BajaNomad

I am happy

4x4abc - 11-15-2021 at 02:18 AM

I was just about to close down for the night - then this line caught my eye
a new trail
no idea yet what it is good for
but it looks well used

new.jpg - 290kB

Glidergeek - 11-15-2021 at 07:14 AM

Game trail?

4x4abc - 11-15-2021 at 08:25 AM

looks like it is not connected to anything anywhere
it can be traced for a while on top of a mesa
does not pick up after that
too bad

AKgringo - 11-15-2021 at 09:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Glidergeek  
Game trail?


Maybe "game trails" maintained by livestock? I see a whole lot more cattle and goats than deer or wild burros!

4x4abc - 11-15-2021 at 11:40 AM

cattle is definitely a driving force

I love the areas of Baja where you don't have goat or cow.
Plants look different
ground looks different
NoWimp trail is ne of those areas
not enough water to ranch

wilderone - 11-16-2021 at 08:39 AM

Where is it? Do you compare with the Baja Topo Atlas? The very far left side of the photo shows some corral looking or cleared areas surrounded by something. Might be a ranch with roads going to it.

4x4abc - 11-16-2021 at 08:50 AM

no Corral or Rancho nearby

but I have been studying it over the weekend and it looks like it is part of a trail network tying into Cuesta Paraiso
there is even a benchmark close by, indicating strong human interest

Topo Atlas and INEGI map sheets do not offer any help (except the benchmark notice)

4x4abc - 11-16-2021 at 09:01 AM

the newly found Cuesta here:

cuesta.jpg - 218kB

[Edited on 11-16-2021 by 4x4abc]

geoffff - 11-16-2021 at 11:48 AM

It looks like it connects a well-worn area with vegetation down by the riverbed to a well-worn area at the top of the mesa, but I don't see any trails entering the area from elsewhere. There are also many other fainter switchback trails elsewhere on the mesa slope.

Here is a big image taken from Bing maps satellite. Click the following web-sized image to see big image:



4x4abc - 11-16-2021 at 12:46 PM

this are the trails I have recorded in the area:

trails.jpg - 300kB

there is a lot of activity there
a Boleo cattle station is not far from there

geoffff - 11-17-2021 at 02:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
What does the "BN" abbreviation stand for (in Spanish, I assume)?


I believe they are survey markers. The INEGI site mentions "estación geodésica: Vertical(BN) (EGV)" -- where I guess "N" stands for Norte (as in direction, not Baja California "norte" - as they still say BN in BC Sur). Not sure abut the "B" part.

[Edited on 11-17-2021 by geoffff]

geoffff - 11-17-2021 at 02:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
this are the trails I have recorded in the area [...] there is a lot of activity there a Boleo cattle station is not far from there


Wow, you are really teasing out some faint details there! I can barely make these out on my image.

David K - 11-17-2021 at 03:33 PM

I guessed BN was a benchmark...?

4x4abc - 11-17-2021 at 04:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff  
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
What does the "BN" abbreviation stand for (in Spanish, I assume)?


I believe they are survey markers. The INEGI site mentions "estación geodésica: Vertical(BN) (EGV)" -- where I guess "N" stands for Norte (as in direction, not Baja California "norte" - as they still say BN in BC Sur). Not sure abut the "B" part.



They are BN in all of Mexico
equivalent to the BM (bench mark) in the US

here is a list of all BN in Mexico
with detail sketches of the location:
https://www.inegi.org.mx/app/geo2/rgnp/

4x4abc - 11-17-2021 at 04:37 PM

here is the detail for the one in my image
BN582 (200616 on the list)

Screen Shot 2021-11-17 at 4.29.20 PM.png - 150kB

David K - 11-17-2021 at 04:41 PM

Cool... so I guessed right! Thanks Harald, interesting!

mtgoat666 - 11-17-2021 at 05:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by geoffff  
The INEGI site mentions "estación geodésica: Vertical(BN) (EGV)" -- where I guess "N" stands for Norte (as in direction, not Baja California "norte" - as they still say BN in BC Sur). Not sure abut the "B" part.
We can guess till the cows come home, but it's mostly noise. :lol:

After some inquiry, I've learned that "Banco de Nivel" is the Spanish term for a benchmark. Thus the abbreviation "BN".

Edit: BTW, while we're here, the (EGV) is Estación Geodésica Vertical. :saint:

[Edited on 11-18-2021 by lencho]


Is BN just for vertical benchmarks? I only see BN with EGV, not EGH.

4x4abc - 11-17-2021 at 05:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by geoffff  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
this are the trails I have recorded in the area [...] there is a lot of activity there a Boleo cattle station is not far from there


Wow, you are really teasing out some faint details there! I can barely make these out on my image.


I have learned a lot about animal movement (including us) over the last years dissecting sat images
super interesting stuff!

how does that relate to Camino Real?
well, when the human animal stops using a trail, nature smoothes things out
trail almost disappear
almost, because the other animals will still use trails and roads we once created
so I trace animal trails because they sometimes help me find lost sections of Camino Real

many times I have kept myself from getting lost when exploring by looking for cow traffic
they go exactly where an old road used to be
a little trail cleaning and you keep going

good example in this trip:
https://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Events/La-Fortuna/

cows.jpg - 325kB

David K - 11-17-2021 at 05:40 PM

Yes! I found the Camino Real where it climbs out of Arroyo Santa María, from the converging cattle prints!

In Nov. 2002:

Here it is!!! N29°41.733' W114°28.175' (NAD27)


4x4abc - 11-17-2021 at 06:38 PM

thank you for making my point

geoffff - 11-17-2021 at 08:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
We can guess till the cows come home, but it's mostly noise. :lol:

After some inquiry, I've learned that "Banco de Nivel" is the Spanish term for a benchmark. Thus the abbreviation "BN".

Edit: BTW, while we're here, the (EGV) is Estación Geodésica Vertical.


Thank you for the clarity! Sorry for my guessing :)


[Edited on 11-18-2021 by geoffff]

4x4abc - 11-17-2021 at 08:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Yes! I found the Camino Real where it climbs out of Arroyo Santa María, from the converging cattle prints!

In Nov. 2002:

Here it is!!! N29°41.733' W114°28.175' (NAD27)



do you have that image bigger?
want to use it for demonstration

pjpvi - 11-18-2021 at 11:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Yes! I found the Camino Real where it climbs out of Arroyo Santa María, from the converging cattle prints!

In Nov. 2002:

Here it is!!! N29°41.733' W114°28.175' (NAD27)



That's directly across the wash from where I camped when I hiked it earlier this year. It was a bit of a guessing game until the Camino Real started climbing into the mountains then the trail was obvious.

You are doing some very cool leg work on all of this!

David K - 11-18-2021 at 11:31 AM

Thanks, yes fun to hike where the padres and soldiers of Spain did!

Harald, if I find the original print, I will rescan at high resolution. Please give me a few days to find it, as we are having our family Thanksgiving this weekend to avoid crowds!

Lance S. - 1-21-2023 at 11:43 AM

Noticed that the Cuesta at Aguaje de San Juan is named in Itinereros y Dereteros. Page 429.
https://sachsen.digital/werkansicht/18685/433?tx_dlf_navigat...

Just in case you didn't have a name for that one yet.

David K - 1-21-2023 at 01:45 PM

:wow::wow::light:

4x4abc - 1-21-2023 at 04:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Noticed that the Cuesta at Aguaje de San Juan is named in Itinereros y Dereteros. Page 429.
https://sachsen.digital/werkansicht/18685/433?tx_dlf_navigat...

Just in case you didn't have a name for that one yet.


yup - I have that

thank you for posting sources!

San Cristobal.jpg - 275kB