BajaNomad

San Borja and San Fernando settlements

Lance S. - 10-8-2022 at 10:01 AM

I was looking at the death records for San Borja from 1768 - 1822, so they begin with the Franciscan takeover. These are the settlements listed.

De la Casa (San Borja)
San Regis
San Juan
San Ignacio
Los Angeles
Rosario
Guadalupe
San Pablo de Calagnujuet

They are all easy enough to find except Guadalupe and San Juan, any ideas? Are they obvious and I'm just not seeing them?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X4SS-R7F?i=...


[Edited on 12-5-2022 by Lance S.]

Lance S. - 10-8-2022 at 10:57 AM

Was San Pablo de Calagnujuet the name of the church at Calamajue after the Cabacera was moved? The name of the Visita? It was short lived, like it was being used temporarily for convenience until the population could be reduced to settlements closer to San Borja. Interesting that it was a Visita of San Borja and not Santa Maria.

[Edited on 10-8-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 10-8-2022 at 11:12 AM

Guadalupe was on the bay north of Bahia de Los Angeles (aka Remedios).

Calamajué was the mission site for 7 months. No church or visita remained there when Santa Maria was moved.

I will research the name you provided.

[Edited on 10-8-2022 by David K]

4x4abc - 10-8-2022 at 11:24 AM

San Juan y San Pablo is the Aguaje (water hole) at Playa Calamajue

San Pablo.jpg - 206kB

4x4abc - 10-8-2022 at 11:33 AM

never understood the importance of Guadalupe/Remedios.
what made it attractive to the Jesuits?

bajaric - 10-8-2022 at 12:13 PM

Seafood?

Perhaps "San Juan" is today called Rancho San Gregorio? Kier noted that the foundation was cut stone blocks typical of the missionary period. San Gregorio is about 8 miles east of San Borja.

David K - 10-8-2022 at 04:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
never understood the importance of Guadalupe/Remedios.
what made it attractive to the Jesuits?


Thanks for the 1757 map posted above. I had thought of the San Juan y San Pablo connection after I replied above.

At Bahía Guadalupe, there was (no doubt) a sizeable Native population. That explains why a visita was there, for the padre to visit and teach the locals about God and the King of Spain.

David K - 10-8-2022 at 04:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Seafood?

Perhaps "San Juan" is today called Rancho San Gregorio? Kier noted that the foundation was cut stone blocks typical of the missionary period. San Gregorio is about 8 miles east of San Borja.




In 2001, Amo Pescar, my son, and I, joined up with Neal & Marian Johns to see old San Gregorio.

In the 1950s, when visited by Howard Gulick (Lower California Guidebook author), San Gregorio was an active ranch...



A Nomad search will turn up many more photos I took there.

Here's one more:



[Edited on 10-8-2022 by David K]

Lance S. - 10-8-2022 at 04:56 PM

Thank you guys,

Did Puerto Calamajue continue to be used for a short period after the expulsion? That could explain San Pablo de Calagnujuet.

If San Pablo de Calagnujuet was a settlement formerly under Calamajue then Rancho San Luis could also be a good candidate. Closer to San Borja so it would make sense that it would end up under that missions jurisdiction.

San Gregorio is pretty convincing for San Juan, being right off canyon San Juan.


[Edited on 10-11-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 10-9-2022 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Thank you guys,

Did Puerto Calamajue continue to be used for a short period after the expulsion? That could explain San Pablo de Calagnujuet.

If San Pablo de Calagnujuet was a settlement formally under Calamajue then Rancho San Luis could also be a good candidate. Closer to San Borja so it would make sense that it would end up under that missions jurisdiction.

San Gregorio is pretty convincing for San Juan, being right off canyon San Juan.

[Edited on 10-9-2022 by Lance S.]


The expulsion orders were read to the California Jesuits in December of 1767. The mission at Calamajué was abandoned and relocated up to where we call 'Santa María' in May of 1767.

The port of Bahía San Luis Gonzaga, where a warehoure was built, was established. It may have not served the Jesuits as much as it did the Franciscans and Dominicans, who both used it for establishing and supplying the missions of San Fernando and beyond.

It was Junípero Serra, during his expedition to San Diego from Loreto, in May of 1769, who ordered a trail be established to the shore of Gonzaga Bay. It passed the 'Antelope Spring', an oasis midway between the El Camino Real (~3.5 miles northward from Santa María) and the bay shore.

This is a paper from Dr. Eric Ritter, who did a dig at the warehouse: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/488b16_d6a1399d09974ddd9dd3b0...

We have called that trail, "Serra's Cargo Trail" perhaps starting when Nomad 'Baja Bucko' rode a mule over it in 2001? The trail is shown on the new Benchmark Baja Road Atlas, as a branch of El Camino Real. She even placed a virtual geocache there. Some have hiked up to it from Hwy. 5 (the cache was removed from the website).

Last March, I took this photo of it from the Mission Santa María road, shortly past where the two join:

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 08:45 AM

OK thank you. So it was the Franciscans who had a trail built to Gonzaga. 1769 or after, so I suppose it is possible that Puerto Calamajue was used for a short time after the expulsion. I will see when San Pablo de Calagnujuet disappears from the register.

David K - 10-9-2022 at 08:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
OK thank you. So it was the Franciscans who had a trail built to Gonzaga. 1769 or after, so I suppose it is possible that Puerto Calamajue was used for a short time after the expulsion. I will see when San Pablo de Calagnujuet disappears from the register.



Please keep up the research! "The truth is out there"

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 09:17 AM

I just stumbled across father Mora's visit on page 63, neat. Hope the link works.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X4SS-5BG?i=...

4x4abc - 10-9-2022 at 10:04 AM

is there any known water source at Los Remedios/Guadalupe?

why would the bay get the name "Remedy"?
remedy for what?

4x4abc - 10-9-2022 at 11:04 AM

I have 2 locations for San Juan:
Rancho San Juan 28°40'43.72"N, 113°40'25.44"W (seems newer)
and
Rancho Aguaje de San Juan 28°39'56.20"N, 113°36'1.61"W (historic location)

4x4abc - 10-9-2022 at 11:06 AM

Los Remedios
https://www.behindthename.com/name/remedios

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 11:13 AM

Goldbaum map shows Guadalupe at the south end of Remedios at or near the shore.

[Edited on 10-9-2022 by Lance S.]

4x4abc - 10-9-2022 at 11:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  


Edit: While I was looking for background, I ran upon a couple of really cool documents from the Secretaría de Marina giving a lot of navegation detail for both coasts of the peninsula:

West Coast

East Coast



[Edited on 10-9-2022 by lencho]


I have been using those papers a lot
locate lighthouses, puertos etc
however, lotsa wrong locations
hey, its a Mexican paper

the lat/long below will send you to the mountains - not to a lighthouse

Screen Shot 2022-10-09 at 12.16.52 PM.png - 299kB

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 11:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
I have 2 locations for San Juan:
Rancho San Juan 28°40'43.72"N, 113°40'25.44"W (seems newer)
and
Rancho Aguaje de San Juan 28°39'56.20"N, 113°36'1.61"W (historic location)


That second one gets my vote.

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 11:54 AM

Is that second one the same place mentioned here?

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=59017

San Gregorio and Aguaje de San Juan are so close together I imagine they both would have been part of the same estancia.


[Edited on 10-9-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 10-9-2022 at 01:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Is that second one the same place mentioned here?

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=59017

San Gregorio and Aguaje de San Juan are so close together I imagine they both would have been part of the same estancia.


[Edited on 10-9-2022 by Lance S.]


Yes.

David K - 10-9-2022 at 01:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
I have 2 locations for San Juan:
Rancho San Juan 28°40'43.72"N, 113°40'25.44"W (seems newer)
and
Rancho Aguaje de San Juan 28°39'56.20"N, 113°36'1.61"W (historic location)


Very good, Harald... and here is the original old Rancho San Gregorio, of my photos above: 28°39'49"N, 113°39'55"W

David K - 10-9-2022 at 01:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
is there any known water source at Los Remedios/Guadalupe?

why would the bay get the name "Remedy"?
remedy for what?

Another thought: "Remedios" is also a person's name; I've seen the place labeled both as "Bahía de Remedios" and "Bahía de los Remedios", which leaves room for thought.

Edit: While I was looking for background, I ran upon a couple of really cool documents from the Secretaría de Marina giving a lot of navegation detail for both coasts of the peninsula:

West Coast

East Coast



VERY COOL links!! Thanks!:light:

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 03:44 PM

Is this Mina El Toro? 29°05'46"N 113°35'58"W If so then the Goldbaum map makes it look like Guadalupe is about here 29°07'34"N 113°34'56"W. One of those places you could dig behind the shore in an arroyo for water? The water source for the El Toro mine?

Some more road closer to the gulf. 29°06'27"N 113°35'32"W

[Edited on 10-9-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 10-9-2022 at 04:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
Is this Mina El Toro? 29°05'46"N 113°35'58"W If so then the Goldbaum map makes it look like Guadalupe is about here 29°07'34"N 113°34'56"W. One of those places you could dig behind the shore in an arroyo for water? The water source for the El Toro mine?

Some more road closer to the gulf. 29°06'27"N 113°35'32"W

[Edited on 10-9-2022 by Lance S.]


That is the area of some of the copper mines and the trail to the ghost town and just past there, where the road V's into the right side of the slope.

See my article on El Toro for the abandoned village location: https://www.bajabound.com/bajaadventures/bajatravel/la_gring...

Lance S. - 10-9-2022 at 07:06 PM

The legend is missing from this Crosby map. What does the symbol at Aguaje de San Juan mean? A church?

https://octopup.org/img/misc/davidk/ecr/ecr-maps-1.jpg

David K - 10-10-2022 at 08:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lance S.  
The legend is missing from this Crosby map. What does the symbol at Aguaje de San Juan mean? A church?

https://octopup.org/img/misc/davidk/ecr/ecr-maps-1.jpg


Indeed it is! The map source also lacks a legend: https://web.archive.org/web/20160329012947/http://www.sandie...

Forthnately, I have the 1977 Winter Journel of San Diego History. Here is the legend:

Lance S. - 10-13-2022 at 05:46 PM

Thank you for posting the legend. I trust Crosby has a good reason for placing it there instead of San Gregorio where the foundation stones are.


Here is a quote from Porcayo's paper on Calamajue.
"encuentran las numerosas rancherías donde habitaban una cantidad considerable deindígenas, como la de Calamajué o San Pedro y San Pablo, la ranchería de Guadalupe (Carta deFermín Francisco de Lasuén a Francisco Palou), y la de San Luis Gonzaga."

Calamajue o San Pedro y San Pablo? Unfortunately there is no citation.

I was going through the register for San Borja more systematically and realized that San Pablo de Calagnujuet is mentioned so infrequently it must just be people from there who happened to die at San Borja rather than being under that missions jurisdiction. The last mention is spring of 1772. Santa Maria is mentioned two or three times as well.

https://www.academia.edu/38430811/La_Misi%C3%B3n_de_Calamaju...




[Edited on 10-14-2022 by Lance S.]

Lance S. - 12-1-2022 at 06:49 PM

These are the settlements listed in the San Fernando register.

De la Casa - San Fernando
San Joseph/San Jose
Las Llagas
San Luis (Gonzaga)
San Juan de Dios

Any idea about Las Llagas?

[Edited on 12-2-2022 by Lance S.]

[Edited on 12-6-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 12-2-2022 at 09:14 AM

I sure hope you find out... The Franciscan's and the Dominican's reports and letters are hard to find. I think many were lost in the 1906 San Francisco quake/ fire.

The best preserved Dominican records are in the 1960 Loyola University dissertation: The Domincan Mission Foundations in Baja California, 1769-1822 by Albert Bertrand Nieser.

Maybe followed by Zephyrin Engelhardt's The Missions and Missionaries of California, Vol. 1, Lower California, 1929. Engelhardt copied mission records, stored in San Francisco before the quake/ fire.

I will review them both to see if these rancheria/pueblo/visita names appear in them.

Franciscan President Junípero Serra founded the mission of San Fernando de Velicatá in 1769 on his trek north from Loreto to San Diego. However, the Franciscan handed off the peninsula mission field to the Dominicans in 1773, barely four years later. The adobe buildings we have seen in photos from 1905 (North) and later were likely all Dominican buildings, adding to or replacing the first huts and adobes erected there.

I detail this mission's history on pages 116-122 of my book.

David K - 12-2-2022 at 01:26 PM

After reviewing Nieser's 1960 work, he focusses on the Dominican founded missions, not the previous ones they took over operating. I only see mention of the padres assigned to San Fernando and how they had to deal with the Franciscan's at San Fernando, who wanted to take all the Baja mission's supplies and artifacts for their Alta California missions.

One book published, from a Baja California Dominican, was Observations on California, 1772-1790 by Luis Sales. The only mention of San Fernando (pages 100 & 181) was about the transfering Santa María to the new mission at Velicatá.

Engelhardt (in 1929) details the 'rancherias' (Indian settlements) of Mission San Fernando, in 1773 (on page 606) as: San Luis, Santa Rosa, San Francisco, De Los Llagas, San Juan de Dios, Santo Domingo, and San Miguel.

Modern author, Michael Mathes, in his 1977 book, usually lists mission visitas for each. However, only San Juan de Dios is named for San Fernando.

[since Mission Santa María was still open until 1774 or 1775, I would not be certain that the San Luis mentioned is at the bay we call 'San Luis Gonzaga' or 'Willard' today. However, the cargo trail west from Gonzaga Bay's mission warehouse went towards San Fernando, bypassing Santa María, just to the north.]

David K - 12-2-2022 at 06:47 PM

Thank you for the quest!

Lance S. - 12-3-2022 at 07:33 PM

"Since Mission Santa María was still open until 1774 or 1775, I would not be certain that the San Luis mentioned is at the bay we call 'San Luis Gonzaga' or 'Willard' today. However, the cargo trail west from Gonzaga Bay's mission warehouse went towards San Fernando, bypassing Santa María, just to the north."

I totally agree. This is the place Linck calls the Mission of San Luis in 1765. It was what the "lost missions" of la Magdalena ,San Juan Bautista, and Delores Del Norte were. It was between Laguna Chapala and Agua Dulce, likely San Ignacito. Maybe you could post that part of the 1766 Linck expedition?

Del Barco reasons that la Magdalena was the first site of the mission that would become Santa Gertrudis. I think this is why INAH calls la Magdalena a mission. By that reasoning San Luis would be the first site of the mission that would become Mission Santa Maria. A chunk of the population of San Luis along with their leader were taken to Calamajue to found that Cabacera. Their leader Juan Nepumoceno became neophyte governor at Calamajue. This demonstrates continuity between Lincks Mission of San Luis and Calamajue
Any way you look at it San Luis is an integral part of the story of Santa Maria.

Evidently San Luis was quite far inland from the bay of the same name. Maybe Guadalupe was also quite far inland from the bay of that name. The modern Rancho San Luis at the southern end of the Sierra Asamblea doesn't seem impossible. You mentioned that Guadalupe was a Vista in an earlier post, where does that come from?



[Edited on 12-4-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 12-3-2022 at 08:52 PM

Guadalupe was one of the pueblos or rancherias of San Borja. Now, when a priest visits these pueblos for instruction they became 'pueblos de visita' or visita for short. In Alta California they were known as visiting stations or 'estaciones'. Many had chapels that looked like small mission churches.

As for the first site of Santa María, that was well documented and at Calamajué.
Sure, I will show content from Linck's diary.
Exploring history is fun!

Linck's Diary of 1766 (and route map of the first days)

David K - 12-4-2022 at 12:26 PM













Lance S. - 12-4-2022 at 07:35 PM

Thank you David. Guadalupe is mentioned on page 45, while at agua amarga, and 46 while at aqua leon. The text only seems to make sense if the expedition passed through Guadalupe on the first day out from San Borja.


I believe the next page after you left off, page 52, is where Linck mentions arroyo San Jose.

David K - 12-4-2022 at 08:52 PM

Ok, I had the above already scanned. I can scan more. You also may enjoy having this book, too. The Dawson Baja California Travels set is really a gold mine for us history nerds.

Lance S. - 12-5-2022 at 12:04 PM

Don't worry about posting it. I have a copy buried in a box somewhere in storage. I remember the gist of it. He suggested a Cabacera for San Luis be established on arroyo San Jose, he said agriculture would not be possible but it could raise cattle. His description sounds like here 29°21'50"N 114°44'52"W.

Thats one possibility for the San Fernando settlement called San Joseph/ San Jose. Another possibility is is San Jose de las Palomas located here. 29°24'13"N 114°37'11"W. That one is marked Las Palomas on Goldbaum and seems to be called Codornices on modern maps.



[Edited on 12-5-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 12-5-2022 at 12:30 PM

Ok, amigo. Let me know if you need to see it later.

As for the other 'missions' beyond the true missions of Old California: A mission was an enterprise or project (not just a church), and many places were called missions by the Padres. Unless the new project had an endowment to pay for it and a priest assigned to it, it was not a 'true' mission.
Loreto had two visitas that were called missions early on, San Juan Bautista de Londó and Nuestra Señora de los Dolores (not the same place as the place to the south that became a mission).

The Jesuits established 17 missions. Confusion occurs because nearly half of them moved one or more times. Often the mission name, used in writings, reflected the new location name rather than the official name. My book clears up this confusion.

Lance S. - 12-5-2022 at 06:19 PM

Sorry to beat a dead horse but are San Juan de Dios and Las Llagas the same place?

"Juan de Dios de las Llagas Dos meses después de Crespí, varios días acampó fray Junípero Serra en San Juan de Dios. Se vio obligado a hacerlo debido a que se le agravó una llaga que ya tenía desde varios años atrás y justo en el paraje se le hinchó y le impidió caminar. Fue en dicho paraje donde el arriero de la expedición, quien con frecuencia le curaba las llagas a los caballos y mulas, le curó la llaga a Serra, quedando desde entonces aliviado de la molestia. Muchos consideraron milagrosa esta curación, ya que ningún médico había logrado curarlo. Debido a esto, durante mucho tiempo al paraje se le conoció como San Juan de Dios de las Llagas"

https://www.elvigia.net/el-valle/2012/5/20/juan-dios-81481.h...

EDÌT: Evidently not a true story. Just looked at the death records for San Fernando. San Juan de Dios and Las Llagas are indeed two different places.

[Edited on 12-6-2022 by Lance S.]

David K - 12-6-2022 at 09:49 AM

Discovery is a good thing!

Here is the translation of the quote you posted:
"Juan de Dios de las Llagas
Two months after Crespí, Fray Junípero Serra camped for several days in San Juan de Dios. He was forced to do so because a sore that he had already had for several years worsened and right in the spot it swelled up and prevented him from walking.
It was in that spot where the expedition's muleteer, who often treated the sores on the horses and mules, cured Serra's sore, since then being relieved of the discomfort. Many considered it miraculous this healing, since no doctor had managed to cure him.
Due to this, for a long time the place was known as San Juan de Dios de las Llagas"

4x4abc - 12-6-2022 at 01:09 PM

is that the one north of San Fernando?

David K - 12-6-2022 at 01:13 PM

Yes, I have photos from 2000, before the destruction of 2006, and after (2017). Jack Swords has photos from 2003.

Lance S. - 12-24-2022 at 11:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Guadalupe was one of the pueblos or rancherias of San Borja. Now, when a priest visits these pueblos for instruction they became 'pueblos de visita' or visita for short. In Alta California they were known as visiting stations or 'estaciones'. Many had chapels that looked like small mission churches.

As for the first site of Santa María, that was well documented and at Calamajué.
Sure, I will show content from Linck's diary.
Exploring history is fun!


Arnes and Diaz had already arrived at San Borja before any mention of the Mission of San Luis. Their arrival freed Linck up to begin work on the next mission to the north.
They already had the funding, they were using the same endowment used for San Borja. I believe Clavigero included that in his book, it is discussed by Del Barco. In a 1765 letter Linck even thanks the treasurer for supplies sent to the mission.

I have to very respectfully disagree. The documentation is pretty clear regarding an earlier site.

David K - 12-24-2022 at 11:59 AM

The Jesuits frequently named proposed missions in their letters, however Arnes and Diaz did not leave San Borja to establish a new mission until they left for Calamajué In October of 1766.

Another point is there already was a Mission San Luis 1737-1768. That was how they typically called Mission San Luis Gonzaga.

Figuring out the mysteries of the past is fun (to me)!