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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
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Well,
After reading all of this stuff I have come to my personal conclusion.
I am now going to impose a limit for my customers of only 1 Gulf grouper per 4 day trip instead of 2. It is on that list and although it says it is
not endangered it is listed as a vuneralble species. The Leopoard grouper is also on the same list and has the same rating as the gulf grouper,
however after swimming in a school of 60 or more about a week ago I have a really hard time agreeing with the list of fish on those ones. There are
alot of fish on the vunerable fish list that dont seem very endangerd to me. But then again as it has been pointed out, I am not a scientest. I only
know what I see under the water in the area Im at. I can tell you that it is going to cause some peeed off customers when we get into a school of
fish and I tell them to only shoot one each even though they know that the limit is 5 per day. My self, I havent shot a Gulfy in over a year. I
usualy shoot a couple of nice Leopard groupers just to show people that I acutally put them on the fish so they cant tell me "this spot sucks, theres
no fish here...". It also helps when a customer scares all of his shots away and I can give him a couple of fillets for home.
I cant honestly say that I wont shoot them at all anymore. I cant lie about stuff just so everyone will think Im agreeable. Ill try and shoot more
snapper. I dont really like yellowtail so much, but I can start to chase some of them. To be honest I see more grouper than Yellowtail. Maybe its
just because Im spending more time looking for them.
No worries on anything Pascuale , I always knew you where just protecting a
great place and cool fish. People dont always agree on every point of every issue. Sorry about the momma joke too . It was acutally my momma that was migrating because I found her beached in a
cove just north of san ignacio and had to give her a tow back to deep water. I
told her, "Mom, you need to stay in deeper water!" she always embarasses me at the beach....
BUT...
I still think that spearfishing is the best and most enviornmentaly friendly way to harvest selective fish from the ocean.
I still think that there are alot of grouper in my area but Im gonna hold off on shooting any mexican limits untill I hear some fishologist from a
school tell me that a two fish per person limit is a sustainable harvest.(even though the current limit is 5).
I still think that there are alot of MAJOR reasons that the grouper population is other areas of baja have gotten smaller, and none of them are from
freediver spearfishermen.
I will be leaving for Gonzaga Bay soon again for another trip. On this trip we will be bringing Scott Cassell. Scott is a naturalist and extreme
conditions diver who is one of the only people to video the giant squid in the sea of cortez. He is going to be shooting only film with a sony high
definition camera on a re-breather rig. Scott dosent eat fish. He has agreed to come along and document below the water our expedition and the
reality of the undersea life at the Enchanted Islands. I am hoping to drop him into an area where I know big schools of Totuaba and Gulf grouper hang
out and let him get some good footage.
I will post a report when we get back, I cant guarantee that we wont shoot any Gulf Grouper but I can tell you that we will have only two people
hunting and wont shoot more than 2 in a 4 day period. Im sure we will see Leopard Grouper, and If I see a big one, hes gonna hit the bottom of my
cooler.
Maybe I will go on a hunt for the world record triggerfish....
GTB
http://www.spearfishingvideos.com
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I tip my sombrero to you I am quite impresssed with your(and others) willingness
to offer not only an olive branch but also give back in a way that is material. It must be the Baja feeling. It appears from your posts that you visit
and enjoy the prolific splendor that the "Sea" is offering up. A lucky soul indeed! You have shown a good example of ocean stewardship. Save the big
ones. Thanx, Corky aka Sharksbaja
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bajaden
Nomad
Posts: 496
Registered: 4-7-2005
Location: Ensenada
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Mood: vicarious
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Now that I have traded in my rifle for a fishing pole, and at this point in time Im a better hunter than a fisherman, considering I have never fished
in Baja except on a charter boat. I decided to apply the same rule to fishing that I used in hunting. I will never kill anything I won't eat, and I
will never fish for anything that will eat me. After reading about the fish in Baja and discovering that most have teeth, I would say that the
majority of fish have nothing to fear.
I have to admit that Im totaly ignorant of the mexican fishing regulations, and in time I'll learn. I don't know whats protected and whats not. I
suspect that there are a lot of people like me. I do care.... I also know that good intentions don't always bring good results. I remember when there
were few regulations on where you could hunt in California for deer and the seasons were long, and the deer were plentiful. Good intentioned people
came along and changed all that. I won't bore you with the details, but I watched the deer herd slowly dwindle down to the point it broke my heart to
shoot a deer for fear it might be the last one. When politicians make decisions on these kind of matters based on the influence of people with good
intentions but little knowledge the results can be disastrous.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Gonetobaja
Wow, I am impressed.
Most people involved in an argument like this just dig in their heels, stop considering what the other is saying, and the verbal abuse just escalates.
For you to actually listen and consider the other persons viewpoint and to actually be willing to change your business practices is really amazing. I
really admire you. To have the maturity to not see this as winning or losing - well, that's rare and admirable.
You and Ken may be right about spearfishing affecting the fish stocks less the angling. It was never about angling vs spearfishing for me.
There were a few statements I made that were probably best not said and I wish to apologize for them. When you're not facing the person sometimes you
allow yourself to say things that you wouldn't in real life.
I really avoid threads like this because it's rare that anything good comes from them. People involved remember the side you take, label you, and seem
to form like-minded groups that always support one another. Oh.. you're a DK supporter. Or, Oh... you belong to the spearfishing group.
A couple of years ago Ken Bondy published on the Amigos board a family outing written by his daughter Coleen that was probably the best thing I had
read on Baja. After reading that I decided that Ken was one of the 'good' guys. So I really didn't want to enter the argument on the opposite side and
potentially destroy my idea of things.
Well, I for one, am relieved and happy that this thread ended as well it did.
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daveB
Nomad
Posts: 244
Registered: 11-6-2003
Location: B.C. Canada
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Mood: wondering about Nomads!
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One of the saddest scenes I recall seeing in Mexico was the sight of a spearfisher on a nearly pristine coral beach marching out the water with a five
foot eel.
We had done our daily snorkle around the bay for a month and were always ecstatic when we saw that fellow. Now taken, killed for sport, we'd miss him.
Oh sure, from the mouth of his taker came the promise they would make a meal of him, not waste him. Great. What sort of trade-off was that? One meal
against depriving hundreds of exciting discoveries visiting swimmers would have upon sighting him.
Not only that, but any male Mexican watching this prancing gringo emerging with such a treasure, well, you've heard of a gold rush?
Next day you had to swim around the Mexicans' set nets.
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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
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Thanks guys,
I have to admit it took me all day to come up with the decision I made. I can say in honesty that this new grouper take limit will be actually put in
place on my trips.
I think the main thing is what sharksbaja said. If you really love (and live) in baja you really care about the area. After reading all of the posts
my first thoughts where to dig in and fight but after I realized that there might be something to the argument for less Gulf Grouper take I knew that
only an extreme marooon would turn a blind eye to the facts. I dont think that my limits will have much effect on changing things for Gulf Grouper
but it cant hurt.
Im sorry to hear about the eel getting taken. Eels get eaten in baja also. Everything gets eaten in baja including snails. I have never taken an
eel myself although I see them all of the time. I dont see any reason to shoot something just to say "Hey man Im tough I shot an eel!" Although I
have been bothered by them many times freeing snapper from caves.
One of the saddest things I have ever seen in baja was a pile of hammerhead shark heads about 10 feet around by the dump by my house, and a pile of
scallop shells about 6feet around on one of the islands. Or a seagull actually nesting in a washed up monofiliment net. I could go on but the point
is whenever the resources of the ocean are wasted it sucks.....
GTB
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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good on ya Dale
for a compromise. shows a higher esteem, how was your trip this past weekend? didn't see a report yet but always like to read 'em.
on june 18th weekend i will be using a singa poor sling to bag sheeps heads off isla santa ynez....can't wait.
ya all should read Jonathon Roland's baja back beat in this month's western outdoors mag....he tells it like it is......let the Mexican's work out
there own issues.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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Ken, remember
all the big bass and grouper photos Genaro used to have in the old bar chamber before they took all that stuff down? they set some ptretty mean
records out by isla Lorenzo,
used to meet a bunch of guys from Laguna Sea Sports who drove down for 3 weeks of that action.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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Wow, Gone to baja.
I had actually stopped reading the series of posts because I thought it was heading for the usual downward spiral as emotions kicked in.
Your response and conclusion are not only refreshing, but brightened my day a little. And your comment about your Mom embarrassing you at the beach
cracked me up.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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GTB, I also stumbled upon a pile of Hammerhead shark heads probably 4 ft high and 8 ft in diameter of juveniles 3-4 ft this year. A fresh pile, it was
in Lover's Cove south of Mulege. The point here.... lack of direction and education promotes the continued extermination of many species. Thank god it
hasn't happened(isn't happening) where you go. Hope you don't mind but I forwarded this thread to the Cousteau Foundation as an example of
our(non-citizen) approach and willingness to ease the burden on the seas. Thanks again, Sharks
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow
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capt. mike
| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
all the big bass and grouper photos Genaro used to have in the old bar chamber before they took all that stuff down? they set some ptretty mean
records out by isla Lorenzo,
used to meet a bunch of guys from Laguna Sea Sports who drove down for 3 weeks of that action. |
I do indeed. I also remember when you walked over to the small fisherman's cove (alongside the runway and then up over the hill) you would invariably
come across some huge gulf grouper skulls. Lots of big fish taken from those waters around San Francisquito. I think I hooked a few big groupers but
never managed to land one. We took our share of jurel though.
++Ken++
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
A couple of years ago Ken Bondy published on the Amigos board a family outing written by his daughter Coleen that was probably the best thing I had
read on Baja. After reading that I decided that Ken was one of the 'good' guys. So I really didn't want to enter the argument on the opposite side and
potentially destroy my idea of things.
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Skipjack Joe: I was moved by your comment, sent it on to Coleen who I know will be too. I appreciate your nice words very much. I really didn't
consider my post about the impact of spearfishing to be an "argument", it was just my opinion based on unscientific observations while diving (and
fishing) in California and Mexico for more than 30 years. I realize that others have different opinions and their opinions may be better supported
than mine. I sure agree, however, that these types of threads often degenerate quickly into personal attacks. I was extremely impressed and thankful
that gonetobaja defused that so gracefully here. Regards,
++Ken++
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Ken,
I remember the good ones and Coleen's really impressed me. After I wrote that I thought about it a little more and decided that perhaps women are just
better writers. They just seem to notice the little things that guys just don't pay attention to. And it's the little things that add up and make a
good big thing. Guys basically go from concentrating on one thing to concentrating on another thing. Women just take take it all in all the time. No
analysis, just write it as you see it.
skipjack
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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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Ken, and everyone...
Its great to know that people are happy with my decisions on my new Gulf Grouper limits.
My opinions are not supported by any scientefek faks. Thats why when faced with the research done and documented by others I am really left with two
choices.
Truth, or ignorance.....
I dont know the statistics but I know when I fire my speargun the only thing that gets affected is the fish Im aiming for and nothing else, hence my
scientefik resening fer speargun conservation.
Now most people who know me well know that I am not really smart enough to pull off lying. I also end up(because of my lack of skool) going straight
to the momma jokes when I get attacked (ie. I seen yer momma diving deep just north of De La Guardia with a 6ft squid in her jaws...). I have been
harvesting grouper in that area for a long time, the fish eating wont stop, however 1 Gulf grouper per customer I felt was not alot to ask of them. I
have already gotten some e-mails from customers who have trips booked later this summer. Most who read this thread told me that they understand my
reasoning, and agreed to the new take limit. Others said that I was bending over for the "PETA" types and I need to get a spine. This group then
cancled the september trip they had in favor of a trip with another guide in La Paz who would be more lax on shooting Gulf Grouper(If they find
em:lol. The way I look at it is that I may loose a few customers however this
type of personality is also the type that "knows it all", comes down with 6ft tuna guns to shoot snapper, and is the first one to complain about the
conditions, "is it always this windy" "is it always this hot" "why is the vis so bad, in cozumel it is 100ft" etc. This new take limit might be a
way of screening out the jerks before I end up in the middle of baja with em.
Leaving on the 12 with cameras and spearguns. Two shooters and two cameramen(Sony HI-def). Its gonna be some great footage.
The finished product should be in stores (sports chalet) by the fall.
Adios Nomads,
GTB
http://www.spearfishingvideos.com
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Bajaddict
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 12-6-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jrbaja
busybody gringos. If you have a problem with other peoples lives, why don't you try turning us "illegals" as you are assuming, into the authorities.
I love the way they deal with false accusations down here! Pendejos! |
"P-nche Gringos", "Chicken Coup
Groupers", "Pendajos", "Idiots", etc... ad naseum... Didn't anyone ever tell you not to sh*t where you live? I would be suprised and amazed if
someone didn't motion the Mexican authorities your way, if for no other reason than to get you to shut your hole. Maybe you will not enjoy it when
you are carted back up here in the bad ol' USA.... assuming that your status here is on the up and up as well.
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pangamadness
Nomad
Posts: 378
Registered: 9-22-2003
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Mood: Under H20
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Well put Bajaddict. The Mexican authorities will be there one day. It will be the day he looses one of his clients. Someone will try a little too
hard to get a Grouper and will pass out. Probably be some guy with 2 kids and one on the way who takes a last minute opportunity to go on a trip with
his buddies to see who can get the biggest fish. Or it will be a son showing off for his dad and tries a little too hard to get a big fish.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Here we go again
some new P-nche gringo took offense because the huarache fit. As far as my own back yard, I don't know what you are referring to.
As far as minding your own business, it would probably be a good idea.
As far as the authorities go, give it your best shot pendejo!
And, as far as living back up there, there are way too many people like you running around which means that back yard is already full enough of it!
Trying to prove something by bringing up old posts? That's what the chicken coup groupers are famous for **********!
[Edited on 6-27-2005 by BajaNomad]
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pascuale
Nomad
Posts: 224
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Somewhere South
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Mood: Lets fish!
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After meeting Jr in BajaSur, I dont think he'll have any problems from the authorities. He's on top of his game down there. As for GTB and the
spearfishing operation, we'll....a guy who can take criticism and turn it into something positive such as limiting his grouper harvesting to one fish
per trip, we'll I think a guy with charachter like that wont have too many problems anywhere he goes.
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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pangamadness
Well put Bajaddict. The Mexican authorities will be there one day. It will be the day he looses one of his clients. Someone will try a little too
hard to get a Grouper and will pass out. Probably be some guy with 2 kids and one on the way who takes a last minute opportunity to go on a trip with
his buddies to see who can get the biggest fish. Or it will be a son showing off for his dad and tries a little too hard to get a big fish.
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You are implying that I will eventually be responsible of the death of one of my customers and then the mexican authorities will be there to teach me
a lesson? The worst case possible with 2 kids and one on the way? You have some imagination. I dive safe and make my customers do the same. I am
responsible and take saftey seriously. If someone dies from an accident than I will feel awfull but I will know it will have nothing to do with me.
I am also a certified rescue diver for my customers saftey and carry a full med kit with a pony tank and regulator for use in case of such an
emergency.
I have had people asking around that they heard of a gringo working out of Puertecitos with no papers. The funny thing is that it was my mexican
friends that told me that the gavachos where asking alot of questions about me and they where wondering why after all of this time.
I dont know why people are so concerned, I bring nothing but work and good vibes to my area of baja. I provide for hotels and resturants, builders
and mechanics, stores and shops, all from my stream of tourists that I bring in and out.
BUT TO PUT TO REST ALL OF THESE ACCUSATIONS!!!!!!!!!
My Cedula De Identificacion Fiscal # is
RUCN800906K52 Folio C 4763009
Lancha Nombre "Sancha"
So any of you uh, "nice people" that seem to know so much about this kinda stuff can take this info and do your own research. And when you get your
paws on copies of my paperwork you can "djlsour up your oajfsasjfs..."
I wasnt going to put my info up because I feel that people are just jumping to conclusions about me and JR. I dont know why people automaticaly
assume that people are out to do "no good" and to "screw" the mexican government but there are alot of things I "dont know" 
Right on Pascuale, only 1 Gulfy on the last trip. I know im gonna run into you sooner or later.
By the way I am heading down on the 12th again with a cameraman and two customers (again) and will post another trip report.
People need to worry about having fun in Baja and getting their heartrate down to 50beats per minute. Its been proven by years of research(mine) that
pacifico tastes better when your heartrate is down.
Let the mexican authorities do their job and dont waste your time worring if some guy in baja has his paperwork straight, its just not worth your
time.....
GTB
http://www.spearfishingvideos.com
(check out our new trailer preview, needs quicktime)
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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I know why GTB
Because P-nche gringos just have to stick their noses in other peoples business as they don't have lives of their own!
As far as my information goes, I have it for anyone important enough to show it to.
But, as far as washing your FM3, DON'T !! I spent yesterday getting it replaced at the new immigration office here in Rosarito.
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