BajaNomad - 2022 San Felipe 250 Race (Map) Discussion

2022 San Felipe 250 Race (Map) Discussion

David K - 3-11-2022 at 04:23 PM

The actual race day appears to be Saturday April 2.

The parallel course (blue line) for bikes and quads (I hear) to keep Trophy Trucks from catching up to them, and running them over!

basautter - 3-12-2022 at 05:15 AM

Thanks for posting. Yes, anything with 4 wheels is a bit scary if you are on a bike. Especially trophy trucks!

mtgoat666 - 3-12-2022 at 06:52 AM

Will the promoter leave the desert cleaner than it was before?

Unfortunately, no.

The promoter will attract many people to the remote desert, knowing full well (from past experience) that the fans and racers will leave trash/litter all over. But the promoter will not take any responsibility and clean up the mess. Desert dirtier, trash blowing in the wind. Shame!

Bajaboy - 3-12-2022 at 07:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Will the promoter leave the desert cleaner than it was before?

Unfortunately, no.

The promoter will attract many people to the remote desert, knowing full well (from past experience) that the fans and racers will leave trash/litter all over. But the promoter will not take any responsibility and clean up the mess. Desert dirtier, trash blowing in the wind. Shame!

In all fairness, the promoter didn't throw the trash on the ground. Same thing happens every Fourth of July at the beaches in San Diego.

mtgoat666 - 3-12-2022 at 07:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

In all fairness, the promoter didn't throw the trash on the ground. Same thing happens every Fourth of July at the beaches in San Diego.

It sounds like you are the type of person that invites all your friends to the beach for a party you host, then you don’t clean up after your friends and your lame excuse is that it was your friend’s fault not your fault.
You throw the party, you clean up the mess.

Bajaboy - 3-12-2022 at 07:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

In all fairness, the promoter didn't throw the trash on the ground. Same thing happens every Fourth of July at the beaches in San Diego.

Pretty lame response... :lol:

bajatrailrider - 3-12-2022 at 10:40 AM

Maybe worry about the garbage in San diego before your concern . About a country you dont belong baja boy gets it

mtgoat666 - 3-12-2022 at 11:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

My personal observation has shown that people from the city (Ensenada, etc.) go out to a place on the course, with full bottles of beer, but somehow can't go back to the city with empty bottles? They are tossed all around the desert or high country. Dirty diapers also are left behind. Pretty disgusting and this poor behavior is not the fault of SCORE or any other promoter.
Now, this was several years ago as I haven't been to a Baja race since 2006. Maybe their behavior with trash has improved? I hope so!

Speaking of “personal observations”… My personal observation is that most event promoters usually have a clean up crew to clean up after events. SCORE seems to be the exception in not cleaning up after their events; They don’t clean up the trash left by THEIR spectators and they don’t fix the roads damaged by THEIR events.
The land owners should require SCORE to provide a substantial damage deposit, and only return the damage deposit after the trash is removed and roads are repaired. Deposit could be held by a responsible third party who could do cleanup and repairs if SCORE fails to do cleanup and repair.

mtgoat666 - 3-12-2022 at 01:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I understand why you compare this to an event held in one location, like a stadium or race track.
A point to point off-road race goes for hundreds of miles and usually does not repeat the same road over and over, such as in Indy race does. In other words, this is not held in one location, but along hundreds of miles in the mountains and desert.
People need to learn responsibility and have some pride in their own country. I know self-responsibility is a foreign concept to you. I will try and help!

[Edited on 3-12-2022 by David K]

Don’t be obtuse, DK. If the race promoter is capable of running a point to point race, then the promoter is capable of cleaning up the route of a point to point race, and capable of fixing damage caused by race.
It’s not rocket science or brain surgery. It is picking up trash and blading the road.
If promoter is incapable of cleaning up and repairing road, then the promoter is incompetent. If he won’t pick up trash and repair road simply because he does not want to, then he is just a jerk.
Sounds like a chitty business to run a race and leave damaged roads and trash scattered for hundreds of miles.

mtgoat666 - 3-12-2022 at 04:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Interesting that the people actually leaving the trash on the ground are (to you) blameless.

Sure, the litter bugs are responsible. But ultimately at the end of the day, the race promoter is the one that is expected to be responsible if his customers/spectators don’t do the right thing.

The promoters pick up their litter when they run races north of the border, so why don’t they do so in Mexico?

bajatrailrider - 3-12-2022 at 10:24 PM

Mexican throw trash everyplace race or not . The track is too big what Roger can do is fix the roads ranchers use small part of course.

John Harper - 3-13-2022 at 07:03 AM

I was tentatively planning to head out to Mike's on the 3rd, maybe better to hold off a day or two due to race traffic. Have not taken the new detour road around Ensenada to Hwy 3 yet.

John

John Harper - 3-13-2022 at 07:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

Mexican throw trash everyplace race or not . The track is too big what Roger can do is fix the roads ranchers use small part of course.

They could have post-race sanitation crews follow the race course and retrieve any conspicuous trash. The track is not too big to patrol responsibly. If 250 is too much to handle, it questions their ability to responsibly stage the 1000, doesn't it?.

With GPS and mapping apps, they could tag areas of the course that need repair for a road crew. That doesn't sound too egregious a burden. I would assume SCORE is aware of why racing in the USA has been virtually eliminated from public lands. It only takes a few to ruin things for the many. A proactive position by SCORE could pay big dividends in the future.

Racing on existing dirt roads is pretty benign, but the associated damage/litter may be it's Achille's Heel sooner or later.

John

[Edited on 3-13-2022 by John Harper]

Baja 250 track trash

akshadow - 3-13-2022 at 03:18 PM

How about every responsible person carry a trash bag and pick up some of the litter where they watch the race.
Personal examples go a long way in encouraging others to be responsible.
Just expecting the Race Promoter to actively pick up all the trash is just like expecting the government to take care of everything and then likely b-tch about the idea that taxes need to be paid.

Maybe you could figure out a way to have all spectators pay to watch, then there would be revenue to pay to collect trash

I do think the promoter should pay to repair the roads since it is not possible for individuals to provide repairs.

Ron

David K - 3-13-2022 at 03:31 PM

Score pays the landowners for road damage repairs.
The land owners (often ejidos) simply pocket the money or only fix small sections.
Someday this sport will die and it won't be Score's fault.
The first 1000 was 1967 and the people loved it. Off-road racing was born in Baja and maybe it will die there, too?
So many orphans and others have benefitted from the kindness of off road racers and sponsors.

BajaNomad - 3-14-2022 at 12:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Score pays the landowners for road damage repairs.

Wouldn't surprise me if part of the payments by SCORE are also for trash pickup (as part of the road maintenance, etc)... and perhaps unlike the "other" promoters, this may be required for the SCORE events and not the others, etc. None of this would surprise me, and if true - the lack of maintenance and cleanup would not surprise me either (as DK alluded to).

Is there an authoritative source for this info?

John Harper - 3-14-2022 at 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Is there an authoritative source for this info?

Hopefully. I just emailed someone listed as in Marketing at SCORE. I did not see a PR contact listed, maybe that's part of their messaging problem?

"Dear Mr. Ryan,

A debate among some associates has come up regarding road damage and littering during SCORE events, particularly the upcoming San Felipe 250. Can you explain what actions are taken by SCORE regarding the following issues:

Road damage due to race events. How does SCORE address the wear and tear of using public and private roads for races?

Littering by teams and spectators. How does SCORE address the issues of littering and potential hazards (wildfires, road impediments, etc.) during and after your races? Many have seen the after effects of races, with beer bottles, food packaging, diapers, etc. strewn in the desert from spectators.

I realize that this event does not charge for spectators to attend, yet SCORE must feel some responsibility for "collateral" damages near the race course itself. Our group has many opinions, but few facts. Some clarification by a SCORE representative would provide some real insight and help clear up a lot of misinformation. Every little bit helps today.

Most of us have travelled extensively in Baja, live full or part time there, or just have intense feelings for one of the last precious "wilderness" areas left on Earth. We have all seen the degradation of Baja over the years, inevitable, but still lamentable. I'm sure SCORE is well aware of how precious this peninsula is to many people. I'm sure you are a good steward of the land, but the word does not seem to have gotten out. I hope we can help promote your good works!

I look forward to your response to my inquiry.

Sincerely,

John E. Harper"

We'll see what they say.

John

[Edited on 3-15-2022 by John Harper]

freediverbrian - 3-14-2022 at 03:39 PM

In San Diego they are paying the homeless $2.00 a bag to clean up the camps. Maybe something like that could be done at the 250. Give bags to spectators and give them some money or gift cards when returned full of trash.

[Edited on 3-14-2022 by freediverbrian]

John Harper - 3-14-2022 at 03:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by akshadow

How about every responsible person carry a trash bag and pick up some of the litter where they watch the race. Personal examples go a long way in encouraging others to be responsible.

I sure wish that was true. I've been picking up trash and dog chit bags every day on my morning 5 mile walk for the last five years. I've had many people complement me on my good works. I've yet to see anyone else emulate my good works.

John

[Edited on 3-14-2022 by John Harper]

bajatrailrider - 3-14-2022 at 07:01 PM

Riding on my bike one road 30 miles to only one house for miles . Yes trash dump from the one house. Its every place here sad to say you wont get anywhere with score. 50 years or more not fixing roads no such thing as Roger PD . For road repair Mexico likes racing more then repair roads or trash. Sadly true but thats how it is. Us on dirt bikes and SXS you cant even tell we been there .

John Harper - 3-15-2022 at 05:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

Riding on my bike one road 30 miles to only one house for miles . Yes trash dump from the one house. Its every place here sad to say you wont get anywhere with score. 50 years or more not fixing roads no such thing as Roger PD . For road repair Mexico likes racing more then repair roads or trash. Sadly true but thats how it is. Us on dirt bikes and SXS you cant even tell we been there .

Yes, the lack of a good PR campaign is an example of a "self inflicted wound" by SCORE. Getting out ahead of potential problems is PR 101.

Taking care of orphans is good, taking care of the desert is good. They are not mutually exclusive activities, especially when a TT costs $500K. SCORE is not hurting for money.

It's closer to yacht racing today. You can't really play without substantial resources.

John

[Edited on 3-15-2022 by John Harper]

bajatrailrider - 3-15-2022 at 01:32 PM

Your correct John but wrong HAHA on TT way over million bucks. A few of us out on trail bikes or SXS. Have never had a problem dealing with ranchos . Yes when Score runs a race they ruin it for all. Its not my place to tell them what to do as Mex allows it. Right or wrong with our thoughts from USA. This is Mexico good or bad I get it when someone. Writes about all off road people are this or that we do know who it is. Nature Natzi is not will be told otherwise.

John Harper - 3-15-2022 at 01:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

Your correct John but wrong HAHA on TT way over million bucks.

Yes, I was being conservative with my estimate of a TT racer. Definitely a sport for the (very) wealthy. It must cost thousands just to race a motorcycle.

John

[Edited on 3-15-2022 by John Harper]

Barry A. - 3-15-2022 at 03:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Quote: Originally posted by akshadow

How about every responsible person carry a trash bag and pick up some of the litter where they watch the race. Personal examples go a long way in encouraging others to be responsible.

John--------It hopefully will do your heart good to find out that I have been picking up trash everywhere I go for over 75 years, including in Baja. People compliment me constantly to my face, but I have heard that they mostly think I am really odd. I don't really care much what they think, but I do know that it does MY HEART good to be doing my trash pickup, so I continue. LOL

Don Pisto - 3-15-2022 at 03:33 PM

give our cuates SOMEWHERE to put their garbage and they will happily oblige, they could take it home but then what? :?:

John Harper - 3-15-2022 at 04:02 PM

Perhaps SCORE could promote "pack it in, pack it out" or "Leave No Trace." Neither is a concept very hard to comprehend. If these spectators can bring it out, there really is no excuse for not bringing it back with them. I have no idea what kind of contact SCORE really has with the spectators, they may not really care for all I know. I'm sure some of the sponsors (beer, tires, etc.) may care. The sponsors may even do some positive messaging about litter, I have no idea, but there is a bit of corporate self interest in social responsibility.

John

PaulW - 3-15-2022 at 04:46 PM

Works for us hikers and campers. "Leave no trace". Racers don't leave anything either. They always retrieve the broken trucks and most of the lost parts.
Spectators sure don't care and discard what the do not want to take home. The Mexican way of life we all do not understand.

The volunteers that do cleanup is minimal and the trash is huge

bajatrailrider - 3-15-2022 at 07:02 PM

That is very true now we should get back to off road . As intended when David started this.

PaulW - 3-16-2022 at 07:12 PM

Azufre and Matomi not marked today

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2022 at 07:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Works for us hikers and campers. "Leave no trace". Racers don't leave anything either. They always retrieve the broken trucks and most of the lost parts.
Spectators sure don't care and discard what the do not want to take home. The Mexican way of life we all do not understand.

The volunteers that do cleanup is minimal and the trash is huge

Since volunteers do minimal cleanup, why doesn’t SCoRE just hire laborers to clean the course? Doesn’t score have any pride in their worK? Are they proud of the trash they leave scattered all over Baja? The whole course does not have to be cleaned, just the areas where spectators gather. Unskilled labor is cheap, the racers can afford to each pay an extra $100 or $200 fee to cleanup after their fans.
Dk and bajatrailslug can be the foremen :lol:

bajatrailrider - 3-16-2022 at 07:34 PM

More trash talk from trash man

AKgringo - 3-16-2022 at 07:58 PM

In 2014 tropical storm Odile wiped out the road over the pass that is near San Isidro and La Purisima. It took front loaders, and bulldozers to get it open up to anything other than pack animals.

It got done a whole lot sooner than other roads that got wiped out that year, because the Baja 1K was scheduled to use that route!

After the race, there was a large crew of people from the area out fixing the washboard and ruts made by the racers. There were whole families, with mostly hand tools, and they seemed to be enjoying the project.

Judging by the smiles, I am sure that someone was throwing some money their way, and the same goes for the speedy heavy equipment part of the repairs.

Was it SCORE?

John Harper - 3-17-2022 at 05:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Was it SCORE?

If it was, that's the kind of stuff they should be publicizing. OTOH, I have had no response to my email so far.

Race Question:

Will the TTs need fuel pits for a 250 race? How many pits for a 1000? Are the pit areas staggered along the course, centralized? And what about the other classes, how do they arrange fuel stops? Does DK just pick a spot on the course and wait for me with couple 5 gallon jerry cans?

John

Ateo - 3-17-2022 at 06:57 AM

Yes, DK CAN pick a spot on the course and fuel you up as you stop in for a sandwich and a coffee.

John Harper - 3-17-2022 at 08:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Yes, DK CAN pick a spot on the course and fuel you up as you stop in for a sandwich and a coffee.

As long as he has plenty of cold Pacificos too!

John

PaulW - 3-17-2022 at 08:21 AM

TTs usually pit every ~100 miles based of fuel need. Bikes/Quads much more often. Team pit locations are not advertised. Find them when you do a prerun. Organized pit services are advertised. BFG will probably have two major pit stops not announced yet.
For best viewing IMO find the BFG pit where action occurs throughout the race for TT and lesser vehicles.

Don Pisto - 3-17-2022 at 10:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

TTs usually pit every ~100 miles based of fuel need. Bikes/Quads much more often. Team pit locations are not advertised. Find them when you do a prerun. Organized pit services are advertised. BFG will probably have two major pit stops not announced yet.
For best viewing IMO find the BFG pit where action occurs throughout the race for TT and lesser vehicles.

hey Paul finally an in-n-out in baja! love it! :biggrin:

David K - 3-17-2022 at 11:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Yes, DK CAN pick a spot on the course and fuel you up as you stop in for a sandwich and a coffee.

As long as he has plenty of cold Pacificos too!

John

What am I supposed to be doing...??? LOL :lol:

Pacifico, sí, y nada más! :light:

PaulW - 3-18-2022 at 07:14 AM

hey Paul finally an in-n-out in baja! love it! :biggrin:

[/rquote]

Don, Here is the image of in-n-out for the rest to see

Across for EL Dorado ARCO

David K - 3-18-2022 at 07:33 AM

Too funny!! Can I see what a Double-Double looks like? Is Animal-style offered? LOL

StuckSucks - 3-18-2022 at 11:23 AM

Sorry to interrupt the squabbling, but here's the 2022 San Felipe 250 embedded in Google Maps

mtgoat666 - 3-18-2022 at 02:15 PM

While you guys look forward to watching the race, but not advocating for end of the trash and road destruction, here is a recent FB post from peeed off person in BCS…

You can thank SCORE type promoters for land closures! The root of problem is the race organizers, not the government. xxxxxxxxxxx

https://www.facebook.com/corridos.deestilo/posts/16471144789...

Quote:

¿Que a hecho la junta estatal de caminos por nosotros? Absolutamente NADA.🤬 Pasó una maquina raspando que por cierto en algunas partes quedó peor porque necesita que echen material nuevo para poder dejar en buenas condiciones el camino que despues de la cerrera de la baja mil quedo completamente destrozado. Encima de todo, este tipo de vehiculos siguen pasando deteriorando aun mas. Ponganse las pilas por favor, la tienda movil tiene ya 4 meses que no pasa a los ranchos por lo que se dificulta tener que comer para algunas familias. Hemos tomado la desicion de cerrar el paso por nuestra propiedad a toda carrera de ruta, asi como de aficionados que pasan recorriendo como se muestra en el video. Ya estamos hartos de que no seamos tomados en cuenta. Al paso de la baja mil, anuncian derrama de millones de pesos para hoteleros, restauranteros y prestadores de servicios pero en cambio a los rancheros no nos beneficia en nada. Sr. Gobernador exigimos que nuestros caminos sean reparados cuanto antes posible

[Edited on 3-18-2022 by BajaNomad]

bajatrailrider - 3-19-2022 at 07:23 AM

Relax nature natzi more peeed off people see the trash you write. :?:

David K - 3-23-2022 at 04:06 PM

Pre-running in San Felipe can be seen on Facebook. Andy McMillin has been posting daily clips.