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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
Member Is Offline
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Excuse me... do you live here?
BajaRescue...and other posters here
Your last posting has insult to it. No thanks here?coming from me, to you!
Is this true (?):
Your masterful use the English vocabulary in your postings ?you are non Native of Baja? Mmmmm?
Your dependency on a paycheck comes from the town?s people? ?Who ever they may be? (Mexican, Canadian, States, and so on), don?t you work on their
homes and/or businesses that have raped land beneath? You do live in a house, apartment, or a room to let, that was once upon a time?. virgin land
that some Native used to hunt on? The transportation you use dripping it?s oil all over the pavements?only to be washed away to the Sea during the
rains. Oh?that un ? recycled garbage I saw out in the deserts?. was that part yours too? Yes.
I can go on with a 1000 pages of negative issues here that you (the human) causes in you little town. The masses will come. You are there before the
masses having done the damages you so ill speak of! It?s NOT only the sand dunes, Dude!
If you read some of my postings from the archives you will see that I have issues about the way some of the ?Newfoundland? is being exploited.
Leaching septic systems that drip human waste into the sub terrain Aqua system, over fishing, dumping trash in the desert and much more.
Back to what I was saying?.co operation with planning the town itself, infrastructure of the land, the politicians, and laws will bear fruit far more
than a protest. Look at the big picture. I do?in San Felipe!
[Edited on 6-3-2005 by yankeeirishman]
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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BajaRob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 722
Registered: 9-15-2003
Location: Bahia Santa Maria y Newport Or
Member Is Offline
Mood: Life is good
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Yankee, David & Jerry
Right on!!!!!!!! I have seen many areas where people moved into and then wanted to shut the door behind them. I have always had a problem with those
that desire to control property not owned by them. The shurefire remedy is for those people to put their money where their mouths are and buy the
property. Too simple??????????Rob
[Edited on 6-3-2005 by BajaRob]
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Acuity
Nomad
Posts: 195
Registered: 5-26-2005
Location: Comox, BC, and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Craving sleep!
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The discussion seems to be confusing increased development in the Baja (which most would agree is going to happen) with the specific issue here -
developing on the sand dunes that are part of the beach (and the very reason that the area is so inviting).
TS has and will continue to grow, and while we might not like all the changes that it brings, its inevitable. But there is plenty of space to grow
without ruining the environment.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by yankeeirishman
BajaRescue...and other posters here
You last posting has insult to it. No thanks here?coming from me, to you!
Is this true (?):
You masterful use the English vocabulary in your postings ?you are non Native of Baja? Mmmmm?
You dependency on a paycheck comes from the town?s people? ?Who ever they may be? (Mexican, Canadian, States, and so on), don?t you work on their
homes and/or businesses that have raped land beneath? You do live in a house, apartment, or a room to let, that was once upon a time?. virgin land
that some Native used to hunt on? The transportation you use dripping it?s oil all over the pavements?only to be washed away to the Sea during the
rains. Oh?that un ? recycled garbage I saw out in the deserts?. was that part yours too? Yes.
I can go on with a 1000 pages of negative issues here that you (the human) causes in you little town. The masses will come. You are there before the
masses having done the damages you so ill speak of! It?s NOT only the sand dunes, Dude!
If you read some of my postings from the archives you will see that I have issues about the way some of the ?Newfoundland? is being exploited.
Leaching septic systems that drip human waste into the sub terrain Aqua system, over fishing, dumping trash in the desert and much more.
Back to what I was saying?.co operation with planning the town itself, infrastructure of the land, the politicians, and laws will bear fruit far more
than a protest. Look at the big picture. I am?in San Felipe!
[Edited on 6-3-2005 by yankeeirishman] |
words well spoken yankeeirishman
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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BajaRescue
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 6-1-2005
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Undecided
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Insult? Sorry, none intended. I thought I was pointing out it's not just rich Gringos in Todos Santos against this particular development.
Yes, YankeeIrishman, I'm clearly a non-native as apparently most of the people on this board. And yes, you're absolutely right, my dependency comes
from the town's people. I can't do anything about what has gone on before but I can try to do something about what will happen. This is my town and I
care about what happens here. Hopefully, we all put something back for what we take. That's what good communities are all about.
And, yes, you're also right, simple protests won't do it. Unless the current Mexican laws are affirmed and reinforced, this will continue to happen.
I agree, seems like this thread got stuck on a "close the door" theme. Let me stress it one more time, I AM NOT against anyone moving to Baja, living
in Baja, playing in Baja, buying land in Baja, or building houses on it, as long as they respect the laws. I am against anyone building anywhere and
any way they want to, even if the local community doesn't want it (Gringos AND Mexicans).
[Edited on 6-3-2005 by BajaRescue]
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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BajaRescue you say If you can help in any way, please do. We don't have much time to go before SEMARNAP, The Mexican EPA, and put a stop to this. We
need volunteers to help with legal fees, circulating petitions, meetings, and getting the word out to others who can help...
do you want us to send you money or what??????
How long have you been a professional Protester in Mexico?
Are you Registered with the Mexican Hacienda so you can legally do this.
[Edited on 6-3-2005 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
Member Is Offline
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here's a way. (it was used against me one time!)
Okay okay....
Put on your Superman shirt and do this if you REALLY want to do a slam correctly to the developers down there...
How to Start a Community Action Group
Community Action Groups give people the opportunity to get together to share the thoughts of the common theme, planning the action, execution of such
plans. In your case?growth control would apply. It?s not going to be a cake walk for you?but here?s a plan of action you may want to take to save your
Sand Dunes (and other land values) down there.
Basic Steps for Starting a Community Action Group
1. Create a small poster/flyer
Poster/flyer should briefly describe a community Action Group for Planning and encourage interested participants. Neighborhood houses, community
centers and local gathering places are good spots to display your poster. Some people even advertise in local community papers to attract members.
Don't forget to include your name and contact number! Word of mouth is also an effective form of advertising. Tell all your friends and acquaintances
about your interest in forming a community group. Before long you'll have enough soldiers to get started! Be sure to invite the local Baja politician!
The business owner also!
2. Call a First Meeting
Once you have four or five interested people, call your first meeting. Don?t wait till you get 50 people showing interest?most wont show up! Host it
in your home or meet at a public place in the community. Most community centers or neighborhood houses will accommodate these types of meetings at no
cost. You may want to present the community facility with general information such as the single page - What is a community action group for (?). This
will help them understand what your group is trying to achieve and who knows, they may even be interested in playing a supportive role even after the
initial meeting.
3.
Now?you fight with a bite! And remenber to take compromises!
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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don't forget that people mysteriously vanish in Mexico for this type of thing.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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don't forget
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
don't forget that people mysteriously vanish in Mexico for this type of thing. |
Now that has some bite! It is odd how water doesn't flow the same direction in Mexico as it does in the U.S.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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chit does!
and Rescue, how long have you lived in Todos Santos? Or Mexico for that matter?
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
don't forget that people mysteriously vanish in Mexico for this type of thing. |
Yeah...in San Franciso too  We had an Club proposal on the CCSF back in
1998 and when the neighbors caught wind of it...we were hit with every damn department of the county/city with delays/demands. Compromised and buckos
later...we suceeded with a smaller version of the club. The day before our Grand opening, "NO Parking" signs were placed on Otis Street (our club
location)! So yes...I wish that too, people mysteriously vanish whom did these protests!
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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BajaRescue are you from Berkly Ca?
how long have you lived in Todos Santos?
did you see how beautiful Todos Santos was before the gringos started telling the Mexicans what to do?
oh by the way Welcome to the Baja Nomad forum.
[Edited on 6-3-2005 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
did you see how beautiful Todos Santos was before the gringos started telling the Mexicans what to do?
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And that works?
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BajaRescue
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 6-1-2005
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Undecided
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Hi Bruce,
You asked some questions about me. Sorry, I didn't think this issue was about me but I'll answer if it helps:
Q - How long have you been a professional Protester in Mexico?
A - Well, I didn't think of myself as a professional or a protester but I guess about 2 days ago I brought up this issue, so 2 days?
Q - Are you Registered with the Mexican Hacienda so you can legally do this.
A - No, didn't know I needed to register with anyone other than this Forum to express an opinion  Did I break a Mexican law? Sorry, I already told you how much I hate that in others. Where do I sign up?
Q - BajaRescue are you from Berkly Ca?
A - No, I grew up in Placerville. It's 100 miles East of Berkeley and 1,500 miles north of Todos Santos. Feels pretty far away now...
Are people from Berkeley banned from this Forum?
Q - how long have you lived in Todos Santos?
A - My 1st year, but feels like two. How long do I need to be here to earn an opinion?
Q - did you see how beautiful Todos Santos was before the gringos started telling the Mexicans what to do?
A - No, I thought it was the other way around? It's their country or am I wrong about this, too?
- oh by the way Welcome to the Baja Nomad forum.
A - Hey,thanks! And thanks for the haircut
And yankeeirishman, thank you for the tips. All good advice...
[Edited on 6-7-2005 by BajaRescue]
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bajaden
Nomad
Posts: 496
Registered: 4-7-2005
Location: Ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: vicarious
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Im not sure where to start. First, most people I know that are involved in spay and neuter are decent caring people, not elitist snobs. Having said
that I agree that Todo Santos is not what it used to be, nor is Cabo and Im sure that some time in the future Loreto will fall into that catagory. I
don't want this to happen, but all one can hope for is that it later than sooner. I don't think its people like me or most of you that destroy places
like baja. We all love it for what it is and want it to stay exactly the way it is. Its the people who see for what it could become that will destroy
it. Strangely enough some of these people love the place for the same reasons I do. They think they will help the economy, create jobs, give people a
better life. At least that what they convince themselves of. There is no answer except to enjoy it while you can and fight to preserve as much as you
can. By the way, theres something I have to get off my chest. I don't see Mexicans and Gringos, I just see people. We can all work together or fail
apart. I detest all racists. I have no use for marooons who want to blame their failure in life on the color of someone else's skin.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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I'm sure a few people might argue that Baja was ruined when the highway was paved past El Rosario. Seems pretty reasonable to me that the sand dunes
remain free from development.
As the world's population grows, so will Baja's...better get used to it.
Zac
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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After spending 30 years in what was to become the fashionable Flathead Valley in Montana, all these arguments are familiar.
Todos Santos...seems pretty prosperous for a small Mexican town, at least seems like there is more wealth than Loreto, Mulage, San Ignacio...so who is
it you want to help in your cause? Don't look here, we have our own issues. Do it, or don't do it, yourself. Frankly, I suspect there are more worthy
candidates for salvation in BCS.
Loreto area...so Mexico has a federal zone for public beach use, and constitutional protection from foreigners buying up the coastal property, yet
their own government creature, Fonatur, is promoting a plan to make all beach property save the small Loreto city beach exclusive foreign property.
With something reminiscent of apartheid, with the resulting Mexican workforce (from the mainland) concentrated in an urban area away from the
tourists. This seems like pretty poor planning and could create some ill will...we'll see. But there is a difference between the "I got mine now go
away" mentality and a position that perhaps some portions of high value property remain in the public domain or commons, such as federal, state or
munincipal parks?
The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay...Hey, as long as they confine such nonsense to Nopolo, let them do their thing. But some have suggested
here that this outfit has a "plan." Baloney. Real plans must realistically address things like water sources, sewage disposal, and worker housing.
They are bouncing around on all those issues, and haven't figured any of them out. No, what they have is not a plan, it's a sales pitch. Maybe a
pretty good one, too.
Well, I've done this stuff before and don't think I want to do any more. But if I did, rather than try and stop a specific development, especially one
where significant money has already been invested, I would try to get in front of development, identify a place worth preserving before development
money is invested, and get a park established, or a preserve, or buy development rights, while at the same time being mindful of, perhaps even
supportive of, efforts by others in the community to improve their own standard of living.
Now, I wonder...will there be sustainable bamboo at The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay?
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BajaRescue
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 6-1-2005
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Undecided
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| Quote: | Posted by BajaBoy
Seems pretty reasonable to me that the sand dunes remain free from development. |
Thanks, that's all I was trying to say (wish I had).
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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If all goes well
there will be sustainable bamboo growing in most all areas of Baja where employment is needed. It has already started and ranch land has been cleared
in a number of areas. We are now working on getting different species from the mainland planted.
What this means is that by growing bamboo, it creates jobs, they don't have to sell their land to yet more foreigners, and they can continue raising
good honest children who's main priority isn't money.
You know, kinda like most cultures.
And thanks for the mention Don.
[Edited on 6/4/2005 by jrbaja]
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Arthur
Nomad
Posts: 232
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: San Anselmo, CA
Member Is Offline
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We took care of him
Well, we sure showed him, didn't we? I'll bet he and his misguided Mexican friends will think twice about bringing their crazy ideas to this board
next time. Can you believe they thought they could change things, or make developers obey Mexican law? Don't they know it's too late to do anything
like that around here? And they didn't even ask us before they got started. Pathetic.
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