BajaNomad

Violence without justice on Mexican voters minds

Santiago - 12-21-2023 at 07:48 AM

Report of continued violence and Mexican citizens anger and frustration here.

elgatoloco - 12-22-2023 at 06:12 PM

Tragic and sad.

Hook - 12-23-2023 at 07:34 AM

Sa-sa-sa same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

Leave it to the NYT to try and capitalize on a few recent, high profile shootouts, to try and make the situation seem different. Click-click-click go the computer mice.

Probably the start of their campaign to try and influence who the next president will be.

Most of the Mexicans I know, look upon AMLO's presidency with disgust. They don't think he's corrupt, just incompetent and a complete fool. Many of them voted for him.

mtgoat666 - 12-23-2023 at 08:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Sa-sa-sa same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

Leave it to the NYT to try and capitalize on a few recent, high profile shootouts, to try and make the situation seem different. Click-click-click go the computer mice.

Probably the start of their campaign to try and influence who the next president will be.

Most of the Mexicans I know, look upon AMLO's presidency with disgust. They don't think he's corrupt, just incompetent and a complete fool. Many of them voted for him.


You are an out-of-touch fool if you dont think mexicans are worried about the violence in their country.

RFClark - 12-23-2023 at 11:13 AM

Goat,

Violence is endemic around the globe. In case you missed it there are regional wars spreading over several areas around Iran and Russia. South America is close to a regional war over oil. The Western Pacific is just plain scary.

Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns has recently had a number of religious inspired shootings with fully automatic weapons, and of course murders with lots of sharp pointy things.

It’s missed entirely by you but still worth asking. Where ever do those Mexican cartels get the drugs and precursor chemicals to make the drugs from? (China?) Imported Chinese drones are used frequently to drop bombs on or directly impact into rivals vehicles and locations. Drug vehicles are beginning to resemble Russian APCs.

Then there are the estimated 250K OTMs along Mexico’s Northern border. However do you imagine they managed to cross Mexico entirely undetected?

Since to even wonder how the known problems in Mexico have failed to be addressed is forbidden here because “It’s Political”. So I won’t. That said putting a throw rug over the Elephant in your living room only draws the eye!

I can’t imagine why ordinary people are worried. (Not!) At a time like this the question is not are you being paranoid but are you being paranoid enough! Sadly the answer is in the negative.

[Edited on 12-23-2023 by RFClark]

[Edited on 12-23-2023 by RFClark]

Hook - 12-23-2023 at 05:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Hook  
Sa-sa-sa same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

Leave it to the NYT to try and capitalize on a few recent, high profile shootouts, to try and make the situation seem different. Click-click-click go the computer mice.

Probably the start of their campaign to try and influence who the next president will be.

Most of the Mexicans I know, look upon AMLO's presidency with disgust. They don't think he's corrupt, just incompetent and a complete fool. Many of them voted for him.


You are an out-of-touch fool if you dont think mexicans are worried about the violence in their country.



Reading comprehension seems to elude you, at times.

I'm scratching my heading, trying to figure out how you concluded that I think Mexicans aren't worried about the violence. Of course they are. Anyone living down here knows that. But hey have a more fatalistic perspective on it. Little wonder, given their violent history of coups, political assassinations and the impunity with which the cartels operate.

Then, it hit me.............I DESECRATED YOUR GREAT LIBERAL BIBLE; the New York Times.

I had to be dealt with..........:lol:

surabi - 12-23-2023 at 10:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  


Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns...


That is a completely false statement. You should do some research before you spread misinformation.
Many Europeans legally own guns. Owning a gun for hunting or sport shooting is allowed. Almost all Swiss own guns. Europeans have restrictions on the type of guns a private citizen is allowed to own, they have strict background checks, and you have to give the reason you want to own a gun.

[Edited on 12-24-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 12-23-2023 at 11:19 PM

You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.

The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.

The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.

Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.

“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices. Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”

Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe”

AKgringo - 12-24-2023 at 09:03 AM

It wasn't the Swiss armed citizens that kept them safe. It was the Swiss banking system that was sheltering stashes of German wealth that the Third Reich didn't want to mess up.

RFClark - 12-24-2023 at 09:31 AM

AK,

Probably that as well. The Germans felt it would have taken in excess of 30 divisions to subdue the Swiss. That’s a hard nut and they had bigger fish to fry.

Ateo - 12-24-2023 at 09:57 AM

Humans commit crimes based off many things, but an important factor for a criminal is:

Will they get caught?

In Mexico, many crimes go unsolved.

I sometimes ponder if we have free will. If you put a criminal in a certain situation 1000 times, and watch their thought process - will the commit that crime every time? Are they choosing? Or are past patterns choosing? Are their life experiences choosing? Is there a person choosing anything in any of us?

Take a mushroom this Christmas Eve on the beach in Mazatlan and ponder these things.

:biggrin::P:D:P:biggrin:

Jajajajajjaja.

Merry Christmas from an Ateo or whatever it is I am.

Viva Mexico Cabrones.

surabi - 12-24-2023 at 10:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.

The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.

The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.

Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.

“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices. Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”

Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe”


Love how you tie yourself in knots trying to deny that what you wrote is incorrect.
And "The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there." ???

Europe is a continent. Switzerland is a European country. You stated "Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns..."

That Finland and Switzerland "are not typical" doesn't make them not Europeans.

That Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, which is an economic and political entity, doesn't mean it isn't a part of Europe or that the Swiss aren't Europeans.

You made a false statement. Own it.

stillnbaja - 12-24-2023 at 10:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.

The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.

The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.

Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.

“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices. Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”

Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe”


Love how you tie yourself in knots trying to deny that what you wrote is incorrect.
And "The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there." ???

Europe is a continent. Switzerland is a European country. You stated "Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns..."

That Finland and Switzerland "are not typical" doesn't make them not Europeans.

That Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, which is an economic and political entity, doesn't mean it isn't a part of Europe or that the Swiss aren't Europeans.

You made a false statement. Own it.


surabi - 12-24-2023 at 12:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  


I sometimes ponder if we have free will. If you put a criminal in a certain situation 1000 times, and watch their thought process - will the commit that crime every time? Are they choosing? Or are past patterns choosing? Are their life experiences choosing? Is there a person choosing anything in any of us?



I actually just listened to a podcast the other day which was about exactly that. I think the interviewee was a psychologist or sociologist, whose theory is that free will is an illusion. Not because some entity called God is directing everything, but because peoples' "choices" are based upon many things which they can't control and may not even be aware of, like family and cultural attitudes that influenced their values and thinking process from an early age.

And it is now an accepted fact in human psychology that one's basic belief system, meaning their perception of the world and their place in it, is fully formed by the age of six. An example would be, "Humans are basically good, and most try to do the right thing" vs. "Everyone is out to screw you, so you might as well screw them first".

And one's basic belief system can be altered, but it usually involves some major life event- almost dying in an accident or illness, or for instance, a white soldier who has been indoctrinated from an early age to hate Blacks, having a fellow Black soldier save their life.

Even basic human emotions are different and ellicit different behaviors based on what is culturally acceptable. There was a study where the same scenario was set up in different countries, with the participants asked how it made them feel and what it made them feel like doing. The same scenario that caused an American to say it made them angry, and it made them feel like yelling at, or punching someone, in Japan ellicited the participant saying it made them feel hurt and made them want to leave the room.

[Edited on 12-24-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 12-24-2023 at 01:25 PM

The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence. Perhaps as a result of universal military service or effective enforcement of weapon (not gun) laws.

The majority of the EU (political europe) and the UK have gun laws. But few weapon laws. Illegal automatic weapons are literally sold on the streets in some EU countries.

Dance around that! Try spelling or punctuation! But avoid the obvious conclusion that just gun laws don’t stop violence and mass killings.

mtgoat666 - 12-24-2023 at 01:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence. Perhaps as a result of universal military service or effective enforcement of weapon (not gun) laws.

The majority of the EU (political europe) and the UK have gun laws. But few weapon laws. Illegal automatic weapons are literally sold on the streets in some EU countries.

Dance around that! Try spelling or punctuation! But avoid the obvious conclusion that just gun laws don’t stop violence and mass killings.


Americans have proven that they are irresponsible with guns. Statistics dont lie. It is apparent that Americans as a whole would be safer without guns. Some people would feel inadequate w/o a gun, but that would be a small price to pay for safety of citizens.
Or perhaps Finnish socialism is the key, eh? Be more finn, vote leftist.

surabi - 12-24-2023 at 02:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence. Perhaps as a result of universal military service or effective enforcement of weapon (not gun) laws.



Wrong again. The Swiss have a strong tradition of hunting and sports gun use. There are tons of shooting clubs and competitions where people learn gun safety and marksmanship.

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o...

The majority of Americans have a completely different reason for owning guns. Paranoia and distrust of others is rampant in the US and the majority of US gun owners will say they own a gun for the purpose of protecting themselves, rather than for hunting, target shooting, or because they are ranchers or farmers who use a gun to ward off predators that endanger their livestock or decimate their crops.

Gun violence is the result of lax gun laws, lack of safety training and practice (the number of US children who get accidentally killed, or kill others after finding their parent's loaded gun is shocking and tragic), a high rate of mental illness, and the attitude that shooting someone is a reasonable response to "perceived" (i.e. subjective) danger.

So while many Americans think that pointing a gun at, or shooting some stranger who trespasses on their property, but hasn't threatened them in any way, is a perfectly reasonable response, people in other countries would consider that to be insane.



[Edited on 12-24-2023 by surabi]

pacificobob - 12-24-2023 at 05:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by stillnbaja  
Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
You left out the fully automatic weapons part. Not legal but available on the black market.

The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there. The Germans overran Europe in WW2. They left the Swiss alone because they had universal male conscription and were armed to the teeth. They also blew all of the bridges leading into the country.

The Finns are also well armed, but they have Russia next door so it’s understandable.

Today the Swiss have a weapons law not a gun law.

“In Switzerland weapons include all types of firearm, daggers and other kinds of knives, certain self-defense sprays and electrical shock devices. Compressed air and CO2 guns, imitation firearms, blank cartridge and airsoft guns are also classified as weapons as they often cannot outwardly be distinguished from real weapons and are frequently used to commit offenses.”

Note that the swiss consider sharp pointy things as weapons unlike the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Neither Finland or Switzerland are typical of “Europe”


Love how you tie yourself in knots trying to deny that what you wrote is incorrect.
And "The swiss are not part of Europe though they are located there." ???

Europe is a continent. Switzerland is a European country. You stated "Europe, the place where no one but the government has guns..."

That Finland and Switzerland "are not typical" doesn't make them not Europeans.

That Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, which is an economic and political entity, doesn't mean it isn't a part of Europe or that the Swiss aren't Europeans.

You made a false statement. Own it.




👍

mtgoat666 - 12-24-2023 at 08:31 PM

Wealthy gringo pensioners in mexico got no flocking idea what life is like for average mexicans. You gringo pensioners will say “but i am not rich!” Actually, you are very, very wealthy in comparison to mexicans.

it’s not a bad thing be retired and comfortable in mexico. But it does not make you an expert in raising children in country stricken with violence…

RFClark - 12-24-2023 at 09:39 PM

Read much?

“The swiss and Finns are the exceptions that prove the rule. They have guns with almost no gun violence”!

There are between 25 - 30 million hunters in the US. There are about 8 million swiss citizens.

Most of the mass shootings in Europe involve illegal automatic weapons. Then there are the over 100 Million Europeans and Americans not including all the Russians and Ukrainians (currently approaching a million) killed by gun violence foisted on them by their governments inability to get along. Inability to get along for hundreds of years.

The US needs to and could do better, existing gun laws that go unenforced, criminals repeatedly released to offend again until they finally kill. Yes we could do better, but we could also do like Europe and do far worse!




[Edited on 12-25-2023 by RFClark]

surabi - 12-24-2023 at 11:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  


There are between 25 - 30 million hunters in the US. There are about 8 million swiss citizens.

[Edited on 12-25-2023 by RFClark]


Those numbers are meaningless as some kind of comparison. They have no context.

The US has a population of almost 340 million. There are 120.5 firearms in civilian possession per every 100 US residents.

The number of hunters in the US is 25- 30 million.
The number of farmers and ranchers (who usually also own guns to deal with predators) is 2.6 million.

There are over 400 million guns in the possession of US civilians, of which the 32.6 million people mentioned above have a legitimate and practical reason to own a gun. What do the other 367.4 million people need guns for?

And why don't the citizens of other countries, who are not hunters or ranchers or farmers think they need a gun?
Americans view guns as some kind of security blanket. It's absurd and dangerous.

I would much rather live in a country where there's an infintisimal chance that some bad guy with an illegal gun might shoot me, than live in a country where anyone with a case of road rage or who got freaked out that I wandered into their yard by mistake, is very likely to have a gun and to use it.




[Edited on 12-25-2023 by surabi]

Lee - 12-25-2023 at 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  


There are over 400 million guns in the possession of US civilians, of which the 32.6 million people mentioned above have a legitimate and practical reason to own a gun. What do the other 367.4 million people need guns for?

Why is this even a question.? Gun control means hitting your target.

And why don't the citizens of other countries, who are not hunters or ranchers or farmers think they need a gun?
Americans view guns as some kind of security blanket. It's absurd and dangerous.

People who aren't hunters and ranchers think they need a gun because they want one. It's not complicated.


I would much rather live in a country where there's an infintisimal chance that some bad guy with an illegal gun might shoot me, than live in a country where anyone with a case of road rage or who got freaked out that I wandered into their yard by mistake, is very likely to have a gun and to use it.

Stay in Canada. Don't come to the US. I'd rather live in the US and think someone (other than me) would be willing to step up to stop gun violence.

I carry most of the time and think the US needs to follow Texas gun law. Carry if you want to carry. An armed society is a polite society.

By the way, have a safe and Merry Christmas.

[Edited on 12-25-2023 by surabi]

RFClark - 12-25-2023 at 01:28 PM

Merry Christmas, have a safe one as well!

I’ll post a detailed but grim reply tomorrow.

Today for thought, some good news. 2023 is shaping up to be one of the lowest for US homiacides in the last 50 years. It’s down almost 13% from a high in 2020. (More here tomorrow).

Some not so good news. Homicides in Canada have increased each year since a low in 2013 and are almost double the 2013 rate today.

The “how it occurred” doesn’t really mater to those affected.

mtgoat666 - 12-25-2023 at 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Merry Christmas, have a safe one as
Today for thought, some good news. 2023 is shaping up to be one of the lowest for US homiacides in the last 50 years. It’s down almost 13% from a high in 2020. (More here tomorrow).


And stock market at record high! Thanks, Joe!

surabi - 12-25-2023 at 06:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee  



Stay in Canada. Don't come to the US.

An armed society is a polite society.


FYI I live in Mexico. And you couldn't pay me to go to the US.

And "a polite society"? :lol: As a society, Americans are some of the rudest, least polite people I've met. People in other countries who work in the hospitality sector generally hate dealing with American travelers. They are some of the most entitled, demanding and unadaptable people in the world. Like when I'm standing in a shop line-up in Mexico, and there's an American tourist at the counter, who doesn't even bother himself to use a translation app. Instead he repeats, more and more loudly to the shopgirl, who doesn't speak English, what he wants, in English, as if she is just stupid or deaf.

RFClark - 12-25-2023 at 09:48 PM

Goat,

They both have had the number 37 in common recently. Numerology for the masses. Go figure!

Then there is the number 40, also seen recently.

“ The number 40 is often described as unfortunate and fateful in ancient sources when it is a name value. The number contains a direct and unbalanced 4-8 conflict and can attract accidents and bad luck. It should, therefore, preferably not be used as a name or placed elsewhere in the numeroscope. In extreme imbalance, the number 40/4 involuntarily becomes a secluded hermit living on the fringes of society. It can be lost in its own reality, full of cynicism and bitterness, where it looks down on others. It can also attract bad karma, accidents, and tests of a biblical proportion. 40/4 in strong imbalance is also a number of mental afflictions, such as mental handicaps, autistic tendencies, and low IQ. One might also be susceptible to auto-immune diseases, paralysis, sclerosis, and Parkinsons disease.”

mtgoat666 - 12-25-2023 at 10:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Goat,

They both have had the number 37 in common recently. Numerology for the masses. Go figure!

Then there is the number 40, also seen recently.

“ The number 40 is often described as unfortunate and fateful in ancient sources when it is a name value. The number contains a direct and unbalanced 4-8 conflict and can attract accidents and bad luck. It should, therefore, preferably not be used as a name or placed elsewhere in the numeroscope. In extreme imbalance, the number 40/4 involuntarily becomes a secluded hermit living on the fringes of society. It can be lost in its own reality, full of cynicism and bitterness, where it looks down on others. It can also attract bad karma, accidents, and tests of a biblical proportion. 40/4 in strong imbalance is also a number of mental afflictions, such as mental handicaps, autistic tendencies, and low IQ. One might also be susceptible to auto-immune diseases, paralysis, sclerosis, and Parkinsons disease.”


Hey boomer, I got no idea what you are talking about. What drug are you on tonite? Does your wife know you posting nonsense on the internet?




[Edited on 12-26-2023 by mtgoat666]

RFClark - 12-25-2023 at 10:40 PM

Yes, and I have a wife. How about you?

stillnbaja - 12-25-2023 at 10:50 PM

thats some potent eggnog! :O

Lee - 12-26-2023 at 12:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
Quote: Originally posted by Lee  


Stay in Canada. Don't come to the US.

An armed society is a polite society.


FYI I live in Mexico. And you couldn't pay me to go to the US.

And "a polite society"? :lol: As a society, Americans are some of the rudest, least polite people I've met. People in other countries who work in the hospitality sector generally hate dealing with American travelers. They are some of the most entitled, demanding and unadaptable people in the world. Like when I'm standing in a shop line-up in Mexico, and there's an American tourist at the counter, who doesn't even bother himself to use a translation app. Instead he repeats, more and more loudly to the shopgirl, who doesn't speak English, what he wants, in English, as if she is just stupid or deaf.


You might be MX national, but you are a Canadian citizen, I'm guessing, so there is that.

Your generalizations are generally correct about entitled white people and their attitudes especially towards people of color. Can't speak for other countries even though you do.

Hopefully the white people being discussed don't carry.

Gun laws are in place. They need to be enforced.

RFClark - 12-26-2023 at 01:05 PM

Lee,

That’s the reason for hiding the who and the where. It allows shade slinging without much worry. Someone outed them a while back and the response was totally unhinged!

surabi - 12-26-2023 at 01:24 PM

Guess you haven't noticed that 95% of online forum posters use an online "handle". Including the ones you agree with.

RFClark - 12-26-2023 at 01:48 PM

Yes, and 100% of the shade slingers like you. I don’t as you know!

Don Pisto - 12-26-2023 at 06:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark  
Yes, and 100% of the shade slingers like you. I don’t as you know!


:lol: love it when RF learns a new catch phrase but honestly we're all still processing his biblical numerology (the magic of 37 and 40) that he was so kind to bless us with on christmas day .....you go Clarker!

RFClark - 12-26-2023 at 07:54 PM

DP,

Think RCP.com when considering the mystical significance of 37 & 40!

Also why I look forward to 2024.