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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Capn Sharkey...I agree!
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Misunderstood
I don't believe it you must have misunderstood something.
Pam---I only report what I hear. I did not misunderstand anything. Perhaps I wasn't told everything. It still sounds like a carppy idea to me. As
far as the men on the street ---you are being a little hard on our fellow Loretanos. 75% aren't drunk on the weekend....there are some fine people in
Loreto---good family men and responsible citizens. In the old days I would go along with 75%, but not anymore. I will admit we have are share of
crazies out there----like Chileano (the guy always dressed up as a cowboy that dances in the street). By the way, those of you that have not gotten
over to Pams shop, need to stop in and say hello. She is like the number one flyfishing shop in Baja Sur. Also, her fish reports are very honest and
right on. You can count on them to be correct. Also, she make a damn fine expresso---so get by and check it out for yourself.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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Bio-swale's and wetlands work. They are in use right now in Washington State and other places and working fine. I know of one at a golf course on the
Olympic peninsula and have read about others in the state.
BUT, as Capn. Sharky said, they take a lot of pre-treatment and control. On a "per gallon" basis, for large operations they are more expensive than a
standard treatment plant, primarily because of the large land area required. It works at the golf course because they incorporated it into the course
and don't have a large population, just the golfers and staff.
There are some numbers that I could try to dig up that show how much pre-treatment is required and how many acres are needed per family unit.
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by turtleandtoad
BUT, as Capn. Sharky said, they take a lot of pre-treatment and control. |
Actually, I was the one posting about pretreatment requirements; Capn. Sharkey was quoting me.
You are right, this is a very costly way to treat sewage. Not only is it costly, it requires a lot of technology and monitoring. I think the
specific treatment questions need to be asked by anyone interested in Loreto Bay...personally, I don't think it is feasible for the kind of buildout
they are talking about.
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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OOPS, 
Sorry Elizabeth.
If I find that study, I'll post some of the numbers and a link to it. It was quite informative
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Aw, Sharkey that just ain't fair!
| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
Why don't they ship the black water up to Canada and treat it there? Why don't they just get out of Baja altogether. And take all their carp with
them. |
Where do you carp while you're here??
I have an idea, composting toilets! That's what we use in Mira Mar and la colonia. LOL
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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in a barrel so they can haul it back
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
With the exception of their women being in guad or TJ, sounds like a perfect description of over 75% of the Loretano men already here!! I know this
is a fact, not because I am married to one of them (mine's from ACA) but I employ them. |
The men who come to work at Loreto Bay are separated from their wives, girlfriends, children, extended family, and friends for long periods of time.
They would like to live at home,but they can't earn a living in many parts of Mexico. They are promised a good wage by the developer, and are often
not paid all they were promised. They are promised a place to live, which turns out to be a storefront with newspaper taped to the windows, shared by
20 men, with no furniture, no television, no kitchen. They sleep on the floor. They have no connection to the community they find themselves in.
They are nice men who have families they love and who love them but in this new "life" they might become angry, bored and bitter. Who is to keep them
from acting impulsively, and unwisely? No one here cares who they are, or what they do. Circumstances can change a person, and they might behave in
ways they wouldn't dream of at home.
And who can say that a proud Loretano might not do the same in another place?
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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Carp Depends...eliminate the "middle" man...
In order for the carp to eat and excrete all that crap, will we create a new sub-species....Carpus super-sphincter?:moon:
This whole conversation is a bunch of ca-ca de baca...
Capt. George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
Carp Depends...eliminate the "middle" man...
In order for the carp to eat and excrete all that crap, will we create a new sub-species....Carpus super-sphincter?:moon:
This whole conversation is a bunch of ca-ca de baca...
Capt. George |
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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relaying a message
Just back from Loreto... and a couple amigos who work for the govt. have told me that Loreto Bay has failed to follow through on their commitments in
several instances and that they (the officials) are frustrated with LB.
Also, I was told (by the same Mex. friends) that LB Co. has been selling lots that have NOT yet been released to them for selling (by FONATUR) yet.
Please don't jump down my throat... I don't care to argue philosophy or opinions re: LB.... I am simply sharing what I heard from a couple of friends
who work for the govt.
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3779
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"failed to follow through on their commitments" is a definite understatement. In Dec. 2004, LB announced their goal of 2000-2500 affordable homes
and a living wage for those who work at building LB and construction on affordable housing to start in 2005. Apparently, just more talk, no action.
Is the affordable housing "sustainable" or a future blight?
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bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
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Carpe diem! Pomp, that was priceless.
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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I haven't found the study yet; but I did find this site;
Living Machines
Check out the YMCA camp, it shows how complex they can be, even for a small operation.
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Phil C
Senior Nomad
Posts: 564
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: N. San Diego County/ Loreto Centro/Lopez Mateos
Member Is Offline
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I've seen some of the "housing" in Loreto for the LB workers. An empty store on Benito Juarez, and a house with a flophouse enviorment, or worse. No
kitchen and maybe a bathroom. The two I saw, looking from the doorway only, had 8 to 10 mats on a single room floor. No other furnishings. I don't
know who is paying for the housing, LB or the men themselves, but it's pretty bleak. I was at LB one day and saw Pancho, one of the guys that worked
on an addition to my house having lunch on the street and talked to him. He said he was getting 450 pesos per day. 100 more than he was makeing for
the contractor at my place. Two weeks later he was back in Loreto, short pay.
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Loreto Bay
Sharky. You forgot to mention that the "New Hospital" that Loreto Bay set aside $800,000.00 towards construction, is actually in construction. It is
located on the highway, near the abandoned offices. Lots of earth moving equipment. Had dinner about a week ago with one of the L.B. office workers,
and he said there are approx. 800 Mexican workers now on the job. Also, I heard that those who are buying houses today are being told that completion
would be about four years from now. Also of interest is that all the entry doors of the project are being installed with Motel type card locks.
I.E. Are they all to be in the rental pool? I also have a "gov't friend", and he hasn't mentioned anything about L.B. failing to "perform". I can
imagine that sometimes there must be communication breakdowns, but this project is "running right along". Contrary to your "I've got mine & to
hell with anyone else getting theirs", attitude. I'm sure you don't mean to come across so loudly, but it surely seems like it reading your comments.
I know where your coming from, Sharky. Having been born in Oregon, and having watched the last forty years of Californian's coming up in droves and
buying, and then yelling & screaming that we need to put a gate at the California border. And Oregon is growing. I love those little yellow
license plates that say, NATIVE OREGONIAN. Got to get one of those. Wonder if one that says, NATIVE LORETONIAN would sell down here?
[Edited on 2-9-2006 by Phil S]
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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Phil replied to Sharkey:
>>I also have a "gov't friend", and he hasn't mentioned anything about L.B. failing to "perform". I can imagine that sometimes there must be
communication breakdowns, but this project is "running right along". . . <<
I won't answer for Sharkey, however my friend in govt. is most definitely in the know - so a "communication breakdown" may be the case for your "govt.
friend" who "hasn't mentioned anything. . ."
The reason I didn't post his name and position is that it would simply be improper for me to do so.... That is his place if he chooses.
Has anyone else heard that LB Co. is selling property that has not been released to them by Fonatur for selling??
And what ever happened to the desalination project to "create more water than they use..." ? ? ?
BTW, I also saw the small ex-retail place on Juarez that was being used as "housing".
Before I left Sunday, I gave away a couple pairs of jeans and shoes to a couple of workers who were most appreciative. They're obviously just trying
to earn some money, live inexpensively, and are a bit out of place and wandering around on a Sunday afternoon...... need to remember the human
element in this too - and there is hopefuly still some dignity in work and supporting self and family....
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by djh
And what ever happened to the desalination project to "create more water than they use..." ? ? ?
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When they say "create more than they use" they do not figure the use that imported employees who live offsite use, or the use by others attracted by
the development, figured by Fonatur to number 10 people for each unit built. LB's contribution of their theoretical excess water and power will still
leave a deficit that the locals must somehow come up with.
Recently Loreto Bay people visited a ranch with abundant water in the mountains, and offered to purchase it "for a mountain retreat" site. With that
party was the mayor of Loreto, who can receive significant personal fees from such transactions.
Also, city officials have stated that they will increase efforts to collect overdue water bills, and begin metering water so as to charge higher rates
to force conservation, at least from those who will have difficulty paying the higher bills. No more inexpensive water. Perhaps less irrigation of
lots, and less watering of dusty streets and other types of "waste."
As far as I know, desalination is still an option in the future. My guess is it will take a combination of things to supply water needed for the large
size of LB and other planned developments: desalination, buying out mountain ranches and their water, and reducing munincipal use through higher
rates, metering and possibly rationing.
[Edited on 2-9-2006 by Don Alley]
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Phil from Oregon
This is not a case of I got mine and don't want you to get yours. I am not against growth that is controled. Loreto Bay has lied over and over. They
promised a desalinazation plant....not going to happen. Affordable housing???? Who are they kidding. The cheapest units have now gone over $200,000
and some are selling for over a million. Promises of time of completing are not coming to fruition. One couple that purchased a $2,000,000 home are
waiting over three years now and not a shovel of dirt has been turned on their property. You forgot to mention that you live in Nopolo and the area
was beginning to become blighted by lots unsold and unkept. As for houseing the workers, they are living like tramps in small houses with l0 to 20
workers sleeping together with (maybe) one toilet. I have personally seen them sleeping on the ground outside of motels and houses they have rented.
As for the hospital---I haven't seen it. But, who is it for? As for Oregon, I lived in Portland for a year in the 60's. I live in So. Calif. now and
cannot for the life of me understand why anybody would want to move there. It rains all the time and the beaches are so cold you can't swim there.
Also, the Governor is a child molestor and the Mayor of Portland is also under indictment for similiar charges. I don't know who your governor source
is----perhaps he picks up trash in Loreto. The fact is---any government source working with Fonatur will say only good things about Loreto Bay as
they were under pressure by the three ex-Presidents families that owned land down there to get it sold. There are other projects going on in Loreto
and I have no problems with them. The fact is, Loreto is a beautiful place and will become a mecca for those retiring in the next few years---and the
white flight out of Oregon. I hope you will not take this as a personal
attack as it is not intended as one. I know you to be a reasonable, friendly person. But, you must admit that Portland does have its problems. The
entire police department was under investigation for a while. Seems they beat up an old lady and she lost her glass eye in the fight. But, this is
all about Loreto and Loreto Bay. Fact is, they are not keeping their promises. I don't need a gov't source---I have eyes and can see what they are
doing.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64492
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Sounds terrible Sharkey...
Come to Baja if you can fit in to the local scene, not to change it to something you are used to in U.S. or Canada... The mere offering of $200,000 to
$2 million for a house in Baja is just destroying the market for regular folks (Mexicans and foreignors) to be able to live there.
Anyone who invests that kind of money on the word of some promoter practically deserves to lose it! If you want to live in Baja bad enough, learn
Spanish and deal with the people who live there... Listen to Skeet, Sharkey, La Tijereta (Kris), and other calm thinkers to understand the ins and
outs of being a foreignor living in Loreto... That's my opinion 
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