BajaNomad - Immigration check

Just an FYI:
Ensenada office for FMM is next to the Port Captains office, $29.00 for five days

Just to be clear, you are talking about people arriving by sea to Mexico, yes? If you arrive into Ensenada by car, you are already in violation of the law. Yes, I am sure a whole bunch of people don't bother stopping at the border to do the formality.

For the record, the deal made pretty clear in recent years is that ALL land travelers into Mexico MUST get the FMM at the BORDER because there no longer is a Border Zone or 72 hour grace period in the border zone.

FMM is FREE for up to 7 days (but is to be returned to INM when you head out of Mexico... no easy task).

The pay FMM is for up to 180 days and does not need to be returned. It was 500 pesos last year... or US$30.

bajaguy - 8-5-2018 at 10:45 AM

Just an FYI - People have been fined and/or sent back to the border trying to get an FMM at the port after driving in

Just an FYI:
Ensenada office for FMM is next to the Port Captains office, $29.00 for five days

del mar - 8-5-2018 at 11:13 AM

Just an FYI:
Ensenada office for FMM is next to the Port Captains office, $29.00 for five days

Ted are you saying they would only offer 5 days rather than 180?

BajaTed - 8-6-2018 at 03:12 PM

My five day FMM was acquired in Ensenada to support the Mexican legal requirements for a trust beneficiary modification.

Other than that I'm an "espalda seca" when in baja, but I do have mexican car insurance from Bernarbe

fINED

J.P. - 8-6-2018 at 03:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Just an FYI - People have been fined and/or sent back to the border trying to get an FMM at the port after driving in

Just an FYI:
Ensenada office for FMM is next to the Port Captains office, $29.00 for five

I took a friend down to the port and they fined her 50 pesos. That was the least of it we had go to the Government Bank to pay the fine then go back to the port office get the fmm. :spingrin:

[Edited on 8-6-2018 by J.P.]

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-6-2018 at 03:54 PM

i have been going to BAJA for years and have never even heard of FMMs, but am looking forward to a trip to San Quintin in a month or two to visit my girlfriend's family and was wondering if i actually need one. yes i know they are the law and they are cheap and all of that, but i don't have a passport. i have just been using my driver's license at the border to get home (i don't go that often, and have never been past ensenada), and i have seen on the immigration website that in order to get a FMM, i need a passport. WTF. there is no way every american that goes to BAJA gets one. seems far fetched. advice?

David K - 8-6-2018 at 05:16 PM

i have been going to BAJA for years and have never even heard of FMMs, but am looking forward to a trip to San Quintin in a month or two to visit my girlfriend's family and was wondering if i actually need one. yes i know they are the law and they are cheap and all of that, but i don't have a passport. i have just been using my driver's license at the border to get home (i don't go that often, and have never been past ensenada), and i have seen on the immigration website that in order to get a FMM, i need a passport. WTF. there is no way every american that goes to BAJA gets one. seems far fetched. advice?

Hi John,
Welcome to Nomad!
I hope you can handle the abuse some dish out here! LOL

Here is the deal...
You are in another country and while they may not always enforce the rules, that doesn't give any of us non-Mexicans an excuse to not know them.

The rules up to a few years ago used to be that you didn't need anything for short stays (up to 3 days) in the Border Zone (as far south as Maneadero/Punta Banda). It even was believed and stated by the Baja tourism people to include the entire state of Baja California and up to 7 days! Great for tourism to not have silly bureaucratic rules!

The passport is something the U.S. said they wanted us all to use for ID and a few years ago Mexico insisted we have it, too (to get the FMM).

The rules a couple years ago were modified to ALL border crossers must have a Passport (or equivalent ID) and obtain an FMM (Tourist Card). Free for up to 7 days, or ~US$30 for up to 180 days. The free ones are handed back in when you cross back north (only there is no easy way to do that by car). The pay one you keep and throw away after 180 days (great for multiple trips).

So, does every U.S. car stop at the border and walk into the INM office to get them? No, otherwise traffic would be backed up to L.A.
Maybe they all have the 180 day one from an earlier crossing?

You can get the FMM online or at Discover Baja Travel Club, BUT you have to still park at the border and get the thing stamped to activate it when you go into Mexico the first time with it. Hardly makes getting the paper in advance worth the effort.

Viva Mexico!

[Edited on 8-7-2018 by David K]

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-6-2018 at 05:45 PM

thanks for the info, which all checks out by the way. it just seems so new to me. and setting awareness aside, i guess now it's time to work on my laziness and get my passport. i guess it is different going down south a few 100 miles rather than just some afternoon beers in TJ. better safe than sorry.

and thanks David K for the warm welcome. i have been roaming your site for a few days now and would like to compliment you on it's thoroughness and depth. a lot of good stuff here. can't stop clicking.

David K - 8-6-2018 at 05:49 PM

thanks for the info, which all checks out by the way. it just seems so new to me. and setting awareness aside, i guess now it's time to work on my laziness and get my passport. i guess it is different going down south a few 100 miles rather than just some afternoon beers in TJ. better safe than sorry.

and thanks David K for the warm welcome. i have been roaming your site for a few days now and would like to compliment you on it's thoroughness and depth. a lot of good stuff here. can't stop clicking.

Great to see you! My site is www.vivabaja.com which is designed to help anyone who wants one, to find a Baja adventure idea. This forum (at BajaNomad.com) belongs to my good friend Doug Means ("BajaNoamd" here). I have a lot more data and photos and maps posted here than on my site!

mtgoat666 - 8-6-2018 at 05:51 PM

Who is John galt?

BajaBlanca - 8-6-2018 at 05:59 PM

Way back in the day, we are talking 12 years ago, I thought I could get FMM in Ensenada.

They gave me a hard time but I insisted and finally got the paperwork to go to the bank, pay up, return and get stamped. They explained that in theory, they were only there to handle folks that arrived by boat.

rts551 - 8-6-2018 at 06:07 PM

Who is John galt?

A new disciple.

freediverbrian - 8-6-2018 at 06:22 PM

Who is John galt?

[/rqu

Someone that does not have passport and expects to travel across boarders without a passport and is shocked when told they need proper and legal paperwork to enter a foreign country????

AKgringo - 8-6-2018 at 06:26 PM

I don't know anyone who has been shaken down for a bribe for not having an FMM, but the possibility is there. It is also grounds for a legitimate citation and fine!

A passport will also give you the option of flying to or from Baja if something comes up that requires it.

Driving into Mexico and getting the FMM can be done with the passport card (also good in Canada) but flying requires the official book form.

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-6-2018 at 07:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by freediverbrian

Who is John galt?

[/rqu

Someone that does not have passport and expects to travel across boarders without a passport and is shocked when told they need proper and legal paperwork to enter a foreign country????

I don't expect anything, except for a consistent and fair reality. if i am not committing then don't treat me as a criminal, especially in a country where serious crimes are clearly a bigger issue. would i find it surprising to be stopped at a military checkpoint for something as trivial as a $20 dollar tourist card when 1% of total crimes reported go unpunished and 10% of homicides as well? i think most people would be. i disagree with martial law and resorting to a police state as a means of dealing with crime. clean up your police force and investigate crime, don't just hassle honest citizens. innocent until proven guilty.
and i am not complaining now, nor was i complaining earlier, but my shock is warranted if you think about it. i still do apologize for the reaction though but my boy scout days are over. i am a little too old to be walking on eggshells for governments who are way too quick to jump the gun on messing with me before they would rather do their job. just saying

[Edited on 8-7-2018 by JohnGaltSpeaking]

[Edited on 8-7-2018 by JohnGaltSpeaking]

BajaBlanca - 8-6-2018 at 08:00 PM

Welcome John!

I think it is really important to follow the laws here as visitors. That does mean getting an FMM and having either a passport card (a bit less expensive but cant be used for air travel as AKgringo mentioned) or a passport per se.

Just like we all expect and hope that Mexicans enter our country legally too! They should be so lucky to only have to pay $20! It is so expensive! I almost croaked when my 2 students went for their US tourist visas last December. Crikey!

joerover - 8-6-2018 at 08:28 PM

Boss looking guy at the entrance in TJ this adfternoon.
Looks at the form instean of just waveing me through, says,¨do you know when it expires?¨

Santiago - 8-6-2018 at 08:47 PM

Sigh.....is Goat the only one to figure this out? "Who is John Galt".....indeed. This is required reading for the republicans in the house per the current Speaker. I'm pretty sure this 'newbie' is not.

freediverbrian - 8-6-2018 at 09:20 PM

Who is John galt?

Ayn Rand knows who John Galt is . Atas Shrugged . We have been played .

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-6-2018 at 09:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Santiago

Sigh.....is Goat the only one to figure this out? "Who is John Galt".....indeed. This is required reading for the republicans in the house per the current Speaker. I'm pretty sure this 'newbie' is not.

you are unfortunately right. but i am going to stop liking a book because idiots read it too? that'll be the day. any idiot can pick up any book, think he understands it, and quote it, but that doesn't make them experts and definitely doesn't affect the source material in any way. entertaining misinterpretation is a waste of time.

SFandH - 8-6-2018 at 10:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by joerover

Boss looking guy at the entrance in TJ this adfternoon.
Looks at the form instean of just waveing me through, says,¨do you know when it expires?¨

walking or driving?

[Edited on 8-7-2018 by SFandH]

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-24-2018 at 04:37 PM

went through there august 21 and august 23 at 11 am both times and no immigration checkpoint, just military.

David K - 8-24-2018 at 07:22 PM

In the 50+ years of traveling in Baja...
The 8 trips last year driving over 12,000 miles researching to the tip and even last weeks short trip...
I have NEVER been asked for immigration documentation (Tourist Card or Passport) at any military checkpoint.

The only places have I have been, by INM officials, were at the state border/ eagle monument three times (2001, 2007, 2009) and at the Ensenada airport when I arrived and departed Mexican airspace by helicopter (2014)... plus the old immigration checkpoint south of Ensenada in the 60s to 80s.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by David K]

norte - 8-24-2018 at 08:38 PM

In the 50+ years of traveling in Baja...
The 8 trips last year driving over 12,000 miles researching to the tip and even last weeks short trip...
I have NEVER been asked for immigration documentation (Tourist Card or Passport) at any military checkpoint.

The only places have I have been, by INM officials, were at the state border/ eagle monument three times (2001, 2007, 2009) and at the Ensenada airport when I arrived and departed Mexican airspace by helicopter (2014)... plus the old immigration checkpoint south of Ensenada in the 60s to 80s.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by David K]

So what is your point?

David K - 8-24-2018 at 09:05 PM

My point is a follow-up to John Galt.... that military stops asking for FMMs is not common and INM setting up highway checks is pretty rare.

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-24-2018 at 09:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by norte

So what is your point?

according to the initial post, the topic was about a separate immigration checkpoint, not the military checkpoint. at least that's why i was interested in the post since i didn't get an FMM. but, of course, all info is good info.

mtgoat666 - 8-24-2018 at 09:33 PM

Perhaps you haven’t spent much time in Mexico.
I’ve had a number of military inspection stops ask to see passport. The airports seem to always ask to see passport and fmm.

Barry A. - 8-24-2018 at 10:10 PM

As a conservative, In my 60+ years of travel in Baja CA I too have never been asked to see my papers at any checkpoint.

Perhaps only Lefties are asked for their papers-------they are a shifty bunch. LOL

SFandH - 8-24-2018 at 11:03 PM

went through there august 21 and august 23 at 11 am both times and no immigration checkpoint, just military.

Good! Thanks for the report.

I wonder how many gringos without FMMs got nabbed when they had the immigration checkpoint set up. I bet a bunch.

David K - 8-25-2018 at 12:02 AM

Well, it is silly to not have the FMM when we have made the process so well known. An informed traveler would find out these things before leaving his country, wouldn't he? You may be able to freely drive into Mexico, but you are not there "legally" if you don't get your tourist card, at the border, or get the pre-purchased one validated at the border.

It's not rocket science, but you darn well know that for every 100 cars driving into Mexico, probably 90% don't stop to get the card or may think for one day or staying north of Maneadero still doesn't need one?

Royosbaja - 8-25-2018 at 05:25 AM

8/10/2018 ~ 1030 several miles south of Santa Rosalia

The immigration folks were stopping vehicles and asking for papers. When we were heading back home ~ 1400, they were gone.
Not there on 8/15. Pretty sporadic..

John Harper - 8-25-2018 at 05:32 AM

As a conservative, In my 60+ years of travel in Baja CA I too have never been asked to see my papers at any checkpoint.

Perhaps only Lefties are asked for their papers-------they are a shifty bunch. LOL

As a radical hippie leftist, in my 60+ years of travel in Baja CA I have never been asked to see my papers at any checkpoint.

Another misconception about the left.

John

bajaric - 8-25-2018 at 06:15 AM

In all of the discussion of FMM, ad nauseam, I have only heard one incident where someone actually was fined for not having one; it was a chase team for a SCORE event out in the desert and they had their passports confiscated and had to go to Guerrero Negro and pay an $80 fine at a bank and it cost them a day out of their trip. With that said, the times are a changing, was a guy at Mexicali waving people over to the INM office last year, after 30 years of traveling Baja I finally ponied up the money to get one. Wonder who's pocket that money ends up in.

DaliDali - 8-25-2018 at 08:41 AM

Perhaps you haven’t spent much time in Mexico.
I’ve had a number of military inspection stops ask to see passport. The airports seem to always ask to see passport and fmm.

Never in 20 some odds years........asked for immigration papers at a checkpoint......

SFandH - 8-25-2018 at 08:56 AM

I was asked for my FMM once at the state line just north of Guerrero Negro and another time at Playa Santispac, officials from Santa Rosalia office were checking all the gringo RVers on the beach, 3 or 4 years ago.

Never asked for any type of docs at military checkpoints.

Sounds like spot checks are going to be more and more common along the highway and perhaps elsewhere.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by SFandH]

DaliDali - 8-25-2018 at 09:07 AM

$65 bucks for a passport card.
This is good for getting a MX FMM
Will get you across the border north.

Will not be good for international air travel.

$65 bucks....totally worth it to avoid the stains in your shorts when some MX official asks for your MX FMM and you don't have one.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/apply-r...

Barry A. - 8-25-2018 at 09:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

As a radical hippie leftist, in my 60+ years of travel in Baja CA I have never been asked to see my papers at any checkpoint.

Another misconception about the left.

John

-----or, as we all know, many lefties are good actors, which is certainly not a "misconception". :bounce:

norte - 8-25-2018 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

As a radical hippie leftist, in my 60+ years of travel in Baja CA I have never been asked to see my papers at any checkpoint.

Another misconception about the left.

John

-----or, as we all know, many lefties are good actors, which is certainly not a "misconception". :bounce:

AND good golfers... So there you have it. The FMM is an alternative fact.

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-25-2018 at 12:53 PM

it's funny how everybody on here is adamant about 2 facts: 1st, FMMs are a must and everyone should get one. 2nd, nobody checks for FMMs. it seems that this whole FMM business is low on the list of worries when traveling far. speed traps, road conditions, and shady checkpoints seem to be way more probable concerns. at least that's what i concluded based on everyone's expert opinion. and I don't say that sarcastically. I mean while it does sound funny when the first badge everyone pulls is "40 years of traveling through Baja," who else, or how else, are we going to know other than sharing our experiences. things of this nature aren't exactly in a travel guide and it's not like you can ask a native because what they go through is not what we go through. in the end, just based on simple math, if everyone pays 25 bucks for an FMM everytime they come down here, that's a few hundred bucks. why not just skip that part, and if they ever stop you, just pay the fine. according to all the veterans here, they never ask for the damn thing anyway.

SFandH - 8-25-2018 at 01:01 PM

JGS,

You buy one every six months if you are a frequent visitor (they're good for 180 days if you request it), as I stated above I've been asked for my FMM twice, and it seems more spot checks are being done.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by SFandH]

bajabuddha - 8-25-2018 at 01:26 PM

......why not just skip that part, and if they ever stop you, just pay the fine. according to all the veterans here, they never ask for the damn thing anyway.

Because it's the LAW. If you don't get one you're illegal, and isn't tha what all the hoo-haw is all about up here lately? Illegally being in our Country?

Also it's more than just being caught without one and paying a fine. If you get in an accident or in trouble you're in deep doo-doo without one.

chippy - 8-25-2018 at 01:35 PM

Has anyone mentioned that your insurance is useless without having proper migratory status?

willardguy - 8-25-2018 at 01:40 PM

JGS,

You buy one every six months if you are a frequent visitor (they're good for 180 days if you request it), as I stated above I've been asked for my FMM twice, and it seems more spot checks are being done.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by SFandH]

how many have you bought?

SFandH - 8-25-2018 at 01:44 PM

how many have you bought?

Well, I had them when asked.........I may have made a couple of day trips to Rosarito without an FMM, maybe, I fergit, that was 152 years ago. My first trip to Baja was in 2025.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by SFandH]

willardguy - 8-25-2018 at 02:09 PM

how many have you bought?

lol...check your u2u

BajaMama - 8-26-2018 at 07:31 AM

I was asked for my FMM once at the state line just north of Guerrero Negro and another time at Playa Santispac, officials from Santa Rosalia office were checking all the gringo RVers on the beach, 3 or 4 years ago.

Never asked for any type of docs at military checkpoints.

Sounds like spot checks are going to be more and more common along the highway and perhaps elsewhere.

[Edited on 8-25-2018 by SFandH][/

We had to show FMMs and passports in 2003 at GN bug stop. Always have both, it is not only the law but a show of respect.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by BajaMama]

PaulW - 8-26-2018 at 07:40 AM

Do you all know that if you have to appear before a court in Baja the first thing they ask you is your documentation. For a non citizen that means means FMM, Residente Permenante, or Tempory Residente. Without these then you will be deported with no appeal. And your stuff will be left behind.
There are several instances where you might have to go to go to court such as serious accident that you were part of, but not responsible (witness?). Or such a thing as a legal dispute requiring court disposition.
Your FMM is a get out of jail pass and a way to avoid deportation. Pretty good deal for only $25.

I just dont get it

Howard - 8-26-2018 at 08:37 AM

Your in Mexico and it is the law to have documentation. Period, end of discussion, it's the rules.

For all you posters who waffle on this, what is your opinion of undocumented people living in the USA or Canada?

For those who do flaunt this law in Mexico you are saying that it's fine and dandy for anyone to sneak into your home country and skirt the law.

What is the difference? None in my book. Play by the rules or don't play at all.

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2018 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Howard

Your in Mexico and it is the law to have documentation. Period, end of discussion, it's the rules.

For all you posters who waffle on this, what is your opinion of undocumented people living in the USA or Canada?

For those who do flaunt this law in Mexico you are saying that it's fine and dandy for anyone to sneak into your home country and skirt the law.

What is the difference? None in my book. Play by the rules or don't play at all.

Laws are made to be ignored, circumvented, broken ,and changed.

I don't think most Mexicans don't get uptight about the rules, the rules, the rules, like many in the states, and many times in Mexico, you have the rules, and then there is also the practice.

The US has the practice too, you're suppose cross back into the US with a US passport, but many US citizens still pass with only their drivers license and birth certificate with no problems, and no you probably won't be sent to secondary like many claim.

What's the practice of many including myself, especially Mexican-Americans, who cross the border often, is to not bother, to get an FMM card when they cross into Mexico, especially by car, when they are making a day trip or even staying a few days in Tijuana, Rosarito, and Ensenada, that are the popular destinations.

Now if you walk in the border, you have to talk to a Mexican customs official, who only really seem interested in filling out a FMM card for you if you're going to stay more than 7 days, and they will charge you a fee.

Most of the time, I tell the official, I'm staying for only a day trip, and they quickly give me back my passport or passcard, and only rarely will they issue me an FMM card, especially when I'm rolling my eyes, and saying do we really have to do this?

Of course, if I'm flying into Mexico, or driving far into Mexico, then I will get the FMM card, otherwise I don't bother, because I know nobody is going to hassle me over the FMM card......but this is how I do things.

Regarding undocumented people living in the US or Canada. I think people should be able to live anywhere they want, and that includes undocumented Americans living in Mexico.

Howard - 8-26-2018 at 09:41 AM

"Regarding undocumented people living in the US or Canada. I think people should be able to live anywhere they want, and that includes undocumented Americans living in Mexico."

I really don't care what you think, you are not above the law.

I am not going to debate this and I'm done with any further posting with you on this matter. Unlike some of you posters, I have a life and plan on going outside today and enjoy it.

DaliDali - 8-26-2018 at 10:25 AM

Joe says you can ignore, circumvent and break laws.

Anarchy 101

Rather than take the high road of the last word......"change"

Get the FMM Joe......it's FREE for your short "zone" outings.

Or be a decent person and if those "zone" outings are frequent, get the 180 day version. If not, free is about as close to zip as it comes, if your financial situation deters you from $25 clams for the 180 day version.
$25 bucks for full access to the zone for 6 months....how good does that get Joe? You can stroll the alley to your heart's content without fear of being jacked up for no "papers"

MX officials who look the other way with your whining of "do I have to" are just idiots. If their jefe knew of this...it.could be in the unemployment line for them.
Not long ago, there was a "purge" of corrupt agents.

Put up the MX immigration statutes to disprove the need for a short visit FMM and if you can, I can man up and apologize....

So "roll your eyes" Joe, so you can be afoul of the laws of another country once again. What a hero you are.

Remarkable sad and disappointing of you Joe, to openly and bluntly advocate the ignoring of MX norms for immigration.....no matter how short a period.

"Oh...I am only going to the zone officer....don't make me get a FFM ok?"...

When the next stop is El Rosario......yeah buddy.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 10:34 AM

when FMMs are mentioned I notice everyone brings up the LAW, as if we were forgetting what the LAW means in Mexico and as though it is somehow the same thing as the United States. are we really forgetting that this is the country where the mordida rules? i have literally seen people roll stop signs in front of cops, but been pulled over for supposedly going 5 km/h over the speed limit, and paid to get out of that ticket. can that same sentence be said about the States? does everyone want to start a discussion about how many rolling stops we have been able to make in front of cops in, say, California or how many CHP officers have accepted a bribe for a speeding ticket? let's not get started on some of these rust buckets that you see with fake plates and white smoke galore. these cars wouldn't be legal in Mad Max, let alone the States.
relax on the whole not getting an FMM. i was asking because i have never been further than Ensenada and my main inquiry was that of a realistic expectation as to how important these things are. i had never even heard of these things before. and of course they are the law. hell it says that right on the website and a link to that website would clearly end the discussion if all we wanted was technical information. but real world application is different in any country, especially Mexico.
David K said it perfectly... get the damn thing because it is super cheap, but be prepared to never use it because they don't really check it. simple.
other people want to mention ethics and start a political discussion and compare 2 radically different countries... my God. if i wanted the letter of the law, i'd ask a lawyer. if i wanted a lesson in ethics, i'd talk to a priest. i just want to go down to Mexico and chill, and i want to know how much "real world" knowledge i have missed out on and what could help me.
and, at least for me, everything has been answered perfectly and i thank those who have thoroughly explained both sides. this message is more for those hall monitors and boy scouts who pretend they have never knowingly rolled a stop sign in Mexico because they know they can bend the law here.

bajabuddha - 8-26-2018 at 10:45 AM

:rolleyes:

So I take it your "why not just skip that part" was a rhetorical question :?:

DaliDali - 8-26-2018 at 11:01 AM

when FMMs are mentioned I notice everyone brings up the LAW, as if we were forgetting what the LAW means in Mexico and as though it is somehow the same thing as the United States. are we really forgetting that this is the country where the mordida rules?

Mordida or not JGS......it STILL remains a law doesn't it?

It's still a inked statute, approved by legislative houses in either country....Stop at the stop sign. Speed limit xx. No turns here.

Either you make the decision to obey those rules or not....at your own peril. The officer may let you go or not.

Sure some have had problems with the "shake down" from the MX officers from time to time.....

It's not an easy situation in MX...they have the power to ruin your day and you're left with little to do about it.

Some choose the "take me to the judge" route and some choose to pay the fine "on the spot"

I don't think that any kind of "gringo" complaining is going to end it all in one fell swoop either. Like rampant littering......it takes years and years to break those bad habits by education and a slow boil of built up condemnation.

Non citizens have zero, to nil voice, in how the wheels of justice turn here.

Accept what it is or don't.....that's the bottom line.

so simple to understand

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 11:31 AM

this isn't about whether or not FMMs are the law. clearly they are, website says so. it's about real world expectations of said law.
this is a simple concept (unless you just want to keep arguing)...
take for example drinking and driving (which is just an example, don't go nuts people)... if i walk out of a bar, loaded at say, 2 pm and on another day walk out of the same bar as loaded at 2 am is drinking and driving less legal in either circumstance? no, of course not. but what are the odds of driving through a DUI checkpoint at 2 pm compared to 2 am? it is extremely simple to understand.
there are many laws, all i was wondering about FMMs is what time is it? is an FMM a 2 pm DUI checkpoint or a 2 am checkpoint? simple.

and before you go nuts... yes, it is my choice and i am ethically obligated to follow the law and this and that, great, i get it. but this is about information, not about what people think that i should or shouldn't do.

DaliDali - 8-26-2018 at 11:52 AM

Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.

You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.

If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather risky if you ask me.

Just sayin......

SFandH - 8-26-2018 at 11:56 AM

but this is about information, not about what people think that i should or shouldn't do.

Do as you please, of course. It's really nobody else's business.

I think the important info to be gleaned from all this babble is that the Mex officials are starting to enforce the FMM rule by setting up spot checks along the highway, whereas before there was little enforcement.

I've read about recent spot checks south of Ensenada, south of Santa Rosalia, and near Loreto. And I've encountered them at the BC/BCS state line and on the beach at Playa Santispac.

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 12:10 PM

Not sure I understand just what it is that is your beef here John.

You have been explained what the law is, you agreed with that law.

If you choose to ignore it in the hopes of an officer won't care, or it's the local customs..or the likelihood of getting caught is small... is rather risky if you ask me.

Just sayin......

no beef. i literally already made my trip and didn't get an FMM. i am just responding to other people and their misunderstanding of the question. what kind of risk is all that i was asking. i never heard of an FMM and initially figured that is was like when the border asked for passports; for a while they were tough, and now not so much. but i didn't know the riskiness of the FMM debate so i asked. if such a simple question can't be understood or goes off the rails, i'm willing to keep talking about it; no beef, doesn't bother me. some people get it, some don't and keep repeating the essence of a law or make it a moral issue.

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 12:16 PM

but this is about information, not about what people think that i should or shouldn't do.

perfectly said. nothing but the info necessary. i don't even know if you agree with getting it or not because it doesn't matter. all the matters is the info, which you provided perfectly. the choice is up to you. other posts are so off the rails, when yours is spot on.

willardguy - 8-26-2018 at 12:18 PM

just thinking out loud....wouldn't it be great if mexico joined these countries that require zero paperwork to enter? or at least go back to the "free zone" that worked so well?
With 159 countries that Americans can travel to visa-free, it's quite a long list. To start, 110 countries allow Americans to travel there completely without a visa, meaning there is zero paperwork involved, and travelers can simply "show up" and enter these countries with only a passport.

Albania
Andorra
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Austria
Bahamas
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brunei
Bulgaria
Canada
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cyprus
Czechia
Denmark
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Estonia
Fiji
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
Indonesia
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Kazakhstan
Kiribati
Kosovo
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lesotho
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macao
Macedonia
Malaysia
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritius
Mexico
Micronesia
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Namibia
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Norway
Palau
Palestinian territories
Panama
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Serbia
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
South Korea
Spain
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Vanuatu
Vatican City

bajabuddha - 8-26-2018 at 12:19 PM

this is a simple concept (unless you just want to keep arguing)....

So I take it this was a rhetorical statement too....

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2018 at 12:24 PM

I must have missed where John agreed with the law. I think you DD have been listening to yourself and others keep saying, it's the law, it's the law.

If anything, I think John is getting confused about the conflicting information that some of you are giving him by telling him get the FMM card, but also telling him, he is unlikely to be asked to show his FMM card. ( of course now some are claiming check points are being set up to check for FMM cards. I wonder what's the penalty anybody paid for not having a FMM card)

If I recall John's post, he didn't even have a passport, so how is he going to get the FMM card?

I'm not going to guess why John, doesn't have a passport, but others have complained about the cost, and some can't get a passport for other various legal reasons, and for things like past child support or back taxes.

And I'm here to tell guys like John, if you drive into Mexico, and aren't stopped at the border, you are good to go. You're unlikely to be stopped in Mexico, and asked to show your FMM card, and for sure, you will be able to get back into the US with just that driver's license if you're a US Citizen.

Of course if you listen to guys like DD, you would just stay home.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

chuckie - 8-26-2018 at 12:25 PM

This whole thread has gotten tedious....It appears as those who don't want to comply are really just cheap bastridges.....

AKgringo - 8-26-2018 at 12:35 PM

In Jan 2001 I was headed down the mainland west coast, but left all my proof of citizenship at home. I was not able to get a permit for either my vehicle or myself, but was told that all of Baja was open without any documents!

It was eleven years before I returned, and because of the 911 attack, I knew I needed a passport, so I got one. When I reached the border I enquired about any new requirements for getting a tourist permit , and was told that none was needed in Baja.

Over the next two years I made three more trips, blissfully unaware that an FMM was required! It was in 2014 that I found this forum, and learned of it's existence, and requirement.

My point is, unless you know what to do, or who to ask, there is no indication at any crossing that I know of, to point you in the right direction!

I am also one of those who has never been asked for either the FMM or passport, other than when getting the FMM. Even the US border agents ask for "proof of citizenship".

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by AKgringo]

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I must have missed where John agreed with the law. I think you DD have been listening to yourself and others keep saying, it's the law, it's the law.

If anything, I think John is getting confused about the conflicting information that some of you are giving him by telling him get the FMM card, but also telling him, he is unlikely to be asked to show his FMM card. ( of course now some are claiming check points are being set up to check for FMM cards. I wonder what's the penalty anybody paid for not having a FMM card)

If I recall John's post, he didn't even have a passport, so how is he going to get the FMM card?

I'm not going to guess why John, doesn't have a passport, but others have complained about the cost, and some can't get a passport for other various legal reasons, or things like past child report.

And I'm here to tell guys like John, if you drive into Mexico, and aren't stopped at the border, you are good to go. You're likely to be stopped in Mexico, and asked to show your FMM card, and for sure, you will be able to get back into the US with just that driver's license if you're a US Citizen.

Of course if you listen to guys like DD, you would just stay home.

where have you been Joe? haha. better late than never i guess.

that's exactly why i was inquiring. i don't have a passport because i never needed one. at least not enough to justify the cost. i've been to TJ a few times, Ensenada even less, and literally nowhere else outside of the US. even when the put in effect the whole passport at the border thing, i was never hassled for just having my driver's license. maybe i got lucky, or maybe they just aren't looking for guys like me; white as snow and no criminal record. i met my girlfriend at a party in San Diego and she eventually wanted to me meet her parents, who live in San Quintin. surfing BajaNomad for travel information, i came across the FMM stuff which, upon further research yes, you need a valid passport for an FMM and hence the post. not really a question of cheapness, but i am not going to let paranoia set in from a bunch of hall monitors who would rather debate and point fingers, than listen to the question.
and that is a great point, and kind of answers the question more than anything... what is the cost of the fine for not having an FMM? i mean that fact that nobody has really said that they have been ever fined for not having one kind of says it all really.

John Harper - 8-26-2018 at 01:03 PM

At least you don't tear labels off mattresses and furniture, or run with scissors. That would be a serious scofflaw in my book. The feds never seem to mention those criminals, now do they?

John

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by John Harper]

DaliDali - 8-26-2018 at 01:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I must have missed where John agreed with the law. I think you DD have been listening to yourself and others keep saying, it's the law, it's the law.

If anything, I think John is getting confused about the conflicting information that some of you are giving him by telling him get the FMM card, but also telling him, he is unlikely to be asked to show his FMM card. ( of course now some are claiming check points are being set up to check for FMM cards. I wonder what's the penalty anybody paid for not having a FMM card)

If I recall John's post, he didn't even have a passport, so how is he going to get the FMM card?

I'm not going to guess why John, doesn't have a passport, but others have complained about the cost, and some can't get a passport for other various legal reasons, and for things like past child support or back taxes.

And I'm here to tell guys like John, if you drive into Mexico, and aren't stopped at the border, you are good to go. You're likely to be stopped in Mexico, and asked to show your FMM card, and for sure, you will be able to get back into the US with just that driver's license if you're a US Citizen.

Of course if you listen to guys like DD, you would just stay home.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

Or listen to Joe.....just a wink and a nod with "Do I really have to have a FMM"

Pffff

JohnGaltSpeaking...."i had never even heard of these things before. and of course they are the law. hell it says that right on the website and a link to that website would clearly end the discussion"

JGS knew the law....he said he saw the website...."clearly end the discussion"....
He chose to ignore that law, like Joe does, and run the gauntlet.

I don't care.....his choice....Joe's choice.
But don't come back on here one day and whine and hollar "I got jacked up for no FMM and Joe told me it would be ok with just a wink and a nod.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

willardguy - 8-26-2018 at 01:17 PM

could there be a reason mexico isn't over zealous about checking paperwork? this from Rodulfo Figueroa, mexico's top immigration official in baja.
"This is about putting our house in order," Figueroa said, according to the AP. "If the line becomes clogged up, we will just let everybody through. If we can't check everybody, we won't."

BajaTed - 8-26-2018 at 01:19 PM

A passport will expedite obtaining a "Real ID" type drivers license from whatever state your from.
If you want to get on one of those things called an airplane owned by an airline, you'll have to have one in 2020.
If you renew your drivers license through mail with the DMV, guess what, NO "Real ID" will be issued, you wasted your time.
Why do you think the CA DMV lines are around the block????
Its because of REAL ID and they got to take idiots who don't have a passport, and then present Birth Certificates for proof, that document now goes behind the counter to another room for verification, add ten minutes to each person.
My SENTRI & GOES with my Passport are worth their weight in gold, pity those in the future with out . The past now has consequences

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2018 at 01:37 PM

A passport will expedite obtaining a "Real ID" type drivers license from whatever state your from.
If you want to get on one of those things called an airplane owned by an airline, you'll have to have one in 2020.
If you renew your drivers license through mail with the DMV, guess what, NO "Real ID" will be issued, you wasted your time.
Why do you think the CA DMV lines are around the block????
Its because of REAL ID and they got to take idiots who don't have a passport, and then present Birth Certificates for proof, that document now goes behind the counter to another room for verification, add ten minutes to each person.
My SENTRI & GOES with my Passport are worth their weight in gold, pity those in the future with out . The past now has consequences

Oh man, it took me more than 6 hours, standing in line getting that "Real ID" in California, and I took my passcard, with me, so that wasn't the delay, and a long as your have a certified copy of a birth certificate that will work. The delay was me not making an appointment, and all the lying people who said they had an appointment when they probably didn't. It's the last time I play the sucker, because after a few hours of waiting, they only seemed to call mostly people with an appointments numbers, while I waited and waited.

Maybe, soon I will be able to cross into Mexico, with only my real ID drivers license, and leave my passport/passcard at home. Of course, If I forgot my passport, and I wanted to cross the border, I would not hesitate crossing with just a DL.

SFandH - 8-26-2018 at 01:40 PM

could there be a reason mexico isn't over zealous about checking paperwork? this from Rodulfo Figueroa, mexico's top immigration official in baja.
"This is about putting our house in order," Figueroa said, according to the AP. "If the line becomes clogged up, we will just let everybody through. If we can't check everybody, we won't."

And, I remember a few years ago the TJ, Rosarito, San Felipe tourist business owners were loudly complaining about the FMM requirement because they think it will hurt business by stopping day/weekend trippers from Southern California. I guess they have a point. And please, I'm not saying right or wrong, I'm just stating what I remember.

willardguy - 8-26-2018 at 01:45 PM

yup...bring back the "free zone", how many of the kids partying in rosarito stopped for a FMM anyway?

SFandH - 8-26-2018 at 01:51 PM

That makes sense. Have permanent checkpoints south of Ensenada and San Felipe and issue the FMMs there for those that didn't get them at the border.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by SFandH]

bajaguy - 8-26-2018 at 02:24 PM

Would rather see stiff fines and people being sent back to the border instead of getting a "free" pass

That makes sense. Have permanent checkpoints south of Ensenada and San Felipe and issue the FMMs there for those that didn't get them at the border.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by SFandH]

DaliDali - 8-26-2018 at 02:39 PM

That makes sense. Have permanent checkpoints south of Ensenada and San Felipe and issue the FMMs there for those that didn't get them at the border.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by SFandH]

I would rather see one at the entrances to Rosario Beach, where the SoCal weekend elites have beach condos and whine about 25 peso tacos.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

Udo - 8-26-2018 at 02:56 PM

You may choose not to believe this, but just South of Ensenada there was an immigration check point, and they used to issue FMMs on the spot. It is now used by Federal Police officers once in a while.

That makes sense. Have permanent checkpoints south of Ensenada and San Felipe and issue the FMMs there for those that didn't get them at the border.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by SFandH]

I would rather see one at the entrances to Rosario Beach, where the SoCal weekend elites have beach condos and whine about 25 peso tacos.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 04:08 PM

just curious, but why do so many people on here want checkpoints and FMMs? is there a civic reason to this, or do you guys just want less people in Baja? i am not being sarcastic or anything, just wondering. i mean before the FMMs, were you guys just miserable and waiting for tourist cards to be implemented?

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by JohnGaltSpeaking]

Enhanced ID and FMM

thebajarunner - 8-26-2018 at 04:32 PM

FMM- I don't get one because I want it
I figure that if I get into a crash I better have one or it might be off to the cross bar hotel for a while.

Enhanced ID in California
I went in to DMV last month (yes, with an appointment) to renew my license. When you get past a certain point they want you to take the written test and read the chart...... pretty dumb actually, they ought to make everyone prove that they can maneuver a roundabout and enter and exit a freeway.

Anyway, she asked if I wanted the enhanced license and I said, Of Course.
I handed her my passport card and she said, "I also need a utility bill with your address and your social security card."
I was astounded, to say the least!!
I have not seen my social security card since it got waterlogged in an old wallet and fell into tatters.
So, got my license, and will continue to fly with the passport card, since I was not smart enough to bring my PGE bill and the remains of my SS card.

JoeJustJoe - 8-26-2018 at 04:44 PM

California DMV has a list of what you need:
_____________________________

A DMV field office visit is required to apply for a REAL ID card. Applicants should make an appointment and must be prepared with the following documents:

✔ Proof of Identity: Such as a certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate, a valid U.S. passport, employment authorization document, permanent resident card or foreign passport with an approved form I-94.

✔ Proof of Social Security Number: Such as a Social Security card, W-2, or paystub with full SSN.

✔ California Residency Document: Such as a rental agreement, mortgage bill, utility bill, medical, employment or school document.

✔ Name Change Document: This may be required if your identity document is different from the name on your application. Such as a marriage certificate, divorce decree, other court document.

mtgoat666 - 8-26-2018 at 06:51 PM

Immigration check points (gestapo road blocks) are much more common on USA side of border. Hell, I get stopped most every time I am doing trips on the 5, 15 and 78. The storm troopers don’t care when I show them my fmm.

thebajarunner - 8-26-2018 at 06:54 PM

Immigration check points (gestapo road blocks) are much more common on USA side of border. Hell, I get stopped most every time I am doing trips on the 5, 15 and 78. The storm troopers don’t care when I show them my fmm.

Neither 5 nor 15 checkpoints have been operative for some time.
Maybe on a selected basis but I have made multiple trips through the past year with no surveillance. Plenty of MigraCars parked around, but not the old slow down and peer in the window stuff.

Still getting checked at Jamul coming out of Tecate however

TMW - 8-26-2018 at 07:51 PM

just curious, but why do so many people on here want checkpoints and FMMs? is there a civic reason to this, or do you guys just want less people in Baja? i am not being sarcastic or anything, just wondering. i mean before the FMMs, were you guys just miserable and waiting for tourist cards to be implemented?

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by JohnGaltSpeaking]

I doubt anyone really wants a checkpoint but they are there so we live with them.

As far as FMMs you are required by Mexican law to have one when you are in Baja. Do they ever get checked, very very very seldom. There is the belief that if in a wreck and you don't have one the Mexican Insurance is not good but that too is not correct. However since the laws of Mexico are enforced primarily by law enforcement officers and they change depending on their mood at the time it is probably a good ideal to get the FMM as a security blanket thing. In years past you did not need a tourist visa as they were commonly called if you did not pass San Felipe or Ensenada. Again it was not really enforced and when it was a few dollars took care of it. The bottom line is get one if you want to or don't if you don't want to just don't complain if you get in red tape by not having one.

willardguy - 8-26-2018 at 09:45 PM

That makes sense. Have permanent checkpoints south of Ensenada and San Felipe and issue the FMMs there for those that didn't get them at the border.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by SFandH]

I would rather see one at the entrances to Rosario Beach, where the SoCal weekend elites have beach condos and whine about 25 peso tacos.

[Edited on 8-26-2018 by DaliDali]

is this jackazz adorable or what! :yes:

JohnGaltSpeaking - 8-26-2018 at 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

there are literally people calling for checkpoints on this forum. look on the previous pages. that's why i was asking. i never understood the hall monitor mentality but it seems they grow up and now want to monitor people's FMMs. hahaha.

bajatrailrider - 8-27-2018 at 08:02 AM

No worry's on checking fmm as check points are run for less then a week then no more for a year. I was forced to get resadency here. As I ordered new Mex truck from dealer. When it comes in 3 months later they would not let me take it. Without Mex dl. Yes.your better off with fmm but many I know never got them.

DaliDali - 8-27-2018 at 08:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Many years ago, the tourist trade in Mexico was a shadow of what it is now.....the X-pat community was small and the need for a more stringent immigration policy was not a priority....and the need to keep track of who and where was not all that necessary. With Mexico being a transit point for all manners of bad actors from points south and east.....that need jumped up by leaps and bounds.

Now that MX is a top tourist destination and with a significantly larger expat community......MX has determined they need to keep better track of who is where, and to get a slice of the money, that implementing a stronger tracking system, via the various visas issued.

So they are "monitoring the hallways" more and more.
And still.......there are gringos, who either blatantly, or by some ignorance of the rules....don't get one.
No hall monitors......chaos.

MX requires one...to pimp it off as "I never get asked".."I don't need no stinking FMM" is just disrespectful of their rules.

It's NOT your country to do as you please and pimp off the established regs.

Do they need more immigration checks points?
From the amount of gringos who boast about beating the system." Do I really need this" "Can't you just let me go, I won't stay long", It could be a solid yes they do..either down the road or at the border. Not my call.

Although many foreign countries don't require a formal visa on arrival, one IS required to show a passport and have that passport stamped with the allowed term of stay until you must leave.
Visa waiver countries don't require a formal visa.....but DO require a passport.
A Canadian national cannot get into the USA without one......and a USA citizen cannot get into CA without one.

It's the norm around the world....show a passport to enter.
Mexico has stepped it up....and to just pimp this all off is very disrespectful and could result in actions that either relieve you of MORE of your money or freedoms of movement.

If you want to take the ugly American route and pimp it all off, have at it.

JoeJustJoe - 8-27-2018 at 09:29 AM