BajaNomad - Pole Line + Mano - March 2022

Pole Line + Mano - March 2022

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 04:43 PM

Pole Line and Mano 3/9-10/2022
Started form San Felipe North to Hwy 3 west on Hwy3 to Km 78.6
Good road with go arounds for the mud puddles
Thru gate at Los Pinos now locked permanently. Opened the two gates into the Los Pinos compound and spoke with a guy. He asked where we were going, and I told him Mano and he shrugged and walked away.
The next gate a a rancho further has removed a corral fence and gate, but still had a gate which was open across the main in track. The rancher is building a new ranch house and is apparently living in a motor home. Nobody was seen.
Further heading east we came to a n active mine and the normal road had a new gate which was not locked. Two padlocks and the chain on the ground.
Next, we found a washed-out place on the shelf road. Fortunately, we could see an abandoned ranch way below us and after a difficult turn around we used that ranch road to continue to Mano Junction.
Now days we travel south bound up Arroyo En Medio and found it full of vegetation, so we had to pick our way up the drainage. The turn east out of the wash had to be improvised and the bank was taller that it was two years ago. The rest of the Pole Line Road was in very good shape, and we traveled it slowly in the difficult places Nothing to report on “basketball hill” and the so called “Bad hill” was not a problem even for a stock Jeep on 31” tires.
We took the path across Arroyo Grande to Hwy5 at Km135
The trip was the fasted Pole Lin Road so far even with the task for winching out the grey Jeep and turning around at the Wash-out. Mostly due to the easy approach from Hwy3.

Along the road

Look for the turns at 31 49.273, -115 40.808 & 3149 233, -115 40.513

Pics coming

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 05:07 PM

Entering the los Pinos Compound

2.99 breakfast

Main Road Locked gate

Ranch with motor home

New gate

The view from Mano. Near the summit

John Harper - 3-21-2022 at 05:45 PM

Wow, that's really cool. Thank you for posting. I love dirt roads and exploring. I'm not a 4 wheeler, but I certainly admire your skills.

I've been debating driving to Mike's in a couple weeks due to lack of rain this year for trout fishing. But, just driving 40 miles of dirt may be worth it just for the ride. I've driven hundreds of miles FS roads in Wyoming and I love it.

John

[Edited on 3-22-2022 by John Harper]

Thanks for this!

David K - 3-21-2022 at 05:47 PM

Oh boy... what fun... Too bad so many gates.
So, at the locked gate, you simply entered the ranch's 'front yard' and continued to where you rejoined the Mano Grade road again?

"Now days we travel south bound up Arroyo En Medio and found it full of vegetation, so we had to pick our way up the drainage. The turn east out of the wash had to be improvised and the bank was taller that it was two years ago. "

I presume this is what the topo maps show as Cañon El Sáiz, where our group camped on Night 1, in 2015 (just south of the bottom of the Summit road, left of the first red arrow)?

4x4abc - 3-21-2022 at 07:20 PM

do you have track that you could share, Paul?

en Medio area and track

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 10:27 PM

Mano + PLR Track

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 10:35 PM

Part 1 Hwy3 Km78.6 to Mano Junction

Attachment: M+PLRK58-M Jct.gpx (147kB)
This file has been downloaded 145 times

[Edited on 3-22-2022 by PaulW]

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 10:38 PM

Part 2 Mano Jct to Hwy 5

Attachment: Mjct-Hwy5 M+PLR.gpx (307kB)
This file has been downloaded 141 times

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 11:08 PM

Gates
Probably driving thru the front yard of Los Pinos won last very long.

There is a go around for Los Pinos and the motorhome ranch gates should it be necessary.
The track not driven by me begins west of Los Pinos and heads up hill and loops back just east of the Ranch with the motorhome.
I have an old report by a SF guy that said it was drivable when all the gates were locked. That loop road, at the both intersections, of the Mano track look well used. It is quite visible on Google Earth which means one could make a GPS track. If you want to do Mano it would be a good plan to make a track for the loop.

The los Pinos bypass loop

PaulW - 3-21-2022 at 11:11 PM

David K - 3-22-2022 at 06:14 AM

Ahhh... so you totally avoided the Saiz area near the bottom of the Summit and did the White Tank access road! Got it.
Too bad we lose so much of the 1942 road drive between the summit grade and the White Tank.

Best guess of the original PLR

PaulW - 3-22-2022 at 08:18 AM

David is correct a large segment is no longer passable west of White Tank. However the really historic path remains for the adventurer.
Heading from east to west is more difficult than going from west to east due to the climbs up those famous rocky wash-outs. However this year it should be good.

Back in the day 2005, & 2015 I made tracks for the whole thing.
My best estimate for the path was from near Valley Trinidad to Chinero at Hwy 5.
Shown in 3 parts to allow a bit of detail.

There were several attempts to go around the lock gate at the A Siaz crossing and finally we all gave up. Anyway with the closure of the race summit there is no reason to deal with that locked gate.
The newer Locked gate west of the race summit cannot be bypassed.

The result is from east of White tank the PLR remains for travelers with the use of A En Medio to the north.
The track for Arroyo Grande to Chinero is used by racers and is slow for most folks.
As of now the road from the mine wells to La Ventana is damaged by flooding making that path to the east an issue.

Hwy 3 K103 to Saiz

A Saiz to White Tank

White Tank to Hwy 5

terminator 2 wallpaper

David K - 3-22-2022 at 08:35 AM

It was sure an interesting choice of routes for a telephone line, in 1942.

In my Baja Bound article, I had theorized that might have been to evade Japanese spotter planes who would look at the logical route (ie. via Valle Trinidad and San Matias Pass)???

https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/pole_lin...

PaulW - 3-24-2022 at 10:50 AM

I wonder what the status was for an easier route like Hwy 3 in 1942?
I do know the canyon from Matias to L Diablo was a difficult canyon before the road was built.

Maybe no one want to travel that direction, but to go over a mountain pass seems an unlikely route unless the locals had been using the pole line route before 1942.

David K - 3-24-2022 at 11:36 AM

There is history of the route the Pole Line Road took over the summit.

That high pass was called Portezuelo de Jamau. Mission Santa Catalina was established near it as it was considered the route to the Colorado River (from Mission San Vicente). In other words, an Indian route even before the Spanish came. The missionaries were seeking a land route to Sonora for almost their entire time in Baja.
See also page 97 of the 1962-1970 editions of the Lower California Guidebook.

Mex #3 is a newer name for the highway that began as BC #16. That highway was built and paved in the 1970s, completed in 1978. The dirt road before was developed on the route of a wagon road. The San Matias Pass was the only natural route for wagons and vehicles. I had ridden on it as a kid in '67, and driven it later in the mid-70s, before the highway was built on the east half. Even after the highway, SCORE used the older auto route on the floor of the canyon (sandy arroyo).

The last time I drove from San Matias Pass to Diablo Dry Lake (and on to San Felipe) on the original Ensenada-San Felipe road was in 1979, pre-running for that year's 1000.

4x4abc - 3-24-2022 at 12:12 PM

this 1919 map is a good indication of what was used

we have so many old maps now - let's use them

1919.jpg - 247kB

4x4abc - 3-24-2022 at 12:22 PM

1937

looks like the trail east went through Agua Caliente

1937.jpg - 211kB

PaulW - 3-24-2022 at 12:24 PM

Before racing and rancher fences the route over Portezuelo de Jamau was probably an easy drive up the valley for 1940 vintage trucks.
Of course Racing and fencing had minor changes compared to the hurricanes that rearranged the whole route, mostly on the N or E side.
I was thinking about how En Medio and Jaquegel would be like before hurricanes. Now there are 50' waterfall cliffs present.

Clues appear that the Indians had a desire for a direct route NE
But there was rancher activity on the other side of the mountain pass.

What is time frame that poly pipe arrived.
I wonder about the age of the white tank and poly pipe on the pipe road

David K - 3-24-2022 at 12:37 PM

Plenty of interesting maps of that area!
Here are several: https://vivabaja.com/maps/

What "poly pipe" are you asking about...? For the gold mine on Hwy. 5?

PaulW - 3-24-2022 at 12:38 PM

Pole line pipe from White tank north
When did poly pipe start to be used?

PaulW - 3-24-2022 at 01:15 PM

From Davids map collection
The road from Valley Trinidad to San Felipe existed in 1884
The eastern part of Buck canyon (1930) is close to the Pole line route. The west end of the Buck canyon noted as Jaquegel and El Tule. It was probably just a trail back then.

David K - 3-24-2022 at 02:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Pole line pipe from White tank north
When did poly pipe start to be used?

Ah yes, thanks for clarifying. I have not been on that road or knew of the pipe. I recall Neal Johns (RIP) talking about that route. He had hand drawn map notes with mileages and GPS from the late 1990s or early 2000s (on the Baja Almanac map).

If I can find it, I will edit and add!

Eureka!
Not his actual writing, but my copying what was on his 1997 Baja Almanac Norte.

Here are what the penciled-in notes say:
GPS; mileages; 'PaiPai' village; The GPS for Agua Caliente and the fork is missing the 31° and 115° figures; 'sand wash' to the 'bottom of the summit'; 'Pole Line'; and 'Down Easy' from the white tank. Neal went to 'Campo La Victoria' ruins (featured on older AAA maps).

[Edited on 3-24-2022 by David K]

4x4abc - 3-24-2022 at 03:08 PM

my very first trip on the Pole Line Road was in 1986 - pipe and tank were already there
and they were dry and abandoned at that time too
source for the water was/is Jamau Cattle Camp

the water line parallels PLR for some time after Jamau
then a separate dozer track on higher grounds leads to the tank
the water line continues for a while east of the holding tank

I traced it when Google Earth still had older images up
now it is hard to find

tank.jpg - 272kB

David K - 3-24-2022 at 03:13 PM

Blue line is?
Yellow lines are?
Thanks!
I also added in Neal Johns' notes I found, above in my reply.

4x4abc - 3-24-2022 at 03:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Blue line is?
Yellow lines are?
Thanks!
I also added in Neal Johns' notes I found, above in my reply.

blue - water line
yellow - road or dozer track

PaulW - 3-24-2022 at 04:29 PM

Thanks Harald
I did not know about the water line

4x4abc - 3-24-2022 at 09:46 PM

I found it!

found the old trail between Santa Catarina and Agua Caliente (continuing to Rio Hardy)

31°39'34.54"N, 115°39'12.95"W

very distinct trail

trail.jpg - 222kB

[Edited on 3-25-2022 by 4x4abc]

bajatrailrider - 3-25-2022 at 02:20 PM

cool picture ABC can we drive it with 4 wheels

ehall - 3-25-2022 at 02:31 PM

Paul. Where all our motorcycle tracks still there? We went thru the vegetation in the wash then all the way south to the summit and went up. Locked gate at top with a moto trail around it.

4x4abc - 3-25-2022 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

cool picture ABC can we drive it with 4 wheels

don't think so - bike should work though

4x4abc - 3-25-2022 at 08:18 PM

found another important cross mountain trail - La Vinata
31.649353, -115.603633

best here:
https://satellites.pro/mapa_de_Mexico#31.649353,-115.603633,...

mtgoat666 - 3-25-2022 at 09:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

found another important cross mountain trail - La Vinata
31.649353, -115.603633

best here:
https://satellites.pro/mapa_de_Mexico#31.649353,-115.603633,...

Me thinks you are finding cattle trails. Cattle are like food-motivated-robots that make trails to food or water sources.

4x4abc - 3-25-2022 at 09:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

found another important cross mountain trail - La Vinata
31.649353, -115.603633

best here:
https://satellites.pro/mapa_de_Mexico#31.649353,-115.603633,...

Me thinks you are finding cattle trails. Cattle are like food-motivated-robots that make trails to food or water sources.

how do you think the first humans found their way around?
they followed animal trails
and when the Jesuits showed up - they followed the Indian trails
many of the early roads do the same thing - they followed the Jesuit trails

and it works the other way around as well
the trails/roads abandoned by humans are now used by animals
I use that as an important tool when old roads are overgrown beyond recognition - I look for animal trails
and bingo - back on track

here is one of those situations
animal tracks helped us a couple of times to follow the old road
https://carlosnpainter.smugmug.com/Events/La-Fortuna/

[Edited on 3-26-2022 by 4x4abc]

PaulW - 3-26-2022 at 06:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Paul. Where all our motorcycle tracks still there? We went thru the vegetation in the wash then all the way south to the summit and went up. Locked gate at top with a moto trail around it.

Hi Ed,
I have not been up that summit track for several years. Do you mean the gate heading down from the summit with the big 4" pipe?

If you took the track up Saiz then we would not see your tracks because we went up En Medio. I am surprised you got the bikes around the summit Gate from my memory?

Trails

PaulW - 3-26-2022 at 07:20 AM

Cattle trail
Leaving Parral and taking the hike toward Matomi ranch I headed out with no trail to follow. Started out following the gully then went astray heading to my right. It was difficult and lots of cactus. I got to the saddle and turned around and found the cattle trail much easier. That trail is barely visible on Google Earth. BTW, the cattle trail is a huge time saver.
Here are some screen shots

Coords:
Saddle 30 28.559, -115 6.473, Parral Abandoned building 30 29.410, -115 6.988

bajatrailrider - 3-26-2022 at 09:21 AM

most all cow trails great for dirt bikes half of mine are just that.

ehall - 3-26-2022 at 02:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Quote: Originally posted by ehall

Paul. Where all our motorcycle tracks still there? We went thru the vegetation in the wash then all the way south to the summit and went up. Locked gate at top with a moto trail around it.

Yes. the pipe gate at the top was closed. The trail around it was well used by bikes.

PaulW - 1-4-2023 at 09:05 AM

Planning on another rtip this year
Reflecting of the March 2022 trip
So when Score raced over Mano the permanently locked gate was unlocked and used and the result was they did not drive thru the El Pinos front yard.
Next trip over Mano summit I will use the bypass that avoids both Los Pinos and the next ranch we had to drive thru. The bypass shows clearly on Google earth. A good exploration trip.
SCORE knew about the sketchy shelf road and routed the track down the valley past the abandoned farm like we had to do. When we went past that shelf road it was long before SCORE did any marking.
Regarding Saiz. The path is deep sand and Enmedio is easier especially since Enmedio is not gated. For four wheeled rigs access between Saiz and the pole line is no longer an option due to the gate at Saiz exit.
Thanks to Harald’s for his 1919 map. Several of us searched for months looking for the historical arroyo called El Tule now has the modern name Jaquegel.

bajatrailrider - 1-4-2023 at 10:25 AM

Time flies me and Mike w you guys pole line run 2015. the place we camped before locked gate. Do you still pass that route me and Mike still have same trucks his red 04 Tacoma . My 2014 Nissan turbo diesel its only on 35,000 miles . Im ready to sell it order 23 hilux diesel.

David K - 1-4-2023 at 11:29 AM

Paul wasn't on that trip, Larry, but he did the scouting work before we got there, as I recall.

We camped just past the steel locked gate, across Arroyo El Saiz from the bottom of the original Summit Grade, up in Arroyo El Saiz just past that gate blocking the 1942 road to the east.

From our camp we drove a bit south then climbed out of the arroyo to meet the newer road going up the mountain, and took that down to catch the 1942 road heading east.

On my first map, a close up topo map, the dotted route from the locked gate is the detour we used. Mileages shown are for then route, between the arrows:

Edit: the 2.2 probably should be 1.7, as shown on the second map.

This is the full Pole Line Road we drove on the Almanac map, noted:

As you may recall, Ken insisted on going left at the T Junction, while my little group went right, as we were going to look in Arroyo Grande for Melchior Diaz' Grave. That left road was washed out and you had to turn around, pulling that dead Ford Bronco, and come out to the highway by La Ventana.
:wow:

Here are the 2015 Pole Line Road Trip Photos: https://vivabaja.com/pole-line-road-2015/

Here is my Baja Bound article: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/pole_lin...

[Edited on 1-4-2023 by David K]

PaulW - 1-4-2023 at 11:42 AM

The way we go nowadays by avoiding Saiz is a simpler way. Nowadays the northern route has from the T junction has been found to be a no-go.

David K - 1-4-2023 at 12:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

The way we go nowadays by avoiding Saiz is a simpler way. Nowadays the northern route has from the T junction has been found to be a no-go.

Is that the road that joins PLR by the 'White Tank'?
Neal Johns had scouted that out a long time back.
So, they never fixed the road from the T Junction to Ejido Saldaña?

PaulW - 1-4-2023 at 01:13 PM

John's solid line near "2" is the pipe line. Just before teh north end of it we turn left and head to Enmedio because we want to avoid a sketchy wash crossing. That pipe line starts at the pole line track about 1/4 mile east of white tank.

David K - 1-4-2023 at 02:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

John's solid line near "2" is the pipe line. Just before teh north end of it we turn left and head to Enmedio because we want to avoid a sketchy wash crossing. That pipe line starts at the pole line track about 1/4 mile east of white tank.

Neal Johns map notes Paul is referring to: