BajaNomad - ELECTRIC CARS IN BAJA

ELECTRIC CARS IN BAJA

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 7-28-2017 at 05:28 PM

HOLA,

if a person were to decide to buy and bring an electric car to baja sur, other than not having charging stations other than an electrical extension cord from your room, what other problems can you forsee ?

repairs by whom, parts for repairs....

future solutions at home would possibly have to be solar or wind power to charge batteries as electricity is so expensive. distant traveling would be the biggest obstacle.

attached was sent by a friend who is not an engineer.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

Here's something of interest.

ELECTRIC CARS - IT MAKES YOU WONDER.....

Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it.

Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they’re being shoved down our throats…

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS!' and a shrug.

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It’s enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors … and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.” Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4-1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $20,000 while the Volt costs $46,000+. So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay three times as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.

Wake up America!

mtgoat666 - 7-28-2017 at 05:34 PM

IC engines are dirty, they cause horrible air problems in ALL large cities.
Power plants are actually much cleaner and efficient, despite some transmission loss.
The world changes, don't be an oldster and manufacture false reasons to not change with it.

chuckie - 7-28-2017 at 05:37 PM

Do you have an electric car, Goatley?

willardguy - 7-28-2017 at 05:39 PM

electricity is so expensive? I've never lived in BCS so I can't comment on rates there.....but in the last 5 years I've never paid more than five dollars a month for electricity in the rosarito-ensenada corridor. I think an electric car would look pretty attractive for running around town.

mtgoat666 - 7-28-2017 at 05:40 PM

Btw, I doubt anyone in USA pays $1.16/kWh. Where did you get that astronomical electric rate, Nieman marcus?

Perhaps the writer actually pays 11.6 cents per kWh?

[Edited on 7-29-2017 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 7-28-2017 at 05:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

Do you have an electric car, Goatley?

Not right now. But planning to get one of the new non-luxury-price Teslas that are coming out soon. My neighbors have e-cars, and I really like them.

SFandH - 7-28-2017 at 06:05 PM

I'm all for electric cars. IMHO a great development in personal transportation.

Here's a new electric truck.

"Tesla's latest competitor is this badass all-electric truck"

http://mashable.com/2017/07/28/bollinger-b1-electic-truck/#Y...

And as pointed out, the original post using $1.16 per kilowatt hour is off by a factor of 10. The average cost in the US is 12 cents per kilowatt-hour.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/10/27/141766341/the-p...

Good catch Goat. It blows the original post cost argument out of the water.

[Edited on 7-29-2017 by SFandH]

StuckSucks - 7-29-2017 at 08:33 AM

I am employeed in the electric car world.

First, the Chevy Volt is a plug-in hybrid - as the author correctly points out, the car runs a limited time on the battery, then switches over to gas. Comparing the Volt to other EVs is an apple-and-oranges discussion.

The Tesla Model S has a ~260 mile range and can charge from empty to full in less than an hour (perfect for catching lunch near a Tesla Supercharger location). And 0-60mph in less than four seconds is pretty torquey.

The fairly new Chevy Spark has a 235 mile range and is able to charge equally as fast.

Absent the high power chargers, all EVs can be plugged into a regular 110v wall outlet - here's where overnight charging is required, but this is also when the power company charges the least for its electricty. Our office is solar-powered, so charging the cars there is virtually free.

For most daily drivers, 200+ miles of range is more than enough for many round trips to work and the store. But driving the length of Baja would be problematic.

That said, there are chargers in Tijuana and all around Ensenada - both the 240v Level 2 chargers and the Tesla Destination chargers. Mexico city and other parts of the country are packed with EV chargers.

EVs are an evolving industry and we are still figuring this out. Please be patient.

chuckie - 7-29-2017 at 09:02 AM

Neighbor has a Tesla and just ordered a second one. He seems to be happy with what he has. When I asked him what it cost to run, he said "I don't know".

SFandH - 7-29-2017 at 09:22 AM

And of course there is the recent Volvo announcement:

"the company said that all new models starting in 2019 will be equipped with an electric motor. Some will be hybrids. Some will be pure electrics."

http://www.swtimes.com/news/20170723/volvo-making-electrific...

Plus the Tesla Model 3 broke the 300 mile range barrier.

http://fortune.com/2017/07/29/teslas-model-3-breaks-300-mile...

[Edited on 7-29-2017 by SFandH]

Timo1 - 7-29-2017 at 09:40 AM

What is the cost for battery replacement when they give up ???
And is battery disposal eco-friendly ??
That's gotta be factored into the running cost

TMW - 7-29-2017 at 09:49 AM

I rented a Toyota Prius last year and once I figured out how to start it I liked driving it. Instructions on how to start it are on page 150 or so in the drivers manual, stupid.

I think electric cars are the future just not in my lifetime will I have one.

BajaBill74 - 7-29-2017 at 12:21 PM

I have 140,000 miles on my Prius. To start it, I get in, sit down, fasten my seat belt and press the START button. Didn't know I could read about it on page 150.

mtgoat666 - 7-29-2017 at 01:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBill74

I have 140,000 miles on my Prius. To start it, I get in, sit down, fasten my seat belt and press the START button. Didn't know I could read about it on page 150.

maybe he had never seen a keyless ignition? there is a first time for everything!

TMW - 7-29-2017 at 02:01 PM

There is another button you have to hit first. I don't remember what it's called but it's like a mode button. Yes it was my first time driving a keyless car.

TMW - 7-29-2017 at 02:03 PM

Contrast that to my wife's 1998 Acura which gives starting and driving info on page 2 or 3.

SFandH - 7-29-2017 at 02:11 PM

I need a new Baja cruiser but it needs to be a pickup, SUV, or maybe one of the new vans. Gotta haul stuff. Maybe I can stretch out the F-250 for a few more years and then get an electric.

Gonna need to buy a new set of tires and another can of bondo.

chuckie - 7-29-2017 at 02:25 PM

Rust is beautiful!

Barry A. - 7-30-2017 at 04:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

I'm all for electric cars. IMHO a great development in personal transportation.

Here's a new electric truck.

"Tesla's latest competitor is this badass all-electric truck"

http://mashable.com/2017/07/28/bollinger-b1-electic-truck/#Y...

And as pointed out, the original post using $1.16 per kilowatt hour is off by a factor of 10. The average cost in the US is 12 cents per kilowatt-hour.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/10/27/141766341/the-p...

Good catch Goat. It blows the original post cost argument out of the water.

[Edited on 7-29-2017 by SFandH]

City of Redding, CA------a co-op elec. utility owned by the city and supposed to be the cheapest electricity in N. CA. We pay 0.195 per kilowatt hour. (19.5 cents per Kilowatt hour).

DavidT - 7-30-2017 at 05:20 PM

Bollinger motors electric truck

TMW - 7-30-2017 at 07:30 PM

I heard on the news tonight that Great Britain is banning all internal combustion cars by 2040.

Also France and another country in Europe by 2040.

[Edited on 7-31-2017 by TMW]

StuckSucks - 7-30-2017 at 07:54 PM

It CAN be done.

One of the guys in my office is driving his Tesla Model X to Fairbanks, AK - he just crossed into AK from the Yukon. When he arrives, he will have logged around 3500 miles from Venice CA. Then time to reverse rudder.

Zero dinosaurs burned.

Bob and Susan - 7-31-2017 at 05:39 AM

batteries are highly toxic...what is the plan to dispose of them

they say replacement batteries are $10k to $15K WOW

the cars are still new so no one has really had to replace them yet

for $3 bucks I can drive my gas car for 40 miles
money will be the "driving" power in the sales of electric cars like this

SFandH - 7-31-2017 at 06:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

I heard on the news tonight that Great Britain is banning all internal combustion cars by 2040.

Also France and another country in Europe by 2040.

[Edited on 7-31-2017 by TMW]

They are going to ban the SALE OF NEW gas and diesel cars in 2040. Not all gas and diesel cars.

There's a big difference.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/world/europe/uk-diesel-pe...

[Edited on 7-31-2017 by SFandH]

SFandH - 7-31-2017 at 07:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

batteries are highly toxic...what is the plan to dispose of them

they say replacement batteries are $10k to $15K WOW

the cars are still new so no one has really had to replace them yet

for $3 bucks I can drive my gas car for 40 miles
money will be the "driving" power in the sales of electric cars like this

My 14-year-old pickup is on its 3rd or 4th lead acid battery. Recycling batteries is not a new problem. All internal combustion vehicles use them. The design goal for EVs is to have the battery pack last the lifetime of the vehicle.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714...

Also, Toyota's fuel cell / electric vehicle is available. Fuel cells have been in use for decades for special applications. You fill up with hydrogen which the fuel cell combines with atmospheric oxygen to generate electricity. It's an electrochemical reaction, as is a battery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

[Edited on 7-31-2017 by SFandH]

DavidT - 7-31-2017 at 09:38 AM

Wait, there's more.

Climate controlled camping.

With a view of the stars.

Ready for Camper Mode

Last year I wrote about a subculture of Tesla drivers who go camping in the back of their cars. It sounds crazy at first, but the car’s massive battery can maintain perfectly controlled climate all night while only losing about 7 percent of the car’s range. With the glass canopy overhead and the view of the stars, it’s a great way to enjoy national parks without the bother of a campsite. I tried it myself and loved it.

With the new Model 3, there’s great news for those Tesla campers and others who like to haul long cargo. The seats of the Model 3 fold completely flat, and with the front seats in their most forward position, the back bed measures an impressive 6 feet 9 inches long (206 cm). This is a car that’s dying to be slept in.

BajaTed - 7-31-2017 at 09:54 AM

$$$ and a ballena of Pacifico to the first photo posted of a Tesla 3 next to the famous palm tree of Coyote bay in August.

As Huell Howser would say; the juxtaposition of the two together would be iconic .

chuckie - 7-31-2017 at 10:04 AM

Better hurry..The ocean is rising so fast it will be under water soon..

soylent_green - 7-31-2017 at 10:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

The lithium Ion batteries in a Tesla car probably don't get deep cycled too much for the average driver. Less than 100 miles before each full charge.

Supposedly the battery capacity drops about 5% after the first year than levels off.

Tesla predicts the life is 500K miles. Some Tesla owners and battery geeks think they are being conservative in that number.

Barry A. - 7-31-2017 at 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DavidT

Bollinger motors electric truck

Coincidentally, BOLINGER MOTORS got some publicity on Fox Business (Varney & Company) this morning for their Off Road Elec veh. That might help sales down the line, and certainly can't hurt.

vandenberg - 7-31-2017 at 01:35 PM

Why would anyone build a vehicle that looks like a box on wheels?

Barry A. - 7-31-2017 at 01:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by vandenberg

Why would anyone build a vehicle that looks like a box on wheels?

Because it's so utilitarian-----i.e. it holds a lot of stuff efficiently. Sorta like the now defunct Isuzu Trooper which was a GREAT 4x4 vehicle, and one which I owned for 27 years.

AKgringo - 7-31-2017 at 02:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote: Originally posted by vandenberg

Why would anyone build a vehicle that looks like a box on wheels?

Because it's so utilitarian-----i.e. it holds a lot of stuff efficiently. Sorta like the now defunct Isuzu Trooper which was a GREAT 4x4 vehicle, and one which I owned for 27 years.

Nostalgia! His first car was an International Scout!

BajaMama - 8-1-2017 at 06:28 AM

Electric/battery cars are great but what I would like to know is what is their carbon footprint? Ya, they don't burn gas but that electricity comes from something....

SFandH - 8-1-2017 at 06:57 AM

"Ya, they don't burn gas but that electricity comes from something...."

----------------------------------------

How many ways are there to generate electricity? That's where it comes from.

Nuclear (20% of elec. in the US), solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal - no carbon footprint. Fossil fuels, yes.

Plus wouldn't it be great to rid of car exhaust in the cities?

[Edited on 8-1-2017 by SFandH]

TMW - 8-1-2017 at 09:04 AM

Natural gas provides about 50% of in state CA electric power. CA has one active nuclear power plant. They can't shut down the fossil fuel plants because wind and solar don't produce 24/7.

I think it is a good ideal to reduce gas cars, I'm all for cleaner air.

AKgringo - 8-1-2017 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks

It CAN be done.

One of the guys in my office is driving his Tesla Model X to Fairbanks, AK - he just crossed into AK from the Yukon. When he arrives, he will have logged around 3500 miles from Venice CA. Then time to reverse rudder.

Zero dinosaurs burned.

For what it is worth, the Fairbanks grid is coal fired. A little know fact is that Alaska has more coal reserves than oil. Lots of natural gas up north, but it is too expensive to get it to market.

Bob and Susan - 8-1-2017 at 10:42 AM

I think it looks like my 1986 Suzuki roadster

Bubba - 8-1-2017 at 01:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks

I am employeed in the electric car world.

First, the Chevy Volt is a plug-in hybrid - as the author correctly points out, the car runs a limited time on the battery, then switches over to gas. Comparing the Volt to other EVs is an apple-and-oranges discussion.

The Tesla Model S has a ~260 mile range and can charge from empty to full in less than an hour (perfect for catching lunch near a Tesla Supercharger location). And 0-60mph in less than four seconds is pretty torquey.

The fairly new Chevy Spark has a 235 mile range and is able to charge equally as fast.

Absent the high power chargers, all EVs can be plugged into a regular 110v wall outlet - here's where overnight charging is required, but this is also when the power company charges the least for its electricty. Our office is solar-powered, so charging the cars there is virtually free.

For most daily drivers, 200+ miles of range is more than enough for many round trips to work and the store. But driving the length of Baja would be problematic.

That said, there are chargers in Tijuana and all around Ensenada - both the 240v Level 2 chargers and the Tesla Destination chargers. Mexico city and other parts of the country are packed with EV chargers.

EVs are an evolving industry and we are still figuring this out. Please be patient.

How much to purchase new batteries and dispose of the old?

StuckSucks - 8-1-2017 at 01:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bubba

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks

How much to purchase new batteries and dispose of the old?

The Nissan LEAF uses a 24-kilowatt-hour battery pack: $5,500. The list price of a Chevy Bolt EV HV battery pack is $15,734.29. I think they generally figure a 10-year life span.

Old batteries are recycled or reused. An interesting reuse: Renault to recycle old EV batteries into home energy storage

Bob and Susan - 8-1-2017 at 01:53 PM

couldn't you strap on some high voltage solar panels?

we haven't plugged in our electric golf cart for over 3 years...still easily drives 19 holes a day

PaulW - 8-2-2017 at 05:51 AM

Stuck wrote
Old batteries are recycled or reused. An interesting reuse: Renault to recycle old EV batteries into home energy storage
====== ===
I recently watched on TV about a company that is repairing these car batts. They take them apart and replace to bad cells. They have a booming business.

SFandH - 8-2-2017 at 11:08 AM

Here's somebody selling used Tesla Model S battery modules on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Tesla-Model-S-battery-modules-24V-...