BajaNomad

Angry pangas attack Sea Sheppard

fishbuck - 2-3-2019 at 03:08 PM

Sounds like 20 or so pangas got frustrated that they can't poach and ruin the enviornment attacked Sea Sheppard.
Sounds like they got drunk and threw empty bottles and other trash.
Might have been a small harmless fire set.
Pretty comical...

Save the whales

[Edited on 2-3-2019 by fishbuck]

JZ - 2-3-2019 at 03:10 PM

Link?

AKgringo - 2-3-2019 at 03:21 PM

Comical?

fishbuck - 2-3-2019 at 03:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  
Comical?


Well, it wasn't exactly a well organized comando raid...
Typical drunk frustrated (fill in the blank) blowing off steam in a fairly harmless manner.
A few broken windows...

tobias - 2-3-2019 at 04:39 PM

ABC is reporting molotov c-cktail fire on the hull

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-03/sea-shepherd-attacked...

You have to admit , the kid that tossed that rock had one hell of an arm.
Moving boat
Moving target
Getting hit with a water cannon
Still getting off a good shot.

David K - 2-3-2019 at 04:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tobias  
ABC is reporting molotov c-cktail fire on the hull

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-03/sea-shepherd-attacked...

You have to admit , the kid that tossed that rock had one hell of an arm.
Moving boat
Moving target
Getting hit with a water cannon
Still getting off a good shot.


Wow!
So the Sea Shepard is now doing to these fishermen the same thing the Japanese whaling boats were doing to the Sea Shepards?
:?:

fishbuck - 2-3-2019 at 05:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tobias  
ABC is reporting molotov c-cktail fire on the hull

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-03/sea-shepherd-attacked...

You have to admit , the kid that tossed that rock had one hell of an arm.
Moving boat
Moving target
Getting hit with a water cannon
Still getting off a good shot.


Yep

John Harper - 2-3-2019 at 06:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tobias  
You have to admit , the kid that tossed that rock had one hell of an arm.


Hopefully the Dodgers sign him to a minor league contract.

John

Lee - 2-3-2019 at 07:19 PM

Hope this doesn't sound insensitive. Shoot them.

willardguy - 2-3-2019 at 09:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Hope this doesn't sound insensitive. Shoot them.


which ones?

sancho - 2-3-2019 at 09:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Hope this doesn't sound insensitive. Shoot them.







Local San Felipe fisherman, having been fishing for generations,
having a foreign flagged vessel determining there ability to
feed there families. Doesn't sound right to me. But neither
does driving a species to extinction. Not sure the Mex Govt wants non Mex citizens shooting there populace

advrider - 2-4-2019 at 08:33 AM

Well said, Sancho! No easy fix or solution for a tough problem, lots of passion on both sides of the issue.

weebray - 2-4-2019 at 08:46 AM

Fishermen are not to be trusted as stewards of the resource. No more than loggers are to be trusted protecting trees. Sea Sheppard is here at the request of the resource-limited Mexican government. They are enforcing the law.

motoged - 2-4-2019 at 10:22 AM

It is interesting that some folks think that a neighbour has no right to comment on or become involved in an issue of concern when a neighbour is slowly ruining a neighbourhood through neglect, malpractice, or disrespect.

The planet is a global village so we ALL have a say in the concerns that come up.


Quote: Originally posted by sancho  
Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Hope this doesn't sound insensitive. Shoot them.







Local San Felipe fisherman, having been fishing for generations,
having a foreign flagged vessel determining there ability to
feed there families. Doesn't sound right to me. But neither
does driving a species to extinction. Not sure the Mex Govt wants non Mex citizens shooting there populace

Don Jorge - 2-4-2019 at 11:02 AM

Sea Shepard appears to be a de facto mercenary.

Lost is the simple fact that fresh water flows from Mexico's northern neighbor via the Colorado River are practically nil. This has had a profound effect on the ecology of the northern Sea of Cortez. Some would argue or hypothesize that this lack of fresh water is the real problem in the northern Sea of Cortez, not poaching.




caj13 - 2-4-2019 at 11:03 AM

San Felipe fishermen made their own beds. they overfished for years, and now their stocks are below a sustainable level.

So their fix is to go after an endangered fish - because the bladder of that fish is suposed to make Asians D#cks hard. and along the way, besides wiping out the totuaba, they have pretty much extirpated the indiginous vaquita.

They are not fishing to sustain their families, they fish to try and get rich, but that never happens because they are pawns in the hands of the misddlemen, who manipulate them to go to war against those trying to protect the resource.


after the totuaba is gone - what next - how do the fishermen make their living then?

San Felipes economic future depended on wise management of their resources, they blew it, and now have to live in the nest they fouled.

Oh yeah, one more thing: Turns out that legit San Felipe fisherman are being paid 2K a month to not fish . I could live pretty well in San felipe on 2K per month, particulalry if I don't have to buy boat fuel, nets etc! doesn't sound like they should be starving!



[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]

[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]

weebray - 2-4-2019 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
San Felipe fishermen made their own beds. they overfished for years, and now their stocks are below a sustainable level.

So their fix is to go after an endangered fish - because the bladder of that fish is suposed to make Asians D#cks hard. and along the way, besides wiping out the totuaba, they have pretty much extirpated the indiginous vaquita.

They are not fishing to sustain their families, they fish to try and get rich, but that never happens because they are pawns in the hands of the misddlemen, who manipulate them to go to war against those trying to protect the resource.

after the totuaba is gone - what next - how do the fishermen make their living then?

San Felipes economic future depended on wise management of their resources, they blew it, and now have to live in the nest they fouled.


Word

norte - 2-4-2019 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
San Felipe fishermen made their own beds. they overfished for years, and now their stocks are below a sustainable level.

So their fix is to go after an endangered fish - because the bladder of that fish is suposed to make Asians D#cks hard. and along the way, besides wiping out the totuaba, they have pretty much extirpated the indiginous vaquita.

They are not fishing to sustain their families, they fish to try and get rich, but that never happens because they are pawns in the hands of the misddlemen, who manipulate them to go to war against those trying to protect the resource.


after the totuaba is gone - what next - how do the fishermen make their living then?

San Felipes economic future depended on wise management of their resources, they blew it, and now have to live in the nest they fouled.

Oh yeah, one more thing: Turns out that legit San Felipe fisherman are being paid 2K a month to not fish . I could live pretty well in San felipe on 2K per month, particulalry if I don't have to buy boat fuel, nets etc! doesn't sound like they should be starving!



[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]

[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]


The cartels are the ones getting rich....and the head of the coop....Spend a little time the and see how Sunshine lives.

caj13 - 2-5-2019 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by norte  
Quote: Originally posted by caj13  


[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]


The cartels are the ones getting rich....and the head of the coop....Spend a little time the and see how Sunshine lives.


Thanks for making my point for me. Exactly right, illegally fishing for totuaba doesn't make the fishermen rich, it makes the cartel rich. so why would you as a fisherman take all the risk, and get so little of the reward?

Lee - 2-5-2019 at 12:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
Quote: Originally posted by norte  
Quote: Originally posted by caj13  


[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]


The cartels are the ones getting rich....and the head of the coop....Spend a little time the and see how Sunshine lives.


Thanks for making my point for me. Exactly right, illegally fishing for totuaba doesn't make the fishermen rich, it makes the cartel rich. so why would you as a fisherman take all the risk, and get so little of the reward?


Why? According to alm, they're dumb.

Or, an implied threat if fishermen don't cooperate.

Waiting for the fishermen to show up with rifles.

Maybe trying to earn a living. That's what Tio Tom says when I asked him why the gill nets were strung along Pedrito beach.

''They're just trying to earn a living.''

History has Repeatedly Shown .....................

MrBillM - 2-5-2019 at 01:57 PM

That the commercial harvesters of ANY resource are NOT to be trusted with maintaining the continued health of said resource. Absent controls, in self-interest, they will harvest to extinction.

caj13 - 2-5-2019 at 02:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
[

''They're just trying to earn a living.''


The whole "just making a living" thing doesn't fly, they are getting paid 2K per month by the Mexican gov to not fish. (the gov says 3.5 K, the fishermen say about 2 K), either way, not a bad way to make a living in San felipe, don't go fishing, save the fuel, wear and tear and equipment costs, go pick up your check!

lewmt - 2-5-2019 at 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
That the commercial harvesters of ANY resource are NOT to be trusted with maintaining the continued health of said resource. Absent controls, in self-interest, they will harvest to extinction.


Crock of S. Look at the coop in Bahia Asuncion or La Bocana & they have figured out an excellent balance of harvest & income. Here in my area of the US commercial harvest of timber was once overdone but time & resource education has taught that a well managed resource can be commercially viable as well as healthier overall for that resource. Where the do-gooders have stopped all commercial logging the worst fires and least healthy forests live.

Its really sad that there is such a bounty on such a precious resource as the totuaba. The predators really are the Asians who would pay such a ridiculous premium for them. The answer lies somewhere in better education of all parties & continued enforcement. Thanks to the Sea Shepherd for being there

[Edited on 2-5-2019 by lewmt]

Excellent point

thebajarunner - 2-5-2019 at 04:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  
Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
That the commercial harvesters of ANY resource are NOT to be trusted with maintaining the continued health of said resource. Absent controls, in self-interest, they will harvest to extinction.


Crock of S. Look at the coop in Bahia Asuncion or La Bocana & they have figured out an excellent balance of harvest & income. Here in my area of the US commercial harvest of timber was once overdone but time & resource education has taught that a well managed resource can be commercially viable as well as healthier overall for that resource. Where the do-gooders have stopped all commercial logging the worst fires and least healthy forests live.

Its really sad that there is such a bounty on such a precious resource as the totuaba. The predators really are the Asians who would pay such a ridiculous premium for them. The answer lies somewhere in better education of all parties & continued enforcement. Thanks to the Sea Shepherd for being there

[Edited on 2-5-2019 by lewmt]


Last summer we camped up on the bluffs at Punta Falsa.
The "Security Patrol" guy came by several times in the night, and he was not there for our security.
No..... those folks up there are protecting their precious abalone.
Good for them,
Shame shame shame on the greedy dudes on the Sea of Cortez!!

Yeah, Sure, OK

MrBillM - 2-5-2019 at 07:07 PM

" ............ Here in my area of the US commercial harvest of timber was once overdone but time & resource education has taught that a well managed resource can be commercially viable as well as healthier overall for that resource ..........."

Not to mention Government regulation.

joerover - 2-5-2019 at 07:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=123&v=IsA9pa...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTMnwr63LIM

Who wants to find the old link about the pangas being burned in San Felipe?
Was that ospreys story?

[Edited on 2-6-2019 by joerover]

bajadogs - 2-6-2019 at 12:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Wow!
So the Sea Shepard is now doing to these fishermen the same thing the Japanese whaling boats were doing to the Sea Shepards?
:?:


Señor David,
It is spelled "Sea Shepherd". How do you compare Japanese whalers to Sea Shepherd? How CAN you? The tactics? Do you have a clue what they (Japanese whalers and Sea Shepherd) are doing? Do you know the law? Do you know why there are laws? Do you think there should be no laws or limits or enforcement or consequences? Sorry for all the questions, I don't get your point. Politically motivated I assume.

Oh - EDIT : These are not fishermen, they are poachers. Rock and molotov c-cktail throwing poachers.

[Edited on 2-6-2019 by bajadogs]

[Edited on 2-6-2019 by bajadogs]

David K - 2-6-2019 at 07:23 AM

The thread spells it "Sea Sheppard" so that's two wrongs!
I was only commenting on the use of water cannons.

motoged - 2-6-2019 at 09:50 AM

David,
Try to answer his questions, please. They are relevant to the conversation.

David K - 2-6-2019 at 09:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
David,
Try to answer his questions, please. They are relevant to the conversation.


I did:
"I was only commenting on the use of water cannons."
No politics, just what is obviously seen.

caj13 - 2-6-2019 at 10:19 AM

yup, so a soldier defending his country using his gun is the same thing as a murderer using a gun to kill his victim, at least according to David!

[Edited on 2-6-2019 by caj13]

Lee - 2-6-2019 at 10:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
David,
Try to answer his questions, please. They are relevant to the conversation.


I did:
"I was only commenting on the use of water cannons."
No politics, just what is obviously seen.


Water cannons not OK against poachers? I think rubber bullets are in order.

Everything is politically driven with DK. Unfortunate.

David K - 2-6-2019 at 01:05 PM

Did I say it was ok or not ok? NO.
I only mentioned that Sea Sheppard/ Shepard/ Shepherd (lol) were using the SAME methods as had been used upon them.
That's all!

Tomas Tierra - 2-6-2019 at 02:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Jorge  
Sea Shepard appears to be a de facto mercenary.

Lost is the simple fact that fresh water flows from Mexico's northern neighbor via the Colorado River are practically nil. This has had a profound effect on the ecology of the northern Sea of Cortez. Some would argue or hypothesize that this lack of fresh water is the real problem in the northern Sea of Cortez, not poaching.





THIS!

I was ripped to shreds and called every name in the book for merely suggesting this in a common sense manner on the FB Baja Site..

Has to be PART of the problem

TT


bajadogs - 2-6-2019 at 05:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
yup, so a soldier defending his country using his gun is the same thing as a murderer using a gun to kill his victim, at least according to David!

[Edited on 2-6-2019 by caj13]


Or like opining on a firefighter forum with an observation that they fought the fires in Paradise City using the same tactics putting out fires as the state troopers in Mississippi on civil rights activists in the 60's. They are so similar right?

David, Do you understand why your comment seems political?Can you please give us your opinion on Sea Shepherd? My next donation to SS will be in your name. BTW - if this goes OFF-TOPIC or is deleted, it is because of you, not me. This IS Baja related.

Illegal fishing remains a serious threat to the vaquita

joerover - 2-6-2019 at 06:50 PM

https://porpoise.org/2016/07/hope-vaquita-mexico-bans-gill-n...
Mexico’s latest step, which also includes a ban on night fishing in the Sea of Cortez, is a huge success for conservationists. But it will likely not be enough on its own to guarantee the vaquita’s recovery. Illegal fishing for a large species of fish, the totoaba, remains a threat to the vaquita’s survival and is believed to be responsible for its decline in recent years. The totoaba is sought after for its swim bladder to satisfy a high demand in Asia, where it is believed to have medicinal properties. The high street value of $10,000 or more per kilogram has encouraged poachers in Mexico to ignore the risk of getting caught. This is not likely to change, unless serious enforcement measures are taken.

Davisk distracted you with weather nonfacts so he could fish at night:dudette:

joerover - 2-6-2019 at 07:09 PM

Osprey the one and only good typist on bajanomad,
Where is he know'

Quote: Originally posted by Osprey  
Espiritu Del Mar

It started in the Northern Gulf, up near San Felipe but it took a while for people to wake up to that. Lots of news over the years in San Diego papers and border town Mexican papers about the plight of the Vaquita, the overfishing that wiped out the shrimp and the fortunes being made in selling parts of the Totuava. When the U.S. began to pay the Mexican fishermen not to fish in the Northern Gulf, all the papers were quiet about how much was paid and even quieter when the fishermen took the money, went back to fishing anyway and with a last gasp kind of urgency.

The whole thing got back in the news big time when somebody burned 22 small fishing boats on the beach near San Felipe. They caught a little Mexican guy in a broke down pickup who had a lot of empty gas cans in his truck. In the lockup they couldn�t get much out of him even with the Mexican version of water boarding. He kept saying he didn�t hatch the plan, had no idea why he was there, knew nothing about the fishing, the fishermen, their boats.

He didn�t have any money on him, nobody in the area knew him and he was very vague about where he lived, what he did for a living; he was drug and alcohol free, his truck was registered in Sonoyta. They put him in jail in Mexicali and that was the end of that. There was a small article in La Jornada at the time reporting the inmates caused a near riot to get him away from them because they claimed he was endemoniado, possessed.

There were the usual rumblings but no protests when five new longliner permits were granted and Korean factory ships began a vigorous interception of commercial and other food fish that travel up, down and around the mid gulf as bait migrates with the currents. Then all the papers lit up when one of the big ships was disabled and had to be towed to Guaymas. A CONAPESCA team found tons of illegal catch aboard and among those detained was Angel Cota Garcia who the crew blamed for the serious problem with the running gear. He was drug free but seemed to be in some kind of trance and was totally uncommunicative.

Their investigation indicated he could not have been involved with the San Felipe fires because he was in jail at the time in Mexicali. Quite by accident they found he was there when the San Felipe arsonist was arrested and incarcerated.

Now the Mexican patented mystery rumors began to fly but I didn�t learn of it until much later --- with my kids and grandkids scattered all over Colorado and Idaho, my wife Helen�s health problems and ongoing projects around this old place, I was too busy to keep up with much Mexican or U.S. news. Somewhere along the line, as each crime occurred against those who farm the sea, a mystery character evolved --- sinister like the Chupacabra yet heaven sent like a vengeful rectifier.

The rumor, the national superhero of the day became Espiritu del Mar, the Sea Ghost, who randomly entered the minds and bodies of innocent Mexicans to use them as tools to save, restore and return the treasures of the sea which Mexico had so wantonly sold or wasted.

Some seiners moved from mid waters south to avoid any more trouble but when they began to appear in small armadas around Mulege, Loreto, La Paz, locals took to the streets. What a wonderful circus for the press! Kids and adults in ghostly bedsheets chanted and moaned, brandished paper knives and bloody hammers; they moved with a clumsy kind of derangement and posed with abandon for the hungry cameras.

The papers, the TV, everywhere across Mexico and Latin America were alive with news and accounts and videos of the small but colorful mobs of faceless people in protest of things they hardly knew about but sorely wanted to demonstrate against.

The Ghost was pleased. Just below Ensenada someone cut through several tuna pens, releasing uncountable farmed tuna and escaped without notice. Three restaurants in La Paz that made a major market in marlin and dorado were torched --- some say police were not all that interested in the investigations or the hunt for those responsible.

Police in Nayarit found two men dead on the beach with several big bags of turtle eggs. They were not beheaded, they were dismembered, their hands were in the bag with the eggs.

The news, the movement, resonated far from Mexico and its waters. Through Central and South America where natural resources and uncountable treasures are being squandered and sold at unsustainable rates The Spirit moved the people to be involved in guerrilla kinds of actions in the jungles and in the halls of congress.

The irony escaped no one; that The Spirit was invisible, amorphous, like the ever changing cabals arranging permits to change giant hardwoods to paper and plankton to cat food.

I don�t know where this particular spirit will die but we live in a Pushme-Pullyou world where things don�t really flow but go forward or backward in fits and starts. Very hard to keep track. I would like to think that The Spirit will stay alive and do more good than harm. This part of the planet is in a war of attrition and if this is a skirmish, I only hope there are more of them. It would be great to think my sons could watch the grandkids catch a tuna or take a run up the Orinoco to see a parrot.

I had better stop thinking those kinds of thoughts --- might be cause for The Spirit to pay me a visit and cast a spell I can�t ward off with a couple of my famous Amnesiaritas.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=81887#pid1020...



[Edited on 2-7-2019 by joerover]

[Edited on 2-7-2019 by joerover]

David K - 2-7-2019 at 01:09 AM

No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two wrongs don't make it right, does it? Or, are you saying that water cannons were okay then and are okay now?

I would love to be a Sea Shephard, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the money flow to make it all possible!

How come their TV show is no longer on the air? :?:

John Harper - 2-7-2019 at 07:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

I would love to be a Sea Shepherd, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the money flow to make it all possible!


As I recall, most the missions were crumbling and being lost to time until concerned Californians rallied to save them. Was that a "frivolous" effort like saving the whales, totuava, or vaquitas?

"The popularity of the missions also stemmed largely from Helen Hunt Jackson's 1884 novel Ramona and the subsequent efforts of Charles Fletcher Lummis, William Randolph Hearst, and other members of the "Landmarks Club of Southern California" to restore three of the southern missions in the early 20th century."(San Juan Capistrano, San Diego de Alcalá, and San Fernando; the Pala Asistencia was also restored by this effort).

Lummis wrote in 1895:

"In ten years from now—unless our intelligence shall awaken at once—there will remain of these noble piles nothing but a few indeterminable heaps of adobe. We shall deserve and shall have the contempt of all thoughtful people if we suffer our noble missions to fall."

In acknowledgement of the magnitude of the restoration efforts required and the urgent need to have acted quickly to prevent further or even total degradation, Lummis went on to state:

"It is no exaggeration to say that human power could not have restored these four missions had there been a five-year delay in the attempt."

Hmm, like the vaquita, totuava, and whales?

Source: Wikipedia

John



[Edited on 2-7-2019 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 2-7-2019 at 07:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two wrongs don't make it right, does it? Or, are you saying that water cannons were okay then and are okay now?

I would love to be a Sea Shephard, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the money flow to make it all possible!

How come their TV show is no longer on the air? :?:


I think sea shepard is morally right to use water cannons or 50 cal. ammo on the attacking poachers. I think the Mexican military should use air to surface missiles to take out the poachers. A couple missiles taking out pangas would do wonders to discouraging the poachers.
The Japanese whale slaughterers were (still are) morally wrong, and should be condemned for their whaling and their response to whaling protesters who had moral authority. If sea Shepard launches rockets at the whalers and sinks/kills them, I would be ok with that. No excuse justifies whaling in the 21st century.




Bubba - 2-7-2019 at 07:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13  
San Felipe fishermen made their own beds. they overfished for years, and now their stocks are below a sustainable level.

So their fix is to go after an endangered fish - because the bladder of that fish is suposed to make Asians D#cks hard. and along the way, besides wiping out the totuaba, they have pretty much extirpated the indiginous vaquita.

They are not fishing to sustain their families, they fish to try and get rich, but that never happens because they are pawns in the hands of the misddlemen, who manipulate them to go to war against those trying to protect the resource.


after the totuaba is gone - what next - how do the fishermen make their living then?

San Felipes economic future depended on wise management of their resources, they blew it, and now have to live in the nest they fouled.

Oh yeah, one more thing: Turns out that legit San Felipe fisherman are being paid 2K a month to not fish . I could live pretty well in San felipe on 2K per month, particulalry if I don't have to buy boat fuel, nets etc! doesn't sound like they should be starving!



[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]

[Edited on 2-4-2019 by caj13]


Winner!

chuckie - 2-7-2019 at 07:45 AM

News to me! Dint know the Japanese were whaling around San Felipe!

bajadogs - 2-7-2019 at 08:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  

I would love to be a Sea Shephard, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the money flow to make it all possible!

How come their TV show is no longer on the air? :?:


You spelled it wrong again señor but Sea Shepherd is always looking for volunteers (unpaid) and because you are not being political or sarcastic as you claim, put you heart where your mouth is. Protect Baja. I thought you loved Baja. Have you ever learned something new, and admitted you were wrong? Ever?

https://seashepherd.org/get-involved/


fishbuck - 2-8-2019 at 01:49 PM

Thanks for the link.

Save the Whales!

freediverbrian - 2-8-2019 at 05:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two wrongs don't make it right, does it? Or, are you saying that water cannons were okay then and are okay now?

I would love to be a Sea Shephard, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the money flow to make it all possible!

How come their TV show is no longer on the air? :?:











Don't discount the idea because you don't agree with the actions , THE idea is saving marine life from over fishing!! If you know of a better way then do it !! As far as the TV show that's business nothing to do with saveing marine life. Keep the eye on the goal!

Getting It RIGHT

MrBillM - 2-8-2019 at 06:35 PM

Shepherd, that is.

For the spelling-challenged, think Sheep HERD.

freediverbrian - 2-8-2019 at 06:48 PM

You can't be correcting the spillin police. Can you ?

WE ARE SEA SHEPHERD

joerover - 2-8-2019 at 07:17 PM

WE ARE SEA SHEPHERD
Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (SSCS) is an international non-profit, marine wildlife conservation organization…

https://seashepherd.org/


somebody put davidk down for a pile of loot
https://seashepherd.org/portfolio/donate/

[Edited on 2-9-2019 by joerover]

Royosbaja - 2-9-2019 at 12:02 PM

Every time I scroll down the "todays posts," my eye sees this topic as "Angry PANDAS attack Sea Shepard" makes me smile. HAHAHAHAHA
,

Gscott - 2-9-2019 at 12:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Jorge  
Sea Shepard appears to be a de facto mercenary.

Lost is the simple fact that fresh water flows from Mexico's northern neighbor via the Colorado River are practically nil. This has had a profound effect on the ecology of the northern Sea of Cortez. Some would argue or hypothesize that this lack of fresh water is the real problem in the northern Sea of Cortez, not poaching.


It's not lost on me. I was going to say the same thing. California stealing the water from the Colorado is the cause of the destruction of the Sea of Cortez. And no one is doing a damn thing about it.

Mercenary ?

MrBillM - 2-9-2019 at 05:10 PM

In common parlance, a Mercenary is generally one who acts for personal gain without political or ethical motives.

While I don't follow their activities other than when they appear in the news, it seems that they have well-defined and consistent set of goals regardless of where they choose to participate.

caj13 - 2-10-2019 at 11:05 AM

Those who "hypothesize" the real issue is fresh water flow: I have a question for you.
How does the lack of fresh water flow string dozens of miles of gill nets nightly?

seems like the Vaquita and totuaba, in spite of the environmental challenges have lived and thrived in the Sea of cortez , until all of a sudden Asian cultures decided they needed a new potion to make their flacid wrinkled old man D*cks hard.

I do have serious concerns about the USA ignoring the water rights treaties etc, and recognize the environmental issues that is causing, but right now - the immediate cause of extinction is clear for the vaquita and the Totuaba, and restoring the flow of the water will have no effect on removing the nets.

[Edited on 2-10-2019 by caj13]

Hypothesizing

MrBillM - 2-10-2019 at 11:45 AM

:?:

Whenever a really absurd argument is ventured, there is the (charitable) tendency to view it as farce.

Only to often find that the provider is serious. Sort of like those who "think" that Aliens (from outer space) are walking among us. And, running the government.

In this (the Fresh Water theory of fishery extinction) ................... ???????

It's a JOKE, right ?

daveB - 2-10-2019 at 11:50 AM

So this is the FB (Facebook?) Baja site, or was TT referring to another sitre...Facebook was never even thought about, and came several years after, Baja Nomad.

del mar - 2-10-2019 at 12:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Royosbaja  
Every time I scroll down the "todays posts," my eye sees this topic as "Angry PANDAS attack Sea Shepard" makes me smile. HAHAHAHAHA
,


cute little guys flinging bamboo shoots at the sea shepherd.....I like it!:yes:

surfhat - 2-10-2019 at 12:47 PM

The all too few Baja fishing coops like Sharis' husband in Bahia Asuncion need to realize that their future depends upon waking the f up and seeing what will be ultimately be in their own self interests if they want to keep fishing as a living.

This should be simple. I wonder if a roving ambassador could be effective in teaching some of these reluctant coops to see what will ultimately be in their own best interest to continue of fishing.

Peace, love, and fish tacos.




AKgringo - 2-10-2019 at 01:09 PM

Sea of Cortez fishermen also have to contend with boats coming over from ports on the mainland.

Maintaining a resource for sustained yield, without enforcement, financially favors those who cheat!

surfhat - 2-10-2019 at 01:27 PM

Peer pressure.

weebray - 2-11-2019 at 09:31 AM

AK points out another aprieto. Fishermen at Isla Partida one told me that when they asked visiting mainland pangeros to stop netting inshore waters they were told: "get out of here or we will kill you."

Lee - 2-11-2019 at 11:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
AK points out another aprieto. Fishermen at Isla Partida one told me that when they asked visiting mainland pangeros to stop netting inshore waters they were told: "get out of here or we will kill you."


Yup. Sad but true words you don't want to hear.

bajadogs - 2-11-2019 at 04:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two wrongs don't make it right, does it?


There is your fallacy Señior David. You call them two wrongs. Is Sea Shepherd wrong because they defended themselves while they defended the Sea of Cortez? What is wrong with international law. What is your t-shirt size? They want to know. Don't be wrong. You are with us or you are with the poachers. Read a book man.

Glidergeek - 2-12-2019 at 08:05 AM

how do you make a panga angry enough to attack a boat bigger than a panga?:?:

Sea Spirits and Surly Scows

MrBillM - 2-12-2019 at 10:11 AM

Panga Possession by Fishery Fairies ?

Lee - 2-12-2019 at 11:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajadogs  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two wrongs don't make it right, does it?


Is Sea Shepherd wrong because they defended themselves while they defended the Sea of Cortez?

You are with us or you are with the poachers. Read a book man.


David has written that Sea Shepherd's use of water cannons on poachers was wrong. Amazing.

Just getting too politically correct on this forum.




chuckie - 2-12-2019 at 11:58 AM

Aint that the truth....

JoeJustJoe - 2-12-2019 at 12:22 PM

Yeah, it's pretty sad when someone stops a few inches short of throwing in with the poachers, instead of the Sea Shepherd crew, who are the good guys, and a marine conservation organization, who is out to protect wildlife in the oceans, especially the large mammals.

Of course some from the extreme right, see Sea Shepherd, as no better than eco-terrorists, but personally I love groups like the Sea Shepherd, the Counter-protesters, and I even like, more militant, anti-fascist, groups like Antifa, who is not afraid of using a little force like they did in Charlottesville.





David K - 2-12-2019 at 12:49 PM

Using a water cannon on people you disagree with instead of talking, is the event, not who is right or wrong.

Poaching is illegal and if law enforcement uses water instead of deadly force, then that is enforcing the law. I think I saw that Sea Shepherds had been invited to help Mexican law enforcement? Were they given authority as to what means they could use against poachers?

Was the water cannon attack stopping poaching itself or just being used to hurt or mess with the fishermen zipping around the Rainbow Warrior or whatever boat the Sea Shepherds were on? Were the fishermen only protesting the Sea Shepherds and not actually poaching? Was that okay to water-cannon peaceful protesting?

I post things here mostly to get some of you to think with logic instead of just react with emotion. This is a Baja discussion board. I do hope totuava (however you want to spell it) can return in numbers so fishermen can again catch them legally.. the same with turtles... a world with so many varieties of great seafood that there is no danger of extinction from over-fishing.

willardguy - 2-12-2019 at 01:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  


I post things here mostly to get some of you to think with logic instead of just react with emotion. This is a Baja discussion board. I do hope totuava (however you want to spell it) can return in numbers so fishermen can again catch them legally.. the same with turtles... a world with so many varieties of great seafood that there is no danger of extinction from over-fishing.


gosh what a wonderful service you provide here david! :lol:

David K - 2-12-2019 at 01:43 PM

Thank you... I do try! :biggrin: I also get blamed for a bunch of things than most, so it is a labor of love! LOL, It's all entertainment along with some education!

bajabuddha - 2-12-2019 at 01:45 PM

Nomads have its own Joe The Plumber.

fishbuck - 2-12-2019 at 03:31 PM

Isn't DK more like Huel Houser. A big friendly do boy, full of useless but interesting info. He travels around and allows us to live Baja vicariuosly.
And some of us even venture forth because of him.

Seriously. No one has been hurt yet.
Protesting is cool. But no when you do it with rocks and flaming bottles filled with gas.
Someone stated there is/was a Mexican Navy member onboard Sea Shepard. I'm sure he was armed.
So very good restraint shown by Sea Shepard/Mexican Navy.

Thank you for all the lively comment on this issue.


David K - 2-12-2019 at 03:56 PM

My wife says I am a plethora of useless information... when I go on about history and such. LOL

The emails and u2u messages of appreciation keep me providing the Baja that I continue to live with, I grew up with, and of the time before I existed. Stuff that should be known by anyone who loves the place. To know Baja is to love Baja!

bajadogs - 2-12-2019 at 07:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
My wife says I am a plethora of useless information...


That is not true. The uselessness is your political horse plop. Just stop. Please stop! Read a paper or a book. And if you must opine please GO OFF TOPIC! Have a nice day señor.

norte - 2-13-2019 at 08:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  




I post things here mostly to get some of you to think with logic instead of just react with emotion. This is a Baja discussion board. I do hope totuava (however you want to spell it) can return in numbers so fishermen can again catch them legally.. the same with turtles... a world with so many varieties of great seafood that there is no danger of extinction from over-fishing.


That you are the only one who uses logic and fact .....well.....defies Logic.

David K - 2-13-2019 at 08:41 AM

I am not the only one. But so many live off drama... too bad.

caj13 - 2-13-2019 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Using a water cannon on people you disagree with instead of talking, is the event, not who is right or wrong.

Was the water cannon attack stopping poaching itself or just being used to hurt or mess with the fishermen zipping around the Rainbow Warrior or whatever boat the Sea Shepherds were on? Were the fishermen only protesting the Sea Shepherds and not actually poaching? Was that okay to water-cannon peaceful protesting?



oh yeah, and "there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville" - right David!

Trying to wordsmith your way to finding cover for criminals - all that does David, is tell me you KNOW the truth!

SO now its all about you finding a way to do enough mental gymnastics so you don't have to confront yourself with the truth, which is in this case obviously in direct conflict with your personal belief and agenda!

Worth Remembering

MrBillM - 2-13-2019 at 09:38 AM

"The CREAM rises to the TOP"

But ..................

"Shit FLOATS, too"


Then, there's "Those who LEAD bring an Ass along."