BajaNomad - Insurance doesn't cover Hwy 5 ??

Insurance doesn't cover Hwy 5 ??

philodog - 11-17-2018 at 07:37 PM

I get my insurance thru Vagabundos and I got a long email came from their insurance carrier, ADAVIS GLOBAL , with all sorts of info including road conditions. On their Hwy 5 section it said:

Hwy 5 north of Puertocitos to about halfway to San Felipe.

• All was fine until where the construction has begun now it has been flooded and
caused major problems’

• Approximately 10 bridges have collapsed before reaching Punta Final (end of the
newest section below Puertocitos).

• There are approximately 25 miles of dirt and gravel before reaching MX Hwy1

• This entire area it is not recommended for any vehicle without 4 wheel drive and
because the road isn’t currently maintained, your Mexico insurance policy states no
coverage will be afforded."

So if Hwy 5 isn't covered I'm assuming any dirt road in Baja is not covered. This is not good. Do any of the other insurance companies guarantee in writing that coverage is included for dirt roads? I had asked this question directly to Vagabundos last year and they assured me I was covered but since they are not the insurance company their assurance is worth squat if I had an accident.

motoged - 11-17-2018 at 07:50 PM

My experience over past 20 years of buying Mexican insurance offered by various carriers for trucks and motorcycles for use in Baja and mainland is that unpaved road travel is uninsured.....ya need pavement

.

Standard wording in all the policies I have reviewed/purchased.

Never needed to use it....the one time a bike was stolen in San Felipe but wasn't insured....$15,000 MP reward coughed it up a day later....worth every peso.

sancho - 11-17-2018 at 07:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by philodog

So if Hwy 5 isn't covered I'm assuming any dirt road in Baja is not covered. This is not good. Do any of the other insurance companies guarantee in writing that coverage is included for dirt roads? I had asked this question directly to Vagabundos last year and they assured me I was covered but since they are not the insurance company their assurance is worth squat if I had an accident.

I think that is standard language on Mex Ins Policies, not
covering off road, I assume non-asphalt surface. It is
sometime a bit of concern to read the 12 pages of fine print.
I agree the Ins Brokers, Travel Clubs, are not the final say
if push comes to shove

norte - 11-17-2018 at 08:14 PM

Bajabound says non-paved established roads are covered. 5 is a Federal hwy...paved or not. This is a new one.

motoged - 11-17-2018 at 08:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by norte

... non-paved established roads ...

Yeah, that wording is so malleable....

Would be interesting to hear from any Nomads with direct personal experience who had used their Mexican insurance successfully for a claim on such roads....or any unpaved road situation.

David K - 11-17-2018 at 08:30 PM

BajaBound.com for the win. They sponsor Baja Nomad and earn our patronage.
Discover Baja insurance is fine, too. They use the same insurance company as Baja Bound.
The highway south of San Felipe is maintained and detours were made immediatly after the bridges were damaged. Lots of traffic uses Hwy. 5, daily.
It is sad that Vagabundos is so far out of the loop on current conditions.

woody with a view - 11-18-2018 at 08:35 AM

Any road used for local traffic (dirt roads included) is considered “a road” and for Vags to say otherwise is BS. Get better insurance next time.

Now, when you go driving off that dirt road and get stuck in the sand below the high tide line you shouldn’t expect your insurance to cover the loss when the tide comes in. :light:

PaulW - 11-18-2018 at 08:59 AM

My liability insurance is covered anywhere in Mexico. No dirt road restrictions. That is the only Insurance I have and for sure it is good enough. All I want is a "keep out of jail policy"
The real question is why buy more?

Aldervale - 11-18-2018 at 09:29 AM

Hi PaulW

I think I know what your last post means but you could expound please ?

A U2U would work fine if you don't wish to post on the forum

Gracias

Aldervale

weebray - 11-18-2018 at 09:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aldervale

Hi PaulW

I think I know what your last post means but you could expound please ?

A U2U would work fine if you don't wish to post on the forum

Gracias

Aldervale

As do many others we carry ins. to protect people and property we may damage. It's called liability insurance. Don't bring or drive anything to Mexico you cannot afford to lose. Problem solved. If you expect to buy insurance from any company that will protect you under any circumstance from loss expect to pay dearly. Insurance is truly wonderful until you have to use it.

They're ALL GOOD ?

MrBillM - 11-18-2018 at 10:24 AM

Recommendations from those who have NOT ever had a claim or have solid knowledge of those who have ................................. are worthless.

Over the last 50-some years, I have had policies through (perhaps) a dozen or more carriers without a claim so they ALL qualify as OK.

Right ?

David K - 11-18-2018 at 10:41 AM

Not me anymore, but some here have vehicles that are still financed or leased. FULL COVERAGE is mandated. My State Farm policy will cover my truck in Mexico but only to 50 miles south of the borderline. It is sure comforting to know that my Baja Bound policy (with HDI Seguros) not only covers me for liability but my vehicle damage and covers if it is repaired in the United States. Plus LEGAL aid is included.
Once your vehicle is yours legally, then if you want to not have collision or theft coverage, well that is fine. As stated, liability is key.
We know there is a chance we will be jailed if anything or anyone is hurt, no matter who is at fault until the adjuster arrives to prove you are covered and can pay. Why would you not want this peace-of-mind?

willardguy - 11-18-2018 at 11:05 AM

insurance that doesn't cover you driving on a dirt road? you're better off just throwing your money in the harbor!

TMW - 11-18-2018 at 11:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

My liability insurance is covered anywhere in Mexico. No dirt road restrictions. That is the only Insurance I have and for sure it is good enough. All I want is a "keep out of jail policy"
The real question is why buy more?

What are you going to do if you total your vehicle in Mexico below the maximum distance US policy covers. I've totaled two vehicles in Mexico and had $6,000 damage to another. My Mexican Insurance thru Discover Baja paid for two and Allstate paid for the one totaled in Mexicali.

If you don't need coverage on your vehicle and only need the liability that's OK, especially if the vehicle is not worth much. At $250-$300 per year for full coverage I think it's a bargain for any vehicle worth a few thousand or more. If you have a lease or financing the vehicle it's mandatory as far as I know.

RnR - 11-18-2018 at 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by philodog

I get my insurance thru Vagabundos and I got a long email came from their insurance carrier, ADAVIS GLOBAL , with all sorts of info including road conditions.

Something doesn't sound right …..

I don't believe that ADAVis Global is Vagabundos current insurance carrier. I have a current insurance policy (liability only and issued about two weeks ago) from Vagabundos and the policy is issued by ABA Seguro.

ADAVis Global and Vagabundos had a serious 'falling out' about four years ago and it did not end well.

ADAVis apperently used Vagabundos old client list after the breakup to directly contact past Vagabundos customers in an attempt to sell them insurance directly. This went on for about two years. Some of the emails from ADAVis contained dis-information about the new Vagabundos insurance carriers. These emails to me from ADAVis stopped about a year ago.

My advice, call Vagabundos directly and ask them about the terms of the policy, the validity of the email, and if ADAVis Global is currently one of their insurance underwriters.

[Edited on 11-18-2018 by RnR]

motoged - 11-18-2018 at 01:09 PM

Good conversation....and let's not lose sight of OP's question regarding travel on non-paved road coverage....

Again, any first hand experiences?

Jack Swords - 11-18-2018 at 01:25 PM

I got hit by an uninsured driver on a dirt parking lot in La Paz. Vagabundos covered it with repairs in the USA. Noone asked about the surface. Need to call them about the dirt road thing....too many dirt roads in Baja that are main roads.

sancho - 11-18-2018 at 03:17 PM

Have a yr. old policy, ACE, which has been replaced by
Chubb thru Bajabound, under exclusions, states 'Damages
caused from traveling on unconventional or non-municipal
roads, Impasslble or rough roads' the policy does provide for coverage for. I assume other
Co's have similiar phrases. To put faith in
Insurance Co's, and to pretend that some verbal guarantee
can be counted on is a bit naive

mtgoat666 - 11-18-2018 at 04:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

BajaBound.com for the win. They sponsor Baja Nomad and earn our patronage.
Discover Baja insurance is fine, too. They use the same insurance company as Baja Bound.
The highway south of San Felipe is maintained and detours were made immediatly after the bridges were damaged. Lots of traffic uses Hwy. 5, daily.
It is sad that Vagabundos is so far out of the loop on current conditions.

Vagabundos is not the insurer, they are just salesmen/agent/middleman. They probably just repeat what the insurer says.
Read the policy, it is the contract you entered. The statements of the agents are not part of the contract unless you get those statements written into the contract. Nothing a salesmen says is enforceable unless you write the words into the contract.

Mexitron - 11-18-2018 at 04:21 PM

Long ago in the late 80s my friend drove off the dirt road in the mountains between San Vicente and the coast . Truck was totalled. Luckily my friend had been given a business card of a lawyer in Ensenada a couple weeks before (interesting, eh?) and we went to him before talking to the insurer. Back then they didn't cover 1. Driving on dirt and 2. Solo accidents. So my friend had to pay the lawyer, insurance agent, and state police off to get the insurance money to come through. I was with him at the meeting with the lawyer and state police, gotta say it was a little intimidating, lol! But that was 30 years ago.

philodog - 11-21-2018 at 12:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RnR

Quote: Originally posted by philodog

I get my insurance thru Vagabundos and I got a long email came from their insurance carrier, ADAVIS GLOBAL , with all sorts of info including road conditions.

RnR, you are correct! I didn't look at the actual insurance policy, just assumed it was Adavis but it IS ABA Seguro as you said. The bad news is in ABA's exclusions it says this:

XI. The losses or damages caused by
the Vehicle described in the cover
sheet of the policy caused for
using non-paved roads or which
conditions render them unusable.

So we're back to square one. Actually it's worse than Adavis since it specifically says ANY non paved road.

bajaguy - 11-21-2018 at 12:34 PM

Maybe if you have questions you should contact Geoff at Bajabound. He will give you the correct answer without trying to sell you anything

David K - 11-21-2018 at 04:34 PM

That wording philodog posted reads to me as saying if the vehicle breaks from unpaved roads then that is not covered. I get Mexican insurance for accident or theft coverage and not 'self-inflicted' road damage.

motoged - 11-21-2018 at 05:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

That wording philodog posted reads to me as saying if the vehicle breaks from unpaved roads then that is not covered. I get Mexican insurance for accident or theft coverage and not 'self-inflicted' road damage.

David,
What you have not done here is respond to the primary question presented regarding insurance coverage for unpaved roads. "Self-inflicted" comment is a bit snarky....perhaps getting hit by another vehicle on a dirt road could be seen as self-inflicted by
Goat....simply because of being off pavement in a truck is reserved only for knuckledraggers...but the rest of us would like clarification on the OP question.

Haven't you ever wondered if the accident insurance you buy covers you off paved roads? That is what this thread is really about.

To add to the quandry: Does Mexican insurance cover theft if vehicle is stolen while off a paved road or in a semi-remote area?

willardguy - 11-21-2018 at 05:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Maybe if you have questions you should contact Geoff at Bajabound. He will give you the correct answer without trying to sell you anything

well here's bajabound's reply to philodogs same question he asked a year ago.......

Got this response from Bajabound:

On the ACE terms and conditions you can find that information in the
Exclusions section, which are in sections 1.6.
The 12th exclusion states:

- Damages caused from traveling on nonconventional or non-municipal
roads.

On HDI's terms and conditions, the information is found in Section 4,
Clause 1.
The information reads:

- Loss or damages sustained or caused in the operation of the insured
vehicle off conventional roads or on roads not in good driving condition.
(Conventional Road shall be understood as a road adapted and/or designed to
be used by vehicles authorized to transport passengers on a private basis,
and on which there are reasonable signs of the normal transit of vehicles).

Conventional roads are roads that are normally transited, have signage, and
are on a map are generally considered conventional roads. Dirt roads may be
municipal as well if they have these characteristics. There is no coverage
on roads that are impassable.

mtgoat666 - 11-21-2018 at 06:09 PM

The internet chatter and sales pitches don’t mean anything. If you don’t understand your contract, you would best serve yourself by asking the other party you entered into contract. Ask you insurer to clarify your policy, don’t ask me or Dk or my kids or mother dear Abby. Ask your insurer! :light:

woody with a view - 11-21-2018 at 06:58 PM

Willard just confirmed the answer.

Let’s go on for another 7 pages and end up with someone talking about ..........

David K - 11-21-2018 at 10:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The question was responded to before I got here... ASK YOUR INSURANCE AGENT. Beyond that, we are just chatting around the Internet campfire. What I said was just (to me) is common sense, after reading of philodog's reply (from a Baja Geoff post long ago). "If your vehicle is damaged from driving on unmaintained roads then the insurance company isn't covering that". Seems pretty understandable to me.

DawnPatrol - 11-22-2018 at 06:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Not me anymore, but some here have vehicles that are still financed or leased. FULL COVERAGE is mandated. My State Farm policy will cover my truck in Mexico but only to 50 miles south of the borderline. It is sure comforting to know that my Baja Bound policy (with HDI Seguros) not only covers me for liability but my vehicle damage and covers if it is repaired in the United States. Plus LEGAL aid is included.
Once your vehicle is yours legally, then if you want to not have collision or theft coverage, well that is fine. As stated, liability is key.
We know there is a chance we will be jailed if anything or anyone is hurt, no matter who is at fault until the adjuster arrives to prove you are covered and can pay. Why would you not want this peace-of-mind?

David: You are partially correct on the State Farm Auto Policy (I have been an Agent for 35 years so I know it)

The answer is YES & NO

The SF Policy DOES cover you 50 miles South (No, not all the way to Ensenada)

It covers Physical Damage to your vehicle (theft & Vandalism (called Comprehensive) & Collision
&
****HUGE QUALIFIER**** Liability ****READ FURTHER****

Problem is Mexico DOES NOT RECOGNIZE US Liability!!!

If you rely on the Policy to keep you out of jail (or worse) you are sadly mistaken.
Without a Mexican Liability Policy that meets their liability limits you most likely will have your vehicle impounded and you will be incarcerated

***In my office I ALWAYS 100% of the time make sure my clients buy at least Mexican Liability Insurance no matter where they are going***

***And make sure the Mexican Policy includes LEGAL Representation****

The staff at BajaBound and Discover Baja can educate you more

OK any questions? LOL

(not yelling at you David or anyone else-- I like to use the ****

Cheers
Alan

Gscott - 11-22-2018 at 07:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

well here's bajabound's reply to philodogs same question he asked a year ago.......

Got this response from Bajabound:
On the ACE terms and conditions you can find that information in the
Exclusions section, which are in sections 1.6.
The 12th exclusion states:
- Damages caused from traveling on nonconventional or non-municipal
roads.
On HDI's terms and conditions, the information is found in Section 4,
Clause 1.
The information reads:
- Loss or damages sustained or caused in the operation of the insured
vehicle off conventional roads or on roads not in good driving condition.
Conventional roads are roads that are normally transited, have signage, and
are on a map are generally considered conventional roads. Dirt roads may be
municipal as well if they have these characteristics. There is no coverage
on roads that are impassable.

"normally transited" roads? "good driving condition"? "impassable"? Geeze.

According to whom? I just drove from San Javier to Comondu. So I guess it's passable and in good driving condition. But if you have problems it's neither and you are not covered!

chuckie - 11-22-2018 at 07:20 AM

Its been that way for a LONG time...Why is everyone so surprised? LOOOOOONG time ago, we endoed a Toyota truck while "exploring" the 500 course....Coverage was denied by both the Mexican and US Carriers.....Lesson learned after the fact, the hard way...If you gonna play, you gotta pay Cowboy up Kiddies...