BajaNomad - LAUNCH RAMPS CLOSED TO BLACK PEOPLE

As you can all guess, this headline is a parody of Marla's thread that Loreto local authorities are racists somehow discriminating against Gringos.

According to the information presented in that thread to date (I welcome correction), launching of boats on the Loreto public ramp is currently only permitted for pangueros officially licensed for commercial service, and other use is (provisionally?) suspended, i.e. non-commercial recreational boating is currently not permitted, for Gringos, Chinese, Mexicans, Apaches or Martians, whatever their skin color or ethnic affiliation.

The reasoning behind this may be gross corruption, local nepotism or whatever, or maybe even misguided COVID prevention, but from the information presented, it does not appear to be due to racism.

Marla, with all due respect, I don't question that you likely have a valid grievance here, but if it's indeed true that it is not racist in nature, I think you're doing a major disservice to your personal credibility, and everyone's cause, by alleging that it's somehow exclusively singling out Gringos.

NONE of Marlas comments mentions racist, black, brown or purple do they?....
NO ONE said a thing about racist.

She said GRINGOS CAN'T LAUNCH.

That's it.

You even made comments to her about it?

Are you taking lessons from the flame thrower Jihad Jay Salman?

What drives you to do this?...

GRINGOS CAN'T LAUNCH

I mean how PLAIN do you need this?
Your not here.....this does not affect you one iota.
Yet here you are, insinuating that Marla HAS to be some racist gringa.

"launch ramps closed to black people"

So sad

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by DaliDali]

John Harper - 8-17-2020 at 02:30 PM

It looks like the "Loreto" rules seem to read only that boats "WITHOUT PERMITS" are not allowed to launch. It has NOTHING to do with GRINGOS. Or any other people.

Has anyone inquired about the "permit" process? With new rules they may realize they need to issue temporary/annual permits? Perhaps a revenue source for a COVID impacted community, and not a conspiracy to help out local captains? If you, as a foreigner, use the launch ramp for free, who's paying your share to maintain the infrastructure?

You can't just take your boat out in the US without some safety requirements, what's the problem with Mexico having rules? You leave your life jackets and fire extinguisher at home when you go to Baja?

Some people want decentralized (republican) government control. Well, you got an example of it in Loreto. Some people want more universal (federal) control. Hmm. What to choose? Some of each? How much of each? Sound familiar?

It goes back to Jefferson versus Hamilton, always does. Democracy is very messy and hard to maintain, always has been. But, is it worth it?

I'd say "YES." Others may disagree.

John

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by John Harper]

David K - 8-17-2020 at 03:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Some people want decentralized (republican) government control. Well, you got an example of it in Loreto. Some people want more universal (federal) control. Hmm. What to choose? Some of each? How much of each? Sound familiar?

It goes back to Jefferson versus Hamilton, always does. Democracy is very messy and hard to maintain, always has been. But, is it worth it?

I'd say "YES." Others may disagree.

John

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by John Harper]

No need to spin this.
Making up new, instant laws for a populist new idea is an example of democracy (mob rule) and not a republican form of government which is rule of laws that are carefully added.

Republicans believe in the rule of law, the federal constitution, and local control for local issues. Nobody 3,000 miles away should dictate what kind of traffic laws are used in my county, or when I can buy a beer, for example.

We have recently seen what kind of law they have in Democrat controlled cities!

DaliDali - 8-17-2020 at 03:22 PM

Or you could just let the local foreign nationals, deal with and live with the local governing body regulations as necessary.

We, as the good foreign nationals living here, (for the most part) are not allowed to be active in any local/regional or National political decisions or regulations.

It's really offensive to see nonresidents opine on how it ought to be, as if they have one iota of local knowledge, know nothing of the local administration, their background and their private business interests.
Especially non residents like the goat, who has no boat, no fishing rod, no fishing license and no interest in fishing whatsoever, yet mouths off on how we residents should do it...TEN TIMES in the original post from Marla.

And missed again is the entire background on why the ramp restrictions are in place.
To prevent the spread of the virus.
To restrict the number of boats going out who carry passengers.
Fewer boats, less people, less chance to contract the plague....or so it is supposed to be.

Which, on the open Sea during fishing or sea life viewing is just NONSENSE.

The nearest island is 8 miles away from the masses of people who may carry the virus on shore.......miles and miles away from another fishing boat, usually with a couple of buddies who you know........no virus.
The breeze wafting, the spray spraying

Bring your open ocean boat down here next week ok John, and see if you can get it launched with a couple of your buddies ok?
If you can't launch, walk to the Port Captain's office and tell him you want a permit.
Take your boat TIP, MX fishing license and valid FFM document.

If it all falls through and you can't launch, look me up and I will steer you to a permitted MX skipper. Bring $250 USD with you.
But you CAN'T TAKE your own boat John. Bummer you drove 700 miles to go fishing and you can't even get the boat wet/

No one will really ever know if any "anti gringo" shenanigans went on and continues to go on.
It remains a FACT that the husband of the local mayor operates a fleet of fishing pangas.
He could easily have direct control over how the local sportfishing pesos are allocated via foreign national fishermen.
What better way to shovel the locals all of the charter money than to shut down the ramp to foreign nationals via beating back the virus.
Smells like a rat may apply here.
I do not have proof of this.

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by DaliDali]

DaliDali - 8-17-2020 at 03:27 PM

Yet here you are, insinuating that Marla HAS to be some racist gringa.

Woah, what?

Maybe my writing isn't clear, but I certainly was not intending to imply that Marla is discriminating in any way.

Merely that her implication that Gringos are being exclusively singled out-- which from what has been presented doesn't actually seem to be the case-- could be taken wrong.

You took the time to label this thread "the ramp is closed to black people?
What the hell is that all about?.....

Do you always fan the flames like that?
I would expect this from Jihad Jay Salman all day every day, but not our bud Lencho?..
What happened to you?

DaliDali - 8-17-2020 at 03:48 PM

You took the time to label this thread "the ramp is closed to black people?
What the hell is that all about?.....

Uhh... how is that different from "The ramp is closed to Gringos"?

(In this case it appears that both statements are equally true, BTW.)

Gringos/blacks
Yes blacks can be gringos.

You PURPOSELY lit the fire of racism Lencho.
There was ZERO need to label the thread like you did.

In a completely separate thread no less

Why didn't you just use "gringos"?
The thread was all about gringos.....

NO ONE mentioned any other race or groups or religious beliefs.
NO ONE even whispered race.......until YOU come along and plant that seed
YOU lit that match Lencho.

YOU inferred Marla was a racist gringa...why else would you even bring that up?......can't she give her opinion of what happened without someone like you snorting racist inferences?

If you don't want to own that.....so be it.

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by DaliDali]

John Harper - 8-17-2020 at 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

No need to spin this.

The concepts that our country were founded on are just "spin" for you? Okay. If it works for you.

Come on, Dave, realize what America is really about. You know better. Can't you just accept other's ideas? That we all have ideas to make the country advance and survive, not just yours?

John

DaliDali - 8-17-2020 at 04:28 PM

You PURPOSELY lit the fire of racism Lencho.

So, you don't consider "Gringo" racist?

Not in the least......
But you can...have at it

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by DaliDali]

gnukid - 8-17-2020 at 04:38 PM

It is not impossible but it is quite rare for Gringos to have commercial fishing or tourism captain guide permits but it is a requirement that defies logic in relation to health restrictions.

This unique new restriction affecting foreign boat owners who clearly are not easily able to meet the local permitting process for commercial and tourism captain permits is driven by politics of the presidente de Loreto, Mayor Arely Arce Peralta and her husband Arturo Susarrey Amador from Arturo's SportFishing.

Contact Arturo or Arely directly to discuss the issue directly.

https://www.facebook.com/arturo.susarreyamador
https://arturosport.com/in/e/
Arturo´s Sportfishing Fleet
Email: arturossport@prodigy.net.mx
Reservaciones / Oficina: 613 110 8522

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by gnukid]

Is it now the "G word"

AKgringo - 8-17-2020 at 04:42 PM

I obviously never considered Gringo a pejorative term, or I would not have used it when I needed to come up with a user name!

It he been a term I have been familiar with since my first visit to Mexico at ten year old. I have never had the term thrown at me as an insult (that I was aware of) but have experienced the handle in friendly exchanges.

Maybe I would have had a different experience if I lived near, or spent much time close to the border, but where I have traveled on Baja or the mainland I am comfortable being a Gringo!

John Harper - 8-17-2020 at 04:43 PM

This unique new restriction affecting foreign boat owners who clearly are not easily able to meet the local permitting process for commercial and tourism captain permits is driven by by the presidente de Loreto,
Mayor Arely Arce Peralta and her husband Susarrey Arturo Amador from Arturo's SportFishing.

And you are "shocked" that "gambling" took place at Rick's in Casablanca?

How do you know a new "permit" is not easily obtained?

You are. as always, a true "genius of the obvious." You cry about the "freedom" to be socially irresponsible, what's your problem with the freedom of "corruption?"

John

[Edited on 8-17-2020 by John Harper]

Lee - 8-17-2020 at 04:53 PM

I think the word gringo refers to skin color. But it can be used interchangeably referring to race, or place of birth and citizenship.

I wouldn't call a MX who is a US citizen a gringo. And wouldn't call Ken one.

Depending on how it's used, it can be considered derogatory.

I don't consider the word racist but understand some white people are sensitive.

Here's a gem. I think mordida is a good thing.

Harald: ''stick to maps, David!
You are becoming an embarrassment to BajaNomads''

If I may, David isn't the embarrassment. It's his delusional politics. Still, he is our David.

John Harper - 8-17-2020 at 04:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

If I may, David isn't the embarrassment. It's his delusional politics. Still, he is our David.

We will save the lad, and pull the scales from his eyes. He will see, I know it.

I always appreciate Dave's opinions, but not always agree. That's okay for me. I see the contributions he's made compared to the rest of us. He's got my respect.

John

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by John Harper]

gnukid - 8-17-2020 at 05:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Please don't be offended ,ol timer, as a member of the community I support permitting process to larger cooperatives, meaning I drive with the papers to facilitate commercial fishermen permits per person, though I have no power, I have a car. I I see how it works in some cases, and how things change over time. I have some activity permissions of my own and saw how we negotiated access recently. I am not an expert of Lorerto, I don't know Arturo well, though I know Arely, there is a history. Each regional area is different now, COVID presents a hurdle, office delays, politics, AMLO funding, lots of issues, the offices weren't open to process permits until a few months bask and even then it was hard and uncertain, so most were delayed and out of date. In general you need certain licenses captain or guide, or equivalent from your region depending on skill license and possibly with an apostile though I have not seen US state dept apositled foreign license documents approved personally for commercial fishing permits, it is possible and we can try it.

gnukid - 8-17-2020 at 05:38 PM

Here is a link to Nezahualpilli Tovar Lee opening a dialogue in La Paz to return permission to tourism guides to depart and return. The negotiation took place over about an hour and was resolved. There are other similar cases to learn from. This has been addressed at each delegation, apparently except Loreto. There needs to be an Ombudsman to begin the public dialogue.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=297855191272696&extid=...

Next examples of proper activities in process were shared https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEfhCmGf6Go

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by gnukid]

John Harper - 8-17-2020 at 06:00 PM

Please don't be offended ,ol timer

You are so funny! I'll buy you a beer for that comment.

The rest of your drivel is, as always, just nonsense. My God, what a complete boor you truly are. Your parents must be so proud. What did they do to produce a tool like you?

John

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by John Harper]

mtgoat666 - 8-17-2020 at 09:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Quote: Originally posted by David K

We have recently seen what kind of law they have in Democrat controlled cities!

If apologies are in order, maybe David will apologize for his political comments.

Lay blame on democrat cities? This is fairly typical political BS coming from David.

Rule of law stopped when Prez Bone Spurs turned the republican party into the tRump Party. Spineless, dishonorable, lacking in integrity, honesty and truthfulness.

How great is it going to get?

There is a reason that cities elect Democrats. Because the GOP is the party of hillbillies, rural rednecks, and repressed cleaver-family suburbanites.

Have you noticed that trump lives in a diverse liberal city, nyc? He likes liberal city life, chasing pussy in nightclubs, hanging out with celebrities, partying with rich city dwellers, etc. but then he trashes the citizens and govt of cities. What an a$$hat.

Why does trump live in a diverse city, then tell us all how he hates non-whites? What is wrong with trump?

Pulqueria

BajaBlanca - 8-18-2020 at 04:04 AM

QUOTE "Speaking of which, how many of you have been in a pulquería? Used to be one in about every town in Mexico, not too common these days, though.

Anyone been in one in Baja? QUOTE

We went to one on the mainland, near Puebla. Pure, nothing added to it, the drink is awful. Add some fruit juice and whoaaaa Good and what a punch!

****************************************************

I have to say that being Brazilian/American, of course we use the word Gringo to refer to anyone who was not born in Brazil but never with the intention of being offensive unless we wanted to BE OFFENSIVE.

It is all about intent and intonation.

*****************************************************

When I mentioned this thread about Loreto captains and not allowing foreigners to launch their to my local American friends, and we all have friends who went out on their own boat as recently as this past Sunday, they all looked at me and said THIS IS LA BOCANA!

Life is business as usual here with the change that not only do we have American tourists but we also have many more Mexican tourists than we normally do.

paranewbi - 8-18-2020 at 04:32 AM

As you can all guess, this headline is a parody of Marla's thread that Loreto local authorities are racists somehow discriminating against Gringos.

According to the information presented in that thread to date (I welcome correction), launching of boats on the Loreto public ramp is currently only permitted for pangueros officially licensed for commercial service, and other use is (provisionally?) suspended, i.e. non-commercial recreational boating is currently not permitted, for Gringos, Chinese, Mexicans, Apaches or Martians, whatever their skin color or ethnic affiliation.

The reasoning behind this may be gross corruption, local nepotism or whatever, or maybe even misguided COVID prevention, but from the information presented, it does not appear to be due to racism.

Marla, with all due respect, I don't question that you likely have a valid grievance here, but if it's indeed true that it (edit: by "it" I mean the prohibition-- sorry for the misunderstanding) is not racist in nature, I think you're doing a major disservice to your personal credibility, and everyone's cause, by alleging that it's somehow exclusively singling out Gringos.

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by lencho]

Sticks and Stone can break my bones
But words will never hurt me.
Kindergarten 101

I guess I don't want to be 'woke'

gnukid - 8-18-2020 at 05:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Please don't be offended ,ol timer

Yes of course, the point of this thread is about the process each municipality has gone through to first justify closing access to launch ramps and launching and then reopen, permitting process for licensed captains, guides, and private vessels, safety, security, negotiations, etc. The details and requirements are boring drivel to you and most here. As we say here, everything has a solution, you have to start somewhere.

pacificobob - 8-18-2020 at 06:28 AM

Or if you'd spent much time in low-life cantinas. :saint:

Speaking of which, how many of you have been in a pulquería? Used to be one in about every town in Mexico, not too common these days, though.

Anyone been in one in Baja? :?:

i have..... on the mainland 40+ years ago. the real ones had a urinal along the full length of the bar [ clogged drain with added sawdust to absorb the moisture]
over loud music delivered by a blown speaker, and one or two aging prostitutes
i have never seen one in baja. the term "cantina" is used to describe regular gringo bars....lets the folks from upper California imagine they are having an exotic adventure.

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by pacificobob]

SFandH - 8-18-2020 at 06:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

Speaking of which, how many of you have been in a pulquería? Used to be one in about every town in Mexico, not too common these days, though.

Anyone been in one in Baja? :?:

Amazing! I've been to that joint too, about 30 years ago. In Chihuahua, a short walk from the Rio Grande. I was camping in Big Bend National Park, walked to the river and paid a Mex ferryman to take me across in a beat up skiff. Walked to the close-by town and made a thorough study of pulque. I must have done the reverse trip, but I don't remember it. :cool:

[Edited on 8-18-2020 by SFandH]

vandy - 8-19-2020 at 07:53 AM

I remember in the mid-80s on the mainland, being delighted to see a sign reading "Peluqueria".
I entered, hoping for a nice mug of slimy fermented agave pina juice.

What I got was one of my first Spanish lessons.

Learning the Language

MrBillM - 8-19-2020 at 10:17 AM

As a teen, I learned that the first phrase needed when visiting a new town was ............... "Donde esta las Putas ?"

After that "Cuantos Cuesta ?"

Along with "Cerveza (y mas Cerveza), por favor ", of course.

travisch - 8-19-2020 at 11:22 AM

Yet here you are, insinuating that Marla HAS to be some racist gringa.

Just joined but what a bunch of cry babies. Sure seems to be a handful of people (mtngoat666, DaliDali ect) who just like to attack, b-tch or spread their views as the gospel and belittle anyone without the same views. Who would like to see a new forum specific to Baja where this type of behavior isn't tolerated?

Skipjack Joe - 8-19-2020 at 05:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by travisch