BajaNomad - so what's with the Mulege River Project / Dam

so what's with the Mulege River Project / Dam

wetto - 1-17-2015 at 09:50 AM

Looking for input on what was learned from the last storm / flood and what current plans are underway on the diversion / Dam project for Mulege.
I have seen many posts pre Odiel touting the benefits and work in progress at that time. Not so much after the last flood.

[Edited on 1-17-2015 by wetto]

chuckie - 1-17-2015 at 10:31 AM

I doubt any more money will ever be spent on that project. It was such a failure and there are many more places which will get higher priority. My opinion only....And I suspect that by breaking up the surface soil in the mountains and losing it all down river during odile, the situation may have been worsened...Hope I am wrong..

Gulliver - 1-17-2015 at 05:25 PM

Let's hope it works. Odile was certainly the muddiest flood so far. Lots of debris in the first pulse of flood water compared to previous floods. Hard not to think that it was due digging up there.

Bajahowodd - 1-17-2015 at 05:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Gulliver

Let's hope it works. Odile was certainly the muddiest flood so far. Lots of debris in the first pulse of flood water compared to previous floods. Hard not to think that it was due digging up there.

Bingo!

willyAirstream - 1-18-2015 at 08:10 AM

There are 2 loaders and 4 dump trucks clearing the ditch that is parallel to Ice House Road. They have been making it deeper and wider for 2 months. That dirt is being dumped in a field on a near by rancho.
Rumor is that this will lower the flood level in the area before the bridge.

On another note...3 or 4 trucks are constantly bring dirt to repair the north river road.

David K - 1-18-2015 at 08:15 AM

Thank you! :light:

Gulliver - 1-18-2015 at 08:45 AM

Of course this will certainly have a wonderful effect on the floods down here in gringolandia.

Oh, well. I am planning on emptying EVERYTHING out this year right down to the breakers and ceiling fans and having the doors removed as any storm gets near. Wash and wear housing.

willyAirstream - 1-18-2015 at 10:23 AM

Good idea.
Easy in - Easy out.
Plug and Play

chuckie - 1-19-2015 at 07:32 AM

I wonder if anyone did any math before they started on the "Ditch"? It would seem that to even dent the amount of water volume coming down the river in the time period of the flood, the ditch would have to contain about 2/3rds of the volume?

MulegeAL - 1-19-2015 at 08:01 AM

Chuckie, the math is done in pesos!

Let's go get a beer at El Patron; by the time you get here the beach may be whole again. Was only 6" deep at low tide yesterday.

chuckie - 1-19-2015 at 09:49 AM

Like the plan, Al.....should be there 1st week in February...Maybe we could have 2 beers?

cervezafrio - 1-19-2015 at 10:42 AM

Is wishful thinking allowed? Any plans for below the bridge improvements? It is a do every thing or nothing will work. One item will not solve the equation. Water flow reduction, diversion, storage, plus water flow control, channels, deep river dredging. As W-airstream says 'easy in easy out'. Then some hurricane diversion events for the creative thinkers........ if that does not work I hear there are some nice 55 and older, gated, condo's in Florida.

Gulliver - 1-19-2015 at 11:19 AM

Until there is some fairly serious dredging in the estuary, there will be flooding in South Gringolandia. I am just planning on it and working constantly at improving the water survival characteristics of my house. Including planting more palms in front as they have the best root systems of all.

toneart - 1-19-2015 at 02:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Gulliver

Until there is some fairly serious dredging in the estuary, there will be flooding in South Gringolandia. I am just planning on it and working constantly at improving the water survival characteristics of my house. Including planting more palms in front as they have the best root systems of all.

Ummm....you might want to rethink your palm tree theory, Gulliver:

100_0600 [DVD (NTSC)].JPG - 37kB

micah202 - 1-19-2015 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cervezafrio

Is wishful thinking allowed? Any plans for below the bridge improvements? It is a do every thing or nothing will work. One item will not solve the equation. Water flow reduction, diversion, storage, plus water flow control, channels, deep river dredging. As W-airstream says 'easy in easy out'. Then some hurricane diversion events for the creative thinkers........ if that does not work I hear there are some nice 55 and older, gated, condo's in Florida.

...yeh,I'm with you on that 'do everything or nothing will work' theory. There's -nothing- they can do out back that'll significantly effect the flow through Mulege.
...perhaps one of these will help,,but yer better add higher walls....

[Edited on 1-19-2015 by micah202]

chuckie - 1-19-2015 at 03:23 PM

Where will the money come from? So much has been spent already to no effect, I suspect the dredging of the river was for naught, with all the silt from Odile...The BIG tourist centers will likely get priority for the next few years...Reality....

micah202 - 1-19-2015 at 03:46 PM

....^^....concrete cheap in Mexico,no?

...or some political buddy gets a nice kickback for bad work :biggrin:

Gulliver - 1-19-2015 at 04:42 PM

Palm trees are no panacea but two things:

That picture was, I believe, taken in The Orchard which took such a hit that whole houses disappeared. There is no defense against such a rush of water short of a Dutch solution or something like New Orleans.

My existing palms had a pronounced effect on the erosion. The house up stream from me with no palms lost half of the road in front. I escaped with minimal effects. From erosion, I mean.

Besides, I like palm trees and they are cheap. Two of them are holding up my Ham Radio antenna right now.

[Edited on 1-19-2015 by Gulliver]

toneart - 1-19-2015 at 06:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Gulliver

Palm trees are no panacea but two things:

That picture was, I believe, taken in The Orchard which took such a hit that whole houses disappeared. There is no defense against such a rush of water short of a Dutch solution or something like New Orleans.

My existing palms had a pronounced effect on the erosion. The house up stream from me with no palms lost half of the road in front. I escaped with minimal effects. From erosion, I mean.

Besides, I like palm trees and they are cheap. Two of them are holding up my Ham Radio antenna right now.

[Edited on 1-19-2015 by Gulliver]

Regarding the Orchard photo, this is true, Gulliver! That was my casita after Jimena. Also, at the beginning of the Orchard where the river jumps the shore line at the curve, huge, mature palms that were planted by the Jesuits were uprooted too. They came through the Orchard like battering rams.

I agree, Palm Trees are beautiful! More important for protection though, is the stability of the ground immediately beneath your house as the water swirls in. The houses that were totaled collapsed into giant holes as the ground eroded beneath them. That was our experience with the houses that were set back from the river banks.

Right along the river though, most of those houses were wiped out by the water's force broadsiding them.

The majority of the Orchard houses that didn't collapse, and were set back from river's edge were salvageable.

In my opinion, the current project at the base of the mountains will not help. During huge hurricanes the storms tend to stall out over the area. There is simply too much water cascading down the arroyos. That kind of water comes with too much force.

I can handle differing opinions, if they come, and can only hope I am wrong. Best of luck to you all.

wetto....I sent a U2U message

AKgringo - 1-19-2015 at 06:43 PM

Gulliver - 1-19-2015 at 07:00 PM

I fully expect that what ever they do out West of town will either have no effect or make things worse. Come on! It's Mexico!

At the rate the N.E. Pacific surface temps are rising I have hopes that the storm tracks will curve even more to the East and miss us. I can dream, can't I?

With any luck those dolts in Bug Tussle, Texas will get stomped big time by Caribbean hurricanes and dry up with the climate denials.

bajabuddha - 1-19-2015 at 07:07 PM

The answer to the problem is quite simple, if put into terms. Behind Mulege is a giant catcher's mitt, and the BFR's on either side of the bridge is where your hand goes into the mitt. Problem is, BIG MITT, little hand. An amazing geographical/geological basin, all into one little bitty funnel. Whadayagonnado? There aren't many (if any) choke-points to build retaining dams. If upper trenches or retaining ponds are in place, more mosquitoes, more Dengue...... unless a comprehensive plan was to be put in place by qualified engineers.

Qualified engineers? Baja doesn't even have any train tracks. (SARCASM, FOLKS). The only answer for now is, if you build in the KNOWN flood plains, plan on 1/3rd of every 3 vacations cleaning up, even if you have a live-and-move pad. Lordy, folks... 10 years ago the writing was on the wall what was going to come, and guess what... it did, again and again and again..... so did ditches, and more mud....

Well, i'll be dammed (spelling intended). After 10 years living in Anazazi country we learned they didn't build on flood plains; they built above where the spring floods irrigated the lands they'd quickly plant. Some cultures only take a couple of storms to say "Oh shucks, this isn't a good spot!" regardless of how esthetic and pleasing it is...... for now.

Twenty-thirty years ago Mulege had no internet; just word-of-mouth and oral history. Seen the ''Oooh, Paradise!''-ers come and go. Hopefully newer investors realize when it comes to the pinch-point in Mulege, "It ain't nice to fool Mother Nature".

Chuck, when you get there, you know people. Is it possible to suggest a north road to Loma Azul ABOVE the friggin' flood-plane? Remember the 6 - "P"s? Mulege, my heart will always be a part of you and your Pueblo; my favorite spot in all the Americas.

Marc - 1-19-2015 at 07:09 PM

Is there any kind of science or engineering involved in all of this?

alacran - 1-19-2015 at 11:52 PM

Yes there is silt in the river, however most of the problem comes from the cheap houses that were build around the river edges, and pushed in the river, as a clean up.

Gulliver - 1-20-2015 at 06:42 AM

Of course a house in a flood plane is going to get flooded. Duh? But my house was built well before this recent spate of storms. Five floods in thirteen years? This is a historical anomaly and maybe it will continue and maybe not.

The storm tracks have shifted. No question. And the more extensive activity up in the valley, mostly new agriculture, has caused a lot more silt down stream. And then the recent earth moving has really stirred things up.

It wouldn't be necessary to dredge and the floods wouldn't be quite so bad if there weren't all these things coming together.

There is no easy fix. I'm living with it. And I'm far from well to do. I just clean up and enjoy the wonderful place and people. Now if the cold weather will just ease up?

cervezafrio - 1-20-2015 at 08:33 PM

To Live or Die and maybe just Exist... that is the question. Many years passed I remember walking the roads of Mulege. Even a pleasant stroll down the south river road. Charming houses, over hanging trees, small boats parked in front of some houses. It was quite the picturesque of quaint. Very Charming, the only negative I could see was Mulege was full of old people having fun. Now that I have matured into this category I realize that quaint and old is not that bad.----- But that was light years ago. Yes things have changed, and some changes are irreversible. It will take years for the mangrove tress to canopy the roads again. Years I do not have. This is the point that Mulege needs to decide it's future. To try and regain some of it's past glory or will it just try to survive on half rations. Yes the town can survive, But is minimal existence really living. What does the younger generation have to dream about? Feeding their family with a dwindling fish reserve, or on construction projects that depend on foreign investments. Both are not dependable. The foreigners' [out of towner's] are like the fish, with out bait they go other places to live.
The river flooding problem is a multiple problem and the answer is a multiple answer. Which has been discussed and re-discussed to no equable solution. Yes I do have my own version. But with out the support of the Mexican people and especially the Mexican Government, nothing will be done. If they want Mulege to survive and continue they need to be involved. Not a easy solution to get the Government to care about a small but special part of Baja.. Especially when the favorite tourist areas get special treatment. Please do not tell me it's all about the money. Even if it is true.
For myself I will repair my property. But only to a usable state. I will not invest more money and time to a concept that only I care about. Coming to Mulege and investing in Mulege will not become a perpetual build and rebuild vacation destination. No, that does not mean I am leaving. But it does mean that I will not dump my hard earned income into a never ending building project. The point of this venting is not a complain session. But to get more like minded people to try and convince the people of Mulege and the Government people to realize that with out some real concrete solutions. To offer some real hope to the people. That the demise of Mulege is inevitable . Then every body loses. I have been up and down the Baja and I can honestly say that Mulege offers some thing special that other towns and cities do not. To lose this Baja treasure would be a shame on Mexico and a loss to all...

toneart - 1-20-2015 at 09:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Gulliver

Of course a house in a flood plane is going to get flooded. Duh? But my house was built well before this recent spate of storms. Five floods in thirteen years? This is a historical anomaly and maybe it will continue and maybe not.

The storm tracks have shifted. No question. And the more extensive activity up in the valley, mostly new agriculture, has caused a lot more silt down stream. And then the recent earth moving has really stirred things up.

It wouldn't be necessary to dredge and the floods wouldn't be quite so bad if there weren't all these things coming together.

There is no easy fix. I'm living with it. And I'm far from well to do. I just clean up and enjoy the wonderful place and people. Now if the cold weather will just ease up?

Yes! You have stated the reality of what has happened, what is the current status and what you have to do...clean up! Not ideal, but it is what you have to do. There is lots of help available. It is not too expensive and you do not have to walk away from your investment or your life in Mulege.

People in the past have chided us for building there in the first place, and then ridiculed us for "rebuilding". Rebuilding is not what we do. I do not know anybody whose house was totally destroyed who has rebuilt. That would be stupid.

toneart - 1-20-2015 at 09:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cervezafrio

To Live or Die and maybe just Exist... that is the question. Many years passed I remember walking the roads of Mulege. Even a pleasant stroll down the south river road. Charming houses, over hanging trees, small boats parked in front of some houses. It was quite the picturesque of quaint. Very Charming, the only negative I could see was Mulege was full of old people having fun. Now that I have matured into this category I realize that quaint and old is not that bad.----- But that was light years ago. Yes things have changed, and some changes are irreversible. It will take years for the mangrove tress to canopy the roads again. Years I do not have. This is the point that Mulege needs to decide it's future. To try and regain some of it's past glory or will it just try to survive on half rations. Yes the town can survive, But is minimal existence really living. What does the younger generation have to dream about? Feeding their family with a dwindling fish reserve, or on construction projects that depend on foreign investments. Both are not dependable. The foreigners' [out of towner's] are like the fish, with out bait they go other places to live.
The river flooding problem is a multiple problem and the answer is a multiple answer. Which has been discussed and re-discussed to no equable solution. Yes I do have my own version. But with out the support of the Mexican people and especially the Mexican Government, nothing will be done. If they want Mulege to survive and continue they need to be involved. Not a easy solution to get the Government to care about a small but special part of Baja.. Especially when the favorite tourist areas get special treatment. Please do not tell me it's all about the money. Even if it is true.
For myself I will repair my property. But only to a usable state. I will not invest more money and time to a concept that only I care about. Coming to Mulege and investing in Mulege will not become a perpetual build and rebuild vacation destination. No, that does not mean I am leaving. But it does mean that I will not dump my hard earned income into a never ending building project. The point of this venting is not a complain session. But to get more like minded people to try and convince the people of Mulege and the Government people to realize that with out some real concrete solutions. To offer some real hope to the people. That the demise of Mulege is inevitable . Then every body loses. I have been up and down the Baja and I can honestly say that Mulege offers some thing special that other towns and cities do not. To lose this Baja treasure would be a shame on Mexico and a loss to all...

Well said! Your love for Mulege and its people is something others who have not experienced its charm and its magic, cannot appreciate. Loss is difficult to handle. It will never be the same. But you pick up and do the best you can, and hope that you get government attention and support...for the sake of the locals even more that for our sake.

David K - 1-20-2015 at 10:29 PM

Rivers flood, and the Mulege river is no different... The padres almost moved the mission in 1770 to La Magdalena after a flood destroyed the farmlands at the mission. No new climate change, it has been happening here since before the history was first recorded there (1705).

motoged - 1-21-2015 at 12:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by cervezafrio

To Live or Die and maybe just Exist... To lose this Baja treasure would be a shame on Mexico and a loss to all...

Very nicely said. :saint:

Mulege is a special place for me and only regret not having more time there.

me2zoomie - 1-21-2015 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Rivers flood, and the Mulege river is no different... The padres almost moved the mission in 1770 to La Magdalena after a flood destroyed the farmlands at the mission. No new climate change, it has been happening here since before the history was first recorded there (1705).

Actually perhaps you should look at the historic data for the last century: 2 floods 40 and 55 years separated from the latest 13 years worth.

And yes, the Mulege "River" is different, because it is not a river. It's a shallow arroyo system draining a large plain into an ESTUARY - the thing most gringos think of as a river. Most estuaries in the world do not flood except in extreme weather events like hurricanes (?) and tsunamis. In the recent past the waters off Baja Sur have warmed more than the rest of the eastern Pacific and drawn the low pressure systems (read "hurricanes") north, so that they have been effecting us more.

So history and science, so much better than opinion.

David K - 1-21-2015 at 12:52 PM

Yes indeed!

River, stay away from my door!

toneart - 1-21-2015 at 09:18 PM

http://www.musictory.fr/musique/Jimmy+Rushing/River%2C+Stay+...

Jimmy Rushing with Dave Brubeck

:cool:

Gulliver - 1-23-2015 at 03:07 PM

Here's what my house will probably look like after the next flood!

http://traveltips4life.condition.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/u...

cervezafrio - 1-24-2015 at 08:58 AM

The Real Story Is? Read in another post that road work is in progress on the north river road. Is this a fill the 'pot hole' project or some thing that is more formidable. Is there concrete involved? Has any one talked with anybody that has reliable information? Besides the north road does any other part of Mulege have reconstruction? Does the south road have any progress on repairs? Obviously there are more questions than real answers. Living in the dark. But at least not in the Dark Side of Life.

willyAirstream - 1-24-2015 at 09:55 AM

River road sur - the road is gone from Leon`s house to town. Water is up to Leons place and the next house . Road is usable from the Oasis to the Jungla. The new water line blocks the road at the Jungla. Road is somewhat usable via 4wheel or a quad to the light house from the jungla. There is no work in progress.
The road from the school past the mission, out toward the ball field is being elevated with dirt.
The road from under the bridge to the mission is open, but still is just a temporary solution.
The small bridge under the big bridge is open but road is undermined and in need of repair.
There have been dump trucks taking dirt to the north road continually for 2 weeks plus. No sign of concrete.
Price of dirt has dropped to 100 for a truck load.
The undermined pothole on the highway, 1.5 k south of town is still not repaired after at least 2 months and continues to be a hazard.
The road out to Rays has been widened and graded. Almost a freeway.
In town has the usual potholes but nothing serious.
To get to town from your house, via quad or moto, you will need to cut thru the Oasis to the highway into town.
I will be going out to El Patron tomorrow and will take pics.

mtnpop - 1-24-2015 at 10:15 AM

Richard,
we have not made it down yet but we understand the south road is not there from the Oasis to Leon's place by the Orchard either...
Water line is at least to t he park wall.. The estuary is wider than ever most of the way from town..
And a big chunk of the malecon is undermined...
Large portion went out past the lighthouse..
See you next month...

cervezafrio - 1-24-2015 at 10:28 AM

Mulege the only town I know of that goes backwards in life. Next time it will be like the 1800's .. Only a Mule with a good pair of shoes required. Maybe that is what Mulege means in 1800 Mexicana speak.

But in todays world maybe going backwards is going forward ?

cessna821 - 1-24-2015 at 12:10 PM

I can see why some folks might think things are going backwards - I order gas from Gaspasa for delivery to Loma Azul one day, it arrives the following day and it is the same price I was paying in England thirty years ago!

Surveyors from La Paz came here a couple weeks ago to check on progress of the north riverside road. Good access is important to Loma Azul as it is a permanent residential community and has the Marine Base.

Anyway ... we now have more trucks dumping rocks to infill a breach alongside the road, after truck loads of earth were used to build up the road and it was graded. The good work is going on and the road is driveable by any vehicle.

chuckie - 1-24-2015 at 12:23 PM

Good news for us Loma Azulers...

Estrella - 1-24-2015 at 03:16 PM

Any pictures of how that repair is coming along? Sounds like one no longer has to drive through Don Chano's to access the malecon?

cessna821 - 1-24-2015 at 04:53 PM

The 'lagoon' that remained behind the malecon is now being filled in, probably another few weeks as it will take a lot of earth to fill it.

You can access the malecon without driving through Don Chanos' park, although the Tecate beer trucks are still going that route as I would suppose they might be concerned about their weight on the repairs.

Estrella - 1-24-2015 at 05:06 PM

Thank you for the update!

wetto - 1-25-2015 at 11:22 AM

Thanks to all who replied with solid info on the water diversion project and opinions on what's happening too !

Project updates, photos and continued road repairs along the river roads for access and boat launching are always an added bonus for readers like me.

thanks again

willyAirstream - 1-25-2015 at 08:08 PM

River roads and El Patron
The pics below are 800 wide, 450k average at 80 quality
See facebook for larger images.

thumbnail,
for large pic 800 x 3000 go here http://4wheelthrills.com/nomads/PanoDSCN7526_DSCN7532.png
Max, feel free to hotlink

House just past Leon's place, towards town

[Rant]
after batch resizing and placing a size limit of 225k I still get an error trying to upload to the forum.
250k quality is less than stellar

Quote:

Error
Sorry, the file you uploaded exceeds our size limit.

Error
Sorry, the file you uploaded exceeds our size limit.

and you can only upload one file at a time using multi attachment tool. grrrr.

Antique software ... pfff
[/Rant]

micah202 - 1-26-2015 at 01:11 AM

.....pictures of the damage to the malecon make me realise just how much -volume- goes through there

...I also realize how much of a hermit I am when I'm down in baja...the # of times I've stayed near the lighthouse for a night,,but not connected with the local nomads!

David K - 1-26-2015 at 01:29 AM

Photos look great and they are full size here on Nomad. Linking from another web site is the way to go... no limits on how many photos per post (but good to not do too many for the Nomads on slower Internet).

willyAirstream - 1-26-2015 at 08:07 AM

David, the photos are on my server. I was told that the nomad server allows multi attachments is each is 250k or less. If that worked it would be great.

chuckie - 1-26-2015 at 08:20 AM

Richard, David loves Baja and is trying to help you....

cervezafrio - 1-27-2015 at 09:32 AM

Mulege recover progress. No not the physical aspect. But the emotional aspect, plus the mental realization of the future. Not sure how a population can keep bouncing back after the last ten years of turmoil. I think that the Mexican culture and the history of survival makes the Mexican people stronger. More resilient than other cultures. I think most towns in California would have quit by now.
I am not sure if the local people are mentally geared up to rebuild their town. To make it better than before. I fear this is a patch and plug process. Do only what is necessary to make life some what normal. Under their understanding of what normal is. Do you nomads think that finally the realization has taken root, that a full blown rebuild is necessary, Is required to move the town forward. That all aspects of flood reduction need to investigated. I do not think any body thinks that we as humans can prevent the consequences of Mother Nature. But just maybe we can take a 10 foot flood and make it a 5 foot flood. That could be doable? - A 50% reduction would give hope and a future back to the Mulege area and it's people. But if the local people do not believe, if the people with more influence do not believe. then how do you convince the people in charge. Believe that it is physically possible and then believe that it is politically possible... I know that in the past I have spoken with any body that will listen. Trying to plant the seed on thought. Trying to help them be forward thinkers. Trying to have them talk between themselves. Helping people to believe that it can be possible.......... Buenas suerte a todos

micah202 - 1-27-2015 at 11:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by cervezafrio

..snip..... maybe we can take a 10 foot flood and make it a 5 foot flood. That could be doable? - A 50% reduction would give hope and a future back to the Mulege area and it's people. ........

....a 10' flood to a 5' flood?......after studying the surrounding geography, I'm pretty convinced there's no way to safely and effectively reduce the volume of waterflow that goes under that bridge. The best that likely can be achieved is some containment of the flow. ...hence my comment above about channeling.

.

AKgringo - 1-27-2015 at 06:51 PM

I agree with Micah. While it would be wonderful to slow the flow of the flood, and possibly capture some of the water to be used later, a storm like Odile is likely to cause the containment to fail and make the flood worse!
A plan to stabilize the banks of the flood plane and provide better flow with less debris would hopefully cause less damage in the long run.
But Mother Nature is still going to be a mean mother from time to time.

cervezafrio - 1-28-2015 at 09:54 AM

Flood reduction not elimination. What I have been hearing for several years around the drinking table. Which means it has to be true. That the long term idea was several parts together to create some thing more durable. #1 - above the framing valley in three of the canyons placement of dams. But these dams are special to reduce and control water flow. This is guessing, but a dam that is 6 ft high then place water flow openings to release the pressure. Then build higher and place more water over flow outlets ... then maybe again . This way some water is contained [for future use and ground water seepage ] the other water is released in a fashion to slow the flash flood effect. #2 - clean the valley which will help the debris from becoming a wall of destructive trash and palm trees. #3 - Which i believe is critical, is Dredge the Dam River. Take a one foot deep river bed and make it 10 feet deep. [that is the channel you speak of] Yes there are those that will say at high tide what good is that. I think high tide is a short time period. Then the water level changes. Even at high tide the water is more forgiving than a rock/cement block filled river channel. If by luck the flooding occurs at low tide [mas y minus] Then the intensity of the water flow is diminished greatly. With a do all the parts together, then just maybe a 10 foot flash flood will be a 5 foot controlled event. Which is livable compared to the last 10 years.
The up side is all positive. a rebirth of Mulege, New people [money] moving into the area. revitalization of the community. Better jobs and future of the local Mulegena's .. and with a Deeper river the water is flush out with the tide action. So the water will at least look as if it is clean. The small boats can maneuver upstream again. That will really motivate the newbies to invest in the future. ....... But only if the local people believe that it can be done. Other wise what we have is what we will always have. ???//

Pompano - 1-28-2015 at 11:29 AM

This is Mike, who once ran his 26' heavy aluminum boat (anchored offshore in this photo) from Oxnard Marina, Ca. to my place at Coyote Bay, then upriver in Mulege to his old home in the Orchard development. It would be nice to see the river become that navigable again.

LancairDriver - 1-28-2015 at 11:39 AM

From an engineering standpoint of course a solution to the flooding problem could be accomplished. The problem is not a lack of will on the part of the people who are affected, but rather a financial problem. There simply isn't enough money in all of Baja to keep the roads passable throughout the peninsula and tackle a project to rebuild Mulege and build a system of dams in the higher terrain. It wouldn't be a Hoover Dam sized project but would be very substantial. Proper engineering studies alone would break the bank. After the first hurricane the government as well as the residents stepped up in Mulege big time. It appears they have had enough after the last few. All the folks involved have done their best to recover from the devastation of the past ten years, but it will take a massive amount of money and effort to reverse the damage. Here in the US, up until recently money never seems to be a hindrance in dealing with problems like this. We simply crank up the money presses and print more money. Just my guess, but Mexico seems to be on a more realistic financial path in paying as they go.

Barry A. - 1-28-2015 at 12:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

From an engineering standpoint of course a solution to the flooding problem could be accomplished. The problem is not a lack of will on the part of the people who are affected, but rather a financial problem. There simply isn't enough money in all of Baja to keep the roads passable throughout the peninsula and tackle a project to rebuild Mulege and build a system of dams in the higher terrain. It wouldn't be a Hoover Dam sized project but would be very substantial. Proper engineering studies alone would break the bank. After the first hurricane the government as well as the residents stepped up in Mulege big time. It appears they have had enough after the last few. All the folks involved have done their best to recover from the devastation of the past ten years, but it will take a massive amount of money and effort to reverse the damage. Here in the US, up until recently money never seems to be a hindrance in dealing with problems like this. We simply crank up the money presses and print more money. Just my guess, but Mexico seems to be on a more realistic financial path in paying as they go.

A sound evaluation!!! I believe that a "cost/benefit analysis" would kill any significant plans to mitigate the water flow from major future storms in this case.

My Family lost an entire ranch (13 houses & buildings) in Owens Valley on Oak Creek above the Mt. Whitney Fish Hatchery to a wildfire and then a flood-------all gone, and it is barely recognizable as the same place. We always knew this was a possibility. The Family has walked away-------"cost/benefit analysis" just kills any effort at rebuilding----------we have moved on.

Barry

Sweetwater - 1-28-2015 at 02:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willyAirstream

David, the photos are on my server. I was told that the nomad server allows multi attachments is each is 250k or less. If that worked it would be great.

Outstanding photos.....as usual for you.....

U2 in your box.....whichever server is hosting..... :lol:

David K - 1-28-2015 at 02:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willyAirstream

David, the photos are on my server. I was told that the nomad server allows multi attachments is each is 250k or less. If that worked it would be great.

There is no file size limit (250k) if the photos are hot linked from your web site (or any other web site), but it is requested to not exceed the 800 pixel width of this forum... and your photos are 800 pixels, so perfect!

The file size limit is for attaching photos onto Nomad from your PC folder (Browse or Attach button).

micah202 - 1-28-2015 at 02:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cervezafrio

Flood reduction not elimination. What I have been hearing for several years around the drinking table. Which means it has to be true. That the long term idea was several parts together to create some thing more durable. #1 - above the framing valley in three of the canyons placement of dams. But these dams are special to reduce and control water flow. This is guessing, but a dam that is 6 ft high then place water flow openings to release the pressure. Then build higher and place more water over flow outlets ... then maybe again . This way some water is contained [for future use and ground water seepage ] the other water is released in a fashion to slow the flash flood effect. #2 - clean the valley which will help the debris from becoming a wall of destructive trash and palm trees. #3 - Which i believe is critical, is Dredge the Dam River. Take a one foot deep river bed and make it 10 feet deep. [that is the channel you speak of] Yes there are those that will say at high tide what good is that. I think high tide is a short time period. Then the water level changes. Even at high tide the water is more forgiving than a rock/cement block filled river channel. If by luck the flooding occurs at low tide [mas y minus] Then the intensity of the water flow is diminished greatly. With a do all the parts together, then just maybe a 10 foot flash flood will be a 5 foot controlled event. Which is livable compared to the last 10 years.
The up side is all positive. a rebirth of Mulege, New people [money] moving into the area. revitalization of the community. Better jobs and future of the local Mulegena's .. and with a Deeper river the water is flush out with the tide action. So the water will at least look as if it is clean. The small boats can maneuver upstream again. That will really motivate the newbies to invest in the future. ....... But only if the local people believe that it can be done. Other wise what we have is what we will always have. ???//

..yes, as Lancia says...''of course a solution to the flooding problem could be accomplished.''...but at what cost?

The thought of any sort of dam up above is darn scary....unless it's a full-on 'hoover-type' dam. Anything less than solid concrete could be undermined by waterflow and create a monster cataclysm in some circumstances.
...your suggestion of dredging would of course be very nice for life between storms,,,definitely would complete the shangriLa effect nicely,,,but pictures of the malecon damage demonstrate clearly that it'd take not only dredging but likely a concrete channel with good-height walls........ to do what,,keep the ~dozen gringo homes safe?? :wow:

....what impresses me the most of the native population is their resiliency. They well put the 3little pigs to shame and just keep things simple,rebuild when necessary!

[Edited on 1-28-2015 by micah202]

cervezafrio - 1-29-2015 at 09:54 AM

It took me 50 years to finally realize that it is always ''about the money'' I might be a slow learning but having money as the bottom line of life was hard concept to accept. Especially when there are other excellent qualities of life to enjoy.
But at least in keeping the post alive, I have received some agreement that it could be done... Where before it was a unbelievable concept. Remember it is only a 10' to 5' wish list. It is not only about 'a dozen gringo homes' it is the entire area. The valley people suffer, Loma Azul people complain about access and services. The locals complain about not enough money, no work etc. The flood affect all not just a few river gringos.
Back to the money. Everybody in the entire area, locals and foreign do not have enough money to solve the problem and never will. That is one of the reasons for a centralized government. To help its people in need. [not to micro manage their lives]. I have seen this government spend millions of dollars in other parts of Baja. Some of it to good use, helping it's people to have better lives. But the flip side I have seem millions spent of 'fluff and curb appeal' projects that do nothing but improve the surface image. The Malecon in Loreto took several years to finish but did it improve the traffic flow? the parking problems at happy hour?, the smell of sewage at the intersection next to the Mission hotel .. no, no and no. The widening of the road all the way out to the new hotel in Ligui . Is that for a better life for the locals? no The turning Loreto in to a 'Magic town' . Creating a more attractive entrance off of Highway 1 .. Did not make it safer crossing the road. This list of expensive so called improvement for the people can be repeated in other areas and towns ..... What did they say about money ..'' follow the money '' Then we will know the why of it all.
Getting the government to be involved in a significant manner is the hurdle to jump. People talking together and convincing this to the people in charge is a start. And if they do not hear you the first time, tell them again, and again ... What was it about the 'squeaky wheel' the nagging other in one's life. Great motivator's..... Or we can adopt the 'manana' attitude.

micah202 - 1-29-2015 at 01:47 PM

.
....sorry Cerveza,,I know '12 gringo homes' was a bit tough,,,but it is a local chuckle about 'who's going to live in the floodplain next'.

...anyone with a multi-generational view of Mulege will be aware that there's a reason that that gorge is carved into the coastline and the native population live in some places and not others.

....It's a good point you make about some of the project$ that get completed,,and following the money trail. Maybe I'm wrong but it's my feeling that quite possibly all of those projects together in BajaSud over the past 10 years might not equal the expense of a proper solution for Mulege's battle against nature. Any shortcoming in such a project,,or a major flow event occurring during construction could be both very expensive AND cataclysmic.

It just seems to me that the staw and wood piggies are better off than the stone piggie in this case ...maybe that's why Mulege's holding those pig races these days...competition has always been a good way to keep the population fit and ready!

[Edited on 1-29-2015 by micah202]

willyAirstream - 1-30-2015 at 08:43 AM

BEFORE

10857838_829323223793120_7660975817972973866_n.jpg - 33kB

cervezafrio - 1-30-2015 at 09:04 AM

WillyAir - Does that picture have a time stamp? Best guess. It is from town looking towards the lighthouse mound? Has any body done a recent Ariel shot to compare. Thanks Stream

Footnote: if the conversation continues the thoughts and ideas are not lost or forgotten. Other wise it becomes a memory.

willyAirstream - 1-30-2015 at 09:58 AM

Still looking for a date.
Yes, looking at the lighthouse, from town.
Ariel pics are posted in one of the other dam threads.
Time to add that second story to your casa. The locals are snapping up the lots on high ground along light house road and in the hills beyond the mission. The lots along the highway south of town are also being sold.
If you drive to the top of the mountains toward Paso Hondo, you can see that any dam would be gigantic, not going to happen.
Mulege is changing, moving forward. People are looking at alternate sources of income, instead of depending on tourism. A fertilizer plant has opened up in the valley. The govt is sponsoring growing corn for ethanol here and there are Rumors of other non tourist industries starting.

cervezafrio - 1-30-2015 at 09:56 PM

Ok I think I am getting the message.. As I mentioned before I am not the fastest. But . So it is the 5 gallon bucket approach, bail out the water as fast as possible. Get to a point where a equilibrium is possible. Then abandon ship and go for high ground. Eventually all the river rats will either learn to swim or be drown out. Since I alone can not bail out fast enough to empty the river valley, I will plug the hole, anchor a house boat to a long line and ride the ups and downs of river bank living.. Thanks every body for your input.. I appreciate the sensible discussion with out all the usual diversionary side / snide remarks... I well close with the old adage of '' stay high and dry '' . Which is more than relevant at this time and space in life......

wetto - 2-12-2015 at 11:40 AM

Any idea if they are going to reconnect the beachfront road (north river road) to the lighthouse and boat ramp?

As of last week there was a large (not passable) gap connecting the estuary to the sea. A lot of fill would be needed.

Anyone hear of any plans?

Gulliver - 2-12-2015 at 12:21 PM

I'm riding my motorcycle out there later today. Will post the results.

alacran - 2-12-2015 at 05:26 PM

In past years and floods, the northern winds of winter have helped to close that gap to the lighthouse.

Gulliver - 2-12-2015 at 05:48 PM

Just got back. Still a channel through the spit. The locals say that you can walk across at low tide but that doesn't sound like anything one would want to negotiate with a wheeled vehicle. And the high ground on both sides is deep sand and gravel.

The North road, for those of you not driving it every day, has had a typical mexican treatment. A bunch of silt trucked in followed by a grader followed by everyone driving fast even when it was wet from some rain.

It is probably better than it was a few weeks ago but not much. We'll see what transpires. They seem to be filling in the area behind the old concrete malecon and, ust possibly, there we some final spasm of road building with a hard surface. One can only hope.

Just now the water department came and buried the last bit of exposed pipe just West of Jungla Jim's in front of Janine's on the South road. Of course, they buried it about eight inches deep so give it a week before it starts leaking like the other six places along in front of the Oasis.

The coots really like drinking from the fresh water springs.

Always resources to patch things up but never to do it so it will last. Sigh.