pinturas rupestres" will be missed.



Skipjack Joe - 8-30-2013 at 05:29 AM

Given that they were 3 feet above the bed of that arroyo I don't think anything could have saved those paintings. They would have had to extract them and move them to a safer location.

elgatoloco - 8-30-2013 at 09:34 AM

That is a shame. About 20 years ago we were headed up that road and the wife had recalled seeing some paintings in '79 when she was down there,could not recall exactly where. We had the idea we would be on the lookout. We saw some shade on the left, good place to have lunch, went for stroll up the canyon to check out the water and voila, cave paintings. arroyos can be scary places con mucho agua!

Hope everyone down there is safe and road gets back together soon.

David K - 8-30-2013 at 05:40 PM

Here is a comparison between my 2009 photo and Mike's 2013 photo, cropped to be close to same area:

2009:


2013:


The top of the painted cave is visible in Mike's new photo... so it is only a couple feet covered. There is hope!

wessongroup - 8-30-2013 at 05:42 PM

Truly amazing what "water" can do ... good before and after DK

Mariz - 8-30-2013 at 06:32 PM

I'm not so sure all is lost.

I would be surprised that something like this has never happened in the history of the paintings.