BajaNomad - Attack the topic without attacking each other

Can you do it?

Can you ignore someone who comments negatively about you? Can you get your point across without derogatory comments directed at a specific person who posts here?

These questions can be rhetorical or taken at face value - your choice.

can you do it? well no but I certainly tip my hat to you that have a thicker layer of skin.....there's a large community of off road enthusiasts here that are characterized as a group of fat, toothless,beer bellied knuckledraggers by this one individual. yeah, we take exception.......if you don't, thats fine too. Braaaap!

MMc - 12-30-2018 at 08:35 PM

Introspection is foreign and painful for most here. It is so much easier to attack the person than the idea. Myself included.

imlost - 12-30-2018 at 09:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

can you do it? well no but I certainly tip my hat to you that have a thicker layer of skin.....

I appreciate that you were able to be honest enough to answer the question with a "no".

I certainly think there's a time and place to stand your ground and confront those who attack you, but I wonder what it would be like if you/we just didn't give them an audience.

In my city, the neo N-zi's rally occasionally. I wonder if no one showed up to give them an audience, if they would actually come to spout their hate. Seriously; send the TV reporters somewhere else, and protest them silently by staying at home. They're looking for a fight. Why give them what they want?

John Harper - 12-31-2018 at 06:17 AM

In my city, the neo N-zi's rally occasionally. I wonder if no one showed up to give them an audience, if they would actually come to spout their hate. Seriously; send the TV reporters somewhere else, and protest them silently by staying at home. They're looking for a fight. Why give them what they want?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Edmund Burke

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 12-31-2018 at 06:35 AM

The news must continue to cover trump rallies. People need to know about trump, including the hate he spouts at his rallies.

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 07:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

The news must continue to cover trump rallies. People need to know about trump, including the hate he spouts at his rallies.

Pushing for people to do the right thing...….HATE
Asking countries to pay their fair share.....HATE
Wanting countries do be fair in trade.....HATE
Working to put America first......HATE
Pushing to keep Americans safe......HATE

When you can't beat the policies, sound the alarm it's all HATE, RACIST and BIGOTED, to stoke FEAR in the masses......every day all day.....for the last two years.

And when that isn't doing the job, attack the family, attack Mar-a-Lago, attack orange hair, attack the press secretary, attack the DHS secretary, attack ICE, attack the CBP, attack a Senator and his wife.

Attack attack attack

https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/17/republicans-attacked-2018...

While the ire of Trumps HATE towards blacks, the policies of all that HATE, ended up with blacks...........lowest unemployment figures EVER.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/06/01/news/economy/black-unemploy...

His HATE towards Latinos resulted in historically low unemployment rates.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/28/latino-unemp...

The "misogyny" HATE of women...saw them GAIN in the Trump economy.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/10/02/women_...

But by GAWD.........what a HATER he is.
Imagine what TRUE LOVE would be........

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by DaliDali]

imlost - 12-31-2018 at 08:28 AM

Dali,
When someone at the party spits in the punch bowl, it doesn't make the mixture more palatable to know that the only thing there is to drink is "mostly punch".

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by imlost]

JoeJustJoe - 12-31-2018 at 09:40 AM

Imlost wrote: "That's not at all what I'm saying. I believe that a lot supporters of the wall have not put a lot of thought in to the reason(s) they support it, and many of them support it only because they're being led to believe that it will be beneficial. It's undeniable that some them are racially motivated. My rhetorical question remains the same: If you're a supporter of the wall, why? Again, 'Examine your motivation'.
_________________________

Imlost, now you're implying they are stupid, if our right-wing brothers, support the wall. Once, again I would agree with you, but would not say it that way, however, I could once again see conservative wall builders, take exception to you posts, because they do not believe they are being led.

You have a well meaning thread, but like I said, nobody is innocent, yet threads like this seem to attract the most guilty.

I take the Jesus, approach, "He that is without sin among you, let them first cast a stone." ( OK I changed a few words)

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

You Don't need a Weatherman to KNOW ..................

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 09:59 AM

............ Which way Joe's gonna BLOW !

imlost - 12-31-2018 at 10:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Imlost wrote: "That's not at all what I'm saying. I believe that a lot supporters of the wall have not put a lot of thought in to the reason(s) they support it, and many of them support it only because they're being led to believe that it will be beneficial. It's undeniable that some them are racially motivated. My rhetorical question remains the same: If you're a supporter of the wall, why? Again, 'Examine your motivation'.
_________________________

Imlost, now you're implying they are stupid, if our right-wing brothers, support the wall. Once, again I would agree with you, but would not say it that way, however, I could once again see conservative wall builders, take exception to you posts, because they do not believe they are being led.

You have a well meaning thread, but like I said, nobody is innocent, yet threads like this seem to attract the most guilty.

I take the Jesus, approach, "He that is without sin among you, let them first cast a stone." ( OK I changed a few words)

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

Some of them are stupid, as are some on the left. It's not for me to point that out to specific individual. People shouldn't be silent about what they believe in, but I believe you can get people to think about their actions without lobbing personal insults. The point of this thread: 'Attack a topic, without attacking each other'. I don't think it's at all necessary to throw stones in the first place.

Alm - 12-31-2018 at 11:01 AM

Can you get your point across without derogatory comments directed at a specific person who posts here?

... and what is your point, may I ask? Sounds like a poll to me - not always a good idea, especially when it's not anonymous. So, I'll respond in general terms.

Getting the point across, i.e. staying on the subject AND providing a meaningful input is a 2-part task (parts separated with "AND").

Staying on the subject - possibly.
Providing a meaningful input requires knowledge of the subject and adequate communication skills - again, one may possess the knowledge but not able to express himself.

Finally, when you've managed to post your "point" in competent and civilized form, - if the audience will reject it for no reason and without explanations, then you didn't get the point across.

The only thing that people of this particular audience have in common is - they spend some time in Baja. Chances that majority won't know or won't be interested in what you are talking about, are very high, unless you ask simple questions like "What is the weather now in town A". When people are not interested, they are bored. When they are bored, they hijack the thread and then absolutely anything may happen.

Drawing a Line

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 12:00 PM

We can't make fun of Orange Hair (and Skin) ?

Drats !

BTW, Low unemployment doesn't (necessarily) reflect love. Hey, Ol' Massa kept his Blacks working, too.

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 12:27 PM

We can't make fun of Orange Hair (and Skin) ?

Drats !

BTW, Low unemployment doesn't (necessarily) reflect love. Hey, Ol' Massa kept his Blacks working, too.

Sure you can, but if that dynamic follows true, so can one poke fun at black/brown hair and skin with impunity yes? All in fun right?

Obama year by year black unemployment numbers

2009 low 12.7% high 16.1%

2010 low 15.2% high 16.8%

2011 low 14.6% high 16.5%

2012 low 13.3% high 14.5%

2013 low 12.3% high 14.2%

2014 low 10.6% high 12.1%

2015 low 8.5% high 10.4%

2016 low 7.9% high 8.9%

Trending down at 7.9%

Trump...2017 low 6.8% high 8.1%

2018 low 5.9% high 7.7%

Trending down at 5.9% Nov 2018

No judgements.....pure numbers.
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006

drzura - 12-31-2018 at 12:35 PM

It does get pretty boring reading left wing troll posts on this site. In my opinion, these keyboard warriors are probably alcoholics who have nothing to do all day other than watch Rachel Madcow all day on MSNBC and stew in their own hate and anger, so let them have their fun. 😁

JoeJustJoe - 12-31-2018 at 12:39 PM

It does get pretty boring reading left wing troll posts on this site. In my opinion, these keyboard warriors are probably alcoholics who have nothing to do all day other than watch Rachel Madcow all day on MSNBC and stew in their own hate and anger, so let them have their fun. 😁

How about the right-wing trolls on this site, where there is a majority that lean to the far-right, because of their demographic, of being in the dying off majority.

You will find, the posts you don't like the most, are the posts you don't agree with.

Bubba - 12-31-2018 at 01:31 PM

We can't make fun of Orange Hair (and Skin) ?

Drats !

BTW, Low unemployment doesn't (necessarily) reflect love. Hey, Ol' Massa kept his Blacks working, too.

You're presenting this Liberals with facts, you should know better than that!

Alm - 12-31-2018 at 01:45 PM

The development of events have successfully confirmed my conclusions - when the question is not clear, the answers are all over. Was fun to read though.

imlost - 12-31-2018 at 02:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

The development of events have successfully confirmed my conclusions - when the question is not clear, the answers are all over. Was fun to read though.

Sorry, Alm. I thought you were joking when you asked me, "What is your point...? I thought it was plainly obvious. I'll state it in more simple terms: I don't believe it's necessary to communicate on this forum by using personal attacks. The question is proposed in the very first post.

Gettin' on Down

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 02:00 PM

So ........................ the current unemployment level is the continuation of a multi-year downward trend ?

Resulting in a substantial increase in lower-wage jobs benefiting minorities ?

OK.

BUT, it's NOT LOVE !

There was pretty low (near zero ?) Black unemployment in the 19th century prewar South.

BajaMama - 12-31-2018 at 02:01 PM

I hear you loud and clear! I don't come onto this forum as much as I used due to increased mean spiritedness. I wish members could keep their arguments to the topic (and off each other) with solid evidence and well thought opinion to back up a differing point of view.

drzura - 12-31-2018 at 03:17 PM

If people want a better paying wage, they need to develop skills that are in demand. If you only have skills to work at McDonalds, then more than likely, you're going to get paid minimum wage. If you have three kids by the time you're 19 and no daddies around to help provide support, more than likely, you're going to work for minimum wage. Snowflakes and their entitled mentality...... :no:

So ........................ the current unemployment level is the continuation of a multi-year downward trend ?

Resulting in a substantial increase in lower-wage jobs benefiting minorities ?

OK.

BUT, it's NOT LOVE !

There was pretty low (near zero ?) Black unemployment in the 19th century prewar South.

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 03:23 PM

Wages are determined by the old standard.....

Supply and demand.

When pork bellies are in short supply, the prices rise.

When heroin is everywhere, prices go down.

And so it goes with wages...….it's like MAGIC!!!

mtgoat666 - 12-31-2018 at 03:50 PM

If people want a better paying wage, they need to develop skills that are in demand. If you only have skills to work at McDonalds, then more than likely, you're going to get paid minimum wage. If you have three kids by the time you're 19 and no daddies around to help provide support, more than likely, you're going to work for minimum wage. Snowflakes and their entitled mentality...... :no:

But after corporate america shipped all the manufacturing jobs to asia, the only jobs left are service jobs serving the executives of corporate america that seemed to have not exported their own jobs while exporting everyone elses jobs.

John Harper - 12-31-2018 at 04:01 PM

Wages are determined by the old standard.....

Supply and demand.

When pork bellies are in short supply, the prices rise.

When heroin is everywhere, prices go down.

And so it goes with wages...….it's like MAGIC!!!

Unfortunately, whether people earn enough from work or not, or even have jobs, they all still need food, clean water, health care, education, and shelter. Any good solution to those problems? Or, just let the starving/sick/homeless masses fend for themselves? Wish I had an easy solution to this "human" condition to offer, but I don't. I am always open to a good idea, however. I don't think having people turn back into hunter-gatherers is a way forward.

John

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Yes John, everyone needs food and all manners of sustenance.

Everyone has an opportunity to do just that and more, as much more as their ambitions take them.

The key component is "opportunity".

If some people don't, or won't, take that opportunity to put bread on the table, like you and I did, what to do about them?

Please don't confuse won't/don't, with can't..by reasons of age or disability.

Solutions?......damn few.
I'ts either shovel more money at it, or push for a higher level of taking responsibility for one's slot in life, instead of waiting for someone else to come along and give them what they won't do for themselves.

I tend to fall on the side of more personal responsibilty, over depending on someone else.
Where does John come in?

motoged - 12-31-2018 at 04:24 PM

Careful, John....Dali might be setting you up....and if you don't respond he will call you a liar....he runs a mug's game under the cover of civility.

Alm - 12-31-2018 at 04:32 PM

Nope, no jokes.
Questions in the post #1 were:

"Can you do it?
Can you ignore someone who comments negatively about you?
Can you get your point across without derogatory comments directed at a specific person who posts here?"

Rather philosophical and unclear, isn't it... Was it an invitation for everybody to give an open self-evaluation of his/her ability to communicate regardless of the subject, or was it referring to some insults made personally to you here in the past, or something else. Anyway, I tried to answer. My mistake, probably. Roger and out.

imlost - 12-31-2018 at 05:52 PM

I hope your last sentence is in jest.

My car and my house didn't cost taxpayers 20 billion dollars to build (and that's likely a very low estimate).

If border crossing isn't the main way illegal immigrants get to the US, doesn't it make sense to fix the major "hole" before we even consider spending $20bn+ on something that can be easily scaled with a ladder?

drzura - 12-31-2018 at 06:03 PM

Like I eluded to, the wall should be only one piece of the puzzle to border security. If the government can spend $1 trillion on the F35 fighter jet, they should be able to print $20 billion for a wall. Mandatory e-verify and hefty fines for companies who employ "undocumented individuals" needs to be enforced as well. As for my last sentence you mention, I often find left wing loons to be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Take Leonardo Dicaprio or Vice President Al Bore, who bee-otch about the state of the environment and here they are flying around the world in private Boeing 737 jets to give their hypocritical million dollar speeches. Maybe they should take a commercial flight and reduce the amount of green houses gasses they emit. It might help the environment and even help their "cause". Or, the people who live in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard who preach about green energy but when wind mills used for power generation are installed within eye sight of their mansions they want them removed because they take away from the "natural beauty" of the land. Does the saying "do as i say, not as I do" come to mind?

I hope your last sentence is in jest.

My car and my house didn't cost taxpayers 20 billion dollars to build (and that's likely a very low estimate).

If border crossing isn't the main way illegal immigrants get to the US, doesn't it make sense to fix the major "hole" before we even consider spending $20bn+ on something that can be easily scaled with a ladder?

imlost - 12-31-2018 at 06:16 PM

Like I eluded to, the wall should be only one piece of the puzzle to border security. If the government can spend $1 trillion on the F35 fighter jet, they should be able to print $20 billion for a wall. Mandatory e-verify and hefty fines for companies who employ "undocumented individuals" needs to be enforced as well. As for my last sentence you mention, I often find left wing loons to be the biggest hypocrites of them all. Take Leonardo Dicaprio or Vice President Al Bore, who bee-otch about the state of the environment and here they are flying around the world in private Boeing 737 jets to give their hypocritical million dollar speeches. Maybe they should take a commercial flight and reduce the amount of green houses gasses they emit. It might help the environment and even help their "cause". Or, the people who live in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard who preach about green energy but when wind mills used for power generation are installed within eye sight of their mansions they want them removed because they take away from the "natural beauty" of the land. Does the saying "do as i say, not as I do" come to mind?

The problem is not the money, it's that the majority believes that it's not money well spent.

I'm not going to follow you all the way down the road you've gone (regarding hypocrisy), but I will respond simply by saying that we're all guilty of what you're describing. Even the keyboard you're pounding is pollution. Unless we're truly living in harmony with nature, we're contributing to the problem. If you were an affluent/influential person, wouldn't you try to help the problem?

imlost - 12-31-2018 at 06:19 PM

Happy New Year, everyone. Thank you for trying to keep this conversation somewhat civil. It has been very nice for a change.

drzura - 12-31-2018 at 06:27 PM

About the being affluent/influential person part, they are doing exactly the opposite what they preach. For the most part, I think people see that and tune them out because of it. If they truly want to be influential, they should "walk the road they preach", otherwise, they are just contributing to green house gasses by opening their trap. If I see Leonardo DiCaprio riding a bike to work or flying commercial air, then I'll listen to his opinion.

DaliDali - 12-31-2018 at 06:45 PM

The problem is not the money, it's that the majority believes that it's not money well spent.

Let's do some math.....on New Years eve.

Politifact says...

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan...

Scroll down to "our ruling"

"The White House claimed that "current immigration policy imposes as much as $300 billion annually in net fiscal costs on U.S. taxpayers."

"A study from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine analyzed the fiscal impact of immigration under different scenarios. Under some assumptions, the fiscal burden was $279 billion, but $43 billion in other scenarios"

Costs associated with illegal aliens is somewhere between $279 billion a year to $43 billion a year.
Wide spread no doubt.
For grins....let's say only 1/3rd of the $279 is a valid figure.

One third of $279 bllion a year in costs of all manners of illegal aliens is $92 billion a year

Add in the "untangible" costs of the added crime and dangerous drugs to the mix. Costs unknown.....what is a human life worth?

I am wondering at what price point (including the crime and drugs) does it become "worth it" to construct a wall?

A wall that has been proven to work in the San Diego and Yuma sectors.

No judgments one way or the other...just some numbers.

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by DaliDali]

[Edited on 1-1-2019 by DaliDali]

When You Wish Upon a Wall - Que Sera Sera

MrBillM - 12-31-2018 at 07:34 PM

BUT, barring some Magical Mysterious Metamorphosis ...................... It will be beyond 2020. IF at ALL.

There's only downside for the New and improved(?) Dem House giving it up to Dirtbag Don's Imperial Con.

drzura - 12-31-2018 at 07:58 PM

If that's the case and the wall will not be built, or at least a decent portion of it, hopefully the government stays shut down.

BUT, barring some Magical Mysterious Metamorphosis ...................... It will be beyond 2020. IF at ALL.

There's only downside for the New and improved(?) Dem House giving it up to Dirtbag Don's Imperial Con.

drzura - 12-31-2018 at 08:25 PM

Speaking of cherry picked sources, a study was conducted and it was determined that illegal aliens costs states approximately $89 billion a year and the federal government $46 billion. These costs include resources used for education, health care, law enforcement and welfare. I think $25 billion to have a wall built would save all of us tax payers a pretty penny while providing a good rate on return on invested capital (ROIC). That should make everyone happy, even you.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/map-illegal-immigration-c...

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe